The worst map on CC

[Bruceswar]

aww.. dustbowl haters started this thread - It was discussed during development to start decaying territs as neutrals, but ended up decided against. You might get lucky, you might not. Part of the fun.

It is not one of my favorites, but I'll play a game on it from time to time---I don't mind the random luck of the decay---every once in a while at least.

I'll have to start playing a couple of the maps that have come out over the past couple of months...so I can form an opinion on those---and see how they do against maps I like and dislike...


--Andy

Also, the map is very winnable even with decay taking effect, I dropped 4 or 5 in the decay and still took the game playing it dubs...

Austerlitz is a little confusing connection wise, I'll give you guys that. A couple of times I wasn't sure how the connections worked, but having BOB 100% solves all of those problems, so it still remains a good addition imho.

You fail to realize not every game is a doubles. In a 1 vs 1, you can be really screwed by the drop, or even in a multiplayer singles, but Dustbowl is not the worst by far.

[TheForgivenOne]

Wow, lots of opinions.

My least favorites :

Discworld- What a piece of crap, i looked at it, and went AAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHH MY EYES X_X

The rail series- Even though i won on europe, i personally did not understand it until round 7 or 8, and still didn't like the flow of traffic

Conquer Man- Impossibly long for a 1v1. Played it Real time, nearly took 2 hours. Need to try it on Dubs before i further my opinion on it

High Seas- Didn't like the design, the play of it. Personally not a fan of it.

Imperium Romanum- Confused the crap out of me. Played it twice.... still have no clue how it works XD

[cairnswk]

....
The rail series- Even though i won on europe, i personally did not understand it until round 7 or 8, and still didn't like the flow of traffic...

Sorry TheForgivenOne, but Rail Europe does not equal the Rail Series. There is also Rail USA and Rail Australia that you haven't played in the Rail Series.
The flow of traffic was designed so that it would be somewhat different from Rail USA and acts as dead end buffers on some lines.

[TheForgivenOne]

....
The rail series- Even though i won on europe, i personally did not understand it until round 7 or 8, and still didn't like the flow of traffic...

Sorry TheForgivenOne, but Rail Europe does not equal the Rail Series. There is also Rail USA and Rail Australia that you haven't played in the Rail Series.
The flow of traffic was designed so that it would be somewhat different from Rail USA and acts as dead end buffers on some lines.

lol i know that But i have watched people play on USA and Australia. didn't quite like it either Could be great maps to others, but to me, personally, just don't like it

No offense

[Qwert]

Imperium Romanum- Confused the crap out of me. Played it twice.... still have no clue how it works XD

This map is confused ,we can play doubles to find what confuse you

[cairnswk]

...
lol i know that But i have watched people play on USA and Australia. didn't quite like it either Could be great maps to others, but to me, personally, just don't like it

No offense

Non taken, but just wanted to clear up about the rail series...

[the.killing.44]

Agree-expecialy for Classic Art map,who after mine investigation(when i create Map Maker Index),i find that this map create CA and "elite" map maker,and they spend one day in creation of this map.When i say to hem that this is not correct to other map maker,they only laught on me,and show that they have power to do what every they want,and what is worst 6 map maker get medal for this one map. this map brake all rules in Map foundry,and only because they Mods(CA -cartographer assistant-man in blue)they can brake rules.All other map maker need to be kick in ass for 6 month to create map who need to pass all required thing-gameplay-graphic-xml-people support,but only this map no need to have this.
If you think that you can find topic-CLassic Art-then good luck ,because this not exist.
Classic Art map need to take same way(4-6 month)and you will get much better map,instead this map ,who is apsolutly unacepted.
If you create something in 24h-this can not be good.

Cue the token qwert "dice are a conspiracy against me" rant. Really, you don't have to drag every thread off-topic with your "everyone is out to get me / slow my mapping or CC-playing progress down" spiels.

[Incandenza]

Cue the token qwert "dice are a conspiracy against me" rant. Really, you don't have to drag every thread off-topic with your "everyone is out to get me / slow my mapping or CC-playing progress down" spiels.

Maybe qwert's just commemorating the 1-year anniversary of the star chamber in his offbeat way...

