Petition For Dugcarr1 Back. Sign Up and Stick It To the Man

[t.e.c]

[Sammy gags]

I will sign for Subjekt...I know he would have said something like, "Dug is a political prisoner, free him you commies"
but I hope you realize that even if a miracle happened & the mods changed their minds & everybody was begging for dug back, he still wouldn't come back

[Roger Dodger]

let Dugcarr1 play.

[Sammy gags]

Don't worry about it RD, it is all worked out...
I love everybody on CC...especially you RD ... & I am sure dug does too, regardless of what has been said to them & I would not try to harm them, but what I learned through this is that the feeling is not mutual & that some people really do want people kicked off this site. This hurt me more than any other flame could, so before you go & call dug the bad guy, take a second & think about it

[autoload]

So... are the points system going to change now or what?

[Fireside Poet]

Can we get a thread started to get stevegriffiths23 back instead? I guarantee he would get more votes than duggy.

http://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=7124

Even getting busted, he way outclasses duggy. R.I.P.

[DavSav]

Don't worry about it RD, it is all worked out...
I love everybody on CC...especially you RD ... & I am sure dug does too, regardless of what has been said to them & I would not try to harm them, but what I learned through this is that the feeling is not mutual & that some people really do want people kicked off this site. This hurt me more than any other flame could, so before you go & call dug the bad guy, take a second & think about it

He might be a stand up guy in RL. But as far as sportsmanship and respect for other people in CC he lacks more than a little. Trying to throw a tantrum like he did, well what can I say. Childish

[subjekt]

OK here is the truth of it all in my opinion. What dugcarr1 did was wrong no doubt ( I believe I once used a "advanced strategy" line ) nevertheless the mods have crossed the line with the complete banning of Dugcarr1 . Now I have to ask you people do you feel safe when Lack the "owner" of the site can just delete your account? So whom has given him absolute authority over us? NOT THE f*ck ME !! I AM NOT A SUBSERVIANT LAMB LACK YOU FUCKING ASSHOLE !! I am sorry however I refuse to give into the ways which alot of others here have found as ok. It is you which gives the power to these people and at the same time it is you people which can take it away. All around me in society I see people just succumbing to this kind of shit, those people make me sick. I likr to think that Dugcarr1 was thinking outside the box in his scheme....now to tell the truth it wasnt one of his brightest ideas but at least he had his own thoughts. I have nothing against blitz whatsoever and I have talked with him very briefly and can say that he seems to be a very nice individual with obvious skills and intelligence. However this is not about blitz and dugcarr1 anymore this is about our freedoms and the things which mods feel they can do.

[Beastly]

You should go post this in Hendys clan thread where it belongs.

oh and cheating is not a freedom.

[what,me worry?]

You should go post this in Hendys clan thread where it belongs.

oh and cheating is not a freedom.

But having a premie account (involving money, no matter where it comes from) is a big deal. I have 1.2 years left and I dont want to lose because I did something that the rules didnt cover. There should be checks and balances in matters such as this.

[mandalorian2298]

You should go post this in Hendys clan thread where it belongs.

oh and cheating is not a freedom.

But having a premie account (involving money, no matter where it comes from) is a big deal. I have 1.2 years left and I dont want to lose because I did something that the rules didnt cover. There should be checks and balances in matters such as this.

Ok, let me ask you this: Let us suppose that you find out the adress of Lack or some other Mod. Let us suppose that you start threatning him/her over the phone, sending him disturbing packages and stalking his family.
1. Would he be wrong to ban you from the site, even though you are paying member?
2. If your answer to 1. is yes, show me the CC rule that allowes him to do so.

Let me now introduce a new concept: common sense.
Common sense allowes you to know what is right and what is wrong in situations that aren't covered by specific rules. It is a product of thinking. In the society in wich I live, a person who would ask if bribing someone is wrong because rules say nothing about it would be considered retarded for asking such a thing. Also, one would be expected to know that joining many matches and losing them on purpose is not an acceptable way of behaving.

