Perception of Top 10 Clans [Annually + Longevity]

[Seulessliathan]

as soon as one of my clan pm´s make and declares that he made the rules and that he is overseeing all this, than it´s fine. i don´t believe i make myself looking bad.

I do

i didn´t know this is flame wars Blitz .....

you started it, so I ended it.

next time pm me instead of embarrasing yourself public and making false accusations.

thx

peace

and big thanks to Lindax for speaking up. way to go amigo

if you believe i started it, go on and report me in C&A

i don´t see where i started it, i just asked questions and voted for a democratic system. i don´t see any sentence which would have offended you. I said that i don´t believe it´s good if one player makes the rules. That´s my honest opinion. If this doesn´t happen here, it´s all good and i don´t see any reason to speak up here again. I have no idea if you have any personal problems with me, and i don´t try to get any advantage for my clan here. I just speak up as i always do when i fear that someone wants to establish a system which has been invented by only a few people (or 1 person?). If that´s not the case here, you don´t need to worry about my posts.

[Blitzaholic]

as soon as one of my clan pm´s make and declares that he made the rules and that he is overseeing all this, than it´s fine. i don´t believe i make myself looking bad.

I do

i didn´t know this is flame wars Blitz .....

you started it, so I ended it.

next time pm me instead of embarrasing yourself public and making false accusations.

thx

peace

and big thanks to Lindax for speaking up. way to go amigo

if you believe i started it, go on and report me in C&A

i don´t see where i started it, i just asked questions and voted for a democratic system. i don´t see any sentence which would have offended you. I said that i don´t believe it´s good if one player makes the rules. That´s my honest opinion. If this doesn´t happen here, it´s all good and i don´t see any reason to speak up here again. I have no idea if you have any personal problems with me, and i don´t try to get any advantage for my clan here. I just speak up as i always do when i fear that someone wants to establish a system which has been invented by only a few people (or 1 person?). If that´s not the case here, you don´t need to worry about my posts.

I agree, so now that you are satisfied and realize it is legit, we can move on. I don't need to create some fishy system that you may of thought to show Thota is #1 and I certainly would not of had the names named as my 1st choices to perceive their top 10 as most are not my friends, but, I do respect their opinions and I think they voted honesty. Most think and respect Thota as #1 already including your own clan seul, and most clans and players involved in clans know who the best clans are seul, as evidenced by looking back 6 months ago at chuuuuck's power rankings in 2010, and you can look back 12 months ago again when chuuuuck started his 1st cup idea. That was about right on where I had ranked them all at that time as many others have too and chuuuuck's power rankings reflected that. I thought that was a pretty accurate assesment. I just wanted another on a smaller scale just to see if it brings a similar outcome is all m8. Chuuuuck has done a great thing with his idea and I support it 100%. I of all people have supported Tsm the most and yet you (seul) of Tsm barge in here and try to create ill havoc that wasn't deserved, when you did not have all the facts and have not read the thread carefully. It is like chuuuuck's, just on a smaller scale. I am glad we worked it out and can move forward m8.


peace

[Seulessliathan]

I agree, so now that you are satisfied and realize it is legit, we can move on. I don't need to create some fishy system that you may of thought to show Thota is #1 and I certainly would not of had the names named as my 1st choices to perceive their top 10 as most are not my friends, but, I do respect their opinions and I think they voted honesty. Most think and respect Thota as #1 already, and most clans and players involved in clans know who the best clans are seul, as evidenced by looking back 6 months ago at chuuuuck's power rankings in 2010, and you can look back 12 months ago again when chuuuuck started his 1st cup idea. That was about right on where I had ranked them all at that time as many others have too and chuuuuck's power rankings reflected that. I thought that was a pretty accurate assesment. I just wanted another on a smaller scale just to see if it brings a similar outcome is all m8. Chuuuuck has done a great thing with his idea and I support it 100%. I of all people have supported Tsm the most and yet you (seul) of Tsm barge in here and try to create ill havoc that wasn't deserved, when you did not have all the facts and have not read the thread carefully. It is like chuuuuck's, just on a smaller scale. I am glad we worked it out and can move forward m8.