[Qwert]

Cue the token qwert "dice are a conspiracy against me" rant. Really, you don't have to drag every thread off-topic with your "everyone is out to get me / slow my mapping or CC-playing progress down" spiels.

Are you say that im a lier? This is what im say its true.
When i create Map MAker Index,i check all map medals,and first what i find its that 6 people get medal for Classic Art,when i try to find Classic Art topic, i find that this topic not exist.
And this is not off-topic-read tittle-WORST MAP ON CC.
People say what not like-and classic art have one of worst graphic,and theme of this map its quite strange. Please just say openly,that im a liar,and that everything what im say its not true,that this map have same treatment like other maps,and that this map have best graphic in CC.Im quit post in Map foundry over 6 month now, because this things,and if you think that i need to quit posting in General Disscusion also,i will gladly fulfill your request.

Incandenza,i respect you,but you are one of 6 member who get medal for Classic Art-do you realy think that this map deserve to be in game,when you know that this map have very bad graphic? from you im expect honest answer.

[sheapaul]

...The rail series- Even though i won on europe, i personally did not understand it until round 7 or 8, and still didn't like the flow of traffic...

I agree, the rail series for me is the worst.

[Incandenza]

Incandenza,i respect you,but you are one of 6 member who get medal for Classic Art-do you realy think that this map deserve to be in game,when you know that this map have very bad graphic? from you im expect honest answer.

Honest answer? Well, classic art is certainly not the best map on the site, but it's better that classic shapes, and it's certainly better than nothing. And really, given all the other issues we had to deal with, I don't think how we could have done it much better. So yes, I do think it deserves to be on the site. Is it the best possible map? Of course not. But it was the best alternative in a crappy situation.

As far as the medals... I think management just wanted to give us a little something in recognition of the fact that we pulled together under insane circumstances and created something playable. Am I the least qualified map medal recipient in CC history? Probably, but that's not really the point, is it?

[the.killing.44]

Cue the token qwert "dice are a conspiracy against me" rant. Really, you don't have to drag every thread off-topic with your "everyone is out to get me / slow my mapping or CC-playing progress down" spiels.

Are you say that im a lier? This is what im say its true.
When i create Map MAker Index,i check all map medals,and first what i find its that 6 people get medal for Classic Art,when i try to find Classic Art topic, i find that this topic not exist.
And this is not off-topic-read tittle-WORST MAP ON CC.
People say what not like-and classic art have one of worst graphic,and theme of this map its quite strange. Please just say openly,that im a liar,and that everything what im say its not true,that this map have same treatment like other maps,and that this map have best graphic in CC.Im quit post in Map foundry over 6 month now, because this things,and if you think that i need to quit posting in General Disscusion also,i will gladly fulfill your request.

Incandenza,i respect you,but you are one of 6 member who get medal for Classic Art-do you realy think that this map deserve to be in game,when you know that this map have very bad graphic? from you im expect honest answer.

"Classic Art is the worst map, for reason x being something about the map" — on-topic
"Classic Art is the worst map, for reason x being I believe the mods are out to slow me down, and that since more than one person got a medal, blahdeblah" — off-topic

You can argue that Classic Art is the worst map—I disagree with that, by the way—but that's not really what you're arguing, I'm afriad…

[Mr Changsha]

I could draw a better freakin' world map in 30 minutes. Classic art is like vomit with lines.

I much prefer shapes..at least it doesn't remind me of the state of my toilet bowl on a Monday morning.

[Incandenza]

I could draw a better freakin' world map in 30 minutes.

No, you couldn't. And even if you could, many subsequent hours would be spent dicking around with terit labels and centering army coordinates and doing all the little things that turns a drawing into an actual playable CC map. There's more to this than just graphics, folks.

[Mr Changsha]

I could draw a better freakin' world map in 30 minutes.

No, you couldn't. And even if you could, many subsequent hours would be spent dicking around with terit labels and centering army coordinates and doing all the little things that turns a drawing into an actual playable CC map. There's more to this than just graphics, folks.

Maybe, but who thought it would be a good idea to replace CC's favourite map with an effort knocked up in 24 hours and then think "My work here is done." and leave it at that for, what, a year???

