Blatant farming continues unabated

[King_Herpes]

This is the only persons definition of newbie farming that matters.

Who said anything about newbie farming?

Read my post. The purpose is to try to convince people that we should change the scoring system so nobody can inflate their score by farming unskilled players. Every poll on every suggestion I've seen in Sugs and Bugs comes up ANTI farming by at least 75% to 25%. This should translate into administrative action but it hasn't. Maybe this thread can spur it on.

It is clear from your personal emotional reaction that you are scared of this happening and will go to any length to divert the discussion away from its intended goal into another flame session. I'm surprised you haven't received a forum ban for such typical, obvious behavior.

I walk on thin ice, and that has always been my style. I respect the mods/admins and their rules. If they change them, then I'll follow them. Wouldn't bother me either way. I'm just telling you that you are wasting your arthritis...

[owenshooter]

hmmm, let's look at the team being allegedly farmed:

Skopos - 1595 completed, 860 (54%) won
powest - 331 completed, 79 (24%) won
timo1 - 312 completed, 116 (37%) won
Genaraln7 - 39 completed, 12 (31%) won

three of them are far from newbs, and three of them
should have enough experience/know how, to handle
themselves in a team game. this is far from farming.
the black jesus has spoken...-0

[King_Herpes]

the black jesus has spoken...-0

Yay! BJ is here, I knew you'd come back. Did you miss us?

[n00blet]

the black jesus has spoken...-0

Out of curiosity, does the added adjective "black" imply that this is a different Jesus than the whitewashed popular image?

[porkenbeans]

The purpose is to try to convince people that we should change the scoring system so nobody can inflate their score by farming unskilled players.

How will they get better if these "unskilled players" you speak of never play anyone better than them?

I mean, I could win any chess tournament I want if I just played in the kindergarten league, but if I went and played with the grandmasters for a year I would definitely be one of the "unskilled" players, but I would eventually get far better than if I was forced to play people of equal or lesser ability.

Besides, it would be near impossible to regulate who is playing lower ranked players for fun, who's doing it maliciously, who occasionally does it, who's teaching, and who's just trying to play the game but then that damn n00b joined again.

Lack clearly said that it was not cool to exclusively target just newbies. He said that it is fine for all the ranks to play each other. As for it being impossible to regulate. You are incorrect my friend. Chips Map Rank shows this kind of activity very clearly.

[owenshooter]

Lack clearly said that it was not cool to exclusively target just newbies. He said that it is fine for all the ranks to play each other. As for it being impossible to regulate. You are incorrect my friend. Chips Map Rank shows this kind of activity very clearly.

they are not noobs:

Skopos - 1595 completed, 860 (54%) won
powest - 331 completed, 79 (24%) won
timo1 - 312 completed, 116 (37%) won
Genaraln7 - 39 completed, 12 (31%) won

you are wasting your breath. when i was a sgt. i would set up games
and pray for a team like the one they are facing, to show up. i felt
my game was good enough to tangle with the best of them. and they
clearly feel the same or they would not set up an open team game for
anyone to join. they have enough games/experience under their belts
to be competitive. and they can surely guide the member of their team
that is lacking in games. this is not a clear cut case of farming, and it
is tragic that this type of scrutiny is going to continue. a player with
over 1500 games is far from a newb, as are players with games in excess
of 300. i see smoke, but it isn't a fire... it is probably King Herpes smoking
a fat one after infecting this side with his brand of CC Love... The black
jesus has spoken...-0

[FarangDemon]

Lack clearly said that it was not cool to exclusively target just newbies. He said that it is fine for all the ranks to play each other. As for it being impossible to regulate. You are incorrect my friend. Chips Map Rank shows this kind of activity very clearly.

they are not noobs:

Skopos - 1595 completed, 860 (54%) won
powest - 331 completed, 79 (24%) won
timo1 - 312 completed, 116 (37%) won
Genaraln7 - 39 completed, 12 (31%) won

you are wasting your breath. when i was a sgt. i would set up games
and pray for a team like the one they are facing, to show up. i felt
my game was good enough to tangle with the best of them. and they
clearly feel the same or they would not set up an open team game for
anyone to join. they have enough games/experience under their belts
to be competitive. and they can surely guide the member of their team
that is lacking in games. this is not a clear cut case of farming, and it
is tragic that this type of scrutiny is going to continue. a player with
over 1500 games is far from a newb, as are players with games in excess
of 300. i see smoke, but it isn't a fire... it is probably King Herpes smoking
a fat one after infecting this side with his brand of CC Love... The black
jesus has spoken...-0

What is really tragic is that players inflate their score up to the top rank by playing teams like this.