peace

then it´s all good. i didn´t try to make any false accusations, i´m sorry if it sounded like that.
(perhaps a language problem, i know my english is bad, it would have been more clear if i could write in my own language here, but well ....)
i didn´t try to offense you or accuse you of anything. all i wanted is to know if this is the creation of just one player (you) or several different people. It´s the second, so it´s all good. You know me, i´m fine with systems like this as long as i know that it´s not the opinion of just one guy. I will alwys speak up when someone makes such a system on his own and then wants to declare that it´s a public system.
This is not the case here, so it´s all good. I´m sorry if i offended you in any way, but i´m not sorry for asking about the system and for speaking up for democracy in these systems. Seems like there is no problem with your system, i can be interesting to see the result, although i will still give chuuuuk´s power rating more weighting. I will try to follow your project when i get the time, good luck with it.

ok, for now i´m out of this, i´m happy that in the end we managed to work this out and i got the answers i asked for.

[Blitzaholic]

[hen it´s all good. i didn´t try to make any false accusations, i´m sorry if it sounded like that.
(perhaps a language problem, i know my english is bad, it would have been more clear if i could write in my own language here, but well ....)
i didn´t try to offense you or accuse you of anything. all i wanted is to know if this is the creation of just one player (you) or several different people. It´s the second, so it´s all good. You know me, i´m fine with systems like this as long as i know that it´s not the opinion of just one guy. I will alwys speak up when someone makes such a system on his own and then wants to declare that it´s a public system.
This is not the case here, so it´s all good. I´m sorry if i offended you in any way, but i´m not sorry for asking about the system and for speaking up for democracy in these systems. Seems like there is no problem with your system, i can be interesting to see the result, although i will still give chuuuuk´s power rating more weighting. I will try to follow your project when i get the time, good luck with it.

ok, for now i´m out of this, i´m happy that in the end we managed to work this out and i got the answers i asked for.

I respect you seul for the apology, it is all good, maybe it was just your english. I am open to ideas if you want to pm lindax and myself on areas or ideas we could improve on to enhance it, great.


glad we worked it out, happy holidays m8.

[ljex]

lol, again, I am going to use chuuuuck's power rankings as I respect that, I always have, it is awesome idea, I just wanted to see how close the top 10 clans of perceptions was alligned to his, my guess, it will be pretty much the same.

I will tell you this, Chuuuuuck's rankings are so much harder because you cannot rank your own clan. It is such a measuring stick (when you haven't been sitting at the top forever ) to see the clans that you beat or the ones that beat you or the ones that put up a hell of a fight against a clan you beat, etc., and then rank them compared to where you feel your clan is at. I tried doing it with my clan in it, but it just didn't feel right. So I deleted us right off the bat and ranked everyone from there. I went through the active and completed challenges to rank the ones that I really didn't know too much about. It was a pretty fun little exercise.

You are in my top 10, though i must say its extremely difficult to rank clans 7-13 or so for me. You think someone has an advantage but any given day one of those clans can beat another...

[Chariot of Fire]

Firstly I don't think Seul owes anyone an apology. He was merely seeking a bit more disclosure about the method that was adopted. If anyone started anything then it was probably me, with a tongue-in-cheek post that my own list (rating TOFU as the greatest clan of all time) was based on a series of PMs I sent out to a group of random people whose identities were known only to myself.

I think the purpose of this exercise initially was to list clans for the historical years up to 2009 and for that purpose it seemed to have merit. Now however I really can't see the point of it when Chuck is undertaking such a similar exercise (an exercise which, I'd have thought, should just be done on an end-of-year basis from which you can publish your Top 10 anywhere you like). The discrepancy between the two methods is that Chuck wrote to the clan leaders, from whom he'll either get a well-informed opinion from a player who knows all the clans more intimately than most regular clan members, or the opinion of the clan as a whole (as will happen in TOFU's forum) for a more aggregate result.

