Discussion: Recruiting, etc.

[Shannon Apple]

If mid tier clans players think one person could possibly pull all the strings in a war like that (for either side) they are batshit crazy.

Because the abuse sitting case against TOFU and S&M a few years back didn't happen ? or it wasn't true ?

I've been reading this thread without commenting for a while, and I've seen many coming here saying to Vid that he was so wrong to think that a top clan was just a few very good players giving orders to everyone.

Of course, I don't believe it is the case, but at some point people made this opinion based on some facts as well.

In the topic about best clans ever, I've seen people coming from top-ranked clan saying it was the case for another clan ( basically this clan was good because one player was doing most of the job, once he was gone that clan was crap). Even member of top clans are assuming so...

Also, the TOP sitting abuse case that was made by josko.ri during the previous CL: josko was basically saying what Vid said when he was accusing TOP.
That they purposely let the clock run out so that the better player could play the move. Why ? because there is one leader and people just following around. ( and TOP use the line of defense that you've been using here, namely; everyone is just as experienced that's just stupid to think they'd let the clock run out to have a better player playing the turn).

In all team games, there has to be a leader, always.

Of course based on that, there is then a small line between the leader just making everything and the other just being followers.
I mean sometimes it happens just because the leader is right and you have nothing else to add but actually you would have come with the same idea. And sometimes it happens because the other players are just followers. But I wouldn't be able to tell the difference by just reading the chat. Can't expect outsider to make it.

Also I think for many maps, one very good leader and 3 followers ( thinking quad) can be just as good as a team of 4 very good players. The advantage of 4 good players have already been mentioned and I agree with have been said, but for many maps and situation it won't matter as much as the dice will so the team with one good player, as long as he is there all the time to give input on time, will do just as good as the other team I think at least 9 times out of 10.
Like let's say you play mogul trench for those who knows, really I could play it blind. There isn't so many unexpected situation that can happen, you only need one player.

And btw I disagree with that quoted comment. A leader is not always necessary. We don't always have one in the team game I play, depends on the map and the experience of the partners mainly.

I think you and others read way too much into that one line to be honest. A "leader" doesn't have to be calling all the shots on everyone's move. Most games I play in, everyone is making suggestions on what they are going to do and giving advice to their teammates etc. Or at least that's how it should be. In some cases, I've just assumed leadership after studying the initial deploy and coming up with a plan. Or someone else has assumed leadership since they came up with the initial strategy that everyone agreed with. That's not dictating to followers, it's just keeping a certain focus while still letting everyone discuss each move and come up with the best solution together. Depending on the outcome, that strategy might change later, but still, think it's important to have some sort of loose idea of where it's heading. I usually find that naturally, someone falls into that leader-ish role.

Sure, if you are in a game with 4 people who know each other extremely well, have played multiple games together on a particular map and can stay on focus 100% of the time without the need for a "leader" to keep track of things, then fair play. This rarely happens when people are put together to fill games. XD.

Anyway, just saying that you and others have taken the word leader and used it in a very wrong way to mean Master and followers. That's not at all what it means. Sure, that happens sometimes if it's a really weird map, but not the norm.

So I guess we'll say that a "leader" of some kind is required for MOST games then, unless you're very comfortable with your particular team.

[rockfist]

I played a game with josko, CoF, and rousseau72, none of us were very focused on the game. Setting aside your thoughts about my play and whether I belong in that line-up those three should be 90% favorites to win any team game...yet no common strategy and the result was a loss.

You need someone to make the 50-50 calls and lay out a general strategy (a leader) to do well.

[Vid_FISO]

I enjoy the team play (would enjoy it more if there weren't so many missed moves and those ignoring chat to do their own thing),

This right here is the reason that some of the lower tier clans don't reach the big game. They keep players like this around. The clans up there in the top 5 probably boot them out if they start acting this way and don't improve. Those type of people are the ones that run the good players off. It's kinda important not to let them join in the first place, then you don't have that dilemma of getting to know and like them. If you're anything like me, I'd find it impossible to kick them unless they were horrible people. lol.[/quote]

I’ve had to make the call to “work people out.” We have many good friendships within TOFU, but at the end of the day TOFU exists to win. It’s not fun making that choice, yet it’s necessary for the team. There are great players that we need to keep reasonably happy by not teaming them with careless players or letting careless players cause losses.

This is where our perspectives differ radically and what has becoming ingrained in me has resulted in this thread.

FISO was an atypical clan for CC, a group of 20+ joined within a few weeks of each other, the clan created a few months later with the only requirement being that you were a member of our originating forum. Last night I had a read through the threads from 7 years ago that led us here, great memories and good fun, a new adventure for us. Some stayed, some only lasted a few games, backs being slapped as we ventured out into CC and as each new rank was reached, strong showings in tourneys, followed by wins, sometimes as individuals sometimes as teams. We have always been inclusive rather than exclusive, if you wanted to play then you got games, as simple as that.

