[please delete] FEEDBACK COMMENT - Community moderation

[jiminski]

thank you Wicked, that is very fair.

i'll formulate some coherent conversation (if i can) tomorrow; the last few pages were derailed a touch.

Owen had a good point regarding how to deal with non English comments so i may start there.. when it's not 2 am.

[Dangerous-Die]

dolphi -

its to hard to administer/ the self adminsistration that your suggesting (ps bad spelling as i am drunk) is never gonna actually work.

however may i congratulate you on your rank sir.

regards

DD

[hulmey]

thank you Wicked, that is very fair.

i'll formulate some coherent conversation (if i can) tomorrow; the last few pages were derailed a touch.

Owen had a good point regarding how to deal with non English comments so i may start there.. when it's not 2 am.

Woot, we are back, so please discuss.

Non english comments should be automatically dismissed. This is an english speaking website and the universal language is english. Mosy of CC members mainly speak/write english, so wahts the point in leaving feedback in greek or watever language it maybe!!??!

[wicked]

This is an *international* website, which we support and promote with the international forums. Comments about feedback have always been allowed in any languange, as has everything here.

[hulmey]

This is an *international* website, which we support and promote with the international forums. Comments about feedback have always been allowed in any languange, as has everything here.

Have you ever received feedback in another language and asked to moderate on it? Poker companies are international and only allow chat in english on their products. You abuse this rule and you lose you chat priv's. Arent they more international than CC??

How did CC moderate feedback in another language before?

foxx omok - is a very bad maltese word. How can you moderate that without having employed staff?

[wicked]

If there was a complaint, we got a translation. Most people only left feedback in another language to someone who spoke that same language.

[jiminski]

If there was a complaint, we got a translation. Most people only left feedback in another language to someone who spoke that same language.

that makes sense... not much point leaving a scathing tirade if the recipient can't understand it.
So the complainant who also spoke the language made the translation, Wicked?

[PLAYER57832]

This is an *international* website, which we support and promote with the international forums. Comments about feedback have always been allowed in any languange, as has everything here.

Have you ever received feedback in another language and asked to moderate on it? Poker companies are international and only allow chat in english on their products. You abuse this rule and you lose you chat priv's. Arent they more international than CC??

How did CC moderate feedback in another language before?

foxx omok - is a very bad maltese word. How can you moderate that without having employed staff?

The only time I have seen feedback in another language is when both speakers speak that language. I believe I did so at least once, though I also wrote in English. Among other things, it was a quick way to signal that this person does speak another language (they spoke English, too).

One of the things I really like is the chance to speak a not so common language. I live in a small community and don't often get the chance. Here, I can.

HOWEVER, this does bring up a point ... I would like to see some mention in the profile of various languages and a simple fluent/ not fluent or "does not speak English". I know this causes some people to avoid others. But, in this case, I suspect that anyone who really dislikes speaking with non English speakers is probably someone those folks would just as soon avoid.
(other than in team games, that is. In team games, communication is quite important).

[jiminski]

If there was a complaint, we got a translation. Most people only left feedback in another language to someone who spoke that same language.

that makes sense... not much point leaving a scathing tirade if the recipient can't understand it.
So the complainant who also spoke the language made the translation, Wicked?

Could you let me know, when you have a moment, please Wicked? it makes a difference to how i approach possible solutions.

[hulmey]

This is an *international* website, which we support and promote with the international forums. Comments about feedback have always been allowed in any languange, as has everything here.

Have you ever received feedback in another language and asked to moderate on it? Poker companies are international and only allow chat in english on their products. You abuse this rule and you lose you chat priv's. Arent they more international than CC??

How did CC moderate feedback in another language before?

foxx omok - is a very bad maltese word. How can you moderate that without having employed staff?

The only time I have seen feedback in another language is when both speakers speak that language. I believe I did so at least once, though I also wrote in English. Among other things, it was a quick way to signal that this person does speak another language (they spoke English, too).

One of the things I really like is the chance to speak a not so common language. I live in a small community and don't often get the chance. Here, I can.

HOWEVER, this does bring up a point ... I would like to see some mention in the profile of various languages and a simple fluent/ not fluent or "does not speak English". I know this causes some people to avoid others. But, in this case, I suspect that anyone who really dislikes speaking with non English speakers is probably someone those folks would just as soon avoid.
(other than in team games, that is. In team games, communication is quite important).

LOL, english is the international language of the world. Can you peak maltese or italian? I can but write my feedback in english so everyone can understand, not just the few!!

[alster]

Concise description:

• Running alongside the rating system, allow users to write a comment (in a similar way to the old system.)
  The option would be given at the end of a game.
  Once the comment is completed, the text is forwarded to the recipient User for approval.
  if they do not approve, the comment automatically goes to either an Open Forum or Special Usergroup for adjudication (*see below for 'Forum' Description)

Specifics:

• The proposal gives ability, to all users, to add a comment at the end of a game.
  They have 24 hours to make comment on any game/player (with game-link if it regards a specific game)
  This can be anything:
  - Skill and tactics
  - It could be a friendly piece of prose for mutual enjoyment!
  