I find most odd that you chose to ask a clan member who is neither a leader of TOFU and who has been in a competitive clan for a matter of months, yet when I see the list of names of people you invited it is quite apparent that we were the exception to the rule. Now what would have motivated you to do that I wonder? Forgive me if I find your method rather underhand, as there are far better ways to gauge the results you seek and one of them is to start by disclosing the system you will adopt, another the people you will invite, and post this information in this thread before sending out requests to your own personal list.

For the record I don't agree with the list submitted by my clan mate, and I doubt many in TOFU would either, so it hardly forms the opinion of one of the clans who are represented in your list.

[chemefreak]

lol, again, I am going to use chuuuuck's power rankings as I respect that, I always have, it is awesome idea, I just wanted to see how close the top 10 clans of perceptions was alligned to his, my guess, it will be pretty much the same.

I will tell you this, Chuuuuuck's rankings are so much harder because you cannot rank your own clan. It is such a measuring stick (when you haven't been sitting at the top forever ) to see the clans that you beat or the ones that beat you or the ones that put up a hell of a fight against a clan you beat, etc., and then rank them compared to where you feel your clan is at. I tried doing it with my clan in it, but it just didn't feel right. So I deleted us right off the bat and ranked everyone from there. I went through the active and completed challenges to rank the ones that I really didn't know too much about. It was a pretty fun little exercise.

You are in my top 10, though i must say its extremely difficult to rank clans 7-13 or so for me. You think someone has an advantage but any given day one of those clans can beat another...

I know. The good thing for us is that we have beaten all those clans! I think the Top 4 is pretty easy. In no particular order - THOTA, TOFU, KoRT, and TSM. Just amazing. The next 4 in my opinion (again, in no particular order) are Empire, IA, LoW, and us (obviously slightly biased on that last one, but we have beat 3/4 in the next group). Nemesis, Mythology, ID, and G1 (in no particular order) round out the Top 12. BotFM deserves a mention, but you just never know which clan is going to show up. BpB getting crushed by G1 was interesting and put G1 right back into the discussion. The clan that I was surprised about when I checked current and recently finished wars was AoD. So much talent, been around forever, and just not the best results. Weird. Left4Dead was also hard to rank, along with FOED. Talent, but just not enough results yet.

[ljex]

lol, again, I am going to use chuuuuck's power rankings as I respect that, I always have, it is awesome idea, I just wanted to see how close the top 10 clans of perceptions was alligned to his, my guess, it will be pretty much the same.

I will tell you this, Chuuuuuck's rankings are so much harder because you cannot rank your own clan. It is such a measuring stick (when you haven't been sitting at the top forever ) to see the clans that you beat or the ones that beat you or the ones that put up a hell of a fight against a clan you beat, etc., and then rank them compared to where you feel your clan is at. I tried doing it with my clan in it, but it just didn't feel right. So I deleted us right off the bat and ranked everyone from there. I went through the active and completed challenges to rank the ones that I really didn't know too much about. It was a pretty fun little exercise.

You are in my top 10, though i must say its extremely difficult to rank clans 7-13 or so for me. You think someone has an advantage but any given day one of those clans can beat another...

I know. The good thing for us is that we have beaten all those clans! I think the Top 4 is pretty easy. In no particular order - THOTA, TOFU, KoRT, and TSM. Just amazing. The next 4 in my opinion (again, in no particular order) are Empire, IA, LoW, and us (obviously slightly biased on that last one, but we have beat 3/4 in the next group). Nemesis, Mythology, ID, and G1 (in no particular order) round out the Top 12. BotFM deserves a mention, but you just never know which clan is going to show up. BpB getting crushed by G1 was interesting and put G1 right back into the discussion. The clan that I was surprised about when I checked current and recently finished wars was AoD. So much talent, been around forever, and just not the best results. Weird. Left4Dead was also hard to rank, along with FOED. Talent, but just not enough results yet.

Personally i look at it a bit different (no particular order for all of them), 1-5 LOW TOFU THOTA KORT TSM, 6-7, EMPIRE and IA 8-13 Nemesis, Myth, Legion, ID, AOC. Not sure where you ranked AOC but they have been phenomenal in the CL3 so they are a top 10 clan in my eyes. Also you will jump into what would be the 6-8 range if you beat nemesis, but both of those clans are not performing that well in the CL3, so its hard to put them there yet (granted hard divisions). Also AOD lost what i would say were its best 3 players in the last 2 months so they will need to recover from that.

