The Passion of Owenshooter

[Woodruff]

Despite qwert's slight grammatical mistakes, he makes an excellent point. Team CC has to show a united front, even though individuals may have different opinions. If a mod does disagree, they keep it in the private forums, or say nothing at all. This prevents conflict within the Team, and presents a "united front" to the community.

And that is NOT a bad thing, mind you. I just wish they'd get on the stick regarding consistency amongst them as well as they do this. Hell, that's the way any organization really SHOULD be run.

[whitestazn88]

I don't get how saying something in 3 different threads 6 times is trolling? People complain about dice a lot, or talk about one clan war in the clan war thread, the cla thread (if it happens to be a cla match), etc. And they have the same opinion each time. People post threads about their favorite maps, which sometimes switches via the natural process of conversation to their least favorite maps, then a thread about the least favorite maps (and several "parody" threads [which i was "informally warned" about not making]) is made. Thus there could again be 6 posts in 3 topics. Shouldn't everyone be banned for those things?

Or how about in off-topics, when somehow, a question about say Apples money, becomes a debate about conservative economic policy, that those people aren't banned.

I tend to take the "whatever" approach to how the mods moderate, but you guys have pretty much become DoucheBag Totalitarian Power-Hungry AssHoles, obviously some of you have been for a while, and of course, there are a few good ones, but for the most part, dbtphah's, for short. (was the use of totalitarian appropriate in that sentence? It seems wrong to me.)

As to the reason for why Owen was berating CC, I don't understand how the moderating "teams" can say that they are "giving away" so much, when they aren't even putting up the money for it. You can just ask lack to give you some more premiums to give away I'm sure... at this point it might be the only way people get premiums, because for the money that the consumers are putting in, it seems that they aren't getting the service/value that they should expect. Especially for those who have contributed money for years (eg.Owenshooter).

[Night Strike]

You can just ask lack to give you some more premiums to give away I'm sure...

No, we can't.

[natty dread]

You can just ask lack to give you some more premiums to give away I'm sure...

No, we can't.

Yes, you can.

[Night Strike]

You can just ask lack to give you some more premiums to give away I'm sure...

No, we can't.

Yes, you can.

No, we can't. We have a set allotment of premium membership that we're allowed to use. We can't just contact the admins and ask for whatever amount we think is appropriate for the event we're running.

[whitestazn88]

You can just ask lack to give you some more premiums to give away I'm sure...

No, we can't.

Yes, you can.

No, we can't. We have a set allotment of premium membership that we're allowed to use. We can't just contact the admins and ask for whatever amount we think is appropriate for the event we're running.

So even though Lack has obviously approved of the use of these events for giving away premium, and probably endorses the wanted increase in these events to promote a greater sense of community in CC, he is completely stone-walling you on the number of premiums you're allowed to use... that makes sense.

[Dibbun]

You can just ask lack to give you some more premiums to give away I'm sure...

No, we can't.

Yes, you can.

No, we can't. We have a set allotment of premium membership that we're allowed to use. We can't just contact the admins and ask for whatever amount we think is appropriate for the event we're running.

But you can have an admin send out a PM with a 3 month ban attached when he really has no idea what the content of the "offending posts" are?

Why don't you guys drop the "he was trolling" argument, because it's not even coming close to convincing the majority of this community. Call it what it was - "mod sass" is now banned on CC. If you sass a mod, or sass an official raffle thread, or sass someone cooking with sassafras, you're going to get banned. Mods are a protected class of high holy individuals who are not to be criticized, not to be argued with, not to be joked around with under any circumstances because CC is srs bsns.

[Night Strike]

You can just ask lack to give you some more premiums to give away I'm sure...

No, we can't.

Yes, you can.

No, we can't. We have a set allotment of premium membership that we're allowed to use. We can't just contact the admins and ask for whatever amount we think is appropriate for the event we're running.

So even though Lack has obviously approved of the use of these events for giving away premium, and probably endorses the wanted increase in these events to promote a greater sense of community in CC, he is completely stone-walling you on the number of premiums you're allowed to use... that makes sense.

