[GO] Fog Confirmation Round

[captainwalrus]

Let me rephrase this entire thing better:

What e_i_pi wants is to let everyone SEE where everyone else is before the game begins, so you can plan your strategy around it. You can also be ready for any surprise bonuses that may spring up.

Ummmm so let me get this straight...... What he is suggesting is a chance to view all the deployments prior to having the fog close over the battlefield??? And then decide whether or not you wish to play in that particular game????

This is absurd on so many different levels. First of all viewing a foggy with the fog lifted, even just in the first round, will totally defeat the purpose of playing fog. Secondly, and most important, viewing the deployments of a game and then deciding whether you wish to play it or not is completely ridiculous. Why would anyone ever accept a deployment that they deemed to be less than 100% to their advantage???

that is not what he is saying at all.
He is suggesting that prior to being allowed to take your turn there is a 24 hour period where people can see the whole board then after that 24 hours it is back to normal fog. It makers it so you know where they start, but you still have to try to track them through the fog after that. There is no option to not join the game if you don't like the drop.

[Kotaro]

Let me rephrase this entire thing better:

What e_i_pi wants is to let everyone SEE where everyone else is before the game begins, so you can plan your strategy around it. You can also be ready for any surprise bonuses that may spring up.

Which, of course, is doable if you play Sunny. Fog is meant to make it so you can't see them, hence the entire point of Fog.

and yet another derailing, flame post by the maker of the thread. Congratulations e_i_pi, for once again being unable to not troll/flame in your own thread.

Fail poster is fail.

[the.killing.44]

Let me rephrase this entire thing better:

What e_i_pi wants is to let everyone SEE where everyone else is before the game begins, so you can plan your strategy around it. You can also be ready for any surprise bonuses that may spring up.

Which, of course, is doable if you play Sunny. Fog is meant to make it so you can't see them, hence the entire point of Fog.

and yet another derailing, flame post by the maker of the thread. Congratulations e_i_pi, for once again being unable to not troll/flame in your own thread.

Fail poster is fail.

Eum, no. There is a strategy that in a tourney game, private game—any game to which you are invited or have a reservation or password—you wait until both teammates are on, your opponents have gone off, and you take the turn and play. This disallows the opposing team(s) to see the initial drop and where they were, and if the team is good enough to play like this, they leave the board as 3's, leaving the opposing team(s) wondering what was taken.

It's cheap, and this would be a way to combat it. So I like the suggestion, maybe as an option. And I don't get how people read this to see that you have the option to drop: YOU ARE STUCK IN THE GAME NO MATTER WHAT. THE ONLY THING THE CONFIRM BUTTON DOES IS LET THE GAME ENGINE KNOW YOU ARE THERE.

[MudPuppy]

This is an excellent suggestion. It's ridiculous to be able to lose regions before taking your initial turn without first getting the intel from those regions, including where your troops were when they got killed. Everyone should have the option of looking at the foggy board before the first move is made to maintain a more equitable start to the game. A confirmation round, preferably in freestyle format (i.e., you don't have to confirm in play order for sequential games), would be a very welcome addition to foggy games.

[e_i_pi]

and you have adjusted your original post since I pointed out the flaw in your suggestion

Because I stated that as a possible extension. In retrospect, it probably wasn't a great idea, so rather than have the thread derailed in usual fashion by people carrying on about something irrelevant, I removed it. Here's some rolle eyes back at ya

we dont need to confirm we want to play fog anymore than we need to confirm any other setting. actually you are taking the fun out of the fog option with your suggestion and reducing the attacker risk and changing the dynamics of the game negatively

It isn't confirmation to play fog, nor is it changing fog. It is allowing the players a 24 hour viewing period so they can see where THEIR territories are prior to starting the game.

Ummmm so let me get this straight...... What he is suggesting is a chance to view all the deployments prior to having the fog close over the battlefield???

No, I am suugesting that you should be able to see your OWN territories before the game starts.

And then decide whether or not you wish to play in that particular game????

No, not at all, you're making that up. The "confirm" would simply be there to speed up the 24 hour period - if everyone has seen their initial drop in the first 24 hours, why should everyone have to wait the full 24 hours. If it's a 1v1, and both players see their drop 5 minutes after the game fills up, what's the point in waiting another 23h55m?

