austerlitz

[Scott-Land]

eipi I totally agree. And since English isn't my first language, it makes it even more difficult to figure these maps out. I really think the keys should have to read in English, Spanish and Chinese to reflect the diversity of our forum.

What-- they declared idiotic as a language now? Sorry I can't understand you.

[Blitzaholic]

can someone please create an austerblitz map maybe





or blitzkrieg oh that would be kool

[RedBaron0]

:sigh:

The Foundry is a community process, if you want certain kinds of map, go there and either:
1) make them yourself
2) suggest it and ask someone to make it for you

And the fact is there are many different and stunning maps waiting patiently the Foundry to get put into play, simple, complex, large, and small. The community thinks the Foundry is a isolated group of elitist. While possibly true in a sense, I think it is the community ITSELF that has created this situation. There are several dozen folks and a few volunteers who engage in their passions so the other 8000 paying customers have more and more maps to play on and explore. And they do it for free. Hours of time are spent trying the make that bloody border smooth enough (sorry MrBenn ) to get a stamp. Don't you ever forget that the reason that this site DOES NOT exist without maps

My advice, to ronc8649, and anyone else who cares is this:
Become a part of the process, comment on maps in the Foundry, make suggestions, learn how to make a map yourself if you don't like the way things are going.
--OR--
Shut the hell up.

[the.killing.44]

:sigh:

The Foundry is a community process, if you want certain kinds of map, go there and either:
1) make them yourself
2) suggest it and ask someone to make it for you

And the fact is there are many different and stunning maps waiting patiently the Foundry to get put into play, simple, complex, large, and small. The community thinks the Foundry is a isolated group of elitist. While possibly true in a sense, I think it is the community ITSELF that has created this situation. There are several dozen folks and a few volunteers who engage in their passions so the other 8000 paying customers have more and more maps to play on and explore. And they do it for free. Hours of time are spent trying the make that bloody border smooth enough (sorry MrBenn ) to get a stamp. Don't you ever forget that the reason that this site DOES NOT exist without maps

My advice, to ronc8649, and anyone else who cares is this:
Become a part of the process, comment on map in the Foundry, make suggestions, learn how to make a map yourself if you don't like the way things are going.
--OR--
Shut the hell up.

Okay, I do agree with you on the fact that people should contribute to the process before complaining, but the thing is that this is a different case. As I said before, it all looked well and dandy in the thread, but upon playing on the map, I was so thrown off and all over the place that it does warrant a thread/complaints.

[RedBaron0]

Okay, I do agree with you on the fact that people should contribute to the process before complaining, but the thing is that this is a different case. As I said before, it all looked well and dandy in the thread, but upon playing on the map, I was so thrown off and all over the place that it does warrant a thread/complaints.

And that's totally fine, it is a Beta map and can be commented on, in the Foundry. I just completely disagree with ronc8649's offhanded dismissal of the Foundry process having only ever posted ONCE in the Foundry and that was only a 2 line non-helpful post.

what a poor map.

what the f*ck is the foundry doing?

[Bruceswar]

Okay, I do agree with you on the fact that people should contribute to the process before complaining, but the thing is that this is a different case. As I said before, it all looked well and dandy in the thread, but upon playing on the map, I was so thrown off and all over the place that it does warrant a thread/complaints.

And that's totally fine, it is a Beta map and can be commented on, in the Foundry. I just completely disagree with ronc8649's offhanded dismissal of the Foundry process having only ever posted ONCE in the Foundry and that was only a 2 line non-helpful post.

what a poor map.

what the f*ck is the foundry doing?

Many Share his view on this map. I have seen this map many times in the foundry, and not once have I liked it. Personal choice perhaps, but why post to a map you do not like and your voice will go on dead ears. Remember the foundry does not have to release every map that is tried. Somewhere along the lines the foundry needs to venture out past its walls to find out of the community is even interested in the map itself. Not weather someone can get it through the foundry process. The more maps that come out the more watered down each one is. Meaning less people playing on each map. There are some maps with less than 50 games active on them. 20,000 people and only 50 games? Does not seem like community support to me.

[chipv]

Someone raised a good point in that gameplayers cannot be expected to comment on every map coming out of the Foundry.

I'm not even sure what happens in BETA but I was under the impression that we were going to have a team of regular designated gameplayers
whose job it was to report back to the Foundry purely on gameplay. The result of these reports determined whether or not a map could leave BETA status. If serious gameplay problems were not resolved then the map has to stay in BETA - what is the current process somebody?