Lack is not involved in every single event run by the Entertainment Team (or other teams) except for the small things that take his coding (like changing the banner/dice, BRs, etc.). Every team gets a set amount of premium membership on a regular basis to use for either their department volunteers or for public events/donations. We don't go to the admins to ask for premium membership for every single thing because that's not how the system is set up. The admins are rarely involved in the actual deciding of where the premium membership goes; they just facilitate the awarding of premium once it has been decided.

[Night Strike]

But you can have an admin send out a PM with a 3 month ban attached when he really has no idea what the content of the "offending posts" are?

Why don't you guys drop the "he was trolling" argument, because it's not even coming close to convincing the majority of this community. Call it what it was - "mod sass" is now banned on CC. If you sass a mod, or sass an official raffle thread, or sass someone cooking with sassafras, you're going to get banned. Mods are a protected class of high holy individuals who are not to be criticized, not to be argued with, not to be joked around with under any circumstances because CC is srs bsns.

Andy and KA spend time doing their own research before they give out any ban, especially the two longest ones. And owen's comments were trolling, it doesn't matter if the community is convinced or not.

[jbrettlip]

You can just ask lack to give you some more premiums to give away I'm sure...

No, we can't.

Yes, you can.

No, we can't. We have a set allotment of premium membership that we're allowed to use. We can't just contact the admins and ask for whatever amount we think is appropriate for the event we're running.

NS, you just repeated yourself twice within the same thread. under the new "owen troll" rules, you are trolling. you have also repeated your stance over a half dozen times within this thread, also trolling. you are now effectively a troll and should be banned for 3 months. please keep repeating yourself so we can continue to laugh at how team CC is in this thread violating their own rules by stating their same opinions, over and over again. this ruling is a joke and andy knows it.

[Dibbun]

But you can have an admin send out a PM with a 3 month ban attached when he really has no idea what the content of the "offending posts" are?

Why don't you guys drop the "he was trolling" argument, because it's not even coming close to convincing the majority of this community. Call it what it was - "mod sass" is now banned on CC. If you sass a mod, or sass an official raffle thread, or sass someone cooking with sassafras, you're going to get banned. Mods are a protected class of high holy individuals who are not to be criticized, not to be argued with, not to be joked around with under any circumstances because CC is srs bsns.

Andy and KA spend time doing their own research before they give out any ban, especially the two longest ones. And owen's comments were trolling, it doesn't matter if the community is convinced or not.

Really? I think you guys need to brush up on what trolling is - a disruption. If the community does not feel disrupted, trolling cannot have occurred.

Was he targeting innocent civilians in his posts? Was he trying to prevent people from joining the contest? Was he criticizing the raffle for no reason?

No, he was laying out specific, reasonable, and relevant critique related to your raffle, and you guys freaked out because not everyone in your universe was happy enough for you.

If you're the entertainment team, explain why you removed my primary forum entertainment for 3 months, why you are trying to drive off one of the few true geniuses of CC who shines a light where the powers-who-think-they-be try to keep dark.

I've been warned for trolling, and I 100% disagreed with the decision but I respected it because at the time I respected the mod staff as being hands-off and unbiased, but I'm kind of losing the faith with this one. Seems highly petty.

Request you unban owen and tell him to stay out of your raffle thread. For the good of the community.

[jefjef]

Andy and KA spend time doing their own research before they give out any ban, especially the two longest ones. And owen's comments were trolling, it doesn't matter if the community is convinced or not.

Honestly. 95% of all posts in these forums could be twisted and interpreted into being trolling violations... Sometimes they are.

[thegreekdog]

I'm confused as to why no one responded to Metsfanmax's post. It seems fairly thoughtful and relevant to the discussion (unlike, say, "Hey, you join games where you know you'll win so that you can get points!" kind of posts).

I remain confused. Well, to be honest, I'm no so much confused as pretending to be confused to get someone to acknowledge that a moderator with a green colored name gave an explanation for a forum vacation (which, importantly, is within the province of those moderators with green colored names, as opposed to say those with brown colored names). And then once that post is acknowledged, perhaps we can have some relevant debate instead of, you know, whatever is going on here right now, entertaining though it may be.

[Metsfanmax]

Why don't you guys drop the "he was trolling" argument, because it's not even coming close to convincing the majority of this community. Call it what it was - "mod sass" is now banned on CC. If you sass a mod, or sass an official raffle thread, or sass someone cooking with sassafras, you're going to get banned. Mods are a protected class of high holy individuals who are not to be criticized, not to be argued with, not to be joked around with under any circumstances because CC is srs bsns.

