[Rules] Drop from all awaiting games after missed turn

[Metsfanmax]

I think you are off your rocker . How can you say that things come up to miss a turn, but that you should be dropped from games that you have an absolute minimum of 24 hours to take your turn in, and that's if they start right when you miss the turn. I mean, what, you have to work late then go out for dinner and a movie, and don't get home till midnight or later, and you had only taken your turns through 11 PM. Therefore you missed turns for an hour, but you're back in PLENTY of time to take any turns from games that had not yet started.

IMO, you've had a very narrow viewpoint in all of your suggestions QH. It's great that you're trying to improve the site, and many of your sugs are good, but it seems to me that whenever someone disagrees with you, you fail to understand/consider their point of view. People miss turns, and they are not point dumping or "using deferred troops to their advantage", it's very often that they just had a busy day or whatever, CC is not #1 on everyone's priority list.

Punishments for something like a missed turn should not spread across games, you should only get punished in that one game.

If people truly view it as a punishment, then perhaps this can be an option for players. Personally, I would rather take the chance that I'll occasionally get dropped from games against my will, if it means I never have to worry about games starting that I, for whatever reason, can't participate in. But if there's active resistance to the idea, as there seems to be, perhaps it can be made optional.

Again, I think all these problems would be resolved if we limited this to speed games only. jrh is right - in the majority of circumstances this is going to end up being a major annoyance a lot more than it will save you some games, and even if I'm still willing to go for it, there's no sense in taking the time to code it if only a few players will take advantage of it.

[Queen_Herpes]

JRH,
I agree about the casual games. Maybe I will remove that part and restrict this to speed games. I also noticed you commented about the need to amend the deferred troops. I just don't know, though. If we get rid of deferred troops, is that not a similar issue when compared to dropping players from awaiting casual games? I'm not narrow minded with this one, its unfortunately a very black and white issue. Something, ultimately, needs to be done about the missed turn benefits. This is one way to do it...the other way is to get rid of deferred troops...what do you say?

[jrh_cardinal]

JRH,
I agree about the casual games. Maybe I will remove that part and restrict this to speed games. I also noticed you commented about the need to amend the deferred troops. I just don't know, though. If we get rid of deferred troops, is that not a similar issue when compared to dropping players from awaiting casual games? I'm not narrow minded with this one, its unfortunately a very black and white issue. Something, ultimately, needs to be done about the missed turn benefits. This is one way to do it...the other way is to get rid of deferred troops...what do you say?

I say deferred troops because you missed the turn in that game, and therefore should suffer in that game only. Thank you for listening to me and I'm sorry I came on so strong, in your last post you just sounded a little...harsh? narrow minded? something like that


Perhaps this should replace the 10 speed game max? I know that was not the original purpose of this suggestion, but the goals of the two are the same and it seems to me this would appease the mageplunka's of the world who like to have 15-20 or more speed games all joining at once. Then they can play to their hearts content, but anyone trying to point dump still won't be able to (as much), because they'll be dropped from all of their games as soon as they miss a turn in one.

[TheForgivenOne]

JRH,
I agree about the casual games. Maybe I will remove that part and restrict this to speed games. I also noticed you commented about the need to amend the deferred troops. I just don't know, though. If we get rid of deferred troops, is that not a similar issue when compared to dropping players from awaiting casual games? I'm not narrow minded with this one, its unfortunately a very black and white issue. Something, ultimately, needs to be done about the missed turn benefits. This is one way to do it...the other way is to get rid of deferred troops...what do you say?

I say deferred troops because you missed the turn in that game, and therefore should suffer in that game only. Thank you for listening to me and I'm sorry I came on so strong, in your last post you just sounded a little...harsh? narrow minded? something like that


Perhaps this should replace the 10 speed game max? I know that was not the original purpose of this suggestion, but the goals of the two are the same and it seems to me this would appease the mageplunka's of the world who like to have 15-20 or more speed games all joining at once. Then they can play to their hearts content, but anyone trying to point dump still won't be able to (as much), because they'll be dropped from all of their games as soon as they miss a turn in one.

Where have you been?

In any case, we explored some alternatives to curb point dumping without impacting as many users as we originally did with the lower limit. Nothing came to fruition, however, and we've turned everything back to what it was previously this weekend.

[jrh_cardinal]

JRH,
I agree about the casual games. Maybe I will remove that part and restrict this to speed games. I also noticed you commented about the need to amend the deferred troops. I just don't know, though. If we get rid of deferred troops, is that not a similar issue when compared to dropping players from awaiting casual games? I'm not narrow minded with this one, its unfortunately a very black and white issue. Something, ultimately, needs to be done about the missed turn benefits. This is one way to do it...the other way is to get rid of deferred troops...what do you say?

