[CC2] 2nd Annual Conqueror's Cup!!

[SirSebstar]

you mean like the fact that previous editions of this particular event also did not recieve medals for non finals games>?

[Incandenza]

you mean like the fact that previous editions of this particular event also did not recieve medals for non finals games>?

That isn't actually true. Every winner starting in the round of 16 in CC1 received medals. I don't believe the play-in rounds from CC1 qualified for medals, but those were much shorter, 21-game affairs rather than the larger 41-game challenges in this year's first round.

[Eyestone]

you mean like the fact that previous editions of this particular event also did not recieve medals for non finals games>?

Like Inca points out, you are entirely wrong here. Everyone got a medal from the 1st round of the cup last year, so I really don't understand how anyone can say that the final 8 isn't automatically qualified to get a medal this year. It should be the same thing... Final 16 should even be good enough.

[sonicsteve]

you mean like the fact that previous editions of this particular event also did not recieve medals for non finals games>?

That isn't actually true. Every winner starting in the round of 16 in CC1 received medals. I don't believe the play-in rounds from CC1 qualified for medals, but those were much shorter, 21-game affairs rather than the larger 41-game challenges in this year's first round.

Quite so. THOTA, the 1st seed beat Left4Dead, who were seeded 16th.

As is expected for a 40 game challenge between clans, THOTA received medals for the win.

Surely the decision has to be to award medals to all clan battles of 40+ games, regardless of the arena. Clans don't farm.

[josko.ri]

cmon guys, do you play for fun or for medals?

[SirSebstar]

are you asking a medalhunter or just everybody in particular?

[stahrgazer]

FYI, in a pm yesterday, JP indicated medals would be awarded; he did not specify, but since the issue was about all rounds, I'm guessing he meant ALL rounds.

Legends play for fun, I'm not a medals-hunter and don't think any LoW is; but if CC offers a medal I deserve, then I want it. It's that simple. Those who feel otherwise can probably make a request that CC remove all little medal pictures from your wall and profile.

The extended amount of conversation you see here, challenge threads, and Clan Medals thread is because I was receiving conflicting and illogical answers to the original problem. I chose to squawk VERY loudly about it because NOT everyone was aware there was a problem in the first place.

[jpcloet]

you mean like the fact that previous editions of this particular event also did not recieve medals for non finals games>?

Like Inca points out, you are entirely wrong here. Everyone got a medal from the 1st round of the cup last year, so I really don't understand how anyone can say that the final 8 isn't automatically qualified to get a medal this year. It should be the same thing... Final 16 should even be good enough.

When going back to issue historical medals anything that looked like a clan war and quacked like a clan war got one, primarily based on size.

[Chuuuuck]

you mean like the fact that previous editions of this particular event also did not recieve medals for non finals games>?

Like Inca points out, you are entirely wrong here. Everyone got a medal from the 1st round of the cup last year, so I really don't understand how anyone can say that the final 8 isn't automatically qualified to get a medal this year. It should be the same thing... Final 16 should even be good enough.

When going back to issue historical medals anything that looked like a clan war and quacked like a clan war got one, primarily based on size.

This statement made me laugh...

[Commander9]

When going back to issue historical medals anything that looked like a clan war and quacked like a clan war got one, primarily based on size.

This statement made me laugh...

It's not that unusual that accomplishments are measured by the size. In fact, humanity is so focused on size and shape that even bullets and rockets have a specific size and shape - it's also usually said that the bigger, the better.

[MichelSableheart]

All of the CLA was aware of it April 24th

Our clanchallenge against AoC was created March 4th, and finished April 22nd. All I as a normal member officially heard from the CD's during this period was "no medals issued" when it was moved to completed, without any explanation whatsoever. I know SirSebstar was better aware of the discussions (I believe in his role as clanleader), but you can't expect a clanleader to explain and defend a CD's decission.

Your communication has been lacking here.

[jrh_cardinal]

All of the CLA was aware of it April 24th

Our clanchallenge against AoC was created March 4th, and finished April 22nd. All I as a normal member officially heard from the CD's during this period was "no medals issued" when it was moved to completed, without any explanation whatsoever. I know SirSebstar was better aware of the discussions (I believe in his role as clanleader), but you can't expect a clanleader to explain and defend a CD's decission.

Your communication has been lacking here.