The mod favoritism goes both ways for this argument. Many of you are making the case that it's because owen picked on the mods, that he got banned. I contest, however, that it has nothing to do with the fact that it was the mods, and that this was objectively trolling regardless of who he picked on. Consider this hypothetical example. Let's say that I decide I want to give out one year of premium in a raffle type contest. I post a thread about it in General Discussion, asking for people to sign up. Suddenly someone comes into my thread and says that I'm stingy because he is doing a similar contest but giving out two years of premium. Is anyone going to defend that person's actions, or complain if he gets a minor infraction for trolling? Am I going to feel welcome in the future, trying to help out the community from time to time?

[Victor Sullivan]

For your convenience:

I think he's referring to whoever from Team CC felt "trolled" and had an emotional response because owen hilariously pointed out how much more awesome the BPB contest was than the official CC raffle.

I did feel trolled when I originally saw owen's posts; I was rather disgusted, actually. owen is usually a minor troll but posting like that in the officlal thread was just way over the line. It showed zero taste, zero respect for the site, and I fail to see why it should not be considered trolling. Totally with Andy on a minor infraction for trolling here. Even though I had nothing to do with this ruling, I'll take a stab at this.

Andy then goes on to say "I think it is safe to say the above posts, which occurred over a 16 hour span actually are objectively Trolling."...hmmm..are they Andy? I see just 3 independent posts from Owen. He then responded to 3 posts, 2 of which are your team (1 in fact yourself).

What does it matter whether they are responding to people? Five of those six posts contained clear bashing against the team for hosting the event this way.

Are you or your team going to come back with a rational explanation as to why you chose to shut Owen up because he exercised his right to state an opinion? After all, in the last 3 posts he was responding to something written by some one else.

In what way is that a defense? If someone says something to him and he responds by trolling that person, that doesn't let him off the hook. I'll admit that samuelc812's comment kind of approached baiting when he said he shouldn't waste his breath on owen, but that doesn't justify owen's initial trolling or the trolling in response.

Or are we going to see the usual self righteous remark because some one in Admin/Mods has a thin skin and cannot take criticism. Well here's the thing Andy. The 3 month giveaway does look cheap. it does look as though this site is being cheeseparing and Fagin like in its approach. The Bandits are giving away 12 months and we have no reason to except to engender a spirit of community without asking people to follow our rules of signatures and avatars. This is Owen's beef and to be frank I agree with him wholeheartedly.

First, this is just one way to look at the issue. Another is that Team CC is quite generous in giving away free premiums, and that the Bandits are simply more generous. What if Team CC never gave away any premium? Would you be calling them stingy? The fact is that it really is rather nice that we give some of the members the opportunity to win free premium when that basically represents a direct loss of income. If the Bandits do what they do for the sake of improving the community morale and just generally being nice, then they shouldn't be worried that other people are doing it too - they should be honored. Honestly, this response almost sounds like you all are personally offended that someone is imitating you, when you should be quite flattered. I don't even understand this response. But this is all just my own point of view. The point is that there are legitimate ways to point out your beliefs. owen avoided that route and went for the trolling path instead. For example, a standard way of raising this concern would be to contact the Entertainment Team privately, or create a thread in Suggestions calmly and respectfully stating why you think the contest should give out more premium (not that I think you have a good argument for why Team CC should give away more money -- again, personally). A non-standard, and in fact trolling, way to do it is to blatantly criticize the team for not being as generous as you. Remember, trolling is often just as much about the context, and the way you say it, as the content of actually what is said.

Are you now going to threaten me with a ban as I have written about the same subject (criticising you, Andy, and your team) twice in a matter of a couple of hours? Am I allowed just one more post of opinion before you throw me off the forums?

You have brought up your arguments in a more respectful format, and in a slightly more appropriate place than the Announcements forum. You will probably not be banned.

By the way -- many of the posts in here imply that people are upset because he got banned for trolling, instead of actually objecting to the content of the trolling infraction. If that's the case, then what you're upset with is the escalating punishment system for infractions, which is a much bigger topic than this thread. I mean, I guess you could have asked for an exception to the escalating system but there's a reason those exceptions aren't really given out.

