Decline of "Whose forum is it anyway?"

[universalchiro]

The quality of players will ebb and flow as with all things cyclical, however "Whose forum is it anyway?" is being held hostage by an ilk of derailers that topics they don't like gets attacked and derailed in short order.

Anyone else experience the same detrimental derailing effect that has declined the quality of discussion in CC's "Whose forum is it anyway?"?

[demonfork]

The quality of players will ebb and flow as with all things cyclical, however "Whose forum is it anyway?" is being held hostage by an ilk of derailers that topics they don't like gets attacked and derailed in short order.

Anyone else (please dont respond Andy, notyou2 & BBS) experience the same detrimental derailing effect that has declined topics outside of CC?

Who are these "ilk of derailers that topics they don't like"?

Why do you think these ilk don't like the topics that they are derailing?

Why do you believe that theses topics that are supposedly not liked by these ilk are indeed truly unliked and are truly being derailed?

[thegreekdog]

Who are these "ilk of derailers that topics they don't like"?

(please dont respond Andy, notyou2 & BBS

Why do you think these ilk don't like the topics that they are derailing?

Phatscotty got his panties in a twist about some folks calling him out on something. Instead of reporting folk or starting a user group, he's decided a new forum is appropriate.

tl;dr - It's OT stuff. You wouldn't care.

Why do you believe that theses topics that are supposedly not liked by these ilk are indeed truly unliked and are truly being derailed?

I guess because he's boyz (thug life!) with Phatscotty. As far as I can tell universalchiro is not a regular forum denizen and has never participated in any "serious business" threads until last week. And I'm pretty much the person that has spent the most time in OT since 2008, so I'm fairly certain that's an expert opinion.

In related news, moderators, can you please move this thread to OT so that we don't bother the important folk with their important work involving talking about playing risk? Alternatively, we can find out what people that read both GD and OT think about this...

Oh wait... that's really only BBS, and, well...

(please dont respond Andy, notyou2 & BBS

[universalchiro]

Is not General Discussion about " Talk about all things related to Conquer Club"?
All forum regulation is related to Conquer Club.
And my short tenure doesn't handicap a valid point, nor does ones length of tenure make a point more or less valid regarding this thread of the here and now of derailers detracting from a forum in CC. This thread is not about 2008, but the present condition.

[nietzsche]

I was not always trolling everything, but with time we ran out of topics, so now we see the same arguments over and over, so I think that's why we troll them. I enjoy OT as much now as when I considered the discussions relevant.

But for long OT has been a place of fun, with a few threads of serious discussion. I don't think we are wrong. Maybe because I'm part of the problem that I say that.

OT's action is cyclic, and increases in fun when saxi starts fun threads.

This is my point of view, I think it will differ a lot from those who enjoy politics.

[Dukasaur]

OT has plenty of serious discussion, with a lot of joking around in between. In short, it's just like being at a party. A lot of tomfoolery, but also a lot of opportunity to discuss things rationally if that is what you choose to do.

I would not change it.

[thegreekdog]

Is not General Discussion about " Talk about all things related to Conquer Club"?
All forum regulation is related to Conquer Club.
And my short tenure doesn't handicap a valid point, nor does ones length of tenure make a point more or less valid regarding this thread of the here and now of derailers detracting from a forum in CC. This thread is not about 2008, but the present condition.

Cool. I still post more than most people. I commend you and Phatscotty for coming up with a viable strategy whereby someone who is well known (you are a general, after all, which seems carries some weight) posts something in favor of someone who is somewhat notorious (no offense intended for Phatscotty), thereby lending credence to his arguments (silly though I may think them to be). Of course, if this isn't a strategy and you are simply coming to assist a friend, I commend you for that as well, misplaced though it may be.

Phatscotty has the following options:

(1) Make a suggestion for a separate forum. Obviously he has done this. This has also been done many times in the past. I would note further that most people who made this suggestion (or, more accurately, supported this suggestion) in the past were folks who were offended by the amount of American politics threads in OT (many of which were created by Phatscotty). For example, pimpdave and Pedronicus.

(2) Form a usergroup. I suggested this. At least one other has suggested it.

(3) Report the offensive users for derailing. This likely includes at least the persons you listed in your original post (which has since been edited).

