[Official] Freestyle Changes -- Give us your feedback!

[twinfists]

i have to say i am totally against the proposals, apart from the suggestion which combats the 1 vs 1 delay to make one player miss a turn.

ie. i agree with: after 12 hours the player who finished the last round can play again, irrespective of whether anyone else has started their go

[twinfists]

sorry i just noted that what i agreed with was not quite what was suggested, but i do feel my idea is prefereable

[hulmey]

Just get rid of freestyle!!! You either play it or you dont!!

[JOHNNYROCKET24]

leave it the way it is. if you dont like...than dont play it. I played the most 1 vs 1's and have double moves played on me all the time. Not once have I complained about it.

[DiM]

leave it the way it is. if you dont like...than dont play it. I played the most 1 vs 1's and have double moves played on me all the time. Not once have I complained about it.

if johnny says to leave it like this then it's definitely time to change it.

oh and i can't believe the nerve on him to post the bolded part.

exactly how many times has this been done on you? compared to how many times you did it to others?

treefiddy made a nice calculation on your 1000 point gain from abusing the freestyle system. i'm sorry to say this but your abusing time is over.

[JOHNNYROCKET24]

leave it the way it is. if you dont like...than dont play it. I played the most 1 vs 1's and have double moves played on me all the time. Not once have I complained about it.

if johnny says to leave it like this then it's definitely time to change it.

oh and i can't believe the nerve on him to post the bolded part.

exactly how many times has this been done on you? compared to how many times you did it to others?

treefiddy made a nice calculation on your 1000 point gain from abusing the freestyle system. i'm sorry to say this but your abusing time is over.

you truely are a dumb ass. out of 775 1 vs 1's, I played the double move tactic in like 20 games. big fucking deal asshole. How many fucking times do I have to spell it out?

I LOST -200 POINTS IN 1 VS 1 'S AND I STILL PLAY THEM.

im sorry to say your cocksucking time isnt over

[Twill]

DiM, Johnny, calm down, flame forum not here

Lack, I like the 12 hour things, dont like the end of turn thingy.

the end of turn thingy turns every freestyle game into a sequential game at the end - I move, end turn, wait for you to finish, you play your turn without me being able to move, then I end turn and then you have to wait for me to finish the round before you move again...it's sequential.

taking but not holding a continent then grabbing the bonus ASAP is part of freestyle, and it's not really abuse because it should be the first thing that your opponent attcks, just in case.

I agree "online user" will make a big diff, and we know it's coming eventually

[DiM]

leave it the way it is. if you dont like...than dont play it. I played the most 1 vs 1's and have double moves played on me all the time. Not once have I complained about it.

if johnny says to leave it like this then it's definitely time to change it.

oh and i can't believe the nerve on him to post the bolded part.

exactly how many times has this been done on you? compared to how many times you did it to others?

treefiddy made a nice calculation on your 1000 point gain from abusing the freestyle system. i'm sorry to say this but your abusing time is over.

you truely are a dumb ass. out of 775 1 vs 1's, I played the double move tactic in like 20 games. big fucking deal asshole. How many fucking times do I have to spell it out?

I LOST -200 POINTS IN 1 VS 1 'S AND I STILL PLAY THEM.

im sorry to say your cocksucking time isnt over

insults and lies. again johnny? do you get a hard on from this? does it make you feel all manly inside?

don't tell us you lost points and i'd advise you to read this again. it's a clear study of your 1v1 freestyle games. and your point gain loss stats. do you really want us to check and see how many times you forced a person to miss turns? i bet it's far more than 20 times.

oh and dear johnny your answers are eagerly awaited in this thread: http://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=690502#690502

I did the work for you this time because I recall how much trouble you had prior to this.

Of course you did the "work" for me, because you're lying and you know it. I had already done the work, as listed above. All you did was make me double check my work. I did miss two of your losses which puts you 124 points more into the hole than you were before.

Were you counting your sequential losses? You do realize that those have absolutely nothing to do with you abusing the freestyle system, right? I should also like to point out that your winning percentage is only 57% in sequential, which just happens to be a perfectly fair enviroment that you cannot abuse. Perhaps this is a true light on how good of a player you really are?

You've lost a total of 2380 points in 1v1 freestyle. This is an average of less than 53 points per loss, not an "average of 60 per loss", because you didn't have 3500 points the entire time. I counted the point loss from all your lost games; this is accurate, feel free to double check me.

Like I said in my earlier post, I was giving you the benefit of the doubt on the average points per game. When you started freestyle, the point changes are that of someone with only ~2500 points.