-Sully

[Pirlo]

The mod favoritism goes both ways for this argument. Many of you are making the case that it's because owen picked on the mods, that he got banned. I contest, however, that it has nothing to do with the fact that it was the mods, and that this was objectively trolling regardless of who he picked on. Consider this hypothetical example. Let's say that I decide I want to give out one year of premium in a raffle type contest. I post a thread about it in General Discussion, asking for people to sign up. Suddenly someone comes into my thread and says that I'm stingy because he is doing a similar contest but giving out two years of premium. Is anyone going to defend that person's actions, or complain if he gets a minor infraction for trolling? Am I going to feel welcome in the future, trying to help out the community from time to time?

In fact, that person in your example must be an ass, and I'd be glad for his long ban.

[Dibbun]

Why don't you guys drop the "he was trolling" argument, because it's not even coming close to convincing the majority of this community. Call it what it was - "mod sass" is now banned on CC. If you sass a mod, or sass an official raffle thread, or sass someone cooking with sassafras, you're going to get banned. Mods are a protected class of high holy individuals who are not to be criticized, not to be argued with, not to be joked around with under any circumstances because CC is srs bsns.

The mod favoritism goes both ways for this argument. Many of you are making the case that it's because owen picked on the mods, that he got banned. I contest, however, that it has nothing to do with the fact that it was the mods, and that this was objectively trolling regardless of who he picked on. Consider this hypothetical example. Let's say that I decide I want to give out one year of premium in a raffle type contest. I post a thread about it in General Discussion, asking for people to sign up. Suddenly someone comes into my thread and says that I'm stingy because he is doing a similar contest but giving out two years of premium. Is anyone going to defend that person's actions, or complain if he gets a minor infraction for trolling? Am I going to feel welcome in the future, trying to help out the community from time to time?

So if you are giving away premium, you are a protected class?

I recently discovered that I like to run tournaments. If someone posts in my thread saying my tournament sucks, best believe I'm going to reply saying why my tournament is awesome. If they persist, I will persist, and escalate the level of rhetoric if necessary.

As long as they don't:

1. Prevent someone from signing up for my tournament
2. Specifically insult those signing up for my tournament
3. Spout non-sequiturs instead of a reasoned argument

Then who am I to say they should not have their say? They're not disrupting the flow of the tournament (I'm a big boy and can handle criticism) they're bumping the thread and drawing more attention to it, which is never a bad thing.

I think perhaps you guys wanted to have accolades bestowed on you by the community for your "generosity," and for the most part, people are supportive of your contests. I'm neutral, and people like owen are opposed. Diversity is not a bad thing, when intellectual diffusion can occur in a civilized, rational manner, like it was being delivered by owen.

I also think that this entire proceeding has been far more disruptive of operations than anything owen said in your thread, because a valued and respected member of the CC community has been gagged and it has set a dangerous precedent that something as trivial as minor mod sass will lead to a multi-month ban.

I don't think this ban has made the CC community better in any way, quite the opposite really.

[Metsfanmax]

So if you are giving away premium, you are a protected class?

Of course not, trolling is trolling. The point is, I find it quite difficult to believe that anyone on CC would condone someone insulting me for giving up money out of my own pocket for the good of the community. I want to hear you say that you think that type of rhetoric is OK in the very thread where I'm giving away that gift before I believe you have a case. And even if you do say that, I believe you would be in the vast minority of the community. Most people would agree that that is simply trolling. It almost seems as though people are condoning the trolling precisely because it is directed at Team CC. That's why I say it goes both ways when you talk about mods being a special class.

I recently discovered that I like to run tournaments. If someone posts in my thread saying my tournament sucks, best believe I'm going to reply saying why my tournament is awesome. If they persist, I will persist, and escalate the level of rhetoric if necessary.

As long as they don't:

1. Prevent someone from signing up for my tournament
2. Specifically insult those signing up for my tournament
3. Spout non-sequiturs instead of a reasoned argument

Then who am I to say they should not have their say? They're not disrupting the flow of the tournament (I'm a big boy and can handle criticism) they're bumping the thread and drawing more attention to it, which is never a bad thing.

