How much of this game is influenced by chance?

[KLOBBER]

60% luck? Then how does that explain people who consistently maintain a higher rank than other people playing the exact same type of games? There's definitely some luck involved, but that is essentially negated over a long period of many games.

That's not true. Some players like KLOBBER and King Herpes stick to one or two maps and farm for points from inexperience players in those games. Then we have over-ranked players who team up with each other to take advantage of the same inexperience players.

I'm playing Prison Riot right now, and I have 3 more of this game waiting, and I've only completed one game of this type. I'm playing much more experienced (correct spelling) players than myself.

You are wrong.

[Hoots]

60% luck? Then how does that explain people who consistently maintain a higher rank than other people playing the exact same type of games? There's definitely some luck involved, but that is essentially negated over a long period of many games.

look, im not trying to insult highly ranked or highly skilled players by suggesting that this game is more luck than skill...

I agree that stratagy puts you in a position to win (aka skill) but being in position to win doesnt = win... Its the dice that equals win.

For example i just took a turn on a vary tightly played, small map, doubles game. My partner and I have been in the driver seat for most of the game, We Were in a position to eliminate a 5 card player before he took his next turn. (His partner had only 2 cards with a 3 troop bonus so he couldnt eliminate his own partner on his turn)

My partner carded and left 4 troops isolated for me to kill on my turn. I also card and roll 16 vs his 4 and lose. ( i actually only killed 2 of his troops)

Yes this is one example and is very "short term" thinking, but in my opinion (and im not saying thats worth anything...) a turn like this happens to one team or the other in most games and is completly game changing.

All the skill in the world is helpless against that.

And No, this isnt sour grapes... We have had our share of 3 vs 15 Defensive stands as well in the other games we have played.

So lets say that long term all the luck balances out... then yes, skill would lead to the highest ranked memebers... but if any 2 of these members played in a match i would suggest it is more luck than skill determining the match...

[GENERAL STONEHAM]

KLOBBER » Wed May 13, 2009 5:23 pm

I'm playing Prison Riot right now, and I have 3 more of this game waiting, and I've only completed one game of this type. I'm playing much more experienced (correct spelling) players than myself.





I'm so proud of you KLOBBER, you're taking a bold move! Is someone holding your hand in this game? Are you wearing your depends? Don't be scared, I'm sure your rank is not in jeapordy.

[Timminz]

This game involves just enough luck, that a player can never have to admit to making a mistake, if they so choose.

[Fruitcake]

This game involves just enough luck, that a player can never have to admit to making a mistake, if they so choose.

As usual you are right on the button Timminz. Naturally there are exceptions to this rule, those exceptions do tend to include players who don't actually make errors ever. Obviously I include myself in that select few.

[niMic]

60% luck? Then how does that explain people who consistently maintain a higher rank than other people playing the exact same type of games? There's definitely some luck involved, but that is essentially negated over a long period of many games.

look, im not trying to insult highly ranked or highly skilled players by suggesting that this game is more luck than skill...

I agree that stratagy puts you in a position to win (aka skill) but being in position to win doesnt = win... Its the dice that equals win.

For example i just took a turn on a vary tightly played, small map, doubles game. My partner and I have been in the driver seat for most of the game, We Were in a position to eliminate a 5 card player before he took his next turn. (His partner had only 2 cards with a 3 troop bonus so he couldnt eliminate his own partner on his turn)

My partner carded and left 4 troops isolated for me to kill on my turn. I also card and roll 16 vs his 4 and lose. ( i actually only killed 2 of his troops)

Yes this is one example and is very "short term" thinking, but in my opinion (and im not saying thats worth anything...) a turn like this happens to one team or the other in most games and is completly game changing.

All the skill in the world is helpless against that.

And No, this isnt sour grapes... We have had our share of 3 vs 15 Defensive stands as well in the other games we have played.

So lets say that long term all the luck balances out... then yes, skill would lead to the highest ranked memebers... but if any 2 of these members played in a match i would suggest it is more luck than skill determining the match...

I know what you're saying, and in a way I agree with you. Any game can be heavily influenced by luck. But I won't accept the claim that any single game between any two members is more luck than skill. It's certainly the case if you take two people who aren't that far apart in rank, but a Cadet vs a Colonel in a 1v1 is almost always going to be a win for the Colonel (or he won't stay a Colonel for long ). The random element might be bigger than I make it, but then I play almost exclusively Quads, 4v4s. Such games can obviously be decided by the luck of the dice too, but I think it happens less than in standard games. It still happens though: I've had my share of losses to 3 cooks and a private with a team of random high-ranked people..

[Beko the Great]

In my opinion i would put it at around 60% luck and 40% skill.

I have been mostly playing doubles with the same partner. He is a coworker and we spend countless amounts of time in the office planning our attacks and defenses...

More often than not, in a game where every move is discussed before taken, the game comes down to either a horrible roll (10+ losing to a 2 or something) or a awesome roll where someone doesnt lose a troop. This happens both for us and against us.

After that one horrible or awesome roll it seems to tilt the scales in that direction and you spend the rest of the game either fighting against the results or taking advantage of them.

It is one of the things that has made me lose some interest in the game.... All the stratagy in the world wont do anything against one of the .99998% rolls that you lose.

