Make some maps seasonal to help boost their use

[grifftron]

Not gonna happen, we don't celebrate holidays here

Well, that's too bad.

I was thinking about another map, WWII Gazala. That battle was over the course of two weeks, right? Perhaps we celebrate that battle by opening it up over those two weeks every year?

lol... are you just being sarcastic? i really can't tell anymore...

[Queen_Herpes]

Not gonna happen, we don't celebrate holidays here

Well, that's too bad.

I was thinking about another map, WWII Gazala. That battle was over the course of two weeks, right? Perhaps we celebrate that battle by opening it up over those two weeks every year?

lol... are you just being sarcastic? i really can't tell anymore...

I like making people lol int he middle of the night, but, no I'm fuserious.

I really think people will get more excited about certain maps and play them more during one week of the year than they would throughout the rest of the year. It would really piss off policeboy though if we did this with the Montreal Map.

[edwinissweet]

Hm, your argument is that the map is not played enough. So could it be safe to assume that you want all maps that are not played enough (unset standarts) to be of limited use to the public?

Suggestions are meant to enhance CC. I just dont understand how this is suppossed to do that. I could see someone starting a campaign to make the limited edition maps availible year round, since in theory more options are better. But taking the map away, so that you are more excited to play it on halloween is sort of amusing. Perhaps you could take it up with the map maker and tell him what you think and present your case to him. Who knows, maybe he will see it like you do and will want his map to be seasonal. I just think this is between CC and the map maker.

[Queen_Herpes]

I think thusly:
-the more seasonal maps, the better.
-the more seasonal maps, the more players will play those maps
-the mroe seasonal maps, the more to look forward to

[grifftron]

I think thusly:
-the more seasonal maps, the better.
-the more seasonal maps, the more players will play those maps
-the mroe seasonal maps, the more to look forward to

I too like seasonal maps, but why not just make a different Halloweener map? Just like Andy said, Halloween Hallows was NOT meant to be a seasonal map, so make a new one... other maps are in the process of the map foundry like the Christmas one... they just are hard projects and take time...

-griff

[AAFitz]

Well, its clear you enjoy making suggestions to allow less options for players and giving CC less maps, but we at CC enjoy the massive variety, and suggest that if you do not enjoy playing certain maps at certain times, that you refrain from doing so.

If fact, I suggest you play whatever maps you want, whenever you want, instead of suggesting what maps we enjoy playing them, or when we should be allowed to play them.

Perhaps a suggestion to achieve your supposed objective of it being played more often, is to make more halloween hallows tourneys around the time of halloween. No doubt more will play the map then, and the rest of the time, players can practice on it at will. No harm done, objective achieved, and no one inconvenienced or limited in any way.

[TheForgivenOne]

We already have a suggestion asking to unlock all "seasonal" maps because everyone likes playing them too much. I don't think you are going to get a majority of people agreeing with this.

[Queen_Herpes]

I think thusly:
-the more seasonal maps, the better.
-the more seasonal maps, the more players will play those maps
-the mroe seasonal maps, the more to look forward to

I too like seasonal maps, but why not just make a different Halloweener map? Just like Andy said, Halloween Hallows was NOT meant to be a seasonal map, so make a new one... other maps are in the process of the map foundry like the Christmas one... they just are hard projects and take time...

-griff

you continue to amaze me. Perhaps I should play another speedy with you? But lets make sure it isn't a seasonal map. Then we can pine for it for a few months.

[Woodruff]

I like seasonal maps and the ability to play them at only certain times of the year. Please block Halloween Hallows until Halloween. I think I'm one of the few, the proud, who will play it from time-to-time anyways.
Concise description:

• Clear from above

Specifics/Details:

• Clear from above

How this will benefit the site and/or other comments:

• Gives another map to look forward to
• Encourages mapmakers to come up with other seasonal maps

note: Please lock up World Cup as planned. Perhaps open it once a year in summer as four years is a long time to wait for our European friends.

1) If you want another map to look forward to for yourself, you can manually limit yourself from playing that map except when you consider it seasonal. By doing so, you will be able to more "look forward to" the map and yet the rest of us won't be kept from playing it..

2) You believe that making a map LESS playable will cause mapmakers to want to make more of them? I can't say that I follow your logic there.