It seems to me that you're making the case that because you believe you have thick skin, trolling is OK if it's aimed at you because you don't mind so much. That's actually a good thing. However, we have a rule disallowing trolling in general for two reasons. First, it's that not everyone has a thick skin, and we'd rather be welcoming to those players instead of telling them that they either need to get over it or leave. Second, it sets a bad precedent, because surely there are some comments that would get under your skin, and we can't be doing things on a case-by-case basis. Very simply, the rule is to prevent comments that are either offensive or intended to make the person angry. I can say that owen's posts did that to me and I have nothing to do with the Entertainment Team. That is the hallmark of trolling, when it doesn't just make one person mad (like an inside joke) but can objectively be seen as disgraceful.

I think perhaps you guys wanted to have accolades bestowed on you by the community for your "generosity," and for the most part, people are supportive of your contests. I'm neutral, and people like owen are opposed. Diversity is not a bad thing, when intellectual diffusion can occur in a civilized, rational manner, like it was being delivered by owen.

The issue here is that it was neither civilized nor rational. I say it was uncivilized because he could simply have asked something like, "would it be possible for Team CC to give out more months of premium in these contests, as that would be good for the community?" I say it's irrational because he must surely have known that comments like that would have warranted a response from the moderating team. He's certainly broken enough rules to know which side of the line his posts are going to be on. It's also irrational because if, as he seems to be claiming, the contests are about doing good things for the community, then why is he trying so hard to create strife?

I also think that this entire proceeding has been far more disruptive of operations than anything owen said in your thread, because a valued and respected member of the CC community has been gagged and it has set a dangerous precedent that something as trivial as minor mod sass will lead to a multi-month ban.

You seem to be unfamiliar with the escalating ban system on CC. This sort of thing happens relatively frequently (that is, minor rule violations leading to long bans if the offender has a long history).

I don't think this ban has made the CC community better in any way, quite the opposite really.

The rules are there for all to see. Whether they lead to good things or bad things for the community, it's up to you to judge. But the rules were followed to the letter here, so I don't think it's fair to blame Andy for his action.

[BigBallinStalin]

So if you are giving away premium, you are a protected class?

Of course not, trolling is trolling. The point is, I find it quite difficult to believe that anyone on CC would condone someone insulting me for giving up money out of my own pocket for the good of the community. I want to hear you say that you think that type of rhetoric is OK in the very thread where I'm giving away that gift before I believe you have a case. And even if you do say that, I believe you would be in the vast minority of the community. Most people would agree that that is simply trolling. It almost seems as though people are condoning the trolling precisely because it is directed at Team CC. That's why I say it goes both ways when you talk about mods being a special class.

I recently discovered that I like to run tournaments. If someone posts in my thread saying my tournament sucks, best believe I'm going to reply saying why my tournament is awesome. If they persist, I will persist, and escalate the level of rhetoric if necessary.

As long as they don't:

1. Prevent someone from signing up for my tournament
2. Specifically insult those signing up for my tournament
3. Spout non-sequiturs instead of a reasoned argument

Then who am I to say they should not have their say? They're not disrupting the flow of the tournament (I'm a big boy and can handle criticism) they're bumping the thread and drawing more attention to it, which is never a bad thing.

It seems to me that you're making the case that because you believe you have thick skin, trolling is OK if it's aimed at you because you don't mind so much. That's actually a good thing. However, we have a rule disallowing trolling in general for two reasons. First, it's that not everyone has a thick skin, and we'd rather be welcoming to those players instead of telling them that they either need to get over it or leave. Second, it sets a bad precedent, because surely there are some comments that would get under your skin, and we can't be doing things on a case-by-case basis. Very simply, the rule is to prevent comments that are either offensive or intended to make the person angry. I can say that owen's posts did that to me and I have nothing to do with the Entertainment Team. That is the hallmark of trolling, when it doesn't just make one person mad (like an inside joke) but can objectively be seen as disgraceful.

I think perhaps you guys wanted to have accolades bestowed on you by the community for your "generosity," and for the most part, people are supportive of your contests. I'm neutral, and people like owen are opposed. Diversity is not a bad thing, when intellectual diffusion can occur in a civilized, rational manner, like it was being delivered by owen.

