[CC3] SEMI FINALS KoRT vs TOFU 29-31 - Final 5/2

[Doc_Brown]

Josko,
We can't give a formal response a formal request that hasn't been made. CoF's opinion is that such a request would be denied based on the state of the game at the time the glitch occurred. If a formal request is made, I'm sure TOFU would be willing to fully consider the merits of such a request and give a full response at such a time.

[Dako]

Glitches happen , just gotta suck it up :D

Here is your personal opinion what to do in this case, stated in another thread:
viewtopic.php?f=442&t=100282&start=630#p2360252

That post was made more than 3 years ago. People change josko.

[Leehar]

Josko,
We can't give a formal response a formal request that hasn't been made. CoF's opinion is that such a request would be denied based on the state of the game at the time the glitch occurred. If a formal request is made, I'm sure TOFU would be willing to fully consider the merits of such a request and give a full response at such a time.

And Josko, please take this post at face value and not comment any further on the matter.
We all know what happened in a previous war between your 2 clans, and we wouldn't want what is said in this thread to affect any decision that may need to be made.

I suggest you let the clan leaders handle the matter, and take a step back to avoid garnering any further ill-will.
The uproar can occur after all possible proceedings have taken place

[comic boy]

Glitches happen , just gotta suck it up

Here is your personal opinion what to do in this case, stated in another thread:
viewtopic.php?f=442&t=100282&start=630#p2360252

Now that I am more fully aware of the situation I would be happy to replay the game if anything out of the ordinary was found to have occured, not seen a shred of evidence to that effect yet though.

So somehow you changed your opinion when it really happened? I see you clearly state that you would be happy to replay the game if anything out of ordinary was found to have occurred, but now when it is occurred and you are in that game you changed your opinion by 180 degrees? Well, this is not the first time that opinions from someone from TOFU clan are going back to their face, so I am not surprised at all

You reap what you sew mate , if one thrives on gamesmanship then they should not expect to be given a sporting second chance , as I said , suck it up

[josko.ri]

Glitches happen , just gotta suck it up

Here is your personal opinion what to do in this case, stated in another thread:
viewtopic.php?f=442&t=100282&start=630#p2360252

Now that I am more fully aware of the situation I would be happy to replay the game if anything out of the ordinary was found to have occured, not seen a shred of evidence to that effect yet though.

So somehow you changed your opinion when it really happened? I see you clearly state that you would be happy to replay the game if anything out of ordinary was found to have occurred, but now when it is occurred and you are in that game you changed your opinion by 180 degrees? Well, this is not the first time that opinions from someone from TOFU clan are going back to their face, so I am not surprised at all

You reap what you sew mate , if one thrives on gamesmanship then they should not expect to be given a sporting second chance , as I said , suck it up

I consider this to be (should be) the site rule to replay competitive games screwed by a site mistake, not to be charity from TOFU. Any asking for charity from me to TOFU I would consider like lowering my own honor values, so you will not watch that film my friend

[Doc_Brown]

Any asking for charity from me to TOFU I would consider like lowering my own honor values, so you will not watch that film my friend

Just so I'm clear (I can be a little slow at times), you wouldn't dream of lowering yourself to make such a request from TOFU, but you do want a clear response from TOFU as to whether such a request would be accepted?

[Chariot of Fire]

Glitches happen , just gotta suck it up

Here is your personal opinion what to do in this case, stated in another thread:
viewtopic.php?f=442&t=100282&start=630#p2360252

Now that I am more fully aware of the situation I would be happy to replay the game if anything out of the ordinary was found to have occured, not seen a shred of evidence to that effect yet though.

So somehow you changed your opinion when it really happened? I see you clearly state that you would be happy to replay the game if anything out of ordinary was found to have occurred, but now when it is occurred and you are in that game you changed your opinion by 180 degrees? Well, this is not the first time that opinions from someone from TOFU clan are going back to their face, so I am not surprised at all

You reap what you sew mate , if one thrives on gamesmanship then they should not expect to be given a sporting second chance , as I said , suck it up

I consider this to be (should be) the site rule to replay competitive games screwed by a site mistake, not to be charity from TOFU. Any asking for charity from me to TOFU I would consider like lowering my own honor values, so you will not watch that film my friend

Well that's settled any debate then, cheers.