[cairnswk]

Not gonna happen, we don't celebrate holidays here

Well, that's too bad.

I was thinking about another map, WWII Gazala. That battle was over the course of two weeks, right? Perhaps we celebrate that battle by opening it up over those two weeks every year?

OK, my turn to comment.

Queen_Herpes, I can understand where you are coming from calling for seasonal maps.

This concept i recall was briefly mentioned when Halloween Hollows was being developed, however, it is now too far back to recall the outcome and I am not going to back track to search for that.

Halloween Hollows was developed very specifically towards the Holloween theme, but it was also developed with all the graveyards, witch etc aspects (ghoolish aspects) as a map to show other mapmakers to think outside the normal square for subject matter for maps. In fact many of my maps were developed for this reason.

At the time of devlopment, there were no seasonal maps in play, and some of these came into being without the knowledge of any of the mapmakers in the foundry, and certainly without their participation. This still continues i beleive.

I went through the foundry process, as did all my maps, and while i think it is a good idea to have some seasonal maps, I am not in favour of having any of my maps, whether they commemorate battle anniversaries or otherwise, in this seasonal grouping.

I wish Halloween Hollows to remain as a map that can be played all year round, and if CC wishes to celebrate Halloween with use of that map for a week of festivities, i will not stop that process, but will give it my support.

[Army of GOD]

HE HATH SPOKEN

Time to lock 'er down and then stick a match in her so the memories of this thread burn away with it.

[Queen_Herpes]

1) If you want another map to look forward to for yourself, you can manually limit yourself from playing that map except when you consider it seasonal. By doing so, you will be able to more "look forward to" the map and yet the rest of us won't be kept from playing it..

2) You believe that making a map LESS playable will cause mapmakers to want to make more of them? I can't say that I follow your logic there.

1) Certainly I can do this. This is also a good argument for those players who are opposed to adding more game options.

2) Let me explain:

There are some maps on conquerclub that are rarely played. Some of those, IMO, are fun to play.
Nothing is done to encourage players to play those maps.

Why not?
There is virtually zero marketing done to existing members of conquerclub for any purpose. Have you been encouraged via targeted marketing to bring new players to the site? Have you been hit with advertisements for particular maps? No maps are highlighted on the map list (except for Beta Maps with that big red BETA printed across the map icons and they are grouped at the bottom of the map list.) Little stuff, basic, could be done. Shoot an automated PM to a player who plays a lot of feudal empire to let him know about feudal epic or WWII Poland. Both maps that use "castles" as an origin, like feudal. But this isn't done, no big deal. One map per day could be highlighted on the map list as the "map of the day" or something. Again, not done...and no big deal. There are, what, 9 maps that cycle through the flash display on the homepage of conquerclub? Same nine since I've been here. This is the extent of advertisement on this site. And don't get me started on the external marketing.

My suggestion here is an attempt to create a buzz about some of the maps that rarely get played.

A buzz can be created. Woodruff, you're a teacher, so you're probably familiar with Pokemon and Heelys. Both
of those companies created artificial lack of inventory for their products. They limited distribution, controlled when the retailers could let inventory out to the shelves, and created first a "buzz" about these products that no one could get their hands on. Next a "frenzy" was created once limited inventory was released in targeted locations. The belief is that neither Pokemon cards nor Heelys shoes would have sold as many units had these ploys not been pushed forward.

I'm hoping to do the same thing for some of the maps here on conquerclub. Lackattack probably fears shelving some of the maps. There is a lot to be said, though, about the overabundance, cognitive dissonance, overuse and predator confusion aspects of choosing a map to play. This has a little bit to do with my suggestion to limit new recruits, and perhaps I should include this reasoning in that suggestion as well. Essentially, we are all predators looking for a target: a map. The first issue we face is the overabundance of maps and predator confusion. Though it is a "target rich environment," having too many targets can lead to the type of confusion a wildlife predator faces when confronting a herd or school. I don't like playing the same map over and over again. I find it difficult at times to select just the right map. Sometimes, cognitive dissonance has an effect for maps that I've either lost on or frequently won on. I believe this happens to other players as well. The new map guides should help with that, though. Then I have to weed through the maps that are played the most, because, well, we all play those maps a lot and we're all kind of tired of them. Interested in playing an Assdoodle? How about Classic? I mean, if no one else is online at 2am and the only open game is a 1v1 speed classic, I guess I'll do it.