[Master Fenrir]

Talent, but just not enough results yet.

How important are the results, though? I think everybody knows that the end result of a clan war doesn't always tell the tale. "Power" rankings and "perception" lists are meant to be as objective as a subjective list can get, not to have clan leaders regurgitate the always controvesial ladders. When I made my list for Chuck's power rankings, I did the entire thing based on the in-game experiences I've had playing against (the best of) each clan in clan wars, the clan league, tourneys, and public games, almost completely ignoring actual results. I referred to the opponents and results in clan wars of two particular clans only once to decide who to rate above the other.

[chemefreak]

Talent, but just not enough results yet.

How important are the results, though? I think everybody knows that the end result of a clan war doesn't always tell the tale. "Power" rankings and "perception" lists are meant to be as objective as a subjective list can get, not to have clan leaders regurgitate the always controvesial ladders. When I made my list for Chuck's power rankings, I did the entire thing based on the in-game experiences I've had playing against (the best of) each clan in clan wars, the clan league, tourneys, and public games, almost completely ignoring actual results.

That's definitely one way to do it...

[Blitzaholic]

Perhaps you missed this CoF, I posted this a few pages back.

Actually, if you want him to forward his list of top 10 to you, ask him, I bet it is pretty close to what you gave chuuuuck. If you want to review it with him, revamp it and resend it, PM me and that can be done Cof, attach Lindax name to the PM. Again, the people I sent them to can gather all input from their clan. Again, just curious to see how close it comes with chuuuuck's power rankings.

lol, again, I am going to use chuuuuck's power rankings as I respect that, I always have, it is awesome idea, I just wanted to see how close the top 10 clans of perceptions was alligned to his, my guess, it will be pretty much the same.

I will tell you this, Chuuuuuck's rankings are so much harder because you cannot rank your own clan. It is such a measuring stick (when you haven't been sitting at the top forever ) to see the clans that you beat or the ones that beat you or the ones that put up a hell of a fight against a clan you beat, etc., and then rank them compared to where you feel your clan is at. I tried doing it with my clan in it, but it just didn't feel right. So I deleted us right off the bat and ranked everyone from there. I went through the active and completed challenges to rank the ones that I really didn't know too much about. It was a pretty fun little exercise.

You are in my top 10, though i must say its extremely difficult to rank clans 7-13 or so for me. You think someone has an advantage but any given day one of those clans can beat another...

yeah Ljex, you certainly can rank a few clans for example number 8 if you want or you think they are all that close, others have done this and some clans may be tied with same number.

[VampireM]

This what i dont understand, this top 10 is just for the year 2010, how come everyone is ranking TSM so high? all they have played in was the clan league? dont get me wrong, there a great clan (props to my friends Sam02 and Laughingcalvier) but the clan took a long break.. and if this is just about this year how could u count them so high? just my personal opinion.. this is why i think this list fails.. people take past years into consideration and then this list is just an echo of the power rankings.. just my 2 cents

[ljex]

This what i dont understand, this top 10 is just for the year 2010, how come everyone is ranking TSM so high? all they have played in was the clan league? dont get me wrong, there a great clan (props to my friends Sam02 and Laughingcalvier) but the clan took a long break.. and if this is just about this year how could u count them so high? just my personal opinion.. this is why i think this list fails.. people take past years into consideration and then this list is just an echo of the power rankings.. just my 2 cents

they did lose 1 to thota by 1 game in 2010, didnt they?

[VampireM]

so a close loss and a current second place spot in division D is all it takes to get top 4 this year.. slow year?

[ljex]

so a close loss and a current second place spot in division D is all it takes to get top 4 this year.. slow year?

Who said 4? Also yeah i think lose by 1 game too number 1 and 2nd place to another top 5 clan means they should be in the top 5. They dont have a lot of results, but the results they do have a good.