The CD's don't have time to defend their position to every clan player on the site, look at what happened when a major tournament decision's discussion went public before it was finalized. The CLA is a good idea for the CD's to get clans opinions on changes without getting overwhelmed by everyone. Then it's just up to the CD's whether they listen to the clan leaders opinions or not, same as if it went totally public.

[Rodion]

Whether you like it or not, the Lack/Andy/JP hold the cards and I see no reason to keep pressing them when they already showed they're willing to change the policies and award the medals soon(ish). I mean, the difference between getting a clan war medal now or 5 months in the future will not make or break my CC life.

I think it's pointless to complain until the policies are published. Unless they take more than, say, 2 months from now to be effective.

[Rodion]

I want to know about the deadline for creation of batch 2 games!

[Chuuuuck]

I want to know about the deadline for creation of batch 2 games!

Sorry Rodion, I missed this before.

The entire schedule will be pushed back a full week after this round got started late. I will hopefully have the schedule updated on the OP tonight.

[Lubawski]

Perhaps the bracket as well?

[stahrgazer]

Whether you like it or not, the Lack/Andy/JP hold the cards and I see no reason to keep pressing them when they already showed they're willing to change the policies and award the medals soon(ish). I mean, the difference between getting a clan war medal now or 5 months in the future will not make or break my CC life.

I think it's pointless to complain until the policies are published. Unless they take more than, say, 2 months from now to be effective.

So, you're saying it's okay to implement unpublished policies that negatively affect players, retro-actively, prior to policies being published; but not okay for the community to wish for retroactive implementation of unpublished policies that positively affect players, prior to policies being published.

That's so logically unfriendly, you should be a cc mod!

[Rodion]

I said it's not okay to keep arguing over a medal that the mods already told them they are probably going to give you later on. Just wait. If they don't give it, then you complain.

[stahrgazer]

I said it's not okay to keep arguing over a medal that the mods already told them they are probably going to give you later on. Just wait. If they don't give it, then you complain.

Yes, yes, the reason they're not giving it now is they haven't written the policies.

Makes lots of sense that they refused to give it based on policies they hadn't written, too.

I drafted something for him just over a week ago.. haven't heard a word.

[reptile]

I said it's not okay to keep arguing over a medal that the mods already told them they are probably going to give you later on. Just wait. If they don't give it, then you complain.

I dont think anyone cares as much about the medal (if at all), so much as the excuses we get when it is brought up.

[stahrgazer]

I said it's not okay to keep arguing over a medal that the mods already told them they are probably going to give you later on. Just wait. If they don't give it, then you complain.

I dont think anyone cares as much about the medal (if at all), so much as the excuses we get when it is brought up.

Sort of true, sort of not.

I care about the implication of "not receiving" a medal which can be considered as caring about the medal itself.

I care about the discrepancy between Chuuuck's Cup, which even has a precedent of medals being awarded before, and suddenly wasn't going to (or would have: 1) only the final 2 rounds awarded, or 2) only the final 8 participants rewarded - depending on which version of which story you read); and the Newcomer's Cup, which never had medals delayed or denied this year - and again, that could be considered caring about the medal itself.

But, yes, if we'd gotten one full story that had no conflicts from the first; if we hadn't been taunted by the idea that our participation in a skirmish series was "unfair"; and if each of the "Cup series" had been treated alike; then I'd have had less issue with whatever the decision had been.

However, with a prior precedent that did award medals for these wars, I think a sudden change to not awarding them, even if all similar skirmishes were equally "no longer going to" - it would have merited questioning anyway.

But as it is, there's an unwritten policy awarding one series already, and an unwritten policy delaying this series, so yeah, I think that still merits questions by whomever's asking. (and good luck with that )

[Lubawski]

Let me try to clarify. I always held my piece because Chuck was a part of EMPIRE and I was trying to be tactful, but now that he's with TOFU, I can say this without caring about backlash from JP.

When Chuck first came to our clan with the idea for this, he asked how we should proceed without pissing off JP. We ironed out some of the details and got input from a few other clan leaders, then Chuck sent the idea to JP to get his "buy in." It was very clear to me from the beginning that JP hated this idea. He fought against it, kept his clan out of it (yeah, I'm sure that was a clan decision when every other major clan has participated). He's repeatedly done things to try to keep other clans from participating, first by saying these challenges wouldn't count in the ladder, then by trying to hold off medals. This is a continuation. The minute he stops being a pussy, owns that he fucked up and is trying to kill this, despite it being the most popular clan event, and begins to represent what the entire clan community wants and knows is right, this will all be much better.