(4) Ignore the derailers.

I suppose there could be more options, but these seem most realistic. I will participate in threads that occasionally are derailed. I think, without exception, I go with (4) and either continue the thread, stop posting in that thread and start another thread, or abandon the issue. But, hey, that's just me.

As for whether the OT forum is declining, you are sorely mistaken. There are as many intelligent posters as ever, if not more, than before (BBS, mets, and saxitoxin alone are a match for any posters from any forum on the internet) and I would venture to say that the OT is funnier than ever. But, well, I'm biased.

[thegreekdog]

I was not always trolling everything, but with time we ran out of topics, so now we see the same arguments over and over, so I think that's why we troll them. I enjoy OT as much now as when I considered the discussions relevant.

But for long OT has been a place of fun, with a few threads of serious discussion. I don't think we are wrong. Maybe because I'm part of the problem that I say that.

OT's action is cyclic, and increases in fun when saxi starts fun threads.

This is my point of view, I think it will differ a lot from those who enjoy politics.

I love politics and I hold the same point of view as you do. The beauty of our forum is that I'm not required to read a person's posts (I guess some people aren't physically able to do that).

Also, can this thread be an official "OT IS COMING TO INVADE GD!" thread?

[universalchiro]

@ thegreekdog,
Twice you have mentioned that this is off topic, so twice I quote the definition of General Discussion:" Talk about all things related to Conquer Club". This thread is about a forum within CC.
Respectfully, Please don't say the same request three times. Your point was made on first mention.

Twice you mentioned Phatscotty as the reason of this thread. I don't recall ever teamming up with him in a game, we are not in same clan, yes we may have a similar view every now and then, but that doesn't mean we are associating his "Suggestions" thread with this one. I have felt this way before his thread was posted. Respectfully please don't say the same thing a third time. Your point was made atfrst mention.

[Serbia]

Ok, how about this: why do you care? And alternatively: if it bothers you that much, stay away from it.

Bollocks.

[betiko]

I was not always trolling everything, but with time we ran out of topics, so now we see the same arguments over and over, so I think that's why we troll them. I enjoy OT as much now as when I considered the discussions relevant.

But for long OT has been a place of fun, with a few threads of serious discussion. I don't think we are wrong. Maybe because I'm part of the problem that I say that.

OT's action is cyclic, and increases in fun when saxi starts fun threads.

This is my point of view, I think it will differ a lot from those who enjoy politics.

I love politics and I hold the same point of view as you do. The beauty of our forum is that I'm not required to read a person's posts (I guess some people aren't physically able to do that).

Also, can this thread be an official "OT IS COMING TO INVADE GD!" thread?

I support the words coming from the fingers of these two.

[thegreekdog]

@ thegreekdog,
Twice you have mentioned that this is off topic, so twice I quote the definition of General Discussion:" Talk about all things related to Conquer Club". This thread is about a forum within CC.
Respectfully, Please don't say the same request three times. Your point was made on first mention.

Twice you mentioned Phatscotty as the reason of this thread. I don't recall ever teamming up with him in a game, we are not in same clan, yes we may have a similar view every now and then, but that doesn't mean we are associating his "Suggestions" thread with this one. I have felt this way before his thread was posted. Respectfully please don't say the same thing a third time. Your point was made atfrst mention.

I will tell you without reservation that I really don't care if this thread resides in GD or OT. My only hesitation that it's here is that people who care about OT tend to stay in OT (and do not venture into GD) and vice versa, so the message of your thread would be more appropriate there, in my opinion. I do not find the thread to be "off topic" much as I disgaree with the premise. To avoid confusion, I'm not making the point a third time; I was simply explaining why I made the point the first time.

In any event, perhaps if you answered serbia's question that might be helpful. From my perspective, you seem to be on one side of this discussion (along with Phatscotty) when virtually every other OT forum denizen (if not all of them) is on the other side of the discussion. In fact, I don't believe anyone else has supported Phatscotty's suggestion other than you. So, naturally, I wonder why you would take that position. You haven't spent enough time in the OT forum to determine that the forum had underailed serious business threads in the past and that has changed only recently. You also don't seem to be swayed, in any way, shape or form, by the arguments posed by everyone else from OT in both the Suggestions Forum and OT. I'm not even sure you've addressed those arguments at all (see above posts by me and others). You seem to fixated, at least in this thread, on making sure this topic stays in GD and have not addressed any other reasons why the OT forum has not declined. So, there are some myriad reasons why I'm skeptical of your support.