[denthefrog]

can u all chill out
when this incident happens i contacted the Dako, he has replied.
now kort leaders will discuss what we are going to do.

[jetsetwilly]

can u all chill out
when this incident happens i contacted the Dako, he has replied.
now kort leaders will discuss what we are going to do.

Precisely, this should be discussed by the 2 clan contacts.

Nothing is required in this thread so let's leave it please.

[josko.ri]

Any asking for charity from me to TOFU I would consider like lowering my own honor values, so you will not watch that film my friend

Just so I'm clear (I can be a little slow at times), you wouldn't dream of lowering yourself to make such a request from TOFU

Read my post, this is thread for chatting about this war. I posted my opinion (everyone who comment here in thread are doing so, no?) and asked what will be done. I did not request anything, nor I am in position to request anything. There are officials from both clans who are there to make or not make a request. I consider my posting as unofficially (unofficially from KORT, officially from myself as every my post is) stating my own opinion. Here is difference between asking and requesting:

Asking: "If true, what will be done then? Normally continue the game, or replay?"
Requesting: "TOFU, I request you to replay the game."

but you do want a clear response from TOFU as to whether such a request would be accepted?

Where did I say that I want official response? I got an response and I asked is it official TOFU or just one player opinion, there is no any my asking that I am requesting official TOFU response, there was asking IF that was official TOFU opinion. Whoever is willing to chat and discuss is welcome, this is thread for chatting about this war, no? So please do not put in my mouth what I did not do.

[fishydance]

can u all chill out
when this incident happens i contacted the Dako, he has replied.
now kort leaders will discuss what we are going to do.

Thanks frog! For that you shall be awarded two Jaffa cakes!

[Rodion]

My opinion is that, first of all, the webmaster needs to make a statement regarding a bug that is, ultimately, his fault. Preferably, with haste. This time issue seems to have affected multiple CC games, so I can only assume tech mods have already contacted El Jefe for a hasty solution.

[jetsetwilly]

The CD's are not in a position to order a remake of the game although equally Dako can't make any ruling as organiser here given that he's not entirely able to sit neutral on this one. This is 100% a site issue and the bug should be reported. The game should not be remade unless the Denise and Den agree to do so.

We will unlock the thread but no further discussion on this point is wanted until Den or Denise have posted the outcome of their discussions.

[denthefrog]

TOFU as expected stand by CoF previous statement,

Fen with a set, red with 4 cards, green with 4 cards, everybody safe and a healthy troop lead. Only orange had 4 cards on Team 2, cyan had not been carding and pink was down to one territory. I think a replay is unreasonable given the advantageous position we were in, and I'm sure you had 'Tofu ahead' in this game too. The clincher was perhaps Pirlo missing his turn holding a 3 card set. Had he played and cashed the situation would be very different, but then maybe a request for a replay wouldn't be forthcoming from your side.

[josko.ri]

As I already stated, I think there is no TOFU who should have power to make decision, the game was screwed by site so site owners should be the ones to make final decision in the case. When there are request on the site for a game to be replayed for whatever reason, do site owners ask winning side if the game will be replayed, or site owners make their unbiased decision if the game will be replayed? As Rodion has already said, the bug is ultimately admins mistake, so there is admin who should make decision about how to solve consequences of his mistake, not players involved in games.

Also, I see in discussion that TOFU values this kind of win the same like our kind of win in 2010. But they are wrong, this is very different case. We won the war because of TOFU's mistake and they won the key game (maybe war) because of CC mistake. KORT is not guilty at all that CC made mistake, and TOFU was guilty that they had made their mistake in our first war. So those are 2 totally different cases, no matter that TOFU is desperately trying to present them like the same cases.