For Chuck's part, he has frequently tried to make this a CLA sponsored event. He wanted (and I brought the idea to the CLA) to have an "events sub-committee" of CLA members who were in charge of the major events (this, the Clan League, and anything else that might be brought forward).

I know JP has done an enormous amount for the clan community, and I'm not trying to discount any of that. However, his personal bias and ego have gotten in the way of this event's running. There is no reason this should even be an argument. Star has pointed out several double-standards already.

[Chuuuuck]

The bracket, schedule and links to all war threads have been updated on the OP and second post.

[jpcloet]

Let me try to clarify. I always held my piece because Chuck was a part of EMPIRE and I was trying to be tactful, but now that he's with TOFU, I can say this without caring about backlash from JP.

When Chuck first came to our clan with the idea for this, he asked how we should proceed without pissing off JP. We ironed out some of the details and got input from a few other clan leaders, then Chuck sent the idea to JP to get his "buy in." It was very clear to me from the beginning that JP hated this idea. He fought against it, kept his clan out of it (yeah, I'm sure that was a clan decision when every other major clan has participated). He's repeatedly done things to try to keep other clans from participating, first by saying these challenges wouldn't count in the ladder, then by trying to hold off medals. This is a continuation. The minute he stops being a pussy, owns that he fucked up and is trying to kill this, despite it being the most popular clan event, and begins to represent what the entire clan community wants and knows is right, this will all be much better.

For Chuck's part, he has frequently tried to make this a CLA sponsored event. He wanted (and I brought the idea to the CLA) to have an "events sub-committee" of CLA members who were in charge of the major events (this, the Clan League, and anything else that might be brought forward).

I know JP has done an enormous amount for the clan community, and I'm not trying to discount any of that. However, his personal bias and ego have gotten in the way of this event's running. There is no reason this should even be an argument. Star has pointed out several double-standards already.

I feel like I need to respond to the baits here, whether you care or not.

I never hated the idea, show me where I said I hated it. My clan stayed out the first time over the concerns of how the rankings were done and concerns about how it would be run and organized. The handling of TOFU-KORT alone is justification for me. We (AOD) barely even talked about CC2 and we are currently missing turns in the Legion war. Based on our attendance this year, fielding a team wasn't looking promising. A few of us probably would have had to do a lot of sitting.

Please show me where I said it would not count for the ladder please. (Edit-this is possible depending on which ladder) Medals were not released primarily due to the agreement with Chuuuuck around the non-competitive concerns. I've always indicated that I was willing and going to back-track on the medals and that will get done soon. The privs and medals policies have been drafted and is under CD team review.

As for Stahr, she sent me way too much, it was more like a legal document than something useful for a clan handbook. It was really good work, but simply over-complicated. If we need to write legal docs for CC, I think she'd do well.

[Lubawski]

AOD's reasons for sitting out sound legitimate (more so for CC2 than CC1 though, considering how many top clans you saw joining the fray).

As for the medals, I stand my ground. I don't save PMs from back then, so I can't show you anything. Perhaps we have something in the EMPIRE thread from when we were drafting the idea and getting feedback, but I don't want to spend the time. It's really not worth bickering over. Medals should be awarded, the community feels medals should be awarded, so there is no reason why they are not awarded. The "non-competitive concern" is bullshit. This arena has shown how upsets can and do occur. New clans get to prove themselves, and even if they don't win, earn a hell of a lot of respect for a top-notch showing. There has not been a single instance of a clan farming yet. In fact, if there was going to be, it would be a new talented clan farming the bottom other new unorganized clans, but that would be passed along as competitive because they are new. The community can police itself and when they see bullshit, they'll call it out. You do not need to make executive decisions behind closed doors like this about concerns of medal farming. Clan challenge medals require a lot of work to earn, whether it's a tight challenge or a blow out. The organization and commitment alone is far more than most other ways to "farm" medals on this site. And at the end of the day, why should admin care if a clan has an extra two or three medals? All that could possibly do is create a happier client base. Before you give the "what about the losing clan" argument, think to the most recent debate about a clan farming with TOFU and T4C. Look at what T4C have been doing recently and you will see how that losing clan learns and develops as a result. It's a win-win.