Is it racism?

[natty dread]

Can someone tell me just what the fuck this is about?

It's about me and StephenB receiving a warning and accusations of "racism" basically for using the word "black" in a post with no context or implication of it being used as a derogatory term or even as a term describing a racial group.



Btw, shame on that country near Serbia: Monte N***ro, for giving their country such a racistic name! How's that for offensive! And what about N***ria in Africa? Don't they have any shame!

We need to immediately take down the maps Europe 1914 and World 2.1 for featuring these countries as territories! If we can't use the words on the forums, how is it that the words can freely be used in CC maps? It's offensive I tell you!

/endsarcasm

[2dimes]

i have a black dog

Most people call it a cat.

[clapper011]

Can someone tell me just what the fuck this is about?

It's about me and StephenB receiving a warning and accusations of "racism" basically for using the word "black" in a post with no context or implication of it being used as a derogatory term or even as a term describing a racial group.



Btw, shame on that country near Serbia: Monte N***ro, for giving their country such a racistic name! How's that for offensive! And what about N***ria in Africa? Don't they have any shame!

We need to immediately take down the maps Europe 1914 and World 2.1 for featuring these countries as territories! If we can't use the words on the forums, how is it that the words can freely be used in CC maps? It's offensive I tell you!

/endsarcasm

um no... re read your warnings guys. It was the content in which you both used the wording "negro-bumping"....... in this thread:
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=96778&view=unread#unread
but now if this thread continues in the direction it is going (spam, and off topic) it shall be locked.

[natty dread]

um no... re read your warnings guys. It was the content in which you both used the wording "negro-bumping".......

Right. And the word "negro" means black. Quite simply. The colour black. Nowhere was it even implied that this word would have been used in any derogatory sense. You have to put things in context.

So if I go to a vacation in Monte Negro, I can't tell about it in CC forums?

As I said, I do not wish to antagonize any moderators, as I feel you are generally doing a great job. But being falsely accused of racism does not go well with me, as I have said, I want nothing to do with racists or racism, I hate racism and all other forms of discrimination. Thus I find it insulting that I'm practically being labeled as a racist.

That is "what the f*** this thread is about".

Also, I feel StephenB said it quite well:

There was absolutely nothing in that thread that degraded any racial groups. No one so much as implied that one race is better than another. Not racism, case closed.

By complaining about every little comment, you make people more racist. People lose a lot of sympathy for the victims of real racism when everybody cries "racism!" when there is none.

[Falkomagno]

A question...say Black to a black person...is racism?? really, I'm serious here....

In spanish we call them negros, is that wrong too??

[2dimes]

A question...say Black to a black person...is racism?? really, I'm serious here....

In spanish we call them negros, is that wrong too??

Yeah it is in English North America now unless you're at least 60 years old.

[natty dread]

A question...say Black to a black person...is racism?? really, I'm serious here....

In spanish we call them negros, is that wrong too??

Yeah it is in English North America now unless you're at least 60 years old.

Too bad this is a Canadian site...

[72o]

EDIT: removed because of the looming vacation.

[Master Fenrir]

um no... re read your warnings guys. It was the content in which you both used the wording "negro-bumping".......

Right. And the word "negro" means black. Quite simply. The colour black.

The word "negro" means black in many latin countries; however, we speak English here, and in most English-speaking countries, it is understood that "negro" is an ethnic slur, and has been for the past 50 years.

You say it was taken out of context, but even in the context, it wasn't funny or really appropriate. It looked like you were trying to have some word fun by switching "negro" and "necro," but if that's the case...why? The colour black bumping? That's not funny, nor does it make much sense.

I don't believe that you were trying to be racist, but you should have known better than to use the word "negro" in any context in an English-speaking forum unless the meaning of the word and its offensiveness is in discussion, such as it is now.

[72o]

Some of my family members have passed away. Therefore, I find the prefix necro- to be highly offensive, when used to describe something as obviously inanimate as a forum thread.

Prejudice against dead threads by live threads should not be tolerated. All use of the prefix necro- should be banned.

[natty dread]

I don't believe that you were trying to be racist, but you should have known better than to use the word "negro" in any context in an English-speaking forum unless the meaning of the word and its offensiveness is in discussion, such as it is now.

So, if I'm going on a vacation to Monte Negro...

Or, more aptly, let's say I'm asking for help on a game of Europe 1914, and I'd want to ask "should I auto that stack on Monte Negro" ...

what do I do?

Or let's say I'm out drinking and decide to drink a bottle of Gato Negro... (a quite nice red wine, fyi)

Anyway you get the point.

And yes, while I do understand that it was perhaps not the best of jokes, it was just the kind of stuff you post in the middle of the night, sleep-deprived, when everything seems funny, but it most certainly wasn't meant as a racistic slur, nor do I feel it to be fair to accuse me of racism based on that joke. Nor does it certainly seem fair to issue me a warning based on it.

[Georgerx7di]

Let me try to put a final word on all this. We can't quote the post in question because it was mod edited. Basically natty asked is negro-bumping, bumping black threads.

