why do people think legal scripts are cheating?

[chipv]

I vote remove Freestyle. Cheating disappears overnight.

Cause of no end of problems on several fronts...

[nagerous]

I think thats a flawed argument to make Bruce that the script hasn't changed anything, it gives the top players a much bigger advantage and is clear. You'll notice that it isn't actually chefs who have complained about the script and the unfair advantage it gives but actually seasoned veterans.

[nagerous]

I vote remove Freestyle. Cheating disappears overnight.

Cause of no end of problems on several fronts...

I would like to see that along with a score reset for everyone. It would definitely liven things up and give the game a hell of a lot new sudden excitement.

[karelpietertje]

I don't like the fact that some people have Clickable Maps and some people don't.
when an opponent asks about my speed, I always give them the link to the Forum to the script.

That is also why I don't consider the script cheating: everybody can get the script.
There should be advertising for the Plugin & Addon Forum.
maybe include it to the first posts that new users get from admin?

Oh and to BaldAdonis and Blitzaholic, or anybody who thinks freestyle is about the unfair advantage of CM, you can get the script here. when you have it, accept the challenge here.

I already know youguys don't like freestyle and you'll probably not accept it (Blitz already declined), but I'm trying to make the point that freestyle skill is not based on Clickable Maps only... but the players that know how to move with Clickable Maps usually know how to play as well.
Because of that, people falsely think that it is CM that gives the advantage.

thanks for your attention.
kp

[obliterationX]

Haha, I hear you! One of my funniest was when somebody who has never played freestyle joins one of my games. He/she then proceeds accuses me of cheating because I was playing too quickly! Some people always need an excuse.

Just because somebody plays freestyle to their advantage does NOT mean they are cheating.

[demonfork]

I vote remove Freestyle. Cheating disappears overnight.

Cause of no end of problems on several fronts...

It sucks that I'm not allowed to foe mods. This is just the most retarded statement i've ever read in the cc forums!

Over one million freestyle games have been played! Freestyle is fun, people enjoy playing it, why would you want to eliminate it? You remove freestyle from the site and you remove $$$ from Lacks pocket it's that simple!

I enjoy playing both freestyle and sequential, I am happy that I have the choice.

I'm sorry that you people with "freestyle envy" suck at freestyle and therefore have the need to join the "freestyle is cheating" movement!

Go bang your drums somewhere else.

Stick to sequential.

Let the people that enjoy freestyle play in peace.

[AAFitz]

Well, are you talking about scripts, or are you talking about clickies in particular?

'Cause, while I know that clickies give people an unfair advantage in speed, clickies are amazing for sequential players, makes my life quite a bit easier (especially given the small screen of my laptop).

I've got no problem with anyone using scripts which don't help them win. BOB will count up your armies for you and colour code the map. It won't let you start your turn the second your opponent does. The Games Filter script lets you find games that you want to play. It won't let you conquer 3 territories in 2 seconds. Clickable maps is a great addition to sequential games, because just like in freestyle, it does exactly what you wanted to do, but faster. The difference, of course, is that playing faster helps you win freestyle games; other scripts don't give you an advantage over other players.

Summary for the people who can't read: Clickable maps + freestyle = cheating. Clickable maps - freestyle = no one cares.

Summary for reasonable people who can define cheating.

Wiki: Cheating is an act of lying, deception, fraud, trickery, imposture, or imposition. Cheating characteristically is employed to create an unfair advantage, usually in one's own interest, and often at the expense of others.[1] Cheating implies the breaking of rules.

using approved scripts= not cheating

calling something cheating that isnt breaking any rules= ridiculous, not to mention wrong

Using all legal tactics to compete= being competitve, ie making the game even more fun

freestyle+click maps = fun; pure and simple

people who call it cheating= everyone is entitled to an opinion, whether its ridiculous or not

Its just a different type of game. Some will define which types are acceptable and fun for all, while others will allow people to play what they want and not lose sight of the fact that this is a game. Some people will even complain about the fact that there are different ways to win on other maps like objective bonuses. Nothing you can do about it.

People who cant compete will always throw out the word cheating. Those who can, will step up and compete.

Play by the rules and have fun. Ignore the disgruntled rest. They simply wont be happy if they aren't complaining about something.

[Bruceswar]

I think thats a flawed argument to make Bruce that the script hasn't changed anything, it gives the top players a much bigger advantage and is clear. You'll notice that it isn't actually chefs who have complained about the script and the unfair advantage it gives but actually seasoned veterans.

Considering most all of the games you have played fs speed are doodle assassin, hmm really effecting you. The one time you did play an 8 man speed fs esc, was before CM and you got ran over by Prankcall.. but putting that aside I do not see how it has effected you. You have played since CM vs people who use it and won. I see nothing at all wrong with it. As timminz says.. Suck it up cupcake...

[oVo]

For the sole reason that CMs aren't actually "illegal" I don't consider them cheating...

I don't use any scripts to play because for me, figuring this stuff out myself is part of the game. Freestyle Speed games on a big map with lots of players is about as intense as this game can get, but I don't bother joining them any more, simply because clickable maps has altered gameplay. It is an unfair advantage and for anyone without CMs who is not prone to masochistic tendencies the only solution is to avoid freestyle speed games.