The issue here is that it was neither civilized nor rational. I say it was uncivilized because he could simply have asked something like, "would it be possible for Team CC to give out more months of premium in these contests, as that would be good for the community?" I say it's irrational because he must surely have known that comments like that would have warranted a response from the moderating team. He's certainly broken enough rules to know which side of the line his posts are going to be on. It's also irrational because if, as he seems to be claiming, the contests are about doing good things for the community, then why is he trying so hard to create strife?

I also think that this entire proceeding has been far more disruptive of operations than anything owen said in your thread, because a valued and respected member of the CC community has been gagged and it has set a dangerous precedent that something as trivial as minor mod sass will lead to a multi-month ban.

You seem to be unfamiliar with the escalating ban system on CC. This sort of thing happens relatively frequently (that is, minor rule violations leading to long bans if the offender has a long history).

I don't think this ban has made the CC community better in any way, quite the opposite really.

The rules are there for all to see. Whether they lead to good things or bad things for the community, it's up to you to judge. But the rules were followed to the letter here, so I don't think it's fair to blame Andy for his action.

Metsfanmax WINS!!!!

[Pirlo]

Metsfanmax WINS!!!!

[Serbia]

Owenshooter was given a 3 month forum ban. In my opinion, he has actually gotten off relatively easily.

According to the rules, owen had previously committed a Major Infraction. When? When he posted the facebook page for InsomniaRed's new boyfriend. That post was edited because it contained personal information. Here are the guidelines for personal information abuse:



Forum Guidelines

Now according to the Forum and General Rule Enforcement post, personal information abuse is a Major/Severe Infraction. Now we've all heard owen and his very vocal clan go on about their previous personal information ban. So I find it interesting that when owen posted the link to that facebook page, it was edited, and no apparent action was taken against him.

Lets all recall the Personal Information Abuse case against owen. owen knowingly and intentionally posted someone's facebook page, because it contained personal information about a CC user. Information which InsomniaRed quite obviously did NOT want made public. I say that it's obvious due to her very public and dramatic exit from CC. And owen's actions had repercussions, as we know that other CC users took the information that owen posted to actually go out and contact this person, to give that person personal information about InsomniaRed from Conquer Club. It's unknown what happened to the relationship of those real people outside of the internet, due to a post made by owen. And why did he post it? For his own gain. He so badly wanted to prove that he was right, that he had no qualms about posting personal information about someone else, for his benefit.

Seems to me, owenshooter should have already been given a Website Ban, which would have made it impossible for him to earn this 3 month forum ban in the first place. Now about this 3 month ban, I agree totally with Metsfan. (edit - great post Metsfanmax) Trolling is trolling, whether it's trolling a specific user, or trolling the site/admin/mods.

So in my opinion, the question everyone SHOULD be asking of CC and the moderators/admin is this:
Which is the more serious violation? The posting of a users personal information, with the intention of further destroying that user's reputation on this site, not caring who is hurt in the process, and for the poster's own glory; or annoying posts questioning admin's generosity while simultaneously bigging the poster's clan in comparison to the website?

Or does CC not take posting personal information seriously in all cases?

[BigBallinStalin]

ITT:

[The Voice]

So if you are giving away premium, you are a protected class?

Of course not, trolling is trolling. The point is, I find it quite difficult to believe that anyone on CC would condone someone insulting me for giving up money out of my own pocket for the good of the community. I want to hear you say that you think that type of rhetoric is OK in the very thread where I'm giving away that gift before I believe you have a case. And even if you do say that, I believe you would be in the vast minority of the community. Most people would agree that that is simply trolling. It almost seems as though people are condoning the trolling precisely because it is directed at Team CC. That's why I say it goes both ways when you talk about mods being a special class.

I think the example isn't exactly the same as what happened. Here, you as an individual would be berated (and surely, this would be trolling), whereas Owen was targeting team CC as an entity. This free premium isn't coming out of your pockets; it's coming out of the pockets of the business that is ConquerClub, correct?

[jbrettlip]

Owenshooter was given a 3 month forum ban. In my opinion, he has actually gotten off relatively easily.