[Gypsys Kiss]

Okay, I do agree with you on the fact that people should contribute to the process before complaining, but the thing is that this is a different case. As I said before, it all looked well and dandy in the thread, but upon playing on the map, I was so thrown off and all over the place that it does warrant a thread/complaints.

And that's totally fine, it is a Beta map and can be commented on, in the Foundry. I just completely disagree with ronc8649's offhanded dismissal of the Foundry process having only ever posted ONCE in the Foundry and that was only a 2 line non-helpful post.

what a poor map.

what the f*ck is the foundry doing?

Many Share his view on this map. I have seen this map many times in the foundry, and not once have I liked it. Personal choice perhaps, but why post to a map you do not like and your voice will go on dead ears. Remember the foundry does not have to release every map that is tried. Somewhere along the lines the foundry needs to venture out past its walls to find out of the community is even interested in the map itself. Not weather someone can get it through the foundry process. The more maps that come out the more watered down each one is. Meaning less people playing on each map. There are some maps with less than 50 games active on them. 20,000 people and only 50 games? Does not seem like community support to me.

Surely that is what the foundry is for. It's not a closed shop that the rest of us have to wait and see what comes out. The community is allowed to pop in and say what they like or dont like about a map. Yes it might fall on deaf or unresponsive ears, but hey, at least you tried. The only other option is to run every new map past the 20,000 great unwashed and if one member says 'WTF. This map is shite' bin it. That way we'll have less to complain about.

And what is so supportive about this

what a poor map.

what the f*ck is the foundry doing?

[ronsizzle]

well, apparently, even though i dont have the skills of an AAFitz that writes so eloquently, this thread is serving a good purpose.

i think brucey is right. maps, although they are made, dont have to come out! maybe we can do other things, like hold them in the foundry, and bring them out once in a while. not permanent maps. like st patricks day map.

of course, i am going to play austerlitz to cross map it. i enjoy seeing my maprank in the 138 range. but i will never play this map again after doing so.

i just think maps are going downhill while the rest of the site is going forward......

and btw, can i have das schloss come out for a day?

[cairnswk]

...
Many Share his view on this map. I have seen this map many times in the foundry, and not once have I liked it. Personal choice perhaps, but why post to a map you do not like and your voice will go on dead ears. Remember the foundry does not have to release every map that is tried. Somewhere along the lines the foundry needs to venture out past its walls to find out of the community is even interested in the map itself. Not weather someone can get it through the foundry process. The more maps that come out the more watered down each one is. Meaning less people playing on each map. There are some maps with less than 50 games active on them. 20,000 people and only 50 games? Does not seem like community support to me.

Bruceswar...community support is not about having one or a few only products available. If that was the case, then CC would still have whatver map was available as Classic and nothing else.
As you know in every store there are usually many products on display for sale, otherwise how dull our lives would be.
The market thrives on variety and some people because they have choice and choice is a subjective thing will choose different products at different times. Simply by having all these maps available for choice makes CC a better market.

As for the foundry venturing out beyond it walls, this has been suggested in the past and even tried by myself when i tried to raise my map topics in General Discussion but that was squashed by whomever at the time said that everything had to be so compartmentalised, so back to the foundry i went and stayed.

Perhaps the foundry should be stuck right under the noses of where seems to have an opinion on almost everything.....

Code: Select all

General Discussion
                 Map Foundry (stickied at the top)
                          - New Ideas - Main Foudry - Final Forge

General discussion topics follow hereunder.....

Perhaps then we'd have some decent discussion about the maps....since we can't lead the horses to water, and ronc8649 (and others) won't come to the foundry (although he appears to know what is happening with Das Schloß, so he must've been to the foundry), we can move the water to the horse in this virtual world.

[cairnswk]

...
and btw, can i have das schloss come out for a day?

i'm trying, i'm trying, but i can only move as fast as the foundry mods will move, and of late that seems to be snails pace...

[ronsizzle]

I DONT GO TO THE FOUNDRY.

i asked for das schloss back like other cc'ers who like to cross map all maps. that is the only one i dont have except for all these new ones that came out.

and like 44 said earlier, some maps might look good in the foundry, but the game play sucks.

i am looking for cc to get better, not worse.

i also think your logic is not all that good. bruce made a good point. if the community doesnt support it, the map most likely sucks.

[cairnswk]

....
i just think maps are going downhill while the rest of the site is going forward......

I don't think maps are going downhill ronc....what we have is more people in the marketplace willing to give mapmaking a go (for whatever reason) and thus there is a new batch of ideas in grpahic form arriving in the shop.
If the community doesn't like a map and the mapmaker still wants to have it avaialble for play, then it's up to the mapmaker to try and change whatever it is that is not liked....point in case, Das Schloß.