[King_Herpes]

What is really tragic is that players inflate their score up to the top rank by playing teams like this.

Come to think of it, it is rather sad. I think I might have a problem. Where's Mr. C's farming rehab when you need it?...

[FarangDemon]

What is really tragic is that players inflate their score up to the top rank by playing teams like this.

Come to think of it, it is rather sad. I think I might have a problem. Where's Mr. C's farming rehab when you need it?...

The cure is a proper scoring system. This site can't even calculate win % in a meaningful way.

All hail the conqueror of Mickey Mouse Club!

[owenshooter]

What is really tragic is that players inflate their score up to the top rank by playing teams like this.

*praying to my father for the strength to remain calm*... FarangDemon, what is really tragic is that you consider these guys newbs!! 3 of them have more experience than you and your fancy hat... so, according to this thread and to yourself, you yourself are a newb, and if you were in this game, you would be being farmed... please explain to me how three players with more games and experience than you have, are newbs. please, i am listening. one of them has 1300 more games than you, but is somehow a newb!!

FarangDemon - 228 completed, 97 (43%) won

Skopos - 1595 completed, 860 (54%) won
powest - 331 completed, 79 (24%) won
timo1 - 312 completed, 116 (37%) won
Genaraln7 - 39 completed, 12 (31%) won

yes, it is truly tragic that three competent players with more experience that the above quoted players, are
being beaten in a game that they have an equal chance of winning... i for one am not too keen on witch hunts, burning people at the stake, stonings, people being crucified, etc... this is an obvious witch hunt, and nothing wrong is being done in this specific game, which is being discussed... the black jesus has spoken...-0

[FarangDemon]

What is really tragic is that players inflate their score up to the top rank by playing teams like this.

*praying to my father for the strength to remain calm*... FarangDemon, what is really tragic is that you consider these guys newbs!! 3 of them have more experience than you and your fancy hat... so, according to this thread and to yourself, you yourself are a newb, and if you were in this game, you would be being farmed... please explain to me how three players with more games and experience than you have, are newbs. please, i am listening. one of them has 1300 more games than you, but is somehow a newb!!

the black jesus has spoken...-0

Dear Black Jesus, thanks for the fancy hat comment, but I never said they were newbs. I said unskilled. Check my posts. And thank you for remaining calm.

Please read carefully before derailing threads.

PS According to myself, I myself am a newb? LOL
PPS Thanks again for complimenting my hat, now please return to the nearest bridge from under whence you came.

[King_Herpes]

What is really tragic is that players inflate their score up to the top rank by playing teams like this.

*praying to my father for the strength to remain calm*... FarangDemon, what is really tragic is that you consider these guys newbs!! 3 of them have more experience than you and your fancy hat... so, according to this thread and to yourself, you yourself are a newb, and if you were in this game, you would be being farmed... please explain to me how three players with more games and experience than you have, are newbs. please, i am listening. one of them has 1300 more games than you, but is somehow a newb!!

FarangDemon - 228 completed, 97 (43%) won

Skopos - 1595 completed, 860 (54%) won
powest - 331 completed, 79 (24%) won
timo1 - 312 completed, 116 (37%) won
Genaraln7 - 39 completed, 12 (31%) won

yes, it is truly tragic that three competent players with more experience that the above quoted players, are
being beaten in a game that they have an equal chance of winning... i for one am not too keen on witch hunts, burning people at the stake, stonings, people being crucified, etc... this is an obvious witch hunt, and nothing wrong is being done in this specific game, which is being discussed... the black jesus has spoken...-0

A very eloquent post from the big pimp in the sky as should be expected. You never fail to amaze me. So is it true? Is there a thug mansion in heaven?