  
  The Comment is then made available to the recipient for approval prior to it being logged into their profile. They have 5 days to say ‘yes’ or ‘no’. If they fail to vote the comment will be entered into their profile.
  In special cases, live Comments can be taken back to the Forum for adjudication; to cover people going away and missing the right to veto.
  
  If they say ‘yes’, they have approved the comment and it will also be logged into their profile.
  
  If they say ‘no’, not approved, the Comment goes for arbitration by the Site in the Contentious Comment Forum. (The rules of approval need to be worked out but will mainly cover outright spiteful lies and abusive language!)
  
  Arbitration is made by CC members: the make-up and remit of which is to be discussed;
  It could be
  A) Open to all members, with a pre-forum link to the Moderation 'Forum', on the Front page after login. This will encourage those who do not normally visit the Forums to participate! *
  or
  B) Closed select group of non-mod volunteers
  
  
  
  Why will this work where the other failed?
  
  - The proposed system does not affect your Pos or Neg Rating, so it will be less contentious.
  - The recipient gets immediate right to take contentious Comments to the Community for adjudication of fairness and suitability, before anyone else sees it in their Profile.
  - If the Comments are judged by the whole site (with say 100 votes giving a judgement on 95% agreement**) on a casual anonymous basis, there is no one to shout at, no focal figure to hate.
  
  
  This will improve the following aspects of the site:
  
  • Gives opportunity to write creative, fun prose
  • Allows for people to comment on a persons Skill and be more specific about the experience
  • Could be integrated with the old style system to placate the dissenters, without the site having to commit people and resources
  
  *This is participatory Forum but with anonymous perusal and voting only. The comment Forum is 'ironically' not a place for discussion by the voters.
  So there will be no canvassing for support or bitching, it is simply a place to read and click 'yes' or 'no'.
  
  **A ceiling of votes needed to constitute an authoritative decision! For example, we could set the limit at 100 votes with 95% approval to make it a live comment.

I believe you have too much time on your hands... Why don't you just join a few games instead?

[jiminski]

Concise description:

• Running alongside the rating system, allow users to write a comment (in a similar way to the old system.)
  The option would be given at the end of a game.
  Once the comment is completed, the text is forwarded to the recipient User for approval.
  if they do not approve, the comment automatically goes to either an Open Forum or Special Usergroup for adjudication (*see below for 'Forum' Description)

Specifics:

• The proposal gives ability, to all users, to add a comment at the end of a game.
  They have 24 hours to make comment on any game/player (with game-link if it regards a specific game)
  This can be anything:
  - Skill and tactics
  - It could be a friendly piece of prose for mutual enjoyment!
  
  
  The Comment is then made available to the recipient for approval prior to it being logged into their profile. They have 5 days to say ‘yes’ or ‘no’. If they fail to vote the comment will be entered into their profile.
  In special cases, live Comments can be taken back to the Forum for adjudication; to cover people going away and missing the right to veto.
  
  If they say ‘yes’, they have approved the comment and it will also be logged into their profile.
  
  If they say ‘no’, not approved, the Comment goes for arbitration by the Site in the Contentious Comment Forum. (The rules of approval need to be worked out but will mainly cover outright spiteful lies and abusive language!)
  
  Arbitration is made by CC members: the make-up and remit of which is to be discussed;
  It could be
  A) Open to all members, with a pre-forum link to the Moderation 'Forum', on the Front page after login. This will encourage those who do not normally visit the Forums to participate! *
  or
  B) Closed select group of non-mod volunteers
  
  
  
  Why will this work where the other failed?
  
  - The proposed system does not affect your Pos or Neg Rating, so it will be less contentious.
  - The recipient gets immediate right to take contentious Comments to the Community for adjudication of fairness and suitability, before anyone else sees it in their Profile.
  - If the Comments are judged by the whole site (with say 100 votes giving a judgement on 95% agreement**) on a casual anonymous basis, there is no one to shout at, no focal figure to hate.
  
  
  This will improve the following aspects of the site:
  
  • Gives opportunity to write creative, fun prose
  • Allows for people to comment on a persons Skill and be more specific about the experience
  • Could be integrated with the old style system to placate the dissenters, without the site having to commit people and resources
  
  *This is participatory Forum but with anonymous perusal and voting only. The comment Forum is 'ironically' not a place for discussion by the voters.
  So there will be no canvassing for support or bitching, it is simply a place to read and click 'yes' or 'no'.
  
  **A ceiling of votes needed to constitute an authoritative decision! For example, we could set the limit at 100 votes with 95% approval to make it a live comment.

I believe you have too much time on your hands... Why don't you just join a few games instead?

did you vote?

[KLOBBER]

I believe you have too much time on your hands... Why don't you just join a few games instead?

:::High Five:::

[jiminski]

I believe you have too much time on your hands... Why don't you just join a few games instead?