[Captain Crash]

Rules are for the blind obedience of fools and the guidance of wise men

Lack's site, we pay to play by his standards, if he decides then he decides.
We are not part of a some fantastical Utopian society here. (As loose as it may seem)

Get over it.

This is Dugs problem, he needs to take it up with Lack. If he does not like the decision he is free to set up his own site and play by whatever moral code he feels like and he better watch out, because someone will come up with a situation he hasn't thought of!

Move on people!



ps Mods: Could all these Dug threads be moved to the cheating and abuse forum, as this is what is being discussed, please.

[tahitiwahini]

Let me now introduce a new concept: common sense.
Common sense allowes you to know what is right and what is wrong in situations that aren't covered by specific rules. It is a product of thinking. In the society in wich I live, a person who would ask if bribing someone is wrong because rules say nothing about it would be considered retarded for asking such a thing. Also, one would be expected to know that joining many matches and losing them on purpose is not an acceptable way of behaving.

It's become painfully obvious that "common sense," while hopefully at least in some sense still a frequent or usual occurrence, is far from universal. It's been a very Alice in Wonderland experience talking with some of these people the last few days. It's like falling down the rabbit-hole and emerging into some kind of bizarro world, in which Dug is being persecuted and hounded like some sort of latter day Jean Valjean for stealing a loaf of bread to feed his starving family.

The victims of Dug's behavior which at this point include to some degree everyone on the site are conveniently forgotten, while every action taken to curb his abuses is magnified into some sort of Orwellian torture. Real people would have been harmed by his aborted bribery conspiracy, and real people were harmed by his game throwing point-losing scheme. But I guess because Dug wasn't the victim in those cases it just doesn't matter. Apparently it's all about Dug and the other little people aren't worth a second thought.

Welcome to bizarro world...

they admit what Dug did was wrong, that it wasn't merely a mistake, that it was by his own admission intentional and carefully planned, but somehow they want to bring him back to do it some more. The logical fallacy is almost breath-taking enough to render me speechless... temporarily at any rate. They prattle on about the "injustices" done to Dug, while nary a peep is uttered about his victims. It's like he did wrong, but didn't actually hurt anyone. It's like talking to the mother of a serial killer. "I know Dug did wrong, but he's still a good boy at heart...." It's like in their minds Dug is a large 10-year old boy, who does wrong, but golly, his heart is in the right place, and deep down (very deep apparently) is a sweet guy who does all these bad things because, gosh darn it, he just loves this game so much. I guess with these people it's more important who someone is than what he does. If you're the rascally ne'er do well, you can get away with bloody murder.

[podge]

Don't get me wrong Tahitiwahini you come across as a nice enough guy but tell me, are you masturbating while typing these posts ?

[DavSav]

Let me now introduce a new concept: common sense.
Common sense allowes you to know what is right and what is wrong in situations that aren't covered by specific rules. It is a product of thinking. In the society in wich I live, a person who would ask if bribing someone is wrong because rules say nothing about it would be considered retarded for asking such a thing. Also, one would be expected to know that joining many matches and losing them on purpose is not an acceptable way of behaving.

It's become painfully obvious that "common sense," while hopefully at least in some sense still a frequent or usual occurrence, is far from universal. It's been a very Alice in Wonderland experience talking with some of these people the last few days. It's like falling down the rabbit-hole and emerging into some kind of bizarro world, in which Dug is being persecuted and hounded like some sort of latter day Jean Valjean for stealing a loaf of bread to feed his starving family.

The victims of Dug's behavior which at this point include to some degree everyone on the site are conveniently forgotten, while every action taken to curb his abuses is magnified into some sort of Orwellian torture. Real people would have been harmed by his aborted bribery conspiracy, and real people were harmed by his game throwing point-losing scheme. But I guess because Dug wasn't the victim in those cases it just doesn't matter. Apparently it's all about Dug and the other little people aren't worth a second thought.