It was a bit of a surprise when the first 'outsider' applied to join the clan, but we took him in and he was a good fit. Players come and go for a variety of reasons, only 6 of the 28 from our forum now remain as active players that I'm aware of. We merged with Splinter Cell, a clan with a similar mentality, a group of players that wanted to play organised team games without massive hassle and FIASCO came into being. We have what many clans don't appear to have, a good number willing to play a part in the admin side of things, one person isn't stretched to the limit, if 2/3/4 aren't able to run a war/ comp there are several others that will and if someone runs into difficulties then someone else will step in.

When the FISO clan was formed CC activity had just dropped below the 16k mark, less than 7 years later and it is now down to around 5k. Clans are constantly folding/ merging/ being absorbed and rebranded, but the numbers are falling. A year or two back I went through every clan's membership, generally a third of each roster was inactive, I guess it's still about the same, we have one inactive due to serious illness and a few that are missing quite a few moves lately for various reasons (some I know, some I don't) following a cull of a dozen that had been inactive for over a year (some a lot longer). CC is dying a slow death, 'working out' active players isn't going to help that, how many times have you read 'if it wasn't for the clan then I'd be gone from CC'? Hoarding players, driving others out and killing competition isn't going to make the site any more active is it?

Those at the top, whether it be as individuals or as a group should have a responsibility to those below them, I understand the drive to win, to be the best, but when there's no-one else left, what's it worth?

[Caymanmew]

I enjoy the team play (would enjoy it more if there weren't so many missed moves and those ignoring chat to do their own thing),

This right here is the reason that some of the lower tier clans don't reach the big game. They keep players like this around. The clans up there in the top 5 probably boot them out if they start acting this way and don't improve. Those type of people are the ones that run the good players off. It's kinda important not to let them join in the first place, then you don't have that dilemma of getting to know and like them. If you're anything like me, I'd find it impossible to kick them unless they were horrible people. lol.

I’ve had to make the call to “work people out.” We have many good friendships within TOFU, but at the end of the day TOFU exists to win. It’s not fun making that choice, yet it’s necessary for the team. There are great players that we need to keep reasonably happy by not teaming them with careless players or letting careless players cause losses.

This is where our perspectives differ radically and what has becoming ingrained in me has resulted in this thread.

FISO was an atypical clan for CC, a group of 20+ joined within a few weeks of each other, the clan created a few months later with the only requirement being that you were a member of our originating forum. Last night I had a read through the threads from 7 years ago that led us here, great memories and good fun, a new adventure for us. Some stayed, some only lasted a few games, backs being slapped as we ventured out into CC and as each new rank was reached, strong showings in tourneys, followed by wins, sometimes as individuals sometimes as teams. We have always been inclusive rather than exclusive, if you wanted to play then you got games, as simple as that.

It was a bit of a surprise when the first 'outsider' applied to join the clan, but we took him in and he was a good fit. Players come and go for a variety of reasons, only 6 of the 28 from our forum now remain as active players that I'm aware of. We merged with Splinter Cell, a clan with a similar mentality, a group of players that wanted to play organised team games without massive hassle and FIASCO came into being. We have what many clans don't appear to have, a good number willing to play a part in the admin side of things, one person isn't stretched to the limit, if 2/3/4 aren't able to run a war/ comp there are several others that will and if someone runs into difficulties then someone else will step in.

When the FISO clan was formed CC activity had just dropped below the 16k mark, less than 7 years later and it is now down to around 5k. Clans are constantly folding/ merging/ being absorbed and rebranded, but the numbers are falling. A year or two back I went through every clan's membership, generally a third of each roster was inactive, I guess it's still about the same, we have one inactive due to serious illness and a few that are missing quite a few moves lately for various reasons (some I know, some I don't) following a cull of a dozen that had been inactive for over a year (some a lot longer). CC is dying a slow death, 'working out' active players isn't going to help that, how many times have you read 'if it wasn't for the clan then I'd be gone from CC'? Hoarding players, driving others out and killing competition isn't going to make the site any more active is it?

Those at the top, whether it be as individuals or as a group should have a responsibility to those below them, I understand the drive to win, to be the best, but when there's no-one else left, what's it worth?

Perhaps the drive is not just being the best but playing with the best. Truly great players (in any sport or team game) would be frustrated playing with inferior teammates who wont listen or learn. Taking the time to come up with a plan only to have the next guy in line ignore it completely and do some bone headed move... so so frustrating.

Great players want to play with people who can understand what they say and see what they see. Where is the fun in being a level above everyone you play with. Even if they do whatever you say if they never contribute ideas or strategy's you might as well be playing poly.