This suggestion is about creating a buzz over one or more maps. Close them up and make them seasonal. Leave them locked up most of the year, and let people pine for them to be unlocked for one or two weeks each year. Heck, it could be like Discovery Channel's "Shark Week" (in case you needed another example.) I, for one, look forward to "Shark Week" every year. I think I would get sick of watching shows about sharks (in the background of course, while playing at conquerclub) every day of the year.

I figured I'd start with Halloween Hallows. It has a name and map subject matter that fits for Halloween. I believe if it were locked up, players would (at first) complain. A lot of these players would be players who had never played, rarely played, or not recently played the map. No matter who they were, "buzz" has begun. If locked up now, there would be some controversy and discussion through August and September. I'm haven't missed the fact that I'm somewhat of a pariah to enough of the members who read the forums here and my username connotes a relationship to King_Herpes which also brings some controversy to the players who stick to games. [If I had a nickel for everytime someone asked me "How's the King?" int he game chat...] The fact that I am the one who made the suggestion will also be controversial and create more "buzz." Then the map gets unlocked October 1st and open thru November 30th. (Good choice of dates methinks as Halloween falls smack in the middle.) On October first, there will be a lot of players playing it. I think Halloween Hallows will be used as a map for more games during October and November than it has been from July 23, 2009 until Today, July 22, 2010. The frenzy would begin and perhaps some tournametn directors would anticipate the unlocking of the map and plan ahead for some tournaments that include Halloween Hallows to start on October 1st. Then there is the annual free speed on Halloween Hallows that lackattack inevitably offers to freemiums around Halloween. More frenzy. On November 30th, someone will suggest that Halloween Hallows should be kept open all year and the whole buzz cycle will begin again. At that point...the new Christmas map will be opened. Out of respect for Orthodox Christmas (late January) I'd suggest the Christmas map be open from December 1st thru January 31st. blah, blah, blah...

What do you think?

[Incandenza]

There's no point in debating this, since you'd have to get the mapmaker's permission, which clearly is not forthcoming in the case of HH.

[Doc_Brown]

QH: You're clearly not getting much support on this idea. I'd have to side with those that feel that restricting access does not increase enjoyability (as I've said in the threads about some of your other suggestions). That said, I follow your point. There are maps on the site that are probably far less popular, and because they remain relatively obscure, people can't find many games on those maps. Instead of restricting maps to certain times of the year, why not have a "map of the month" event that highlights a specific unpopular map (maybe one from the bottom 1/3 in terms of recent games started). I'm not sure exactly how this could work, though you've got the creativity to come up with a full concept for how this might play out. Perhaps it could include contests (though with 12 additional contests per year, it might devalue the contest winner medal, but there might be other rewards that would be suitable), special interview with the map creator, etc... I think that would create at least as much buzz about the unpopular maps as would restricting access to them, and that excitement would carry over for some time after the event (much like the World Cup map is still fairly popular).

[Queen_Herpes]

QH: You're clearly not getting much support on this idea. I'd have to side with those that feel that restricting access does not increase enjoyability (as I've said in the threads about some of your other suggestions). That said, I follow your point. There are maps on the site that are probably far less popular, and because they remain relatively obscure, people can't find many games on those maps. Instead of restricting maps to certain times of the year, why not have a "map of the month" event that highlights a specific unpopular map (maybe one from the bottom 1/3 in terms of recent games started). I'm not sure exactly how this could work, though you've got the creativity to come up with a full concept for how this might play out. Perhaps it could include contests (though with 12 additional contests per year, it might devalue the contest winner medal, but there might be other rewards that would be suitable), special interview with the map creator, etc... I think that would create at least as much buzz about the unpopular maps as would restricting access to them, and that excitement would carry over for some time after the event (much like the World Cup map is still fairly popular).

If a map isn't getting played...then pushing it to seasonal can't hurt it. The buzz created by moving it to seasonal will be enough to generate interest, then there will be a frenzy of playing that happens when the map is "active" during its "season." I firmly believe that many of the lesser-played maps will get more play (total number of games played on that map) in a one or two month "season" than it will being left to collect dust on the "always-available" map list. I'm not sure what the plan is for the maps that no one plays. Will they eventually be shelved forever? By moving a lesser-played map to seasonal, if no buzz is created, and no one cares that it isn't available, that might mean the map could be put away forever or until more interest is generated in seeing it an active map again.

