New Map: Space [Quenched]

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New Map: Space [Quenched]

Postby Jota on Tue Apr 25, 2006 7:34 pm

This is the new map I'm working on right now. Note that the graphics are still a bit crude: I fully intend to make it nicer-looking before it's done, but I wanted some feedback on the layout before I did anything that would be too difficult to change.

[url=http://grunk.org/risk/space1-large.jpg]Image
(Click for large version)[/url]

I thought I'd try to play around a bit with borders and connectivity with this one, not entirely unlike what I did with the Crossword map, but in a rather different way. And hopefully this one will appeal more to the folks who like to feel they're conquering real territory.

I'm interested in hearing both what people think about the general idea and what they think about the specifics of the map. Constructive criticism only, please.
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Postby supermarcol on Tue Apr 25, 2006 8:01 pm

I'd like to see more connection out of the warpgate and wormhole systems. The movement between continents is too dependent on them in my opinion, it allows holding almost all continents with 2 points only. Owning them also prevent players to attack each others. Maybe give no extra armies for them?
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Postby DublinDoogey on Tue Apr 25, 2006 9:24 pm

looks like it would be a good map, it's interesting that you've combined real astrology with mythical and literature astrology. I'm not thinking clear enough right now to really say much else, but looks good so far
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Postby Fieryo on Tue Apr 25, 2006 9:33 pm

ok, wow. I must say this map is very impressive. im not a big fan of the crossword map, but this one looks interesting to say the least. You have done a nice job of integrating new aspects (joint "countries") and making a very original map that i look forward to playing.
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Postby MrConfigT on Wed Apr 26, 2006 12:27 am

Good idea for a map, I stared making a star trek or starwars based map, but there are way too many systems to make a cool map.

What you've done though looks like it'll work.

Can't Wait.
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Postby bob the fig on Wed Apr 26, 2006 9:37 am

it doesn't look very connected, but i like the idea
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Postby KoolBak on Wed Apr 26, 2006 11:09 am

Jota..thanks for your hard work on the maps..I love the crossword...what about more real type pix for the planets? If you want, I have some cool pix I had been working with..pm me and I will email them to you for your assessment..with all the games I constantly have going and my kids and my biz, I cannot seem to make the time to finish anything worthy of posting....
"Gypsy told my fortune...she said that nothin showed...."

Neil Young....Like An Inca
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Postby Darkfire001 on Wed Apr 26, 2006 12:10 pm

The joint countries is really nifty.
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Postby Jota on Wed Apr 26, 2006 3:03 pm

supermarcol wrote:I'd like to see more connection out of the warpgate and wormhole systems.


That's interesting. This is actually the third version of the idea. The original concept was to just have one transit system (not both) and to make all inter-system travel pass through it. That notion passed fairly quickly, and the first full draft had six star systems, both the warp gates and the wormholes (like they are now) and only one pair of systems that were directly connected.

It wasn't until I revised it again to digitize it that I decided to drop one star system and add a second direct link, thinking that would make a good compromise between the remoteness of space and inter-continent connectivity -- it does mean that 80% of them now have direct connections to other star systems. I'm a little worried that if I move any further in that direction that it might take away from the whole warp gate gimmick.

The movement between continents is too dependent on them in my opinion, it allows holding almost all continents with 2 points only. Owning them also prevent players to attack each others. Maybe give no extra armies for them?


Giving high bonuses for holding the transit systems was actually partly intended to address the problem of star systems being too easy to hold: I wanted it to be worth other players' time and effort to try to control the gate/wormhole that adjacent to your system, so that you can't just sit on it consolidating your borders. Also, I did make sure that every continent bordered on at least two others, generally with multiple border countries at each.

Of course, just because I had reasons doesn't mean they were right: what's the general opinion on this?
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Postby AndyDufresne on Wed Apr 26, 2006 5:01 pm

I'm interested in the idea of the map. I always like different and unique maps. That said,

---I forsee a lot of continent sitting in this map. Even if you do control the wormhole or warp gate connected to your continent, I still forsee mostly border build ups with little attacking. I'm not sure how to alleviate this problem without adding something similar to more borders. In a large number of maps there is usually a lost continent. Sometimes two in certain maps. They just are too big to hold right away, so no one particularly goes for them. They mostly just become a battle ground for cards or limiting borders for your bonus continent. This map doesn't seem to have an "asia" of sorts. That necessarily isn't a bad thing. I know that exact copies of the original map wouldn't be entertaining to play. But the 'Lost Continent' usually spices up play. Hm, **shrugs**.