[iAmCaffeine]

I enjoy the team play (would enjoy it more if there weren't so many missed moves and those ignoring chat to do their own thing),

This right here is the reason that some of the lower tier clans don't reach the big game. They keep players like this around. The clans up there in the top 5 probably boot them out if they start acting this way and don't improve. Those type of people are the ones that run the good players off. It's kinda important not to let them join in the first place, then you don't have that dilemma of getting to know and like them. If you're anything like me, I'd find it impossible to kick them unless they were horrible people. lol.

I’ve had to make the call to “work people out.” We have many good friendships within TOFU, but at the end of the day TOFU exists to win. It’s not fun making that choice, yet it’s necessary for the team. There are great players that we need to keep reasonably happy by not teaming them with careless players or letting careless players cause losses.

This is where our perspectives differ radically and what has becoming ingrained in me has resulted in this thread.

FISO was an atypical clan for CC, a group of 20+ joined within a few weeks of each other, the clan created a few months later with the only requirement being that you were a member of our originating forum. Last night I had a read through the threads from 7 years ago that led us here, great memories and good fun, a new adventure for us. Some stayed, some only lasted a few games, backs being slapped as we ventured out into CC and as each new rank was reached, strong showings in tourneys, followed by wins, sometimes as individuals sometimes as teams. We have always been inclusive rather than exclusive, if you wanted to play then you got games, as simple as that.

It was a bit of a surprise when the first 'outsider' applied to join the clan, but we took him in and he was a good fit. Players come and go for a variety of reasons, only 6 of the 28 from our forum now remain as active players that I'm aware of. We merged with Splinter Cell, a clan with a similar mentality, a group of players that wanted to play organised team games without massive hassle and FIASCO came into being. We have what many clans don't appear to have, a good number willing to play a part in the admin side of things, one person isn't stretched to the limit, if 2/3/4 aren't able to run a war/ comp there are several others that will and if someone runs into difficulties then someone else will step in.

When the FISO clan was formed CC activity had just dropped below the 16k mark, less than 7 years later and it is now down to around 5k. Clans are constantly folding/ merging/ being absorbed and rebranded, but the numbers are falling. A year or two back I went through every clan's membership, generally a third of each roster was inactive, I guess it's still about the same, we have one inactive due to serious illness and a few that are missing quite a few moves lately for various reasons (some I know, some I don't) following a cull of a dozen that had been inactive for over a year (some a lot longer). CC is dying a slow death, 'working out' active players isn't going to help that, how many times have you read 'if it wasn't for the clan then I'd be gone from CC'? Hoarding players, driving others out and killing competition isn't going to make the site any more active is it?

Those at the top, whether it be as individuals or as a group should have a responsibility to those below them, I understand the drive to win, to be the best, but when there's no-one else left, what's it worth?[/quote]
The people at the top provide a competition and a goal for others to strive to. What are you suggesting their responsibility is?

[Shannon Apple]

CC is dying a slow death, 'working out' active players isn't going to help that, how many times have you read 'if it wasn't for the clan then I'd be gone from CC'? Hoarding players, driving others out and killing competition isn't going to make the site any more active is it?

Those at the top, whether it be as individuals or as a group should have a responsibility to those below them, I understand the drive to win, to be the best, but when there's no-one else left, what's it worth?

Who the hell is hoarding players? We are not objects, we are individuals with minds of our own and we know at what kind of level we want to play. Do I want to play in a clan whose players miss turns? No. Missing turns is disrespecting your teammates unless you've got a damn good reason for it.

I'm not saying that the top clans don't have problems with these things. We lost a recent war because of some carelessness/missed turns. That's when "the talk" happens. "Shape up, people." They try harder and win next time. It's about respect. If you're in a top clan, you respect your fellow clanmates by actually discussing and taking your turns. That's not for everyone. I do not for a second see how that would drive people out of the game. There are different types of clans to suit everyone.

But the hoarding? NO. Just No. My clan S&M has 39 players on the roster. 20-25 of those are actually active. When I checked a recently played CC war, 21 people played. The inactive have 0/0 next to their names for no games played/won. I am currently one of those. I do not play because I have personal stuff going on and I'd only possibly lose games for my team. They would let me play, but I don't want to let down my teammates. I respect them enough to take a back seat for now. Looking at your current war, you have more active players than we do.

You can go down through the list and see who is active right now in any clan. I WANT to be in my clan and I don't want to join yours or anyone else, that does not mean that I am being hoarded by my current clan.

I can't see what responsibility we should have to you. We are playing a game and enjoying the game. In this thread, we've basically explained to you how a top clan operates. You might not like it because you're not on the inside to witness it, but to suggest that we are ruining the game for lower clans by simply being better than them is ludicrous. There are top football teams and there are lower league teams. Whose fault is it that those teams are lower league?