[Chariot of Fire]

Pirlo missed his turn while holding a 3-card-set. Any chance of redemption for Team 2 in Game 12351905 was lost with that missed turn; something that was entirely within Kort's power to control. It's indeed unfortunate that Jane's turn timed out due to a site bug, but by that stage the play was defensive and desperate. Fenrir, with a trade, would have taken the alternative option of killing pink for his cards instead of orange for his. Trades were still relatively low (no comparison to Forbidden City where a friendly kill won us the game) and so the position would have been 1 player on Team 2 with a trade and 3 players on Team 1 with trades. These are the facts. Any notion that X could have killed Y and earned a trade is just supposition. He may have tried and he may have succeeded or he may have failed, just as Fen may have failed going for pink instead of orange. We'll just never know.

Also, I see in discussion that TOFU values this kind of win the same like our kind of win in 2010

Really? I don't see that anywhere. We value achievements that are deserved or earned. No-one likes a hollow victory. This particular game was destined for a TOFU win after the early exchanges and the position we were in when the glitch occurred. For you to try and call it otherwise is a particularly cheap shot, demeaning to the players involved and to the challenge as a whole. It would be akin to TOFU asking for a replay of Game 12213226 where, despite your clear advantage and ability to win the game, you are purposefully prolonging the inevitable outcome. How would you feel if a glitch occurred in that game? Do you really think TOFU would request a replay? If so you are seriously misguided.

As I already stated, I think there is no TOFU who should have power to make decision, the game was screwed by site so site owners should be the ones to make final decision in the case. When there are request on the site for a game to be replayed for whatever reason, do site owners ask winning side if the game will be replayed, or site owners make their unbiased decision if the game will be replayed? As Rodion has already said, the bug is ultimately admins mistake, so there is admin who should make decision about how to solve consequences of his mistake, not players involved in games.

Yes, quite right. So please go elsewhere and beg them for a remake and don't come to us as "there is no TOFU who should have power to make decision". So regrettably it is completely out of our control. Our statements to-date in this regard have merely been in response to questions asked from your side.

no matter that TOFU is desperately trying to present them like the same cases

I haven't witnessed any 'desperate' attempts to draw comparisons to this game in question and the challenge in 2010. Why would we be desperate to do so? You may wish to, by the same token that you may be feeling quite desperate right now and will do whatever you can to score a win - whether deserved or earned. Which succinctly brings me back to my opening remark in this post.

If any comparison was to be drawn between this case and 2010 I'd say it was one of sportsmanship, and we all have our own opinions of where you stand in that regard.

Good day.

[jetsetwilly]

I think sportsmanship went out of the window a long time ago as far as any war with these 2 clans is concerned Any other 2 clans would have worked this out between them in no time.

As previously stated, the CD's won't order a replay. KORT can refer it to the admins if they wish.

It's a shame that TOFU wouldn't consider granting a replay for a single game in a WAR that they are almost certainly destined to win, and that KORT would push so hard for a replay in a game that was almost certainly lost but that's just my personal opinion and again, I shall point back to the lack of sportsmanship and the continual mess that this thread is and the downer it puts on the whole clan world. Both clans do the rest of us a disservice.

[IcePack]

Is it really going to come down to 1 game? If its more than 1 this becomes a bit redundant.

[josko.ri]

Pirlo missed his turn while holding a 3-card-set. Any chance of redemption for Team 2 in Game 12351905 was lost with that missed turn; something that was entirely within Kort's power to control. It's indeed unfortunate that Jane's turn timed out due to a site bug, but by that stage the play was defensive and desperate. Fenrir, with a trade, would have taken the alternative option of killing pink for his cards instead of orange for his. Trades were still relatively low (no comparison to Forbidden City where a friendly kill won us the game) and so the position would have been 1 player on Team 2 with a trade and 3 players on Team 1 with trades. These are the facts. Any notion that X could have killed Y and earned a trade is just supposition. He may have tried and he may have succeeded or he may have failed, just as Fen may have failed going for pink instead of orange. We'll just never know.