And sense you're too dense to understand all this, let me break it down for you. I checked your losses on every page. With 100 results per page, it was very easy to track your wins since you lose so infrequently. That was until I got to page 6 where you lost several times.

(Points gained based on 6 points per win average)
Page 1 - 576 - 255
Page 2 - 594 - 72
Page 3 - 564 - 387
Page 4 - 582 - 220
Page 5 - 564 - 391
Page 6 - 498 - 673
Page 7 - 300 - 382 (58 games on this page)

Apparently the "LEET" Johnnyrocket24 didn't know how to abuse the system yet. It's amazing how your losses came down considerably once you learned how to cheat -err- "take advantage of freestyle". So take out the first 158 games, and it's clear that you've gained a substantial amount of points from abusing the system.

So while you say that you've lost 300 points, the reality of this is that you've gained nearly 1,000 points off abusing the system. All so you can put your name at the top of any list that you make as a form of autofellatio.

I honestly can't wait for the defacto double turn to be fixed so I can watch your points dwindle away.

[oVo]

It would seem that just eliminating 1v1 freestyle games is a simpler solution to the "late play tactic" that some employ.

Eliminate 1v1 freestyle!? Every freestyle game eventually boils down to 1v1

Of course "every game" eventually becomes a 1v1, but a lot of choices have been made
and much has happened on the map before you ever get to that point.

A freestyle 1v1 is potentially the fairest of the 1v1s, because both combatants can move simultaneously at the start. In most sequencial 1v1s the first move is such a huge advantage that the other player rarely overcomes it.

[twinfists]

I agree "online user" will make a big diff

if you go onto the forum page, at the bottom, there is a list of users who are online, i already use this to check to see if someone is waiting to take a swift go.

also, if you check their other games, you can see if they are in the process if taking a turn in another game. if they are, it should give ou time to make your move before they get back to looking at your game.

[Twill]

I agree "online user" will make a big diff

if you go onto the forum page, at the bottom, there is a list of users who are online, i already use this to check to see if someone is waiting to take a swift go.

also, if you check their other games, you can see if they are in the process if taking a turn in another game. if they are, it should give ou time to make your move before they get back to looking at your game.

Indeed, I know that, but they can hide their online status on the forum, it only records "activity in the last 5 minutes" and if someone is lurking waiting for you to take your turn, they arent likely to be playing in other games at that point.

It's also a pain in the ass to check 4 places to see if you can take a turn in your game

phpBB3 should make a lot of things much easier for Lack if/when it is implemented...such as a much better "online now" module

[Rocketry]

seems to make playing freetyle a bit pointless to me, but it seems to be what the majority want so i'd say bring it in.

Rocketry

[jiminski]

Yeap, I like anything that will stop this annoying abuse!

i may even play Freestyle again if you get it right.
Thank you for your work!

[Aerial Attack]

OK, I see your point, and I have no problem with those rules applied to a non 1-on-1 Freestyle game (which I'm sure the rules would have to be implemented to all Freestyle games, not just on ones over two players) however, like I said before, those rules would kill any chance of a true speed game for us non-premium players.

Sincerely,
thedude13

How exactly would this kill a speed game (for freemium)? The only thing that this changes is the real-time game (with overlapping moves). As long as both players are online and taking their turns as fast as they can, this is still a real-time "speed" game.

Without overlapping moves, time per round may almost double (probably something like 2.5 minutes to 4.5 minutes). This is still definitely a SPEED game.

Realize that this change affects premium players just as much. If you are playing a real-time game (regardless of status), you can't play more than 2 at a time - especially not freestyle. So, it doesn't really matter that premiums can play more than 4 games at once.

Remember, it's the premiums (and lack) who are supporting your ability to play ANYTHING for free here. So what if - in order to fix a bug - you have to wait 2 more minutes to take a turn in a free style game. This means you can play games at the same time - instead of only 1.

[thedude13]

How exactly would this kill a speed game (for freemium)? The only thing that this changes is the real-time game (with overlapping moves). As long as both players are online and taking their turns as fast as they can, this is still a real-time "speed" game.

Without overlapping moves, time per round may almost double (probably something like 2.5 minutes to 4.5 minutes). This is still definitely a SPEED game.

Realize that this change affects premium players just as much. If you are playing a real-time game (regardless of status), you can't play more than 2 at a time - especially not freestyle. So, it doesn't really matter that premiums can play more than 4 games at once.

Remember, it's the premiums (and lack) who are supporting your ability to play ANYTHING for free here. So what if - in order to fix a bug - you have to wait 2 more minutes to take a turn in a free style game. This means you can play games at the same time - instead of only 1.