Welcome to bizarro world...

they admit what Dug did was wrong, that it wasn't merely a mistake, that it was by his own admission intentional and carefully planned, but somehow they want to bring him back to do it some more. The logical fallacy is almost breath-taking enough to render me speechless... temporarily at any rate. They prattle on about the "injustices" done to Dug, while nary a peep is uttered about his victims. It's like he did wrong, but didn't actually hurt anyone. It's like talking to the mother of a serial killer. "I know Dug did wrong, but he's still a good boy at heart...." It's like in their minds Dug is a large 10-year old boy, who does wrong, but golly, his heart is in the right place, and deep down (very deep apparently) is a sweet guy who does all these bad things because, gosh darn it, he just loves this game so much. I guess with these people it's more important who someone is than what he does. If you're the rascally ne'er do well, you can get away with bloody murder.

Well said. I can't believe how they can say Doug is a victim either. He brought it upon himself. He jsut did not know when to quit. Ban from PM and forum was not enough, nooooo, he had to do one better

[Thaddeus Roth]

I think the main misconception that's preventing 'What, me worry?' from understanding just how stupid he sounds, is the idea that Dugcarr - by contributing money to the upkeep of this site - is somehow entilted to a 'refund'.

I think I'll start out by saying how much of an utterly foolish idea that is - the money that was contributed to this site - owned and *paid for* by Lack - should, for no reason be refunded.

What Dugcarr has done - as far as 'paying for its existance of this site' goes - is the equivalent of going into a shop and buying a stick, harrasing people with it, then complaining when it's taken away and demanding a refund.

Yes, Dugcarr did 'pay' for a predetermined amount of 'premium time', but he forfeit all rights to both it and the site when he greifed and attempted to bribe other members of this site - some of which, I'm sure, were also 'premium members' - members having an equal or greater 'share' in this site than Dugcarr himself.

Why give someone back money for an item they've already shown themselves incapable of using in a mature and friendly way?

[Master Bush]

So whom has given him absolute authority over us?

Are you joking with this crap? Piss off bra, if you dont like it here. This is Lack's site, and that gives him absolute authority over everyone. Dugcarr's a scum, and should have been banned. CC doesn't need cowards like him around....good riddance.

[alex_white101]

IWhat Dugcarr has done - as far as 'paying for its existance of this site' goes - is the equivalent of going into a shop and buying a stick, harrasing people with it, then complaining when it's taken away and demanding a refund.

[Sammy gags]

It is a product of thinking. In the society in wich I live, a person who would ask if bribing someone is wrong because rules say nothing about it would be considered retarded for asking such a thing. Also, one would be expected to know that joining many matches and losing them on purpose is not an acceptable way of behaving.

It is not about society, it is about a game which can be taught as any means necessary & it is not fair that someone can lose money over a misunderstanding that a warning would have cleared up. Dug joined those games to talk & to give his points away, but he has changed his mind & started playing. He has shown repentance for what he has done

[what,me worry?]

I think the main misconception that's preventing 'What, me worry?' from understanding just how stupid he sounds, is the idea that Dugcarr - by contributing money to the upkeep of this site - is somehow entilted to a 'refund'.

I think I'll start out by saying how much of an utterly foolish idea that is - the money that was contributed to this site - owned and *paid for* by Lack - should, for no reason be refunded.

What Dugcarr has done - as far as 'paying for its existance of this site' goes - is the equivalent of going into a shop and buying a stick, harrasing people with it, then complaining when it's taken away and demanding a refund.

Yes, Dugcarr did 'pay' for a predetermined amount of 'premium time', but he forfeit all rights to both it and the site when he greifed and attempted to bribe other members of this site - some of which, I'm sure, were also 'premium members' - members having an equal or greater 'share' in this site than Dugcarr himself.

Why give someone back money for an item they've already shown themselves incapable of using in a mature and friendly way?

I think where your going wrong is the fact that there is no legal print when it comes to paying for ones account. Unless there is a disclaimer, which there isnt, Dugg deserves his money. And Everyone keeps comparing Dugg to a "burglar" or a criminal who has committed a great crime. He violated no rules that are posted. period.