---The Legend obviously needs some work, but I'm sure that is coming later. I'd suggest though making the whole continent name correspond with the color on the map, rather than the first letter. And of course centering the wormhole and warp gate names on the legend would help improve the isual quality. Perhaps bolder in font would add some more visual appeal to it.



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Postby Marvaddin on Wed Apr 26, 2006 7:12 pm

Another map I will not play. It doesnt seem a map to me. Its imaginative, of course, but these simple, non-textured graphics, with the black background... ugly!! If you can use some Master of Orion or Ascendancy graphics, a greater image, with a good bakground... the interests would increase. Looks like an WAW map :lol: About the continents, more connections would be good, and not those great bonuses for the Worm / Warp that have only 3 and 4 territories. Make it a more traditional map, and I think I (and many others) will play.
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Postby Jota on Thu Apr 27, 2006 3:20 pm

AndyDufresne wrote:---I forsee a lot of continent sitting in this map. Even if you do control the wormhole or warp gate connected to your continent, I still forsee mostly border build ups with little attacking.


Hmm. There's a chance that the deep space stations might help alleviate that somewhat: it's impossible for one player to hold Narnia while another player sits on Arda, for example, since they each need to own Inkling Station to collect a continent bonus.

In a large number of maps there is usually a lost continent. Sometimes two in certain maps. They just are too big to hold right away, so no one particularly goes for them.


I'd been thinking that Sol might fill the role of "big, unwieldy continent" somewhat, with its eleven countries and five borders. But maybe it needs to go further.

This also brings up a serious issue I noticed yesterday, but I'll address that in a second post, to make it easier to read.
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Postby Blitzkreig on Thu Apr 27, 2006 3:26 pm

Marvaddin wrote:Another map I will not play. It doesnt seem a map to me. Its imaginative, of course, but these simple, non-textured graphics, with the black background... ugly!! If you can use some Master of Orion or Ascendancy graphics, a greater image, with a good bakground... the interests would increase. Looks like an WAW map :lol: About the continents, more connections would be good, and not those great bonuses for the Worm / Warp that have only 3 and 4 territories. Make it a more traditional map, and I think I (and many others) will play.


Yeah I'm not a big fan although don't get all up in my face about it
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Postby Jota on Thu Apr 27, 2006 3:37 pm

Currently, if you can take both Sol and the Warp Gate Network at the same time (difficult, but holding Sol will give you a decent position to attempt it from), then you'll be down to only three borders you need to defend in order to get a bonus of ten armies.

Now, maybe the difficulty of pulling that off justifies it. But probably not. One thing to do would be to reduce the Warp Gates and Wormholes to 4 and 3 respectively. Another thing -- and this would also address some of the other concerns people have had -- would be to add a deep space station between Valhalla and Sol (similar to Inkling Station and Tir na nog Station). That itself brings up two issues, though:

A) Adding another country would bring the map from 40 to 41 countries total. That'd be a slight shame, since 40's a cool number. But that's a minor point.

B) Adding a country there would make it hard to justify not increasing Sol's bonus to 6, since it'd now be a total of 12 countries with six borders. Increasing its bonus could arguably defeat the whole purpose of the exercise (since Sol + Warp Gates would still >= 10). Or maybe the extra border would make it all OK, because it'd make Sol that much harder to control in the first place.

Removing one of the countries from Sol would probably address both of those issues. If I went that route, it'd probably end up being either Mercury, Luna, or Pluto. But that'd make me sad: I'm kinda attached to Sol, what with it being my home and all. Any thoughts on the whole matter?
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Postby AndyDufresne on Thu Apr 27, 2006 5:49 pm

Hm well...


---Stick with 40 countries. Making the map 41 would be the ignorant thing to do, so I think you are right about not leaning that direction. Some sort of an attack route would help as you suggested (Perhaps a 'Blackhole' or something similar to keep with the space theme). And knocking down the wormholes and warp gates is probably the correct thing to do. Almost could make an argument to knock them ever further to 3 and 2, but probably 4 and 3 would work.


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