Or was the lawyer's stipulation that CC could keep a representation of the Risk board but that it must look as shit as possible? I can't think of another reason as to why Lack would publish that 24 hour knock up and then KEEP it for this long.

Classic Art is by far the worst CC map visually, as I said it is like I puked all over my screen. It makes me nauseous to even think about it.

Oh and the 'art' territories...pretentious twaddle and a bloody nightmare for team games.

The foundry may like to believe that the constant churning out of derivative maps (but with new pretty colours!!!) is the life-blood of CC but in fact it was the classic map, with a bit of 2.1 thrown in for some variety. We've spent the last year attempting to play on a map (CC's most popular map no less) that looks like the contents of my lower intestine.

Would it have killed the foundry to spend a couple of weeks on it? Apparently so. I suspect this reflects the foundry's bias towards the creation of new maps...you can try and force us to believe that the classic map isn't the business, you can make us play on a version of it that, frankly, looks terrible and has whoopsy do la de la territory names (Ooh Art History...so manly) but those with any sense here still know that the vast majority of CC's new maps are pointless rip offs of perfection.

[MrBenn]

I could draw a better freakin' world map in 30 minutes.

No, you couldn't. And even if you could, many subsequent hours would be spent dicking around with terit labels and centering army coordinates and doing all the little things that turns a drawing into an actual playable CC map. There's more to this than just graphics, folks.

Maybe, but who thought it would be a good idea to replace CC's favourite map with an effort knocked up in 24 hours and then think "My work here is done." and leave it at that for, what, a year???

Or was the lawyer's stipulation that CC could keep a representation of the Risk board but that it must look as shit as possible? I can't think of another reason as to why Lack would publish that 24 hour knock up and then KEEP it for this long.

Classic Art is by far the worst CC map visually, as I said it is like I puked all over my screen. It makes me nauseous to even think about it.

Oh and the 'art' territories...pretentious twaddle and a bloody nightmare for team games.

The foundry may like to believe that the constant churning out of derivative maps (but with new pretty colours!!!) is the life-blood of CC but in fact it was the classic map, with a bit of 2.1 thrown in for some variety. We've spent the last year attempting to play on a map (CC's most popular map no less) that looks like the contents of my lower intestine.

Would it have killed the foundry to spend a couple of weeks on it? Apparently so. I suspect this reflects the foundry's bias towards the creation of new maps...you can try and force us to believe that the classic map isn't the business, you can make us play on a version of it that, frankly, looks terrible and has whoopsy do la de la territory names (Ooh Art History...so manly) but those with any sense here still know that the vast majority of CC's new maps are pointless rip offs of perfection.

First of all, Classic Art was not a "Foundry" initiative - the map was pulled together in 24 hours, because that is what was stipulated by the website owner/manager/creator. Those of us involved happened to be in the wrong place at the right time - we know full-well that it's not the best work we could achieve, but with the constraints at the time (which included things such as the fact that the map couldn't represent a map of the world or any real place), it's not a bad effort. It looks like it was a rush job, because in all honesty, it was. Of course we could have done better with more time - but that was time we did not have.

None of us know what goes on inside the turtle's shell, but after a lot of persuasion, classic is finally getting the revamp it deserves. There will always be groups of people who would like the process to be run differently, or for the map to look like something else... But at the end of the day, when push comes to shove, as clear as day, you have to walk the extra mile and like it or lump it.

<me scratches his head and tries to remember what this thread was really about...>

[sully800]

I really like the Australia map (back in the day I begged Keyogi to give me photoshop lessons, though he declined politely) but I suck at it! I'm not sure what the deal is, but I can't win on that map. Maybe THAT is the worst on CC?

[Juan_Bottom]

Am I the least qualified map medal recipient in CC history? Probably, but that's not really the point, is it?

Sig it! jk?
I think that was part of qwert's overall point.

I don't think how we could have done it much better.

Is it the best possible map? Of course not. But it was the best alternative in a crappy situation.

There's more to this than just graphics, folks

the map was pulled together in 24 hours,

It looks like it was a rush job, because in all honesty, it was.