[porkenbeans]

Lack clearly said that it was not cool to exclusively target just newbies. He said that it is fine for all the ranks to play each other. As for it being impossible to regulate. You are incorrect my friend. Chips Map Rank shows this kind of activity very clearly.

they are not noobs:

Skopos - 1595 completed, 860 (54%) won
powest - 331 completed, 79 (24%) won
timo1 - 312 completed, 116 (37%) won
Genaraln7 - 39 completed, 12 (31%) won

you are wasting your breath. when i was a sgt. i would set up games
and pray for a team like the one they are facing, to show up. i felt
my game was good enough to tangle with the best of them. and they
clearly feel the same or they would not set up an open team game for
anyone to join. they have enough games/experience under their belts
to be competitive. and they can surely guide the member of their team
that is lacking in games. this is not a clear cut case of farming, and it
is tragic that this type of scrutiny is going to continue. a player with
over 1500 games is far from a newb, as are players with games in excess
of 300. i see smoke, but it isn't a fire... it is probably King Herpes smoking
a fat one after infecting this side with his brand of CC Love... The black
jesus has spoken...-0

Yes, I have felt the same way when it comes to wanting and looking to play the higher ranks, sense I was new recruit. The game that was cited does not seem to be a good example of Newbie Farming, and seems perfectly fine with me. That is not what we are talking about. If you want to see a prime example of what it is that is being discussed, take a good look at rabbitons' game history. He played something like 250 or so straight games against strictly newbies. He put together the longest winning streak in the history of CC. It was over 200 straight wins. This is the kind of thing that I believe Lack is talking about. He has come out and said that it is NOT cool. Most everyone applauds his position. I would predict that the next words from him if this activity is not discontinued, will be a bit more harsh. But I will wait along with all the rest of us, to see if and when the other shoe drops.

[n00blet]

The purpose is to try to convince people that we should change the scoring system so nobody can inflate their score by farming unskilled players.

How will they get better if these "unskilled players" you speak of never play anyone better than them?

I mean, I could win any chess tournament I want if I just played in the kindergarten league, but if I went and played with the grandmasters for a year I would definitely be one of the "unskilled" players, but I would eventually get far better than if I was forced to play people of equal or lesser ability.

Besides, it would be near impossible to regulate who is playing lower ranked players for fun, who's doing it maliciously, who occasionally does it, who's teaching, and who's just trying to play the game but then that damn n00b joined again.

Lack clearly said that it was not cool to exclusively target just newbies. He said that it is fine for all the ranks to play each other. As for it being impossible to regulate. You are incorrect my friend. Chips Map Rank shows this kind of activity very clearly.

Problem: The high risers who have gotten to Brigadier or above within 100 or so games through lots of (lucky) 8 player games would probably then realize that rank is of little to no importance in the grand scheme of things. If they start to play lower ranks just to play new settings and try out new stuff, Map Rank does not take that into account at all. I've seen your arguments about the merits of Map Rank, and I agree it's a useful tool, but the way you use it as the be-all-and-end-all of determining "farmer" from "real player" (is the what you would call it?) is entirely out of context.

Don't get me wrong; real n00b farming is a very bad thing, for the site and for the new player involved. But justifying a witch hunt for those who play lower ranks (is it really plausible for the Brigadiers to only play Brigadiers and above? There's only 70 of those kind of people.

Or perhaps you were thinking that there is a cutoff for the "lower ranks." What would it be? Captain? Major? Colonel? Whatever you decide as the cutoff point would invariably be unable to distinguish those who have either gotten there by luck and those who are the skilled. If the cutoff point is major, what's to stop me from dropping to 1999, making 200 games against cadets and winning all of them to jump me up to brigadier? There is no way to guarantee that everyone is playing as you want them to.

Lack has said that n00b farming is not OK. That is limited to the actual n00bs, not the "low ranks." If someone has 1500+ games under their belt, it can hardly be said that they are new to the game. Therefore, beating up on them because they don't bother to improve their game or successfully choose partners they can direct is something entirely within the bounds of CC acceptance.

My suggestion: stop worrying about how everyone else can beat the "low ranks" and just get to conqueror yourself, by your own rules. That'd show 'em!