[Lubawski]

It just sounds that TSM is THOTA dogs for filtering out incompetent clans .

We were scheduled to challenge TSM starting in November, but from what I hear, some of them are backing out because they want to battle TOFU instead. So THOTA may get the battle they want sooner rather than later.

[TheBro]

They would like that wouldn't they.

[OutSider]

It just sounds that TSM is THOTA dogs for filtering out incompetent clans .

We were scheduled to challenge TSM starting in November, but from what I hear, some of them are backing out because they want to battle TOFU instead. So THOTA may get the battle they want sooner rather than later.

We won't be begging them for it... They can come begging us for it......

[Bruceswar]

It just sounds that TSM is THOTA dogs for filtering out incompetent clans .

We were scheduled to challenge TSM starting in November, but from what I hear, some of them are backing out because they want to battle TOFU instead. So THOTA may get the battle they want sooner rather than later.

We won't be begging them for it... They can come begging us for it......

Somehow I doubt TSM will come begging for anybody.

[Seulessliathan]

It just sounds that TSM is THOTA dogs for filtering out incompetent clans .

We were scheduled to challenge TSM starting in November, but from what I hear, some of them are backing out because they want to battle TOFU instead. So THOTA may get the battle they want sooner rather than later.

We won't be begging them for it... They can come begging us for it......

i can´t remember we did anything like that yet, maybe you know our forum better than we do?


official monki declaration: atm we discuss a new clan war, and the 2 clans we discuss about with high priority are Empire and Tofu.


oh, and about these top lists: Blitz, did you ask people to rank clans for 2010? or did you ask them to make a general ranking? seems like there is some confusion about it.

[jpeter15]

It just sounds that TSM is THOTA dogs for filtering out incompetent clans .

We were scheduled to challenge TSM starting in November, but from what I hear, some of them are backing out because they want to battle TOFU instead. So THOTA may get the battle they want sooner rather than later.

We won't be begging them for it... They can come begging us for it......

i can´t remember we did anything like that yet, maybe you know our forum better than we do?


official monki declaration: atm we discuss a new clan war, and the 2 clans we discuss about with high priority are Empire and Tofu.

Not really sure where the "begging" came from but I can assure you nobody has to beg us for a challenge. We are currently discussing who we would like to face next as well as the ideal timing given the holidays. We are very receptive to facing TSM and I am sure that if both sides agree to a matchup we can get one going.

[Blitzaholic]

its for 2010 seul

This what i dont understand, this top 10 is just for the year 2010, how come everyone is ranking TSM so high?

the perceptions for 2010 have not come out yet vampire, or are you referring to chuuuuck's power rankings 6 months ago for Tsm?

It just sounds that TSM is THOTA dogs for filtering out incompetent clans .

We were scheduled to challenge TSM starting in November, but from what I hear, some of them are backing out because they want to battle TOFU instead. So THOTA may get the battle they want sooner rather than later.

WoW, I think this would be splended.

Great for the site.

[Chuuuuck]

Seul, I hope you all pick Empire, haha! (this is not begging because we can just find someone else)

But I hope to face a top clan and obviously neither THOTA or KoRT is going to happen, LoW has expressed taking a break so that isn't going to happen so you all appear to be the best candidate, although I think we may be able to arrange TOFU but it hasn't been discussed. The only other option I can see for us is IA but I haven't talked to anyone from there either, or maybe The Legion.

I would say Mythology, AoC or Nemesis but we have already beaten all three of them fairly recently.

[Blitzaholic]

Seul, I hope you all pick Empire, haha! (this is not begging because we can just find someone else)

But I hope to face a top clan and obviously neither THOTA or KoRT is going to happen, LoW has expressed taking a break so that isn't going to happen so you all appear to be the best candidate, although I think we may be able to arrange TOFU but it hasn't been discussed. The only other option I can see for us is IA but I haven't talked to anyone from there either, or maybe The Legion.

I would say Mythology, AoC or Nemesis but we have already beaten all three of them fairly recently.

what about the dragoons or ID or even Foed?

they both pretty strong clans.

[Masli]

the dragoons or ID

isn't that the same ?