According to the rules, owen had previously committed a Major Infraction. When? When he posted the facebook page for InsomniaRed's new boyfriend.

this is not factual. this information was posted by a former C&A mod, not owen. keep your stories straight. owen served 6 months for "over reporting posts", another made up andy ruling. how did he over report posts? by reporting multiple posts/wall posts by 2 CC members that were calling him the N word across the boards and on walls. owen was told team CC spent more time on him than on any other aspect of the site (now you can see why so many updates were completed during owen's 6 months ban), which is just non-sensical. anyway, he was given 6 and the 2 people that violated the bigotry guidelines multiple times were given nothing but a silent and friendly warning. please keep your stories straight. owen did not post IR's new boyfriend's FB info. he simply stated that she was a liar and was not dying (which was proven to be true). this is another made up ban by andy, because owen struck a nerve.

[Dibbun]

So if you are giving away premium, you are a protected class?

Of course not, trolling is trolling. The point is, I find it quite difficult to believe that anyone on CC would condone someone insulting me for giving up money out of my own pocket for the good of the community. I want to hear you say that you think that type of rhetoric is OK in the very thread where I'm giving away that gift before I believe you have a case. And even if you do say that, I believe you would be in the vast minority of the community. Most people would agree that that is simply trolling. It almost seems as though people are condoning the trolling precisely because it is directed at Team CC. That's why I say it goes both ways when you talk about mods being a special class.

I think there's a difference between trolling and butthurt. While owen's words apparently hurts your guys' feelings, his action was to likewise support the site by giving away free premium. He was not inhibiting your efforts in any way, rather pointing out certain differences between the way you each were going about the same goal.

It seems to me that you're making the case that because you believe you have thick skin, trolling is OK if it's aimed at you because you don't mind so much.

No, I do mind, but I will defend myself instead of trying to get someone banned for 3 months.

That's actually a good thing. However, we have a rule disallowing trolling in general for two reasons. First, it's that not everyone has a thick skin, and we'd rather be welcoming to those players instead of telling them that they either need to get over it or leave.

So you're worried about the entertainment team (the general target of owen's posts) packing up and leaving?

Second, it sets a bad precedent, because surely there are some comments that would get under your skin, and we can't be doing things on a case-by-case basis.

Oh I know you don't decide things on a case-by-case basis, a reason why I received a ridiculous warning for trolling and the context of my statements, or even if the target was even offended, was entirely irrelevant.

Very simply, the rule is to prevent comments that are either offensive or intended to make the person angry.

Is this kindergarten? In game chat I can call someone a fucking retarded cunt but on the forums I can't say someone is butthurt? -and yes, I did get warned precisely for that.

I can say that owen's posts did that to me and I have nothing to do with the Entertainment Team. That is the hallmark of trolling, when it doesn't just make one person mad (like an inside joke) but can objectively be seen as disgraceful.

Oh god, it was so disgraceful that owen was advertising his own premium giveaway in the sacred thread.

The issue here is that it was neither civilized nor rational. I say it was uncivilized because he could simply have asked something like, "would it be possible for Team CC to give out more months of premium in these contests, as that would be good for the community?" I say it's irrational because he must surely have known that comments like that would have warranted a response from the moderating team. He's certainly broken enough rules to know which side of the line his posts are going to be on. It's also irrational because if, as he seems to be claiming, the contests are about doing good things for the community, then why is he trying so hard to create strife?

Why are you letting him create strife? Why do you care? So he bitches and moans a bit, why are you getting so upset about it? There are a lot of threads on here where the debate/argument/fury goes on for pages and it gets worked out. A better option would have been to ignore him, debate him, or give him a 24 hour vacation, because now there's a lot of unresolved tension related to community perception of Team CC.

You seem to be unfamiliar with the escalating ban system on CC. This sort of thing happens relatively frequently (that is, minor rule violations leading to long bans if the offender has a long history).

That's pretty dumb, because you have a very liberal definition of "minor," and really it seems like you don't want people to post on the boards at all unless it's mindless happy drivel.

The rules are there for all to see. Whether they lead to good things or bad things for the community, it's up to you to judge. But the rules were followed to the letter here, so I don't think it's fair to blame Andy for his action.

Unfortunate that discretion couldn't be used, that someone could use some critical thinking to determine if the punishment fit the crime, or even if a crime occurred.