[Artimis]

That game is a pointed reminder that hosting Freestyle Quads with Unlimited Forts(especially on a large map) is a very, very, very bad idea.

[FarangDemon]

nooblet, you are right, it is not an end all be all.

i can tell you are an intelligent poster and have actually thought about the scoring system problem, instead of writing it off as unsolvable a priorio as so many have done.

I believe if you took the time to read some of the suggestions, especially Gimil's and Ramned's, you would see that it can be quite easily done.

Ramned's

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=73494

Gimil's

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=73618

[porkenbeans]

The purpose is to try to convince people that we should change the scoring system so nobody can inflate their score by farming unskilled players.

How will they get better if these "unskilled players" you speak of never play anyone better than them?

I mean, I could win any chess tournament I want if I just played in the kindergarten league, but if I went and played with the grandmasters for a year I would definitely be one of the "unskilled" players, but I would eventually get far better than if I was forced to play people of equal or lesser ability.

Besides, it would be near impossible to regulate who is playing lower ranked players for fun, who's doing it maliciously, who occasionally does it, who's teaching, and who's just trying to play the game but then that damn n00b joined again.

Lack clearly said that it was not cool to exclusively target just newbies. He said that it is fine for all the ranks to play each other. As for it being impossible to regulate. You are incorrect my friend. Chips Map Rank shows this kind of activity very clearly.

Problem: The high risers who have gotten to Brigadier or above within 100 or so games through lots of (lucky) 8 player games would probably then realize that rank is of little to no importance in the grand scheme of things. If they start to play lower ranks just to play new settings and try out new stuff, Map Rank does not take that into account at all. I've seen your arguments about the merits of Map Rank, and I agree it's a useful tool, but the way you use it as the be-all-and-end-all of determining "farmer" from "real player" (is the what you would call it?) is entirely out of context.

Don't get me wrong; real n00b farming is a very bad thing, for the site and for the new player involved. But justifying a witch hunt for those who play lower ranks (is it really plausible for the Brigadiers to only play Brigadiers and above? There's only 70 of those kind of people.

Or perhaps you were thinking that there is a cutoff for the "lower ranks." What would it be? Captain? Major? Colonel? Whatever you decide as the cutoff point would invariably be unable to distinguish those who have either gotten there by luck and those who are the skilled. If the cutoff point is major, what's to stop me from dropping to 1999, making 200 games against cadets and winning all of them to jump me up to brigadier? There is no way to guarantee that everyone is playing as you want them to.

Lack has said that n00b farming is not OK. That is limited to the actual n00bs, not the "low ranks." If someone has 1500+ games under their belt, it can hardly be said that they are new to the game. Therefore, beating up on them because they don't bother to improve their game or successfully choose partners they can direct is something entirely within the bounds of CC acceptance.

My suggestion: stop worrying about how everyone else can beat the "low ranks" and just get to conqueror yourself, by your own rules. That'd show 'em!

You are just plain incorrect. How many times must I state my position before it is made clear. There is nothing wrong with playing any rank that you wish.
IT IS THE SYSTEMATIC PURSUIT OF JUST NEWBIES, that I am opposed to.
If a high rank wants to try out a new board against a newbie, Well that may just be a good strategy. Nothing wrong here. But when he sends out 200 pms to newbies to play on the same board, well that is another story. Do you understand what I am trying to say ?
And Oh, by the way, Map Rank does indeed show this kind of abuse very, very, clearly. Tell me it doesn't, and I will tell you that you are full of shit.

[Kotaro]

Oh boo hoo. Someone beat someone else. Maybe, if they didn't want to be farmed, they shouldn't have made the game.

Get over it.

[MrBenn]

You are just plain incorrect. How many times must I state my position before it is made clear. There is nothing wrong with playing any rank that you wish.
IT IS THE SYSTEMATIC PURSUIT OF JUST NEWBIES, that I am opposed to.
If a high rank wants to try out a new board against a newbie, Well that may just be a good strategy. Nothing wrong here. But when he sends out 200 pms to newbies to play on the same board, well that is another story. Do you understand what I am trying to say ?