[universalchiro]

... why do you care?

I enjoy coherent dialogue where I can potentially learn other ideas from people around the world. The ability to communicate with another culture or even one with similar views and background is edifying. Let me gently ask you: Why don't you care?

… if it bothers you that much, stay away from it...

I view the current situation of not being able to efficiently communicate with another within CC forum, via dialogue purposefully derailed by a handful, shall I not voice out. Suppose I am correct and you now hear of this derailing tactic that hinders enjoyable dialogue within CC forum, shouldn't you not advise me to just go away quietly into the night, shouldn't you stand up for what is right whether the outcome does or does not affect you. Where is the honor to affirm right even though you have nothing to gain.


@thegreekdog: that's three times you've sounded the same message. I fully understand your messege, you were clear the first time.
@demonfork: who the derailers are is a handful of known players, maybe another place to name them. As far as what topics they primarily derail, wide range of topics.
@betiko: roger that.

[BigBallinStalin]

... why do you care?

I enjoy coherent dialogue where I can potentially learn other ideas from people around the world. The ability to communicate with another culture or even one with similar views and background is edifying.

You may have such intentions, but you do not follow through. Great examples abound in the religious threads where people pressure you to justify your position, and you inevitably regress into Phatscotty dodge tactics--especially by repeating yourself while ignoring sensible counter-points. People don't like that because PS tactics are disrespectful. To discourage such behavior, your topics become sabotaged and derailed. It's a natural mechanism for meting out OT justice.

In short, you're butthurt about being punished by the community for being a prick.

[Serbia]

... why do you care?

I enjoy coherent dialogue where I can potentially learn other ideas from people around the world. The ability to communicate with another culture or even one with similar views and background is edifying. Let me gently ask you: Why don't you care?

Mmm, yeah. I must ask you to rephrase your question in a less gentle manner. Then I shall attempt to provide you with a response.

Bollocks.

[BigBallinStalin]

I agree with TGD. This thread is more OT-related than GD-related. I wouldn't want to waste the GD'ers time with OT-related politics.

[2dimes]

I wouldn't want to waste the GD'ers time with OT-related politics.

I would.

[BigBallinStalin]

I wouldn't want to waste the GD'ers time with OT-related politics.

I would.

[universalchiro]

... why do you care?

I enjoy coherent dialogue where I can potentially learn other ideas from people around the world. The ability to communicate with another culture or even one with similar views and background is edifying.

You may have such intentions, but you do not follow through. Great examples abound in the religious threads where people pressure you to justify your position, and you inevitably regress into... dodge tactics... People don't like that... To discourage such behavior, your topics become sabotaged and derailed. It's a natural mechanism for meting out OT justice.

In short, your? being... a prick.

I understand your view, we disagree on whether I'm avoiding rebuttals, but still there is no need to implement Argumentum Ad Hominem. Please keep discussion above personal attacks, thanks.
However, thank you for validating my point that there are a handful of saboteurs and derailers that purposefully sabotage and derail a topic within a forum of CC.

[BigBallinStalin]

... why do you care?

I enjoy coherent dialogue where I can potentially learn other ideas from people around the world. The ability to communicate with another culture or even one with similar views and background is edifying.

You may have such intentions, but you do not follow through. Great examples abound in the religious threads where people pressure you to justify your position, and you inevitably regress into Phatscotty dodge tactics--especially by repeating yourself while ignoring sensible counter-points. People don't like that because PS tactics are disrespectful. To discourage such behavior, your topics become sabotaged and derailed. It's a natural mechanism for meting out OT justice.

In short, you're butthurt about being punished by the community for being a prick.

I understand your view, we disagree on whether I'm avoiding rebuttals, but still there is no need to implement Argumentum Ad Hominem. Please keep discussion above personal attacks, thanks.
However, thank you for validating my point that there are a handful of saboteurs and derailers that purposefully sabotage and derail a topic within a forum of CC.