I was led here by your comment on my new suggestion about map-of-the-day. Not sure who posted first, but I'd been tossing this idea around for a few weeks. I like the idea of contests associated with map-of-the-day and might incorporate that into my suggestion. The point is to create buzz and help pick up maps that have fallen off.

[TheForgivenOne]

QH: You're clearly not getting much support on this idea. I'd have to side with those that feel that restricting access does not increase enjoyability (as I've said in the threads about some of your other suggestions). That said, I follow your point. There are maps on the site that are probably far less popular, and because they remain relatively obscure, people can't find many games on those maps. Instead of restricting maps to certain times of the year, why not have a "map of the month" event that highlights a specific unpopular map (maybe one from the bottom 1/3 in terms of recent games started). I'm not sure exactly how this could work, though you've got the creativity to come up with a full concept for how this might play out. Perhaps it could include contests (though with 12 additional contests per year, it might devalue the contest winner medal, but there might be other rewards that would be suitable), special interview with the map creator, etc... I think that would create at least as much buzz about the unpopular maps as would restricting access to them, and that excitement would carry over for some time after the event (much like the World Cup map is still fairly popular).

If a map isn't getting played...then pushing it to seasonal can't hurt it. The buzz created by moving it to seasonal will be enough to generate interest, then there will be a frenzy of playing that happens when the map is "active" during its "season." I firmly believe that many of the lesser-played maps will get more play (total number of games played on that map) in a one or two month "season" than it will being left to collect dust on the "always-available" map list. I'm not sure what the plan is for the maps that no one plays. Will they eventually be shelved forever? By moving a lesser-played map to seasonal, if no buzz is created, and no one cares that it isn't available, that might mean the map could be put away forever or until more interest is generated in seeing it an active map again.

I was led here by your comment on my new suggestion about map-of-the-day. Not sure who posted first, but I'd been tossing this idea around for a few weeks. I like the idea of contests associated with map-of-the-day and might incorporate that into my suggestion. The point is to create buzz and help pick up maps that have fallen off.

But the point is, you do not have the consent of the mapmaker to make this map a seasonal map. Since you already started up a new thread for Map of the day/Month, i will be moving this to Rejected.

[Queen_Herpes]

QH: You're clearly not getting much support on this idea. I'd have to side with those that feel that restricting access does not increase enjoyability (as I've said in the threads about some of your other suggestions). That said, I follow your point. There are maps on the site that are probably far less popular, and because they remain relatively obscure, people can't find many games on those maps. Instead of restricting maps to certain times of the year, why not have a "map of the month" event that highlights a specific unpopular map (maybe one from the bottom 1/3 in terms of recent games started). I'm not sure exactly how this could work, though you've got the creativity to come up with a full concept for how this might play out. Perhaps it could include contests (though with 12 additional contests per year, it might devalue the contest winner medal, but there might be other rewards that would be suitable), special interview with the map creator, etc... I think that would create at least as much buzz about the unpopular maps as would restricting access to them, and that excitement would carry over for some time after the event (much like the World Cup map is still fairly popular).

If a map isn't getting played...then pushing it to seasonal can't hurt it. The buzz created by moving it to seasonal will be enough to generate interest, then there will be a frenzy of playing that happens when the map is "active" during its "season." I firmly believe that many of the lesser-played maps will get more play (total number of games played on that map) in a one or two month "season" than it will being left to collect dust on the "always-available" map list. I'm not sure what the plan is for the maps that no one plays. Will they eventually be shelved forever? By moving a lesser-played map to seasonal, if no buzz is created, and no one cares that it isn't available, that might mean the map could be put away forever or until more interest is generated in seeing it an active map again.

I was led here by your comment on my new suggestion about map-of-the-day. Not sure who posted first, but I'd been tossing this idea around for a few weeks. I like the idea of contests associated with map-of-the-day and might incorporate that into my suggestion. The point is to create buzz and help pick up maps that have fallen off.

But the point is, you do not have the consent of the mapmaker to make this map a seasonal map. Since you already started up a new thread for Map of the day/Month, i will be moving this to Rejected.