Players who have practiced farming in the past have been warned for their (mis)conduct, and the 'newbie farming' rule came into effect at the beginning of this year... a mere 5 or 6 days (depending on your time zone). This means that looking at historical activity is not overly helpful (at this moment in time) in determining whether or not a player is continuing to farm new recruits and thereby committing new-recruit-farming-abuse.

[Fruitcake]

Oh dear.

This is pretty simple. A groundswell of opinion occured recently. This groundswell brought a lot of pressure to bear on pushing changes to the system through. Those of us who pushed for these changes felt vindicated when they were put through.

You cannot, in all honesty, now look to change the goal posts. There was a specific and focussed objective previously. If this kind of play was missed and you feel it is incorrect, you must realise that support will drift away.

For the record, I agree with Owen. When I was rising through the scores I would hope for such a high ranking team. In fact, if you look through my earlier team records, you will find I deliberately targeted high ranking teams and ambushed them with my own team such was my confidence, a kind of reverse farming I suppose. I cannot support your stand on this FD. I am a supporter of changing the way the scoreboard operates as I have said elsewhere in the forum, but this is free play and devil take the hindmost.

[Mr Changsha]

Oh dear.

This is pretty simple. A groundswell of opinion occured recently. This groundswell brought a lot of pressure to bear on pushing changes to the system through. Those of us who pushed for these changes felt vindicated when they were put through.

You cannot, in all honesty, now look to change the goal posts. There was a specific and focussed objective previously. If this kind of play was missed and you feel it is incorrect, you must realise that support will drift away.

For the record, I agree with Owen. When I was rising through the scores I would hope for such a high ranking team. In fact, if you look through my earlier team records, you will find I deliberately targeted high ranking teams and ambushed them with my own team such was my confidence, a kind of reverse farming I suppose. I cannot support your stand on this FD. I am a supporter of changing the way the scoreboard operates as I have said elsewhere in the forum, but this is free play and devil take the hindmost.

But is an early example of the drip, drip effect I stated would happen if this change was implemented. We are already witnessing it. You, owen and I think the example highlighted is absurd, but he doesn't. The forums will be littered with accusations from now on, all because people are trying to interpret a scoreboard that, by its very concept, is flawed.

So what to do?

In the long-term, but best thing to do would be to split up the scoreboard into different disciplines. Until that is done, I am beginning to believe CC needs to backpeddle quickly on this. Very quickly. I've already seen two examples today of players highlighting another players record and screaming "Farming!" Both cases didn't look like much to me.

The forum atmosphere has been and continues to be poisoned by this issue and that will filter down and into the games. While you were right to criticise farming, I don't think you realised how your quite narrow (and honourable) aims would be perverted by the narrow-mindedness of other people on this site.

[owenshooter]

That game is a pointed reminder that hosting Freestyle Quads with Unlimited Forts(especially on a large map) is a very, very, very bad idea.

how? the guy has close to 1,600 games and knew what he was doing... again, this is not farming...
now, let's move on to a more rational voice in this thread:

I am a supporter of changing the way the scoreboard operates as I have said elsewhere in the forum, but this is free play and devil take the hindmost.

fruitcake has lit a candle at the black jesus altar of truth... the black jesus has spoken...-0

[prismsaber]

In cases like this team 1 is just stupid. I don't support this game style but it's hard to consider it farming. The only away around it is to ban casual freestyle team games (you can keep speed) which I fully support because it's a completely retarded option, similar to 1v1 freestyle except even more cheap.

[Qwert]

These discusion about farming,becomae quite pointles. I think that if someon brake rules,then these is job for MOd squad to deal with that. If people playing with ?, and if these ok, so why you constantly discuss abouth farming. If these not OK,then again its job for MOD not to constantly opening new and new topic abouth Farming.

[AAFitz]

better players will always join games of lower ranked players

i myself join the experts on maps when i know i will lose, simply to learn from them.. its a world domination game

and while in a game like that, the other team wont learn much, except that they never really had a chance...they should at least learn that

if the four of them got together, they could beat the other team for a boatload of points too

even i have joined a few new guys in freestyle games in the last few days, but i make sure to warn everysingle one of them, to stick to sequential little maps at first

quite frankly, they have to learn somehow

i think that team is infinitely better off having been joined by a super-team, so they can see how those games are won