He is suggesting that prior to being allowed to take your turn there is a 24 hour period where people can see the whole board then after that 24 hours it is back to normal fog.

Not quite. There would be no Sunny period at the start, simply a viewing period to see your own territories before they are taken off you.

--snip--

You don't like the thread, go elsewhere.

It's cheap, and this would be a way to combat it. So I like the suggestion, maybe as an option. And I don't get how people read this to see that you have the option to drop: YOU ARE STUCK IN THE GAME NO MATTER WHAT. THE ONLY THING THE CONFIRM BUTTON DOES IS LET THE GAME ENGINE KNOW YOU ARE THERE.

Finally, someone who gets it. Magical chocolate cakes are in the post as we speak.

This is an excellent suggestion. It's ridiculous to be able to lose regions before taking your initial turn without first getting the intel from those regions, including where your troops were when they got killed. Everyone should have the option of looking at the foggy board before the first move is made to maintain a more equitable start to the game. A confirmation round, preferably in freestyle format (i.e., you don't have to confirm in play order for sequential games), would be a very welcome addition to foggy games.

Ah, two people who get it. Cupcakes for you too MP.

The naysayers of the thread should read what these guys posted and try to understand a little of what I mean... it's pretty simple...

A 24 hour period before the game starts where you can see your own territories. You can't drop the game, you can't see anyone elses territories, you just get to see your own before they're taken off you, as once the game starts every territory shows up as '?' in the game log.

[MeDeFe]

Ummmm so let me get this straight......

Good idea.

What he is suggesting is a chance to view all the deployments prior to having the fog close over the battlefield???

Correct.

And then decide whether or not you wish to play in that particular game????

Not correct.

[MudPuppy]

At least with the new manual troop placement setting we now effectively have a confirmation round to see the map before fighting starts on foggy days. Now if only something similar would be implemented for automatic fog games.

[e_i_pi]

At least with the new manual troop placement setting we now effectively have a confirmation round to see the map before fighting starts on foggy days. Now if only something similar would be implemented for automatic fog games.

Exactly. It would be nice if a mod would pop in here and have a look. It's simply a matter of activating confirmation round for Fog of War games. Just one 24 hour period before the game starts to allow people to see their deployments

[ViperOverLord]

Round 1 Ready Button (For Fog Games)

Concise description:

A Round 1 Ready Button - Before any turns can be played, both players have 24 hours (5 minute speed) to view the map and press the ready button, indicating that they have seen the map and are ready for the game to start.

Specifics/Details:

The description really states the 'specifics.' I think that the ready button will just create more fairness and even players that are (extra) 'courteous' and give x amount of hours (12 is a popular number) are burdened by not being able to use the 'jump to the next game' option. And often I'll try to give the 12 hours and about hour 4 or 5 I'll forget and force of habit just press begin turn and even despite my good intentions, my opponent often will not get the chance to see the map.

There is a lot of walling/pm'ing before/during games to make sure that 'views' have occurred. The 'Ready Button' would eliminate all of that hassle.

Obviously the ready button would not be necessary for sunny games. Although, if to be implemented the tech team needed to institute it for all games and not just fog games then I still think it'd be a worthwhile tool. Of course with my limited technical knowledge, I would speculate that this could easily be applied just to fog games.

How this will benefit the site and/or other comments:

• Efficient Fog play: Always getting a look at starting position & elimination of time spent communicating about 'views.'
• Players do not get upset when they play a game and never got to see the map before the opponent took his/her turn.
• Players will be more inclined to join games sooner (rather than later) w/o the existing reservations of ensuring a view of the board.
• Absolute Fairness and good will is automatically ensured.
• Tournament games began sooner. Often opponents are waiting each other out (especially in the later stages of tournaments), if not in the hopes of gaining an unfair advantage than at least for the desire that he/she gets a 'fair' look at the board. And obviously when these tactics are used, players create needless responsibilities for themselves. And when that player forgets about his 'responsibility' than often a tournament organizer is forced to resend an invitation (or forfeit a player).

[QoH]

I would agree entirely... But some sort of notification would be needed to tell the player, since I normally only look at team games and the ones where I'm able to take a turn. I would probably miss it in the queue...

[ViperOverLord]

I would agree entirely... But some sort of notification would be needed to tell the player, since I normally only look at team games and the ones where I'm able to take a turn. I would probably miss it in the queue...