Negro does mean black in Spanish, however from my reading it is specifically associated with black people (Spanish speakers please chime in here), it would appear that this is not the word that you would use to say black car or black shoes. It seems that in some languages it is derogatory (Portuguese for example) and in others it is not.

Having cleared that part up, natty, you knew you were walking a fine line and it was a stupid thing to do. Not sure if you were looking to get a controversial debate or not, but if not perhaps you should have avoided the use of a word that common sense tells you might arouse controversy.

As for racism. I have yet to find a good definition for it, so I will give you mine. The word racism comes from the word race of course. So this is how I see it. If you make a judgment about people, (e.g. purple people are good cooks) then it is a racist comment in my opinion. Assuming that there was actually a race of purple people.

One final note, most people who are racist hide it well, like Bill O'rielly and the jersey guys from 97.3 fm. 2 dimes comments make me think that he is racist where as natty's comments make me think that he just likes to argue. Obliteration's comment "snigger" seems racist to me because I don't think he would have used that word if he didn't think it sounded like the other word. In fact it's so uncommon that my browser is telling me that it's spelled wrong.

I have 4 people on foe for comments that I deem to be racist, here they are.

azezzo
mbohn2
ReichZealand
theshaftwow

[Master Fenrir]

Some of my family members have passed away. Therefore, I find the prefix necro- to be highly offensive, when used to describe something as obviously inanimate as a forum thread.

Prejudice against dead threads by live threads should not be tolerated. All use of the prefix necro- should be banned.

That's not analogous at all.

Necro refers to death, something that all people experience. It is universal.

Negro, in the English language, specifically refers to people of African descent and connotes their history of several hundred years worth of slavery, discrimination, and segregation. It's not a prefix, it doesn't modify something else, it means what it means and what it means is commonly perceived as uncool.

Seriously, that was a horrible comparison.

So, if I'm going on a vacation to Monte Negro...

Or, more aptly, let's say I'm asking for help on a game of Europe 1914, and I'd want to ask "should I auto that stack on Monte Negro" ...

what do I do?

Or let's say I'm out drinking and decide to drink a bottle of Gato Negro... (a quite nice red wine, fyi)

Anyway you get the point.

It's the difference between an proper noun and a common noun. It's cool if it's part of a proper noun.

Anyway you get the point.

And yes, while I do understand that it was perhaps not the best of jokes, it was just the kind of stuff you post in the middle of the night, sleep-deprived, when everything seems funny, but it most certainly wasn't meant as a racistic slur, nor do I feel it to be fair to accuse me of racism based on that joke. Nor does it certainly seem fair to issue me a warning based on it.

We're all good, dude. Like I said, I think you're innocent of racism. I think the reason you got warned is because if your post had been ignored, the exact opposite of this thread could have happened. Somebody who got offended could have started a thread calling you a racist and accusing CC of harboring racists by not warning/banning you. That situation would probably be worse than this one. So the options were:

1) Clapper can look like a stern mama and issue you or warning, or
2) CC can look like a place where ethnic slurs are cool.

Option 1 was the logical choice. It sucks that it happened, and we all have middle of the night, sleep deprived moments, so I doubt many people will hold it against you. I think it was a lose/lose situation for both you and Team CC, but it had to be done. I feel you, though, it sucks being the example.

[72o]

Some of my family members have passed away. Therefore, I find the prefix necro- to be highly offensive, when used to describe something as obviously inanimate as a forum thread.

Prejudice against dead threads by live threads should not be tolerated. All use of the prefix necro- should be banned.

That's not analogous at all.

Necro refers to death, something that all people experience. It is universal.

Negro, in the English language, specifically refers to people of African descent and connotes their history of several hundred years worth of slavery, discrimination, and segregation. It's not a prefix, it doesn't modify something else, it means what it means and what it means is commonly perceived as uncool.

Seriously, that was a horrible comparison.

But we haven't all experienced death, yet. How dare we take our lives for granted, and call attention to the fact that dead people are life-challenged!

I like to eat Frijoles Negro. With some white rice. That's good stuff there.

[Timminz]

I don't believe that you were trying to be racist, but you should have known better than to use the word "negro" in any context in an English-speaking forum unless the meaning of the word and its offensiveness is in discussion, such as it is now.

So, if I'm going on a vacation to Monte Negro...

Or, more aptly, let's say I'm asking for help on a game of Europe 1914, and I'd want to ask "should I auto that stack on Monte Negro" ...

what do I do?

Or let's say I'm out drinking and decide to drink a bottle of Gato Negro... (a quite nice red wine, fyi)

If you can't tell the difference between those examples, and the way you guys were using the word, you're stupider than you look.

[Master Fenrir]

But we haven't all experienced death, yet. How dare we take our lives for granted, and call attention to the fact that dead people are life-challenged!

U.S. anti-discrimitation laws protects against discrimination based on race, ethnicity, religion or sect, color, national origin, age, sex, familial status, sexual orientation, gender identity, disability status, veteran status, and genetic Information.

CC is a Canadian site, but I imagine thair laws are similar. Dead people aren't included. Hyperbole or not, we can say "necro" all we want. That's why the analogy sucks.