When one engages in PS dodging, they're being a prick. So, it's not an ad hominem because it's true. Note the distinction between "being a prick" and "is a prick." I said that you were "being a prick" which is true--in the context already mentioned which you've conveniently omitted (*PS dodging already?).

If you can't realize when you're regressing into PS tactics, then either you'll learn, or you'll continue to ignore the counter-points. It's up to you.

Aside from supplying the demand for lulz, derails and sabotage also serve as a useful feedback mechanism. When you act disrespectful, you won't be respected. It's pretty simple. Instead of handling your problems like a mature adult, you've chosen to complain to GD about how your being a prick led to the consequence of being punished by the OT community. Grow up or keep ignoring your actions which cause the appropriate reaction.

[thegreekdog]

@thegreekdog: that's three times you've sounded the same message. I fully understand your messege, you were clear the first time.

And yet you've yet to address any of my points or provide and sort of discussion point other than "you said that already" and "because." Although, perhaps this is an explanation:

... why do you care?

I enjoy coherent dialogue where I can potentially learn other ideas from people around the world. The ability to communicate with another culture or even one with similar views and background is edifying.

You may have such intentions, but you do not follow through. Great examples abound in the religious threads where people pressure you to justify your position, and you inevitably regress into Phatscotty dodge tactics--especially by repeating yourself while ignoring sensible counter-points. People don't like that because PS tactics are disrespectful. To discourage such behavior, your topics become sabotaged and derailed. It's a natural mechanism for meting out OT justice.

In short, you're butthurt about being punished by the community for being a prick.

In short, you're going to have to bring something more substantial to this discussion. I would expect more given you've deigned to denigrate the OT folks by noting some perceived decline. This is a perfect forum (little "f") for you to show how you would engage in a serious discussion and so far you've failed... not by any subjective reason on my part, but objectively. You haven't shown why you believe OT has declined in any sufficient manner, you haven't provided any counterpoints as to why this belongs in GD (which is separate and apart from the main discussion which you've begun here) and so far no GD denizens have deigned (TWICE IN ONE POST!) to post in this thread. I would suggest you go back and hone your discussion/debate skills before engaging with the poor, derailing, moronic, "declining" folk of OT.

[universalchiro]

@BBS: your point is understood.
@TheGreekDog: your point is understood and suggestions on page one are reasonable.

Has anyone else noticed saboteurs and derailers in CC's "Whoes forum is it anyway?"?

[thegreekdog]

I don't know your definition of "saboteur" but, by my definition, such folks are easily ignored, but, generally should be addressed given that they often have valid points (e.g. there are threads on Republican and Democratic nominees for US president, which is entirely too soon to begin discussing). The same goes for derailers, I suppose. In any event, saboteurs and derailers would not, by themselves, evidence a decline in OT.

[BigBallinStalin]

@BBS: your point is understood.
@TheGreekDog: your point is understood and suggestions on page one are reasonable.

Has anyone else noticed saboteurs and derailers in CC's "Whoes forum is it anyway?"?

More importantly, does it matter? Derailers are doing more good than harm. They punish the disrespectful, they bring the lulz, and they decrease the alleged need for Mod control.

But wait, you already understand that, right? You just said you did, so why not apply my points to your own question? Could it be that you're ignoring my points?


Hmm, there seems to be a pattern here.

[universalchiro]

I don't know your definition of "saboteur" but, by my definition, such folks are easily ignored, but, generally should be addressed given that they often have valid points... saboteurs and derailers would not, by themselves, evidence a decline in OT.

I hear you. The definition of saboteur for CC forum is one that purposely/deliberately destroys a thread/topic, hinders discussion of topic. The definition of derailer is one who purposely/deliberately changes the topic of thread.

It's not to say a saboteur or derailer can't have a valid point, point conceded. It is to say that saboteurs and derailers take away from the enjoyment of dialogue within CC's forum.
It's difficult to sift through pages of derailment to read an actual, on topic, intelligent post. Ergo the ignore approach isn't working. Look at the lack of diversity in the CC forums. Seems many players have chosen to avoid trying to have an adult conversation with all the childish derailers.