Every player would have to hit the round 1 ready button (24 hour max) before a game would begin. There would be no need for notifications. It's the same game style with the exception of the 'view' ensured for all players. 24 hours is your notification allotment basically. After that it'd be just like any other missed turn.

[phantomzero]

Great suggestion. Makes fog games fair. With this suggestion it doesn't put the play who is going second even further behind.

[ViperOverLord]

Great suggestion. Makes fog games fair. With this suggestion it doesn't put the play who is going second even further behind.

Yea, except I would change it to a 'Round 0 Ready Button.' Since it is not really a round and that way it would keep any outside analysis of sunny vs. foggy round measures on par.

[rdsrds2120]

Hmm...this sure would cease disputes.

-rd

[SirSebstar]

on the other hand, how can this affect freestyle games and will this not just cause more delay when players deadbeat?
Also, this setting shold not be allowed for nr's. for obvious reasons...

other then that, yea i can see its use

[ViperOverLord]

on the other hand, how can this affect freestyle games and will this not just cause more delay when players deadbeat?
Also, this setting shold not be allowed for nr's. for obvious reasons...

other then that, yea i can see its use

Deadbeating would cost a player time whether it was standard or freestyle. But it's a small price to pay to eliminate an otherwise huge headache.

[ViperOverLord]

While I'm thinking about it - There are a significant segment of players that only log in once per day. The idea of waiting 12 hours for a player to look at a map is often an undue burden. It is also often a burden that he/she cannot facilitate.

[blakebowling]

Again, this is one of those things I only see practical on a speed setting.

[ViperOverLord]

Again, this is one of those things I only see practical on a speed setting.

I don't see how this is not practical? And I don't know why it would be practical for speed and not for the 24-hour setting.

[kjg21]

Concise description:
Add an "Activate Game" button once all players have joined a Fog game. The player/team who gets to start the game would not be able to do so until the other player/team has had a chance to view the drop and clicks the "Activate Game" button.

Specifics/Details:
1) I would propose a 12 hour time limit for this period.
2) The "Activate Game" button could exist where the "Begin Turn" currently does.
3) The "Waiting for Opponent to Begin" icon already exists and would work perfectly.

How this will benefit the site and/or other comments:
1) It would eliminate any confusion (during tournaments especially) as to when the "Fog Rule" is in effect.
2) It would eliminate the need for people to run down the invitation time in an attempt to be the last to join.
3) It would prevent the people who are running down the invitation time and then forget to join from missing the invitation.

One drawback is that certain maps don't benefit from the Fog Rule (ie. Feudal War, Clandemonium, etc.). I'm not sure if the button could be selective in these situation. Ideas are welcome!

-kjg21-

[greenoaks]

i don't play with the fog rule and have no use for this. i feel all things even out in the end and am not interested in my turns being delayed because the other side hasn't seen the drop.

[chapcrap]

i don't play with the fog rule and have no use for this. i feel all things even out in the end and am not interested in my turns being delayed because the other side hasn't seen the drop.

This is how I feel mostly. But, I don't have a huge problem with the suggestion. I just think people make too big a deal of it in general.

[agentcom]

I agree with this suggestion. I think it's a great way of solving the "fog problem" using (mostly) things that are already available on the site. My one question would be how this would affect manual troop deployments. Currently the deploy phase is "Round 1" (which I don't really like). In a perfect world, I'd like to see manual deployment and "Activation" happen in Round 0. But even if that is not addressed, I would favor this just to take care of 95% of the fog problems (i.e. every game except manual deployment).

As to the comments above: I don't think this is overblown. Even if there are just a couple games out of 100 in which this makes a difference, it still may make a difference to high ranked players that depend on a certain number of wins to keep their ranks. In most games, the dice and drop will matter more than the ability to see a couple extra territs. But there are quite a few games, especially on big maps, where an opponent can block you from seeing a critical territory in that first turn.

[IanG7]

I agree with this idea as well. I find it very classless when opponents join a game and start right away and I rate them accordingly. Many times you can figure out what happened, sure, but there are other times when that is impossible and this would address that.
You've already got the start, show some sportsmanship!

[NoSurvivors]

Although I dont play useing the fog rule because not too many people I have played ever use it (i learned this rule against a really nice guy who was upset that i took my turn, about a month ago), I wouldn't mind seeing this happen. Like the posters above said, eliminates confusion.

-NoS