It has nothing to do with the fact that "Premiums" can play more than 4 games at once, it is the fact however, that they have access to "Speed Games."

At any rate, the kill is not only in the fact that the rounds would take two to three times longer, but also in the fact of the loss of "Speed." By "Speed," I mean the adrenaline you get from anticipating your opponents move before he even makes it; deploying armies at the spur of the moment to hopefully counter that anticipated move, granted you anticipated correctly; and hoping to hell that your opponent did not anticipate your anticipation and decided to make a different, but equally deadly, move...compared to...sitting there and watching the other player take his turn, hoping he doesn't f**k you over too much, would be ten fold.

thedude13

___________

The Dude abides.

[Aerial Attack]

At any rate, the kill is not only in the fact that the rounds would take two to three times longer, but also in the fact of the loss of "Speed." By "Speed," I mean the adrenaline you get from anticipating your opponents move before he even makes it; deploying armies at the spur of the moment to hopefully counter that anticipated move, granted you anticipated correctly; and hoping to hell that your opponent did not anticipate your anticipation and decided to make a different, but equally deadly, move...compared to...sitting there and watching the other player take his turn, hoping he doesn't f**k you over too much, would be ten fold.

thedude13

You incorrectly quoted the overlapping turns (adrenaline) part as "Speed." Whilst you do need to think and react quickly, this is NOT a speed game. And your complaint about Premiums having speed games is invalid. With the proposed changes, they will lose this "adrenaline" game as well.

A speed game as is, just guarantees that the game is effectively real-time. With your play style and opponents, you pretty much have that. So, I see no reason why you complain about not having SPEED games.

Your complaint about the loss of the adrenaline rush is valid. Alas, far too many people abused this delicate feature. Lack wants the games to be balanced and fair.

[thedude13]

You incorrectly quoted the overlapping turns (adrenaline) part as "Speed." Whilst you do need to think and react quickly, this is NOT a speed game. And your complaint about Premiums having speed games is invalid. With the proposed changes, they will lose this "adrenaline" game as well.

A speed game as is, just guarantees that the game is effectively real-time. With your play style and opponents, you pretty much have that. So, I see no reason why you complain about not having SPEED games.

Your complaint about the loss of the adrenaline rush is valid. Alas, far too many people abused this delicate feature. Lack wants the games to be balanced and fair.

Your points are valid. That is why I proposed that the "Speed Game" feature be extended to everyone, in the event that the new rules are implemented, to stop any further complaints about the new rules.

thedude13

___________

The Dude abides.

[Aerial Attack]

The biggest difference with a Speed game, is that Premiums can create/search on a speed game at any time and are pretty much guaranteed a real-time game. Freemiums need to coordinate with someone else who may or may not actually play the game in real-time. Also, if someone suddenly has to leave a casual game, oops it's now 24 hours (x3) until a dead beat. Or you have to coordinate again in order to resume playing. Whereas with a speed game, 15 minutes later the game is over.

Lack wants premiums to not have to work so hard to play speed games. This also guarantees that the game should be over in a reasonable time-frame (although I have played several speed games that took nearly 3 hours!).

The way I see it, premiums only really have 3 things that freebies don't:

1. More than 4 games (you still have to wait out deadbeats - you actually have more. You just have more turns to take while waiting).
2. Speed Games (guaranteed real-time. The call-outs forum or regular playing opponents pretty much does the same).
3. A gold color ranking vs a silver one (whoop dee do!)

Lack wants this site to be as fun as possible. He also needs to pay for the bandwidth, equipment, electricity, and his time. He figures that by allowing you access to real-time games in call outs he's given you speed games. It's just a lot less of a hassle (and you wouldn't be demanding it if it wasn't) to have speed games right off the bat. Either you put up with the hassle or you pay. It's not really a hard choice. I assume you like the site as it is - or you wouldn't be here.

[thedude13]

Well said Aerial, that's what I like to see in these forums. A well thought out and well put argument.

~~~
| |
~~~
|

(White Flag)

For now.

thedude13

___________

The Dude abides.

[turtle32]

if i undersdtand the proposed changes correctly, ibelieve that once the game goes down to 1 vs 1 freestyle it will become a sequential, just with a 12 hour time to take your turn if the other player waits until 11:59
i like this idea for 3 or more, but not two

[Aerial Attack]

Player B starts his turn after 11 hours and 40 minutes... and finishes his turn after 12 hours and 20 minutes...

Can Player A start his turn after 12 hours?