[dividedbyzero]

I think where your going wrong is the fact that there is no legal print when it comes to paying for ones account. Unless there is a disclaimer, which there isnt, Dugg deserves his money. And Everyone keeps comparing Dugg to a "burglar" or a criminal who has committed a great crime. He violated no rules that are posted. period.

The reality here is that there is legal precedent for not returning money for access if behaviour warrants it, virtual or not. However, since Lack is Canadian and presumably CC resides in Canada (?), that adds a whole different kettle of fish to the equation.

It doesn't matter who is right and who is wrong in this. If Lack doesn't want to refund the money, he doesn't have to, whether it's right or wrong. Dug, also a Canadian presumably, can sue him presuming the Canadian laws are similar in order to get justice. The reality, though, is that since $20 of it came as a gift from RD, that would probably get thrown out of court. The other $10 in unused time fee would be in question. Court costs and filing fees would easily be $200-300 US, not to mention that Dug would either have to fly to city where the server resides or hire a lawyer to go in his stead. It's a lot of work for $10. Were it me, I'd cut my losses and move on. Do you really want to be part of a community where the sole authority has decided that you are out to cause him harm? I get the principles involved, but is it really worth the trouble ?

The reality here is that there is no real US law to cover this. The other reality is that were you to try to establish the precedent, you'd spend far more than it's really worth. It also sets a bad precedent for Lack to refund for bad behavior. I'm not a lawyer, but I'm sure there's one around here that could pipe up about US law (not sure about Canadian law in the least). When I worked IT Security, the legal system was incredibly particular about how to handle computer crime and fraud cases. I'm not certain how it has changed in 5 years. This would still be small claims court, though.

Frankly, I don't care that Dug is gone. It doesn't impact me either way. There are lots of great players that aren't here any more for one reason or another. Some I miss, some I don't. Either way, I come here as a distraction from the more stressful things in my life, not to create more. Others have different motives, apparently. After the last X months of watching the constant bitching about the scoring system, my take on it is either leave or do the same if score means that much to you. If it's just about who is *really* the best player, perhaps being quiet about it and approaching it respectfully to the other player(s) and Lack would get you farther in the long run. Several players have made really good suggestions about how to fix the scoring system. That to me seems far more constructive than threads about how one player or the other is not the best, etc.

As owner of the site, the code, and ultimately all of the accounts (we just rent them, basically), Lack is the final word. You can protest, appeal, and argue, but it's really up to him. I'd say that taking the time to work on a very rational argument would probably go a lot farther than kneejerk reactions, cursing, and insults. I've found the moderators and Lack all to be reasonable people, but they don't want to be yelled at or insulted anymore than the next person does. We're all human...except maybe Lack. I'm starting to think he's a C program that generates PHP code.

If you've made it this far, sorry for boring you. There are lots of great players that don't participate in the forums because they don't want the drama. I completely understand that. They're here for fun. Perhaps we need to keep the fact that a *game* should indeed be about fun in perspective.

dbz

[Robinette]

......... It's been a very Alice in Wonderland experience talking with some of these people the last few days. It's like falling down the rabbit-hole and emerging into some kind of bizarro world, in which Dug is being persecuted and hounded like some sort of latter day Jean Valjean for stealing a loaf of bread to feed his starving family...........

With posts like this, your literary reputation for poetic and dramatic output continues to expand...

Victor Hugo would be proud of you.

[JimRocky]

Not entirely worthless...

I found this nugget within:

I'll sign the petition. For your information I think Dug is an asshole. But then again I think Wicked in an asshole too. I cannot call Lack an asshole because he is far to clever to post very much to allow anyone to make an accurate opinion.

Also, I am an asshole. If anyone thinks they are not an asshole then they automatically are one.

MG.

I realize I'm an asshole for posting this but there's no way not to be.
If I think I'm not, I am, if I think I am, I am.

[everywhere116]

This entire thing reminds me of the Saddam trial.

Oh, Saddam is being is inhumanely treated! Why is he being hanged? What crime hass he done? I mean, he only killed millions of his own people! Why does he deserve to die?

[hendy]

come on every1 start signing