I say deferred troops because you missed the turn in that game, and therefore should suffer in that game only. Thank you for listening to me and I'm sorry I came on so strong, in your last post you just sounded a little...harsh? narrow minded? something like that


Perhaps this should replace the 10 speed game max? I know that was not the original purpose of this suggestion, but the goals of the two are the same and it seems to me this would appease the mageplunka's of the world who like to have 15-20 or more speed games all joining at once. Then they can play to their hearts content, but anyone trying to point dump still won't be able to (as much), because they'll be dropped from all of their games as soon as they miss a turn in one.

Where have you been?

In any case, we explored some alternatives to curb point dumping without impacting as many users as we originally did with the lower limit. Nothing came to fruition, however, and we've turned everything back to what it was previously this weekend.

oh, wow, where is that? and how did I miss it
edit- found it, I'm still surprised I missed it before

ok, well I still say this may be a good way to replace it

we explored some alternatives to curb point dumping

I think this would fall under an alternative to curb point dumping

[Masli]

What about :

1. Speed games, miss 1 turn : drop all waiting speed games
2. 24 games, miss 3 turns : drop all 24 hour games except private and tournament games

[MrBenn]

What about :

1. Speed games, miss 1 turn : drop all waiting speed games
2. 24 games, miss 3 turns : drop all 24 hour games except private and tournament games

That sounds good to me.

[Queen_Herpes]

What about :

1. Speed games, miss 1 turn : drop all waiting speed games
2. 24 games, miss 3 turns : drop all 24 hour games except private and tournament games

1. agreed
2. if you miss 3 turns in 24 hours games (I'm assuming you mean consecutive) then you've been gone from the site without a sitter for 72 hours (3 full days) 72 hours could really ruin those private and tournament games and probably represents that you are either never coming back or it will be a good long time until you do return. You wouldn't want those private games and tournament games to be dropped? I would think that this would be better:

Casual, miss 1 turn, dropped from all games except private and tournament. Then, miss 2 turns, dropped from all private and tournament games.

[Metsfanmax]

What about :

1. Speed games, miss 1 turn : drop all waiting speed games
2. 24 games, miss 3 turns : drop all 24 hour games except private and tournament games

1. agreed
2. if you miss 3 turns in 24 hours games (I'm assuming you mean consecutive) then you've been gone from the site without a sitter for 72 hours (3 full days) 72 hours could really ruin those private and tournament games and probably represents that you are either never coming back or it will be a good long time until you do return. You wouldn't want those private games and tournament games to be dropped? I would think that this would be better:

Casual, miss 1 turn, dropped from all games except private and tournament. Then, miss 2 turns, dropped from all private and tournament games.

The problem with dropping tournament games was elicited above. For the sake of the tournament, it's better to have the game started with a deadbeat than for the TO to have to find a replacement for the match.

[Masli]

don't think we should make a difference between speed and 24 hour games that way!

A lot of players miss turns during the weekend, 48 hours could be to short for them sometimes !

[Queen_Herpes]

What about :

1. Speed games, miss 1 turn : drop all waiting speed games
2. 24 games, miss 3 turns : drop all 24 hour games except private and tournament games

1. agreed
2. if you miss 3 turns in 24 hours games (I'm assuming you mean consecutive) then you've been gone from the site without a sitter for 72 hours (3 full days) 72 hours could really ruin those private and tournament games and probably represents that you are either never coming back or it will be a good long time until you do return. You wouldn't want those private games and tournament games to be dropped? I would think that this would be better:

Casual, miss 1 turn, dropped from all games except private and tournament. Then, miss 2 turns, dropped from all private and tournament games.

The problem with dropping tournament games was elicited above. For the sake of the tournament, it's better to have the game started with a deadbeat than for the TO to have to find a replacement for the match.

Understood, perhaps, then, tournament games can be made to never be dropped. The remainder of the games, however...should be. Are Clan Wars games private games or tournament games? Doesn't really matter. If someone is in a clan, they will have a sitter. If someone is in a private game, they play enough to establish a sitter. Therefore, 1 missed casual turn should result in dropping all games except tournament games.

[Masli]

At this moment clan games are private games.

Everybody can miss a turn sometimes, so dropping all for 1 missed turn in a casual game is ridiculous.

A lot of players miss turns during the weekend, 48 hours could be to short for them sometimes !

Why do you want it to be 1 and not 3. You haven't convinced me why it should be 1.

Don't get me wrong, it annoys me a lot when they start missing turns.