Pirlo's missed turn is our mistake and we continued the game normally living with that mistake. We lowered our position with the miss, so we are guilty for that. But even with the miss, we had good chances, before the glitch had happened. I checked Fenrir with a set would have 88% odds for killing pink, and in case of fail KORT would take initiative. Even cowboyz could kill Pirlo and got 2 cards set, all that for 12%. If Fen went on pink and made success, still not lost. Sets are 10,12 and ballenus has decent chance for kill cowboyz, get 2 sets and have chained run on Green and after that red or blue. So both in cases Fenrir kills Pirlo (more likely) or fails (less likely) we still had decent chance of winning.

Also, I see you are speaking about Pirlo's miss. He posted in our forum that he lost internet connection when he was planning to take the turn, and then fall asleep in waiting for connection to be back due to being exhausted by hard work that day. Ok, those are his reasons but that is irrelevant in my argument. So, what is relevant in my argument? Relevant is that we do not share passwords among ourselves in cases of missing players in actions. Our players have like 2/3 designated sitters, and in Pirlo's case it happened his sitters weren't online when the time came low. Both me and denthefrog who are not his sitters were online and were seeing how the turn are going to be missed. If KORT is like TOFU, that players share passwords to the one person who is the most often online, we would not have 9 misses in the war (including the Pirlo's miss) compared with 2 misses in the war by TOFU. I personally have witnesses several of those misses while I was being online. But we are not like you, we share our passwords by rules, our Moderators for example do not give Moderator password to normal players in case of missing in action nor we have one player holding all passwords in case of any player missing in action. Judging by your sitting in Ardennes for Dako, you obviously have his password even when he is not absent, which I think is against the rules. As I already stated in this thread and in pm with Denise, I will officially check if that is legal doing, but after the war ends, because if any abuse is done by you, it will be your 3rd infraction and ban from the site, and my honor values are high enough to not cause your possible banning and our possible winning of the war because of the possible ban.

Also, I see in discussion that TOFU values this kind of win the same like our kind of win in 2010

Really? I don't see that anywhere. We value achievements that are deserved or earned. No-one likes a hollow victory. This particular game was destined for a TOFU win after the early exchanges and the position we were in when the glitch occurred. For you to try and call it otherwise is a particularly cheap shot, demeaning to the players involved and to the challenge as a whole. It would be akin to TOFU asking for a replay of Game 12213226 where, despite your clear advantage and ability to win the game, you are purposefully prolonging the inevitable outcome. How would you feel if a glitch occurred in that game? Do you really think TOFU would request a replay? If so you are seriously misguided.

As you don't see it anywhere, I recommend you to either buy glasses for better sight, or you again read your clan mate statement where he is referring to the case from 2010:

You reap what you sew mate , if one thrives on gamesmanship then they should not expect to be given a sporting second chance , as I said , suck it up

Also, we would for sure not request any replay if that occurred in Cman game where we lost any chances. But in Egypt was different story, there we had many chances to win that game before the error occurred.

As I already stated, I think there is no TOFU who should have power to make decision, the game was screwed by site so site owners should be the ones to make final decision in the case. When there are request on the site for a game to be replayed for whatever reason, do site owners ask winning side if the game will be replayed, or site owners make their unbiased decision if the game will be replayed? As Rodion has already said, the bug is ultimately admins mistake, so there is admin who should make decision about how to solve consequences of his mistake, not players involved in games.

Yes, quite right. So please go elsewhere and beg them for a remake and don't come to us as "there is no TOFU who should have power to make decision". So regrettably it is completely out of our control. Our statements to-date in this regard have merely been in response to questions asked from your side.

This is thread to chat about things related to this war, and I am doing so. I ask, state my opinion, and you also do so. So I do not see what is wrong with chatting in this thread about issues related to this war, which are only doings done by myself.

[Dako]

Somehow I start to enjoy this thread. It raises my mood tremendously.