Hold your horses there tiger. Go ahead and move it on back...You haven't read the following post regarding copyright:
viewtopic.php?f=127&t=122416
viewtopic.php?f=127&t=122416

While I respect the perspective of the mapmaker, ultimately it is a conquerclub decision to use the map how it chooses.

So, thank you for moving it back to active suggestions...

[TheForgivenOne]

And you clearly don't have much support for this thread. I've seen threads asking for all Seasonal maps become full time maps. So i am pretty sure you won't be getting enough support for this to happen. As i saw way more support in the thread asking all seasonal maps become open all year round.

[Queen_Herpes]

And you clearly don't have much support for this thread. I've seen threads asking for all Seasonal maps become full time maps. So i am pretty sure you won't be getting enough support for this to happen. As i saw way more support in the thread asking all seasonal maps become open all year round.

First post 3 days ago. There are many more suggestions out there that haven't been sent to rejected on the whim of a moderator and are languishing in the pages and pages of suggestions. It is the right thing to do to put a 3-day-old suggestion back out for review. Or are all suggestions that go without comment for 3 days, now dead?

Kindly move it back. The original reason for moving it was flawed based on a lack of a read of the copyright announcement on your part. This new reason "I'm prety sure you won't be getting enough support for this to happen" is hardly reason to shelve a suggestion.

[TheForgivenOne]

I'll move it back out, but here's my view. People are already complaining enough about maps that are seasonal. I've seen people harp and complain so much about when the St. Patty's day went back down, and now people were doing it when the World Cup map went down. Now all this is going to do is get more people complaining about this map if it is moved to a seasonal. PLUS CC already used this map with Halloween last year, so more than likely they will do it again. So i don't see a reason as to why we should move it to be a Seasonal. And about moving more maps like the WW maps, i don't agree with that either. People are arguing more and more that they want more choice. Well this will hinder their choice of maps.

[Queen_Herpes]

I'll move it back out, but here's my view. People are already complaining enough about maps that are seasonal. I've seen people harp and complain so much about when the St. Patty's day went back down, and now people were doing it when the World Cup map went down. Now all this is going to do is get more people complaining about this map if it is moved to a seasonal. PLUS CC already used this map with Halloween last year, so more than likely they will do it again. So i don't see a reason as to why we should move it to be a Seasonal. And about moving more maps like the WW maps, i don't agree with that either. People are arguing more and more that they want more choice. Well this will hinder their choice of maps.

Thank you for moving it back out. Now, I'm thinking that the "complaining about maps that are seasonal" is enough to start this whole buzz thing. While people are complaining about choice, yes, I understand that; however, there are maps (like Halloween Hallows) that hardly anyone plays. Ever since I posted this thread, there have been 3 games started on this map. And that is just a guess, I will need to look to check the dates the games were started, I just guessed based on the game numbers. I know I've played it recently, but there are hardly a lot of players out there like me who play just about every map as much as possible. Most players stick to the same maps. Since all the maps are available (except St. Patrick's and World Cup) I can scarely understand the concern over a "lack of choice."

Create more buzz about this...and there will be a frenzy when the map is unleashed into its season of play. Maps will be played more often (if they are good enough) during their "season" than they would otherwise be played all year long. And if no one plays during its season? Then maybe the map shoudl be retired?

[cairnswk]

...
Hold your horses there tiger. Go ahead and move it on back...You haven't read the following post regarding copyright:
viewtopic.php?f=127&t=122416
viewtopic.php?f=127&t=122416

While I respect the perspective of the mapmaker, ultimately it is a conquerclub decision to use the map how it chooses.

So, thank you for moving it back to active suggestions...

Queen_Herpes.
Below is this copyright.

Copyright
While many people contribute towards development of a map, it is the graphical artist who has recognised ownership of the map imagery, and must agree to the the following copyright agreement upon quenching:

The author retains copyright on their work, and gives Conquer Club permission to use the imagery free of charge, for as long as Conquer Club sees fit on the Conquer Club website. Conquer Club cannot sell, lease, or lend the right to use the images to anyone else. The author swears that their map is their own work, or a legal derivative work and by submitting it, do hereby claim all responsibility for that being true.