[cairnswk]

....
i also think your logic is not all that good. bruce made a good point. if the community doesnt support it, the map most likely sucks.

sure Bruce made a good point....
but simply because the whole community doesn't support something doesn't mean that it can't be available for those who do support it. as i said, if we all had this approach, we'd all still be playing Classic and nothing else. And that is fine for those players who deem they only want to play calssic, but don't restrict the rest of the players and the community having that variety simply because you have some particular ideas of how fixed things should be.
beta is where gameplay it being tested and if it weren't for the foundry and others thinking ooutside the box on putting that in place then you wouldn't have that facility.
I think it's your logic that is wrong ronc, simply because you fail to participate in the foundry process...

[owenshooter]

I think it's your logic that is wrong ronc, simply because you fail to participate in the foundry process...

oddly enough, this sums up the problem... you figure out why people like ronc don't participate in the foundry, then you figure out why there is so little traffic in the foundry. the short sighted and wholly misguided idea that moving the foundry higher up the board index would create more traffic, obviously has not worked. i have made an effort to poke about the foundry more often, and in general i see what bruce stated. so the stigma that the foundry is elitist and stubborn and an "ol' boys network" remains. for the most part if you disagree, you are shouted down or you don't know what is going on or you need to respect someone's work.

then there is a thread like First Nations where the entire thread was very productive and it moved forward very easily (too slow in the eyes of many people eager to play the map). toss in mr. benn locking a map for review after some valid complaints by a few members, which led to eventual changes, and you can see how the new leadership in the foundry is trying to be pro-active and more inclusive. i personally have given the foundry a 4th chance, because i think mr. benn is truly trying to make it a more inclusive place.-0

[ronsizzle]

cairnswk.......what maps have you made? can i have a list please?

[jbrettlip]

cairnswk.......what maps have you made? can i have a list please?

Just click his profile, adn you can see his maps on the "medal detail". Pearl harbor is his best. Poison Rome, not so much...

And Walmart pulls the slower selling product. There is nothing wrong with thinning the herd. Unless in 4 years, you want to be able to choose from 1000 maps.. That would be a mess.

And Scott-Land....nice flame. and F-off.

[owenshooter]

And Scott-Land....nice flame. and F-off.

Scott posted something in here? funny, i can't see that... no doubt it was probably just a flame and not on topic, as usual. back to the subject at hand... i really think that being able to comment on maps during beta is very beneficial to the maps. so, i still don't understand why there isn't a direct link on the map, like tournament games have, so users can go comment. many users rarely venture into the forums. i don't understand why people think someone is going to take the time to go to the "start a game" tab, click on the map, and then click on the thread. if they aren't interested in the forums/foundry, why are they going to take the time to do it or how would they know to do it. i know that comments in beta may be far too late for wholesale changes, but it seems to be the part of the process where most of the comments are now coming from. perhaps the foundry should rethink the process they have if they want more opinions/comments on a map. maybe make the beta period a bit longer and let the mapmaker know that major overhauls may be necessary. look at the new germany map fiasco. i am never playing that map again. i had no idea it was being changed. it just changed in the middle of a match and everyone in the game flipped their lids. i went and made my comments, but apparently, it is far too late for any large scale changes. again, maybe the foundry needs to rethink the map process if they want more comments/input... i think mr. benn has taken the foundry in the right direction, but maybe it is the process that needs to be looked at...-0

[Bruceswar]

cairnswk.......what maps have you made? can i have a list please?

Cairns is the king of Complex maps! While the may not be for everybody I respect his work and it does have a place in CC. He has tons of nice maps out and personally no offense to the map maker, but I think Cairns would have done this more justice. This map is just not one I can get behind.

[Bruceswar]