:::High Five:::

ah you 2 should play together!

did you vote Klobby?

[jiminski]

hehe, what a sweet alliance:
AlesterGren and Klobber... brings a saline excretion to the virtual eye!

why are these 2 fine specimens allied in their hatred for Comments in feedback?
Well because they are both obnoxious and charmless? .. certainly!

But also because one is a Freestyle abuser of the worst kind, with multiple Neg feedbacks.
The other preys upon New players: only starting-up Circ Max games- in the hope that solely deadbeaters will join, giving him easy points!


beautiful .. if you two stay we may yet get some progress getting this thing through!

[KLOBBER]

::yawn::

I don't know why, but anger issues and lies bore me.

[jiminski]

::yawn::

I don't know why, but anger issues and lies bore me.

well it would be ashame if you went Klobby, as you genuinely are helping.

let's see if we can interest you a little with the below tenets-

you are trying to derail these threads becuase:

- you like the new system as you get negs and bad comments from people who you rip off.

- if people can see the way you operate, it is more difficult for you to steel points.

- you are exactly the reason we need a comment system.

[KLOBBER]

::yawn::

[jiminski]

::yawn::

Look at the gamelog and chat, in a typical KLOBBER game:

click the link


Game 2505752

Elimination Summary
2008-06-09 13:17:21 - spearce was kicked out for missing too many turns in round - 3
2008-06-10 13:17:21 - catchat4 was kicked out for missing too many turns in round - 3
2008-06-11 13:17:21 - Norris was kicked out for missing too many turns in round - 3
2008-06-12 13:17:21 - xufan1089 was kicked out for missing too many turns in round - 3
2008-06-14 13:06:45 - fireburnscold was kicked out for missing too many turns in round - 3

Game Chat
2008-06-13 15:52:44 - KLOBBER: By the way, I am in the habit of rating all members with all 5's. : )

If my words are just lies or so tiresome, why are you so obviously against the idea and yet at the same time feigning nonchalance!?

Your facade of carefree indolence of phrase makes no sense when you add up your behaviour! You come to all these threads to post no more than: "klobber says *YAWN* "

why? what practical use of your time is this if you do not believe it will ever happen?
If you do not fear it then let it run its course and die away.

The truth is that you wish to derail something you very strongly do not wish to happen.. your tool is banality and repetition. (much as your game choice)

And why do you not wish 'Comments' back, integrated alongside the Star rating?

If you read the proposal i put, It is no real stress to the average person.
I would imagine even the most avid lover of the new star rating would be in favour of further improvements and flexibility.

As i have asked you many times after your spam; Let's discuss the issue, you and I.
You do seem to care enough to visit regularly! Let us put your energy into something practical like an improvement. Rather than just calling people 'stoopid', which really is of little benefit to anyone.

Whether the idea can be made practical or not is another thing .. but you will not engage with that point. I can only assume that you do not want to make it better; that you only wish to spoil it and ruin any attempt.

You 'appear', over time, to be just a troll; baron of humour or a cohesive thought.. All you have is a kind of simplistic tenacity to trash any flow, within any thread.
But your true motivation is that you prey upon New players; you bolster your points off their innocence and move onto the next batch.
Sadly the next batch now have no protection of information regarding your 'system'!

Perhaps you could either help change that Klobby or offer an argument as to why the system would not work?

[KLOBBER]

I'm happy you're discussing me more than this lame idea, although everything you say is a lie.

[jiminski]

I happy.. talk me.. Klobber *bANG*.. *YAWN* sleepy-sleep now

Klobby makes another good point.

How does the community system cope with players capable of speaking little or no coherent English?

(in the old system, i have never seen a comment in anything other than English to be honest but it would be nice to cater)

We have all of the Individual Language Forums; with varying levels of populations.
therefore we could include a select box for the destination page for each Language Moderation as sent by the recipient of the queried comment. (each Forum has it's own little Community Mod thread to vote in)
Of course if the population is small then the number of votes for passing it as acceptable would be far fewer than in the main English language forum.

Saying this, i do think that this is a red-herring.. with Wicked playing 'devils advocate' a little!
Comments are most useful if they are all, as an unwritten rule, made in English. (i really am not arrogant about my tongue but people seem to be drawn to speaking it as a second language.)

Comment should be useful to as many people as possible and i think the sender wants that if they are bringing a flaw to the attention of people. so writing it in Welsh, though a very musical and expressive language, may not get a point shared with many minds!

[DukeToshiro]

Down with the ratings! Up with comments!!

[homes32]

so where are we standing now Jim?

[jiminski]

so where are we standing now Jim?

Well to be fair, with the addition of designated Language Comm-Mod-Comm voting thread within the individual forums (to solve multi-lingual queries prior to approval) I beleive that the the idea has stayed where it was on the front page.

Maybe we made it too good to fan the flames of further constructive discourse .. that or everyone is bored already?

[KLOBBER]

...everyone is bored already?

Very.