[lord voldemort]

if this was to ever happen it should not effect pvt and tourny games...
I know for a fact i miss turns every now and then. Im in an unique situation in a different time zone and less than a handful of people can sit for me. It would be the most annoying to have games drop at all. Let alone important ones like pvt and tourny.

[jrh_cardinal]

if this was to ever happen it should not effect pvt and tourny games...
I know for a fact i miss turns every now and then. Im in an unique situation in a different time zone and less than a handful of people can sit for me. It would be the most annoying to have games drop at all. Let alone important ones like pvt and tourny.

agreed, 99% of the time people miss turns it's just an honest mistake. You should get "punished" in the game that you missed a turn in, and only the game you missed a turn in.

I would be good with Masli's idea though, if you get kicked out of a game for missing turns then you get dropped from waiting games. There's no reason to miss three turns in a row.

[lord voldemort]

thats a better idea.
although i have seen people deadbeat out of build games. And stalemate games and speed games that they cant no longer play

[jrh_cardinal]

although i have seen people deadbeat out of build games. And stalemate games and speed games that they cant no longer play

hmm...i don't like build games, but you're right. I think speed games are already going to be separate (if you miss a turn in a speed game, you get dropped from waiting speed games, casual is obviously still being debated ), but stalemate/build games are a plausible reason to deadbeat.

deadbeating is considered a bad thing though, right? I understand that you may not like taking your 200th turn in one game, the last 150 of which have been deploy and end every time, but according to site rules, deadbeating is not a justified method of getting out of a game. Therefore, I still think it would be an acceptable "punishment" to be dropped from all waiting public games if you deadbeat out of a game.

[Timminz]

A single missed turn is far too quick. Perhaps this would be a better suggestion for when someone misses 3 turns consecutively.

For speed games, this won't work, because that means 15 minutes will have passed, so those games will have dropped on their own.

That's fine by me. In my opinion, it's absolutely unnecessary to boot people after a single miss. Perhaps this could be a setting on one's profile. A checkbox reading, "drop me from waiting games upon missed turn" maybe. I , for one, would never check that box, and I would be quite upset if I started getting dropped from my waiting games every time I missed a turn because I got caught up in the forums in between turns, or some such.

I think you are off your rocker.

And I think you're unreasonable, and overly-stubborn. Fortunately for us both, our personal opinions of each other have absolutely no bearing on this.

Here's my perspective (for those who care to see more than their own). I like to play the occasional large standard speed games. These can take quite a while to fill sometimes, and often I will play some speed 1v1's in the meantime. Occasionally I will get distracted from the game for more than 5 minutes (phone call, visitors, reading the forums/some other website).

If this suggestion were implemented (including only a single miss, rather than complete deadbeatery), it would significantly reduce my ability to enjoy my games, and that's why I'm against it. Go figure.

Edit to add:

I think speed games are already going to be separate (if you miss a turn in a speed game, you get dropped from waiting speed games, casual is obviously still being debated ), but stalemate/build games are a plausible reason to deadbeat.

I don't understand the opinion that someone should be dropped if they don't play for 5 minutes, but that we should be more cautious about the 24-hour period.

It's 5 freaking minutes, for crying out loud.

[Timminz]

And really, how big a problem would this even solve?

[lord voldemort]

And really, how big a problem would this even solve?

i agree...if it aint broke why fix it?
i dont think this is a massive issue

[Queen_Herpes]

Here's my perspective (for those who care to see more than their own). I like to play the occasional large standard speed games. These can take quite a while to fill sometimes, and often I will play some speed 1v1's in the meantime. Occasionally I will get distracted from the game for more than 5 minutes (phone call, visitors, reading the forums/some other website).

If this suggestion were implemented (including only a single miss, rather than complete deadbeatery), it would significantly reduce my ability to enjoy my games, and that's why I'm against it. Go figure.

I don't understand the opinion that someone should be dropped if they don't play for 5 minutes, but that we should be more cautious about the 24-hour period. It's 5 freaking minutes, for crying out loud.

You do understand that we are not asking to kick you from the game you are playing, right? The way I read your response, it sounds as though you think we want you to be kicked out of a game that has started. To be clear, that is not what we want. What we are looking for is a method to kick you from the games that haven't started yet.

This is massively important for players when either the site goes down, the connection is lost, or when life comes up. If a player cannot get to conquerclub.com to exit those games, it makes for a bad experience for those who start the game and needlessly tallies a loss and lost points to a player who (for whatever reason) couldn't make it to drop those awaiting games.

[Timminz]

Here's my perspective (for those who care to see more than their own). I like to play the occasional large standard speed games. These can take quite a while to fill sometimes, and often I will play some speed 1v1's in the meantime. Occasionally I will get distracted from the game for more than 5 minutes (phone call, visitors, reading the forums/some other website).