I think part of the point is that qwert spends months getting maps quenched... maps that look better than classic art in their first draft,... yet somehow 6 people get a medal for a map that isn't up to CC standards. I don't think qwert would have a point if you guys put up the rush job and then put a copy of it into the foundry to work on the graphics. But you didn't do that, you just put up a rushed map and called it ok.

This is on point.

Or was the lawyer's stipulation that CC could keep a representation of the Risk board but that it must look as shit as possible? I can't think of another reason as to why Lack would publish that 24 hour knock up and then KEEP it for this long.

Classic Art is by far the worst CC map visually

Why Keep it?
I understand completely that we had to have a better version of classic. And I understand that we had to rush it. But did we have to end there? I don't see how 6 individual people all deserve a medal for that while other map makers have to spend months putting up with foundry BS to get their medal.

when i try to find Classic Art topic, i find that this topic not exist.
And this is not off-topic-read tittle-WORST MAP ON CC.

He has a point here too. There was no discussion at all outside of your tiny circle. You rewarded yourselves for work that is sub par to any others.

"Classic Art is the worst map, for reason x being I believe the mods are out to slow me down, and that since more than one person got a medal, blahdeblah" — off-topic

He's completely on topic.
Classic Art is the worst map because it looks like hell, somehow no one ever thought to update the graphics, and there was never any discussion on the matter. Basically it was 7 guys high-fiving each other saying "I am so great" while everyone else is like WTF is this? Though again, it would have been alright if someone had been working on an update to it.
And Qwert's right about it being unfair to the other skilled cartographers.


Qwert actually changed my mind on this matter. I agree with him.

[finchboy]

Conquerman... why would ya? I mean really, endless tedium! World 2:1 Great play, looks like crap.

F

[the.killing.44]

And the rest of us don't spend months making our maps? I'm pretty sure all but one (Inc, not that he's not more helpful in the Foundry than 90%+ of the rest of the posters) had a map previously quenched/would spend months making (a) map(s) following that October. You're obviously not familiar with qwert's mindset that since he doesn't get his maps moved as soon as he deems them done, it's all a great conspiracy against him. The Foundry may work slow, but it's not just him. And just because one map—the centerpiece of any RISK variant, I might add—was allowed, no, needed to bypass the pace, doesn't warrant dragging this thread way off-topic, which it has. Like I said before, you can argue Classic Art is the worst map on the site all you want, but adding in "waah it does things my map wasn't allowed to—the mods must hate me" doesn't positively add to the discussion.

[obliterationX]

I can't stand the rail maps.

And I always seem to get those maps on the "Random" setting!

[Juan_Bottom]

And just because one map—the centerpiece of any RISK variant, I might add—was allowed, no, needed to bypass the pace, doesn't warrant dragging this thread way off-topic, which it has.

No it hasn't. And please pay closer attention to what I say.
I agreed it needed to bypass the pace. That is not the argument that I put forward as to why it is the worst map.

And don't be so stuffy. GD is the most boring place on CC because no one is allowed to go anywhere near off-topic. Which again, we haven't done.

Like I said before, you can argue Classic Art is the worst map on the site all you want, but adding in "waah it does things my map wasn't allowed to—the mods must hate me" doesn't positively add to the discussion.

We didn't say that... you said it and act like it's our argument.
And I should add that the title of the thread is "worst map of CC" so how positive do you expect this thread to be?

[Qwert]

by the.killing.44 » Fri Oct 16, 2009 10:13 pm

And the rest of us don't spend months making our maps? I'm pretty sure all but one (Inc, not that he's not more helpful in the Foundry than 90%+ of the rest of the posters) had a map previously quenched/would spend months making (a) map(s) following that October. You're obviously not familiar with qwert's mindset that since he doesn't get his maps moved as soon as he deems them done, it's all a great conspiracy against him. The Foundry may work slow, but it's not just him. And just because one map—the centerpiece of any RISK variant, I might add—was allowed, no, needed to bypass the pace, doesn't warrant dragging this thread way off-topic, which it has. Like I said before, you can argue Classic Art is the worst map on the site all you want, but adding in "waah it does things my map wasn't allowed to—the mods must hate me" doesn't positively add to the discussion.