Since Ronc asked... Those are all the Cairnswk maps


cairnswk Australia Australia Profile
22 Maps Credits Launched
Bamboo Jack Bamboo Jack Idea , Gameplay , Graphics , XML 2nd November 2007
Battle Of Actium Battle Of Actium Idea , Gameplay , Graphics , XML 21st September 2007
Cairns Coral Coast Cairns Coral Coast Idea , Gameplay , Graphics , XML 16th May 2007
Egypt: Lower Egypt: Lower Idea , Gameplay , Graphics , XML 9th June 2008
Egypt: Nubia Egypt: Nubia Idea , Gameplay , Graphics , XML 7th August 2008
Egypt: Upper Egypt: Upper Idea , Gameplay , Graphics , XML 2nd July 2008
Egypt: Valley Of The Kings Egypt: Valley Of The Kings Idea , Gameplay , Graphics 31st July 2007
Forbidden City Forbidden City Idea , Gameplay , Graphics , XML 22nd October 2008
Halloween Hollows Halloween Hollows Idea , Gameplay , Graphics , XML 19th October 2008
Madness Madness Idea , Gameplay , Graphics , XML 15th November 2007
Pearl Harbor Pearl Harbor Idea , Gameplay , Graphics , XML 9th September 2007
Prohibition Chicago Prohibition Chicago Idea , Gameplay , Graphics , XML 28th February 2008
Rail Europe Rail Europe Idea , Gameplay , Graphics , XML 16th April 2008
Rail USA Rail USA Idea , Gameplay , XML 9th September 2007
Sydney Metro Sydney Metro Idea , Gameplay , Graphics , XML 24th June 2008
Treasures Of Galapagos Treasures Of Galapagos Idea , Gameplay , Graphics , XML 25th June 2008
Waterloo Waterloo Idea , Gameplay , Graphics 15th January 2008
WWII Australia WWII Australia Idea , Gameplay , Graphics , XML 14th June 2007
WWII Gazala WWII Gazala Idea , Gameplay , Graphics 25th March 2008
Rail Australia Rail Australia Idea , Gameplay , Graphics , XML 27th December 2008
WWI Ottoman Empire WWI Ottoman Empire Idea , Gameplay , Graphics , XML 3rd February 2009
Cairns Metro Cairns Metro Idea , Gameplay , Graphics , XML 3rd February 2009

[Supermarioluigi]

I love Cairnswk, now that I know what maps he made.

[laughingcavalier]

Full credit to the foundry guys who have done so much for cc. No comment on specific maps - some of my favourites are minority maps, which I go to for specific types of gameplay to which they are suited.
With so many maps now though, there is a danger of overload. Too many maps and we may overwhelm all but the most committed players.
Must be asked: now we have such a diversity do we need to set the bar for new maps higher so we can keep a control on map numbers? Maybe new maps should meet tough criteria like:
They introduce a new element to gameplay
They have similarities to a heavily played map, so can offer variety to players of that map.
They introduce a new graphical or historical/ geograhical concept.
How to implement that?
The foundry could put a gate on what goes into beta
Or a map in beta might be dropped if it does not get x number of games in 3 months.
Or just the map menu sorted into 2 lists: core maps & secondly specialist maps, requiring the diehards to make an extra click to find them.

[the.killing.44]

They introduce a new element to gameplay

Maybe lack could give us some new fucking XML tools with which to use on maps for the first time in over a year…

[Juan_Bottom]

First of all, I really really like austerlitz.

Second of all, Cairnswk is one of the best mapmakers here, and a personal favorite of mine.

so the stigma that the foundry is elitist and stubborn and an "ol' boys network" remains. for the most part if you disagree, you are shouted down or you don't know what is going on or you need to respect someone's work.

This is very true. Before my recent 4 month absence, I always participated in the Drafting Room, and followed the work of a few random maps or mapmakers. But from my experience owenshooter hit the nail on the head. I have been ignored, shouted down, and had people be downright rude about these things. There was a lot of "we are so great" camaraderie going on there.
And I want to make it clear that it was not because I have no graphic skills or don't know what I am talking about or anything like that. So let's not reply with that.

That is why Cairnswk is one of my favs though. He always responds intelligently, and takes criticism very well. I think that he uses the system the correct way.

[cairnswk]

Since Ronc asked... Those are all the Cairnswk maps
details.....

Thanks Bruceswar for listing that. Much appreciated, although i think that points to the fact that Chipv's database needs linking in several places around this site, mainly on the map play page itself and also more prominently in the Foundry, not being stuck down the back of where nobody knows where it is.
I had gone through my maps to see how many were active, and yes there are several that have less than 50 active games, but there is many that have more than 50 active games. And yes i will acknowledge once again that my maps are complex, but many are deisnged to get players thinking and work things out for themselves.
As for insrtuction taking over the map space, well that goes without saying if one is creating complex maps, although i dare to say that the original game of this cames with some 19 pages of instructions and the boards has changed since i saw it originally in the 1980s. So i don't think we do too badly as far as instructions go, and i certainly know there is a hell of a lot of time put into making these instructions on maps easier for players to follow. However, i'll never understand why some players still don't get that 2 + 2 = 4