If this suggestion were implemented (including only a single miss, rather than complete deadbeatery), it would significantly reduce my ability to enjoy my games, and that's why I'm against it. Go figure.

I don't understand the opinion that someone should be dropped if they don't play for 5 minutes, but that we should be more cautious about the 24-hour period. It's 5 freaking minutes, for crying out loud.

You do understand that we are not asking to kick you from the game you are playing, right? The way I read your response, it sounds as though you think we want you to be kicked out of a game that has started. To be clear, that is not what we want. What we are looking for is a method to kick you from the games that haven't started yet.

Yes, I know how to read, and understood your suggestion completely. In fact, if you read my response, you can see that I was talking specifically about games that take a while to fill sometimes (and thus would not have started yet).

Should I word it differently again, or are we on the same page yet?

[Queen_Herpes]

Here's my perspective (for those who care to see more than their own). I like to play the occasional large standard speed games. These can take quite a while to fill sometimes, and often I will play some speed 1v1's in the meantime. Occasionally I will get distracted from the game for more than 5 minutes (phone call, visitors, reading the forums/some other website).

If this suggestion were implemented (including only a single miss, rather than complete deadbeatery), it would significantly reduce my ability to enjoy my games, and that's why I'm against it. Go figure.

I don't understand the opinion that someone should be dropped if they don't play for 5 minutes, but that we should be more cautious about the 24-hour period. It's 5 freaking minutes, for crying out loud.

You do understand that we are not asking to kick you from the game you are playing, right? The way I read your response, it sounds as though you think we want you to be kicked out of a game that has started. To be clear, that is not what we want. What we are looking for is a method to kick you from the games that haven't started yet.

Yes, I know how to read, and understood your suggestion completely. In fact, if you read my response, you can see that I was talking specifically about games that take a while to fill sometimes (and thus would not have started yet).

Should I word it differently again, or are we on the same page yet?

I'm not on the same page as you are, but I understand your position. Ultimately, if you look away from your computer for five minutes...miss a speed turn...and get dropped from your waiting speed games. You can rejoin those games. You're not missing anything, but by staying joined in those awaiting games, you're risking affecting the game for the other players if you are to miss more turns in the games that start while you drop the kids off at the pool.

[yeti_c]

Probably a good idea - maybe on;y make it apply to Public games...

Any Tournie or Private game should stay.

C.

[Queen_Herpes]

Probably a good idea - maybe on;y make it apply to Public games...

Any Tournie or Private game should stay.

C.

I agree...definitely could be very helpful with speed.

[AAFitz]

I think overall this would punish far more people than it would help. Perhaps two consecutive would make sense or a deadbeated game, but even Ive missed a few turns, and almost always have a waiting game or at times many.

With speed games, its very easy to miss a turn, but one miss does not mean anything in the grand scheme, and certainly does not mean you will miss another anytime soon.

It is a good idea, but one missed turn is just way too early to enact change. Perhaps one deadbeated game would make more sense. Again, way more players would be unfairly punished simply because some miss turns and deadbeat. My turn taking ratio is probably, 99.99999%. Dumping me out of my waiting games which could cause my teammates harm is just ridiculous, if I simply miss one turn for any number of reasons, all which are justifiable, and not worthy of any action whatsoever.

Again, its completely against the entire CC philosophy of a casual gaming site. The only people who should be punished for missing turns should be those that miss a lot of them. Missing the occasional turn is simply going to happen, to even the most dedicated on the site. Enacting this, will punish nearly every single player on the site, and the dedicated ones more, simply because a lower percentage of the population just isnt dedicated.

I dont really care if they deadbeat or not, but punishing me because they do, will absolutely indeed make my CC experience worse, and all those that are like me, who while playing 1000's of games, do occasionally miss a turn.

The biggest impacted area will be team games, where someone missed a turn, didnt know it, then got kicked out of their team games waiting...then, anyone could join, thereby ruining way more games than the one missed turn ever could have.

The consequences of this would be 100 times worse than the few missed turns that happen occasionally. This may very well be the best example of the cure being worse than the disease that Ive seen in a very long time.

The problem is a few missed turns, so a few games are delayed....which most players, dont even care about. This suggestion, would affect nearly every player, and ruin games and games of people who didnt even miss turns all over CC, and there would be very little warning of it happening. It would be a CC global epidemic of ruined games as teammates all over were dropped from waiting games, often with games that have been set up for a week or more, and making it apply to only singles games, helps, but still punishes the most dedicated players on the site, for the actions of the least dedicated....and again, the solution causes far more problems than the problem it is supposedly trying to solve...which again, is a few missed turns that most people dont even notice or care about.