You are realy amazing-of topic?
You are only person who seems to be insulting with mine oppinion abouth Classic Art map.
Some people say that Ardennes or what i see in last post Imperium romanum map are worst map in CC-and do i jump and start screaming. If someon dont understand mine maps,i can provide help,not jump to Arguing,like you do.
Incadenza and Mrbeen very nice give explanation abouth Classic Art, and i dont understand why you so upset abouth mine oppinion.
I spend almost 3 years on map making,and i realy dont want to know time you spend on making maps.Everybody here can give oppinion what they think that some map is worst map in CC.
You start this arguing not me-and realy you dont have any reasons to be upset,because you not create this map.

[the.killing.44]

And just because one map—the centerpiece of any RISK variant, I might add—was allowed, no, needed to bypass the pace, doesn't warrant dragging this thread way off-topic, which it has.

No it hasn't. And please pay closer attention to what I say.
I agreed it needed to bypass the pace. That is not the argument that I put forward as to why it is the worst map.

And don't be so stuffy. GD is the most boring place on CC because no one is allowed to go anywhere near off-topic. Which again, we haven't done.

Like I said before, you can argue Classic Art is the worst map on the site all you want, but adding in "waah it does things my map wasn't allowed to—the mods must hate me" doesn't positively add to the discussion.

We didn't say that... you said it and act like it's our argument.
And I should add that the title of the thread is "worst map of CC" so how positive do you expect this thread to be?

Okay, firstly the majority of what I said about qwert's whinging and bitching happens/-ed in the Foundry or earlier in this thread. And that's what I reference, for the most part. I'll allow that his latest one or two posts were more about challenging me to call him a liar…

I think you're the one who needs to pay closer attention to what I wrote. I put an example of an on-topic and off-topic argument against Classic Art: yours is on-topic; qwert's is not. Yours lacks the crying about conspiracies and mods; I can't say the same for qwert. I see your argument (not that I agree with it); it's hard to see qwert's past the conspiracies that are omnipresent in his posts.

==============

Okay, NewPost by qwert » less than a minute ago

You are realy amazing-of topic?
"i find that this map create CA and "elite" map maker,and they spend one day in creation of this map. … this map brake all rules in Map foundry,and only because they Mods(CA -cartographer assistant-man in blue)they can brake rules.All other map maker need to be kick in ass for 6 month to create map who need to pass all required thing-gameplay-graphic-xml-people support,but only this map no need to have this."
I wonder who wrote that. Sure sounds off-topic, since when did this turn into a thread about elitism and the mods? We have plenty of threads for those topics…

You are only person who seems to be insulting with mine oppinion abouth Classic Art map.
Insulting? I'm trying to convince you otherwise while staying on topic and not going off about elitism. I guess I took your bait.

Some people say that Ardennes or what i see in last post Imperium romanum map are worst map in CC-and do i jump and start screaming. If someon dont understand mine maps,i can provide help,not jump to Arguing,like you do.
Uhh, what? You're going to help people who don't understand your maps … good, good. The topic of this thread is a subjective matter, and as such I'd think it would warrant and even welcome arguments on topic?

Incadenza and Mrbeen very nice give explanation abouth Classic Art, and i dont understand why you so upset abouth mine oppinion.
I'm not upset about your opinion about Classic Art, per say, but the connotations you bring with it—elitism et al.

I spend almost 3 years on map making,and i realy dont want to know time you spend on making maps.
Uhh, little less than a year, I guess. I wish this had to do with anything.

Everybody here can give oppinion what they think that some map is worst map in CC.
Yes, very true. But that's not all you're doing—no, you have your mod-hating ordeal to bring into the matter.

You start this arguing not me-and realy you dont have any reasons to be upset,because you not create this map.
Are you upset over the map? Yes, yes you are. Did you create this map? No, "you not create this map." I suppose I'm just as justified as you to my opinions.

Here's my point: I understand how the process in which Classic Art was born is on-topic, but the off-topic elitism and mod rants displayed in this post don't belong in this topic.

[DBandit70]

I love dustbowl, a great 3 or 4 player map, but if I was to select my least favorite it is luxemburg. It is way to small, too much depends on dice and dice alone, little to no room for any kind of strategy