Perhaps the drive is not just being the best but playing with the best. Truly great players (in any sport or team game) would be frustrated playing with inferior teammates who wont listen or learn. Taking the time to come up with a plan only to have the next guy in line ignore it completely a do some bone headed move... so so frustrating.

Great players want to play with people who can understand what they say and see what they see. Where is the fun in being a level above everyone you play with. Even if they do whatever you say if they never contribute ideas or strategy's you might as well be playing poly.

100% This.

[riskllama]

i like shannon a lot in this thread.

[MagnusGreeol]

i like shannon a lot in this thread.

I love reading Shannons posts! She's on the mark when ever I see them! ")>

[riskllama]

#spreadthelove...

[Jdsizzleslice]

I enjoy the team play (would enjoy it more if there weren't so many missed moves and those ignoring chat to do their own thing),

This right here is the reason that some of the lower tier clans don't reach the big game. They keep players like this around. The clans up there in the top 5 probably boot them out if they start acting this way and don't improve. Those type of people are the ones that run the good players off. It's kinda important not to let them join in the first place, then you don't have that dilemma of getting to know and like them. If you're anything like me, I'd find it impossible to kick them unless they were horrible people. lol.

I’ve had to make the call to “work people out.” We have many good friendships within TOFU, but at the end of the day TOFU exists to win. It’s not fun making that choice, yet it’s necessary for the team. There are great players that we need to keep reasonably happy by not teaming them with careless players or letting careless players cause losses.

This is where our perspectives differ radically and what has becoming ingrained in me has resulted in this thread.

FISO was an atypical clan for CC, a group of 20+ joined within a few weeks of each other, the clan created a few months later with the only requirement being that you were a member of our originating forum. Last night I had a read through the threads from 7 years ago that led us here, great memories and good fun, a new adventure for us. Some stayed, some only lasted a few games, backs being slapped as we ventured out into CC and as each new rank was reached, strong showings in tourneys, followed by wins, sometimes as individuals sometimes as teams. We have always been inclusive rather than exclusive, if you wanted to play then you got games, as simple as that.

It was a bit of a surprise when the first 'outsider' applied to join the clan, but we took him in and he was a good fit. Players come and go for a variety of reasons, only 6 of the 28 from our forum now remain as active players that I'm aware of. We merged with Splinter Cell, a clan with a similar mentality, a group of players that wanted to play organised team games without massive hassle and FIASCO came into being. We have what many clans don't appear to have, a good number willing to play a part in the admin side of things, one person isn't stretched to the limit, if 2/3/4 aren't able to run a war/ comp there are several others that will and if someone runs into difficulties then someone else will step in.

When the FISO clan was formed CC activity had just dropped below the 16k mark, less than 7 years later and it is now down to around 5k. Clans are constantly folding/ merging/ being absorbed and rebranded, but the numbers are falling. A year or two back I went through every clan's membership, generally a third of each roster was inactive, I guess it's still about the same, we have one inactive due to serious illness and a few that are missing quite a few moves lately for various reasons (some I know, some I don't) following a cull of a dozen that had been inactive for over a year (some a lot longer). CC is dying a slow death, 'working out' active players isn't going to help that, how many times have you read 'if it wasn't for the clan then I'd be gone from CC'? Hoarding players, driving others out and killing competition isn't going to make the site any more active is it?

Those at the top, whether it be as individuals or as a group should have a responsibility to those below them, I understand the drive to win, to be the best, but when there's no-one else left, what's it worth?

Ultimately, Clans are about unity, and competing to win. Risk is a game of chance, and any given clan may win based off chance. However, we all know that the clans that do well have amazing communication and teamwork. It's not that people get "booted" because they aren't liked, it's because they do not possess the two above qualities. Most clans don't "boot" players immediately, either. They take the time to see whether or not a player can develop into a great strategist. They take the time to see if they will fit into their group's culture. It's about contribution. Ask yourself, "How can I contribute my talents, strategies, thoughts, and skills to my clan to help benefit everyone, including myself?"

The above question is the type of question that leaders of these clans have asked themselves numerous times. I'm not even referring to the clan specific leaders, but players who are well known for their strategy and excellence on CC. This is what separates players from those who cannot communicate. The players who ask this question and who answer this question successfully are those who have done successfully on CC, especially in the clan world.

If you really want a recent example of this, look at AFOS and how we played in the RL8. We had 11 active members and ended up in 3rd place (one or two wins away from 2nd or 1st). I'm not saying this to toot my own horn, but to instead show you that quantity is irrelevant. It's quality that matters.

[Extreme Ways]

i like shannon a lot in this thread.

I like shannon a lot.

Also, JD is right.

[MagnusGreeol]

i like shannon a lot in this thread.

I like shannon a lot.

Also, JD is right.

+2 then, one for each!? ")>

[Shannon Apple]

Aw shucks... <3 you guys.

Also yes, +1 to everything JD said.