If mental energy saving auto pilot scripts are permanently integrated into this site
I'll probably be cured of this time killing addiction and quit playing.

[...] people falsely think that it is CM that gives the advantage.

There is no faulty logic involved in believing that clickable maps establishes an unfair advantage in freestyle speed games against players without it. Much like the use of steroids by atheletes, gaining an advantage is precisely the reason to use it. It isn't unbeatable, but it is an advantage.

There's nothing wrong with freestyle, it is what it is and nothing more.
Stick to sequencial games chipv.

[nagerous]

I think thats a flawed argument to make Bruce that the script hasn't changed anything, it gives the top players a much bigger advantage and is clear. You'll notice that it isn't actually chefs who have complained about the script and the unfair advantage it gives but actually seasoned veterans.

Considering most all of the games you have played fs speed are doodle assassin, hmm really effecting you. The one time you did play an 8 man speed fs esc, was before CM and you got ran over by Prankcall.. but putting that aside I do not see how it has effected you. You have played since CM vs people who use it and won. I see nothing at all wrong with it. As timminz says.. Suck it up cupcake...

Actually in that game there was a secret alliance and thats the reason Prank won but thats all buried under the bushes now.. I'm talking about 1vs1s as well mate when I find people like tsioumiou using legal speed cheats.

[Bruceswar]

I think thats a flawed argument to make Bruce that the script hasn't changed anything, it gives the top players a much bigger advantage and is clear. You'll notice that it isn't actually chefs who have complained about the script and the unfair advantage it gives but actually seasoned veterans.

Considering most all of the games you have played fs speed are doodle assassin, hmm really effecting you. The one time you did play an 8 man speed fs esc, was before CM and you got ran over by Prankcall.. but putting that aside I do not see how it has effected you. You have played since CM vs people who use it and won. I see nothing at all wrong with it. As timminz says.. Suck it up cupcake...

Actually in that game there was a secret alliance and thats the reason Prank won but thats all buried under the bushes now.. I'm talking about 1vs1s as well mate when I find people like tsioumiou using legal speed cheats.

You played KP... You beat him.. he uses them... BTW there was no secret alliance.. LOL Iooked at the log.. typically you just got ran over....

[chipv]

I was actually joking, believe it or not. Predictable responses, should have seen that coming.

Freestyle is one of the most popular settings on the site - removing it to eliminate cheating would be like
removing your arm when it has an itchy skin rash - that's the joke.

[AAFitz]

I vote remove Freestyle. Cheating disappears overnight.

Cause of no end of problems on several fronts...

Ill have to disagree with you strongly here too chip (even now that youve posted it was a joke...albeit an invisible one)

I havent even played a speed or freestyle game in a while, but they are a great addition to the site. Freestyle certainly remove cheating.

Its a fun way to play the game. Perhaps there should be a different scoring for it, than sequential, but there are so many that only play freestyle that it would be a severe blow to CC to remove it. You cant come close to the fun you have in sequential games, to the pure adrenaline rush you get from chasing people around in freestyle.

Most of the complaints seem to come from people who do not play both. I recommend playing both before suggesting that freestyle requires no skill, or should be banned, or is cheating.

Its a different set of skills. It requires speed, click maps, and a fast computer and connection can be an advantage. If you dont have access to those things, it is a disadvantage, so maybe you shouldnt play, but that doesnt mean you cant play, and it doesnt mean that other people shouldnt have the right to play.

CC needs the variety of freestyle games. They are a blast. Many love them. Most have access to the scripts. As much as I love CC, Im actually pretty sure Id just walk away if they were eliminated. To remove a game that so many enjoy would just be wrong. Especially when those games hurt no one, that doesnt play in them. If some think the score isnt as accurate because of them, dont worry about the scoreboard.

If you need a scoreboard to have fun in this game, youve lost the point of the game anyways.

[nagerous]

I think thats a flawed argument to make Bruce that the script hasn't changed anything, it gives the top players a much bigger advantage and is clear. You'll notice that it isn't actually chefs who have complained about the script and the unfair advantage it gives but actually seasoned veterans.

Considering most all of the games you have played fs speed are doodle assassin, hmm really effecting you. The one time you did play an 8 man speed fs esc, was before CM and you got ran over by Prankcall.. but putting that aside I do not see how it has effected you. You have played since CM vs people who use it and won. I see nothing at all wrong with it. As timminz says.. Suck it up cupcake...

Actually in that game there was a secret alliance and thats the reason Prank won but thats all buried under the bushes now.. I'm talking about 1vs1s as well mate when I find people like tsioumiou using legal speed cheats.

You played KP... You beat him.. he uses them... BTW there was no secret alliance.. LOL Iooked at the log.. typically you just got ran over....

Haha, I checked, ok prank beat me twice and in it some guy called HomeWrecker chose to suicide on me and the other someone was being a dick in alberta... not really getting run over when shit like that happens.

[chipv]

Fitz, it was a joke, no need to post an essay - I'm in full agreement and totally had it posting in GD.