The phrase "the author retains copyright on their work, and gives Conquer Club permission to use the imagery free of charge, for as long as Conquer Club sees fit on the Conquer Club website" does not mean or imply that CC can do what they want with it.
My interpretation of this is It only means that CC can use the map for as long as they deem it to be viable map for CC. It doesn't say anything about or imply that CC can do what it wants with the map within the term of use of the map.
Once again, i have said that CC can use the HH map, but I don't want it to become a seasonal map, since it went through the Foundry Process to become an all year map.

EDIT:
Further to this...you claim (a guess from what i read) about only three games being started since you started you you posted this thread is incorrect.

This thread started 2010/7/20 8:30am
There have been 16 games created since your posting.
Game 7333331 initialized 2010/7/20 12:32, was the first of these 16, and there have been 9 Tournament games created within these 16 games.

[Queen_Herpes]

Yes, I didn't count the 9 tournament games as they were tournaments for "All of CC" or something like that.

I respect everything that you have done and everything that you have written. I think that making a map a seasonal map will cause the map to be played, chosen, used, etc. much more often - specifically for maps that are currently low on the usage scale. While Halloween Hallows may (for whatever reason) not become the first map to go from full-time to seasonal AND perhaps no map will ever go from full-time to seasonal, I think it is with the best interest of the site to consider converting some of the lesser-played maps to a seasonal format. Recall the buzz that was created when Pearl Harbor was converted and the bonuses were reconfigured. Seemed to me like there was a lot of conversation about the map and I played it more than usual during that time. I'm certain there was a lot more play on that map during that time.

The site, in general, lacks any internal marketing and similarly any directional signage. You and your maps could benefit from a variety of strategies to get more people to play the maps. Ultimately, the goal is to cause more people to play the map, right?

[Denise]

Nah, this map and all maps meant for all year play should be left as is. The large choice of maps adds to the enjoyment of the game, and taking away those choices, even temporarily, will detract from it. The mapmakers wishes should be taken into consideration, in fact he/she should be given last word on the matter. Otherwise, why would he have the incentive to make more maps?

[Queen_Herpes]

Nah, this map and all maps meant for all year play should be left as is. The large choice of maps adds to the enjoyment of the game, and taking away those choices, even temporarily, will detract from it. The mapmakers wishes should be taken into consideration, in fact he/she should be given last word on the matter. Otherwise, why would he have the incentive to make more maps?

I'll address the "incentive to make more maps" part of your comment:

Making a map is a huge part of this site. However, no matter how much concerned time is put in by the mapmaker, coders, foundry, and community, the map (even if it makes it through final forge and beta) may just be uninteresting to play. It certainly is possible. There are plenty of maps out there that, well, just don't seem to get played. It doesn't mean the mapmaker should be faulted, but mapmakers should realize that having an abundance of unused maps out there isn't a great "choice" for the users. By pushing a map to "seasonal" there could be more attention given to that map. Of course, this is a possibility and not a guarantee.

If the map gets more attention and more use as a seasonal map, wouldn't that be better for the map? And if it is better for the map, and the map gets more use, wouldn't the mapmaker be happy with that? If I make a map and I think it is the coolest and funnest and most interesting map to play, but it only gets played in tournaments titled "The every map on CC Tournament" and rarely otherwise, I'm probably going to recognize that the map just didn't have the staying power that I hoped it would have. If my map gets moved to seasonal and suddenly, for whatever reason, some attention gets paid to it and people start playing it more often, I would be happy and I think the contributors to the map would also be satisfied.

Here is an example of a map that I really like and I try to make sure I start speed games on:

Gilgamesh
Total games: 3117
% of Total games played on site: 3117/6210390 = .05% of all games ever played
Total maps on the site: 162 (including betas)
If all things were equal and all maps came out at the same time each map would be played in 6210390 total games 38,335 times for a percentage of .62%
Remove Classic from the mix (1618881 games) and out of 4591509 games each map would be played 28,1518 times for a percentage of 1.76%
Gilgamesh is played considerably less than the ideal average game. The map has only been around for about one year. It has been played in roughly 10 games per day. Gilgamesh has a low "seasonability" from my perspective because there isn't a "season" of the year that correlates to Gilgamesh. While Gilgamesh could really benefit from some additional marketing and attention, I'm not sure how to make that happen.