[72o]

But we haven't all experienced death, yet. How dare we take our lives for granted, and call attention to the fact that dead people are life-challenged!

U.S. anti-discrimitation laws protects against discrimination based on race, ethnicity, religion or sect, color, national origin, age, sex, familial status, sexual orientation, gender identity, disability status, veteran status, and genetic Information.

CC is a Canadian site, but I imagine thair laws are similar. Dead people aren't included. Hyperbole or not, we can say "necro" all we want. That's why the analogy sucks.

Where does ugliness fit into that? I like making fun of ugly people.

[freakns]

Necro refers to death, something that all people experience. It is universal.

Negro, in the English language, specifically refers to people of African descent and connotes their history of several hundred years worth of slavery, discrimination, and segregation. It's not a prefix, it doesn't modify something else, it means what it means and what it means is commonly perceived as uncool.

Necro is greek word(prefix actually), not english. negro, if refers to people actually isnt spanish word, its portuguese, again not english.
as for english, negro was adopted word for non arab africans until people in US started to use it as racist term. her historical heritage in pre 1950s is not racist, it was simply term used to describe black skin people(and yes, those people were mostly slaves, but so did many white people, at least in Europe...). so you cant say what youve said, you should change it to: "Negro, in tUS, specifically refers to people of African descent and connotes their history of several hundred years worth of slavery, discrimination, and segregation. It's not a prefix, it doesn't modify something else, it means what it means and what it means is commonly perceived as uncool." so not in english language, in US.
my point: if anyone outside of US is using Negro to describe anything is not necessarily racist. you people just have tendency to overlook fact that there is a world outside US...

[Snorri1234]

If you found any of my comments "racist" or "offensive", then frankly I have to say you were just looking for an excuse to feel offended. I would never make racistic comments, I hate racism.

I love ["N"word]s in fact I have several ["N"word]s as friends. They have been in my house even.

I EVEN LET THEM USE MY TOILET!

[72o]

I don't let ugly people use my toilet. They have cooties.

[mpjh]

That depends on whether they take offense.

[the.killing.44]

Seriously? You used negro…what did you expect.

[Deathwind]

People make much too big a deal out of simple small things like this.

[natty dread]

We're all good, dude. Like I said, I think you're innocent of racism. I think the reason you got warned is because if your post had been ignored, the exact opposite of this thread could have happened. Somebody who got offended could have started a thread calling you a racist and accusing CC of harboring racists by not warning/banning you. That situation would probably be worse than this one. So the options were:

1) Clapper can look like a stern mama and issue you or warning, or
2) CC can look like a place where ethnic slurs are cool.

Option 1 was the logical choice. It sucks that it happened, and we all have middle of the night, sleep deprived moments, so I doubt many people will hold it against you. I think it was a lose/lose situation for both you and Team CC, but it had to be done. I feel you, though, it sucks being the example.

Thanks for that, M.F. (hmm... I'm not sure if it's correct to abbreviate your name like that )

You do have a point there.

Though actually, I didn't start this thread looking for an argument. I merely got pissed at being called a racist... even if the moderator didn't mean it like that, even if it is so that she had no choice but to do it, it still bugs me... Seeing a thread with your post in it with a modedit stating "racism" as a reason doesn't feel good, especially if you're not guilty of any racism.

So I started the thread because I wanted to "clear the air" so to speak, so that no one will get the wrong idea, and to express my stand on racism: it sucks, racists are despicaple people, and so forth.

It would have been nice if the moderator who issued the warning would have posted what you posted M.F., but I guess you can't have it all...

In conclusion: posting the word "Negro" is wrong regardless of context - unless you're talking about Monte Negro. Shouldn't have done that, would have saved us all lots of drama, will not do it again, end of story.

This thread can be closed now for all I care. Show's over, thanks for watching everyone.

[Master Fenrir]

Necro is greek word(prefix actually), not english.

I never said it was English.

negro, if refers to people actually isnt spanish word, its portuguese, again not english.

I know. That's why I said "latin countries."

as for english, negro was adopted word for non arab africans until people in US started to use it as racist term. her historical heritage in pre 1950s is not racist, it was simply term used to describe black skin people(and yes, those people were mostly slaves, but so did many white people, at least in Europe...). so you cant say what youve said, you should change it to: "Negro, in tUS, specifically refers to people of African descent and connotes their history of several hundred years worth of slavery, discrimination, and segregation. It's not a prefix, it doesn't modify something else, it means what it means and what it means is commonly perceived as uncool." so not in english language, in US.

Sorry, I was referring to the U.S., Canada, and England, since those are three of the largest English-speaking countries. I know there's another 50 or so, but I was mainly referring to those three. However, a few quick MSN conversations just now confirmed that "negro" is offensive in England and Canada, so it's not just the U.S. I over-generalized, but I was correct about what I meant.

you people just have tendency to overlook fact that there is a world outside US...

Obviously I didn't. Now you're the one over-generalizing.

Thanks for that, M.F. (hmm... I'm not sure if it's correct to abbreviate your name like that )

High five for being cool, dude. And no worries about "M.F." I get that a lot.