In a doubs game me and my partner lost had made an excelent strategy so far and if I won a 10vs3 the game would be ours. I lost and we lost the game. But that was one game and the great strategist is not the one that complains about losing a 10vs2 is the one who's ready to lose a 10vs2 and proceed to victory. That's where skill is much more than luck! I think it was refered here before. If you're less experienced a couple of bad rolls will completely let you down (I've won a 1vs1 game in middle east map in 3 turns because of a few bad rolls from my adversary!) Yet, if you have more skill, you have the vision to see that there is a second, a third, a fourth chance... Of course you may have a terrible wave of dice, but I think the odds for that is just 5%... So maybe luck is just 5% and 95% skill... Or it might depend on rank... A conqueror is made of 5% luck and 95% skill. Maybe a cook, only win with 70% luck ...

[JoshyBoy]

That's a good question.

I'd say for 1v1 games its about 90% luck.

Most other games I'd say it's about 60% skill 40% luck.

And there are a very few games where it's about 70 to 80% skill and 20 to 30% luck.

Anyways... the true meaning of luck is "the Devil's blessing" so...

[KLOBBER]

Since the very concept of "luck" is an unscientific, mythological, caveman-type belief with absolutely no supporting evidence, it has no bearing on reality whatsoever.

Therefore this game is 0% "luck."

[john9blue]

Klob, you don't know what the hell you're talking about. And I've got plenty of evidence for that.

[xelabale]

Please everyone don't respond to Klobber in this thread. He is simply trolling, and this discussion is quite interesting. If you want to respond to him, click the link in the post above, but don't let this thread get derailed.

[GENERAL STONEHAM]

Please everyone don't respond to Klobber in this thread. He is simply trolling, and this discussion is quite interesting. If you want to respond to him, click the link in the post above, but don't let this thread get derailed.

Good luck with that suggestion. The moronic attitude of his, is the direct result of C.C. Moderators protecting this troll.

[KLOBBER]

Klob, you don't know what the hell you're talking about.

You may not know, but I certainly do.

"Luck" is a mythological concept, completely unbacked by any type of evidence, thoroughly unscientific, having no existence in reality, and tailor-made for the caveman, and for the unskilled and unintelligent to fall back on when they discover the fact that others are simply better than them.

[Hoots]

In a doubs game me and my partner lost had made an excelent strategy so far and if I won a 10vs3 the game would be ours. I lost and we lost the game. But that was one game and the great strategist is not the one that complains about losing a 10vs2 is the one who's ready to lose a 10vs2 and proceed to victory. That's where skill is much more than luck! I think it was refered here before. If you're less experienced a couple of bad rolls will completely let you down (I've won a 1vs1 game in middle east map in 3 turns because of a few bad rolls from my adversary!) Yet, if you have more skill, you have the vision to see that there is a second, a third, a fourth chance... Of course you may have a terrible wave of dice, but I think the odds for that is just 5%... So maybe luck is just 5% and 95% skill... Or it might depend on rank... A conqueror is made of 5% luck and 95% skill. Maybe a cook, only win with 70% luck ...

Are you confusing optimism and skill here?

I guess it comes down to what is defined as "luck". If luck is being on the beneficial side of extreme probabilities (which is how i would define luck) then, in my opinion, this is more of a luck that skill game.

I suppose there is skill in being able to plan on losing a 15 vs 3 roll but planning for that case would probably be too conservative to even allow have 15 troops to roll with.

[KLOBBER]

Please everyone don't respond to Klobber in this thread.

Your belief system must be pretty fragile for you to be so afraid of open discussion as to beg like that.

Where is your dignity?

I am not attempting to derail this thread or any other -- my posts were right on topic, which is the mythological concept of "luck." Your post was the one that's off-topic, and it has been reported.

[GENERAL STONEHAM]

Please everyone don't respond to Klobber in this thread.

Your belief system must be pretty fragile for you to be so afraid of open discussion as to beg like that.

Where is your dignity?

I am not attempting to derail this thread or any other -- my posts were right on topic, which is the mythological concept of "luck." Your post was the one that's off-topic, and it has been reported.

Look at the last wording, "and it has been reported."

KLOBBER is a "tool" of the Moderators. He's a cheer-leader for them and the Moderators protect him.

Good luck in continueing this thread, with-out the trolling of KLOBBER or having the Moderators stepping in and protecting their cyber-thug.

[gordon1975]

i play only 8 player games,luck plays a big part maybe at the start,but the rest is down to good and bad decisions by myself and the players close to me at the time,so suppose your lucky if you have half decent players on the board,so theres no suicide attacks ,dead beating etc,so i say you make your own luck

[KLOBBER]

This discussion is focused on the dichotomy between skill and "luck," and the fact is that the more skill a person has, the more his mind naturally gravitates to the mythological concept of "luck" in a vain attempt to fill in the gaps.

Those whose consciousness is permeated with a higher degree of skill have no such need.

[john9blue]

Klob, you don't know what the hell you're talking about.

You may not know, but I certainly do.

WHOAAA! Epic reversal!

I think I just got served.

[KLOBBER]

Yup.

[JoshyBoy]

Wow you guys really hate Klobber?!?

[Timminz]

Wow you guys really hate Klobber?!?

That's quite the assumption. I have not seen anyone say they hate KLOBBER. I see a handful of people becoming frustrated with him.

The way I see it, that means he's succeeding.

[KLOBBER]

They don't hate me, they hate the truth.

[jiminski]

They don't hate me, they hate the truth.

true

[Supermarioluigi]

This game is:

50% luck
50% strategy
50% perspiration