[AAFitz]

Fitz, it was a joke, no need to post an essay - I'm in full agreement and totally had it posting in GD.

Well, I dont think anyone realized that was a joke...but yes, I saw that after I posted, but kept it for those who actually believe it...

no need to post an essay....ya...that never stopped me before

[LFAW]

This is a hard discussion topic... very good arguments for both sides.

I personally (and a load of my freestyle friends will yell at me for this) agree with the anti-clickies crowd.

Why?
1) Having clickies doesn't give an even playing field for those that don't have it. I know that everyone can get it and yes I have clickable maps so I can keep up with everyone else because I enjoy freestyle speed. However the fact everyone CAN get it doesn't mean they know about it.

2) The fact is if you don't have it 9 times out of 10 you are going to be crushed by the likes of KP, Demonfork, Me and various other people. I think KP does the right thing by telling people about it but an even playing field would be lovely.

I think that Clickables should be removed for that reason.

Freestyle however is the gods game, its exciting, fast and the best game type IMO. With or without clickies as Bruce says the best will still be there winning most games. Freestyle should not be removed, Clickables should.

HOWEVER Clickable maps, if they were built into the game system somehow so everyone had access without needing Firefox and having to download it would be the best option That way no-one can complain

In kindest regards,
LFAW

P.s. This took me a while to think over and I hope the freestylers in particular understand that what I am saying and aren't too harsh

[Robinette]

This has been an interesting thread....

I am one of those that does NOT have clickable maps, but i am told it is a nice think to have for playing seq., so maybe i'll try it out soon...

I stopped playing freestyle long ago in search of the 'purest form of RISK', so i have not been effected by the CM advantage in freestyle... I would imagine that if that had been around back then my stats would not look so good...
Win rate for 6p std freestyle = 42%
Win rate for 6p std sequential = 25%

I would say that this speaks volumes about how much of an advantage freestyle alone gives to a strategically minded player... Freestyle of old simply made victory too easy... but with CM, sheesh...

Although i can imagine there would be quite the adrenaline rush in a 6p game with skilled opponents all with CM, nothing easy about a victory with those settings...

[Bruceswar]

This has been an interesting thread....

I am one of those that does NOT have clickable maps, but i am told it is a nice think to have for playing seq., so maybe i'll try it out soon...

I stopped playing freestyle long ago in search of the 'purest form of RISK', so i have not been effected by the CM advantage in freestyle... I would imagine that if that had been around back then my stats would not look so good...
Win rate for 6p std freestyle = 42%
Win rate for 6p std sequential = 25%

I would say that this speaks volumes about how much of an advantage freestyle alone gives to a strategically minded player... Freestyle of old simply made victory too easy... but with CM, sheesh...

Although i can imagine there would be quite the adrenaline rush in a 6p game with skilled opponents all with CM, nothing easy about a victory with those settings...

Think about this... 8 players... all with CM ... 5 mins to move and react... esc ... unlimited forts and on classic art.. not as easy as it sounds...

[murphy16]

I personally think the accusement of cheating is silly because everyone has the opportunity to use the same script that we all use to make our selves faster. So please knock it out with the cheating stuff, there is no cheating, just go get firefox and use the same script we opt to use. Oh and if it we considered an illegal advantage, I doubt that lackattack and the CC staff would of allowed the script to available to to us.

Thank you for your time,
murphy16

[murphy16]

By the way I was asked to make a post by JH.

JH asks every one of the whiners to go to call of duty forum and argue that fast clicking and reacting quickly and correctly to another players move within seconds requires no skill

[AndyDufresne]

Lack has had Clickable Maps Option on his own To-Do list for a little while now---I think it would be nice to see it as one of the next Features of this Summer/Fall. It'd be interesting to see how the game would change if it was an option for everyone (without the need of a plugin)...


--Andy

[murphy16]

Lack has had Clickable Maps Option on his own To-Do list for a little while now---I think it would be nice to see it as one of the next Features of this Summer/Fall. It'd be interesting to see how the game would change if it was an option for everyone (without the need of a plugin)...


--Andy

I agree Andy, I think it could make the games move faster and would eliminate the problem and people calling others cheaters for using a plug-in that is available to everyone who has Firefox.

[PLAYER57832]

ok there is a great example of a player that isnt a noob accusing me of cheating

Well, cheating.. maybe not technically. However, if you can use a program which I cannot, then you have an advantage that has nothing to do with skill or dice or anything else available to all in CC.

I don't play freestyle for this and many other reasons.

[owenshooter]

Lack has had Clickable Maps Option on his own To-Do list for a little while now---I think it would be nice to see it as one of the next Features of this Summer/Fall. It'd be interesting to see how the game would change if it was an option for everyone (without the need of a plugin)...


--Andy

I agree Andy, I think it could make the games move faster and would eliminate the problem and people calling others cheaters for using a plug-in that is available to everyone who has Firefox.

i second that... i doubt i would ever venture back into the freestyle fray, but it would be nice if everyone had the same tools and were playing on a level playing field or map or whatever you want to call it...-0