[Chariot of Fire]

I think sportsmanship went out of the window a long time ago as far as any war with these 2 clans is concerned Any other 2 clans would have worked this out between them in no time.

As previously stated, the CD's won't order a replay. KORT can refer it to the admins if they wish.

It's a shame that TOFU wouldn't consider granting a replay for a single game in a WAR that they are almost certainly destined to win, and that KORT would push so hard for a replay in a game that was almost certainly lost but that's just my personal opinion and again, I shall point back to the lack of sportsmanship and the continual mess that this thread is and the downer it puts on the whole clan world. Both clans do the rest of us a disservice.

I have a lot of respect for you mate, but these comments coming from a CD really have no place - for these reasons:

It's a shame that TOFU wouldn't consider granting a replay for a single game in a WAR that they are almost certainly destined to win

I'm guessing you have no idea what the likely outcome of the remaining active games are? If you did you wouldn't make such a statement. Secondly, we did consider a replay, but given the overriding circumstance that the game was on the verge of being won it seemed very unfair to the team that was destined to be victorious.

and that KORT would push so hard for a replay in a game that was almost certainly lost

I can't blame them for asking - it was worth a try. We did however consider it was an unreasonable request given the commanding position our team was in.

So your statement, when taken as whole, really doesn't draw any conclusion. We are in the wrong for not granting a replay, and Kort are in the wrong for asking. So what exactly is your point? If, as you state, it was a game that "was almost certainly lost" then why is it wrong of TOFU to decline the request for a replay?

and the downer it puts on the whole clan world. Both clans do the rest of us a disservice

Really? There's some antagonism between the two clans - something that may be expected when vying for top honours - and you think heated debate and discussion puts a downer on the clan world? This is a challenge thread - words are exchanged - and if you find it distasteful ignore it. And I fail to see what you mean by your last remark. What service should we be providing? Are you at all familiar with some of the challenges (neither Tofu nor Kort being involved) that have gone before and the exchanges that were made?

From what I have read this has all gone along in a relatively civil manner, with the majority of protagonists all choosing to get along and not make any great drama. There have been some very cool heads from both sides in here, along with the occasional heated exchange, all of which has lent colour and flavour to a challenge that many in the clan world were looking forward to.

It's a pity that given your role you don't see it that way and would rather we all sat round the camp fire singing Kumbaya.

Pass the marshmallows.

[Chariot of Fire]

This is thread to chat about things related to this war, and I am doing so.

So, what is relevant in my argument? Relevant is that we do not share passwords among ourselves in cases of missing players in actions. Our players have like 2/3 designated sitters, and in Pirlo's case it happened his sitters weren't online when the time came low. Both me and denthefrog who are not his sitters were online and were seeing how the turn are going to be missed. If KORT is like TOFU, that players share passwords to the one person who is the most often online, we would not have 9 misses in the war (including the Pirlo's miss) compared with 2 misses in the war by TOFU. I personally have witnesses several of those misses while I was being online. But we are not like you, we share our passwords by rules, our Moderators for example do not give Moderator password to normal players in case of missing in action nor we have one player holding all passwords in case of any player missing in action. Judging by your sitting in Ardennes for Dako, you obviously have his password even when he is not absent, which I think is against the rules. As I already stated in this thread and in pm with Denise, I will officially check if that is legal doing, but after the war ends, because if any abuse is done by you, it will be your 3rd infraction and ban from the site, and my honor values are high enough to not cause your possible banning and our possible winning of the war because of the possible ban.

Keep digging that hole Josko, keep digging son.

In future I might not reply to your posts here for fear of censure. I'll reply to them in our forum so we can all have another really good laugh at your expense

[Chariot of Fire]

* fear of censure and/or this thread being locked again due to your ridiculous ad hominem attacks.

[josko.ri]

CoF, Nice way to go out of conversation when you are left without any argument to reply. You have always been expert in public acting, congrats on that

[Dako]

He does some pretty good acting in private as well, if you know what I mean. Ask freakns ;).