Yes

if i undersdtand the proposed changes correctly, ibelieve that once the game goes down to 1 vs 1 freestyle it will become a sequential, just with a 12 hour time to take your turn if the other player waits until 11:59
i like this idea for 3 or more, but not two

I missed yeti's earlier question and lack's reply before. This changes my understanding of the proposed rule changes slightly. It does make a difference now between Premium and Freemium players.

This also applies to turtle's complaint ...

I doubt they would agree to it, but two Premium members could agree to a Speed game and ONLY start their moves after two mins and 29 seconds had elapsed. This would allow for the adrenaline game. Of course, this would have to be agreed upon prior to playing.

So yes, a 6 player freestyle (Casual) would essentially boil down to a 2 player sequential game w/ this caveat. The rounds is always 24 hours (or less).

If you are complaining about only having 12 hours with which to make your move (as the person going second), well this is IMMENSELY preferable to having 30 seconds in which to complete your move [current system].

[Clive]

If you are complaining about only having 12 hours with which to make your move (as the person going second), well this is IMMENSELY preferable to having 30 seconds in which to complete your move [current system].

Preferable maybe but it's still not the 24 hours, and could still lead to abuse, I for one am not able to check my games every 12 hours, only every 24 hours.

[Herakilla]

if these changes are implemented even I would start playing freestyle

[turtle32]

Player B starts his turn after 11 hours and 40 minutes... and finishes his turn after 12 hours and 20 minutes...

Can Player A start his turn after 12 hours?

Yes

if i undersdtand the proposed changes correctly, ibelieve that once the game goes down to 1 vs 1 freestyle it will become a sequential, just with a 12 hour time to take your turn if the other player waits until 11:59
i like this idea for 3 or more, but not two

I missed yeti's earlier question and lack's reply before. This changes my understanding of the proposed rule changes slightly. It does make a difference now between Premium and Freemium players.

This also applies to turtle's complaint ...

I doubt they would agree to it, but two Premium members could agree to a Speed game and ONLY start their moves after two mins and 29 seconds had elapsed. This would allow for the adrenaline game. Of course, this would have to be agreed upon prior to playing.

So yes, a 6 player freestyle (Casual) would essentially boil down to a 2 player sequential game w/ this caveat. The rounds is always 24 hours (or less).

If you are complaining about only having 12 hours with which to make your move (as the person going second), well this is IMMENSELY preferable to having 30 seconds in which to complete your move [current system].

Its late, and i believe i understand what you are saying. I don't think you quite understood my suggestion.
I was thinking that if it was possible to somehow make any game created or that boils down to a 1 vs 1 freestyle to not lose the effect of freestyle with the waiting until the other player has taken their turn, they just have to wait until the turn it begun. It is a good idea for 3 or more players though.

[Aerial Attack]

If you are complaining about only having 12 hours with which to make your move (as the person going second), well this is IMMENSELY preferable to having 30 seconds in which to complete your move [current system].

Preferable maybe but it's still not the 24 hours, and could still lead to abuse, I for one am not able to check my games every 12 hours, only every 24 hours.

I already showed what happens in this situation with my response on page 1 of this thread - but I will repost here (in this scenario - YOU are Coffee Player):

This would still allow someone to play every day at their 4:00 PM (16:00) coffee break.

Round 1 (Max End Day 2 15:59)
Day 1 16:00 Coffee Player STARTS Turn 1
Day 1 16:10 Coffee Player ENDS Turn 1
Day 1 18:00 Free Player STARTS Turn 1
Day 1 18:10 Free Player ENDS Turn 1

Round 2 (Max End Day 2 18:09)
Day 2 6:10 Free Player STARTS Turn 2
Day 2 6:20 Free Player ENDS Turn 2
Day 2 16:00 Coffee Player STARTS Turn 2
Day 2 16:10 Coffee Player ENDS Turn 2

Round 3 (Max End Day 3 16:09)
Day 2 18:00 Free Player STARTS Turn 3
Day 2 18:10 Free Player ENDS Turn 3
Day 3 16:00 Coffee Player STARTS Turn 3
Day 3 16:09 Coffee Player ENDS Turn 3

Notice that Free Player was not able to take Turn 4 before Coffee Player took Turn 3. So, the window is still effectively 24 hours (and fair). The double turns now only occur when Coffee player starts a round (allowing Free Player to go twice before Coffee player logs back in). In order for Free Player to get another double turn, Coffee Player would have to take a double turn or miss a turn.

NOTE: Coffee Player does run the possibility of eventually not having much time to TAKE a turn. This is due to the fact that each successive day - the round potentially ends a few seconds or minutes earlier than the previous [max limit would be 24 hours exactly].