What can be done to reverse the decline?

[waauw]

This is what happens in 95% games I play against premium members.

Stop with the conspiracy bullshit. I can still somewhat understand people like Cafeine who think the list generates too many what should be outliers, but you're just takling nonsense. There are plenty of freemiums who've been able to climb to high ranks.

FYI, stop playing 1v1 if you don't like luck-based games. No game is more luck dependent than a 1v1.

[degaston]

Quit with the ridiculously complicated maps:

Actual foundry map at the moment-

Click image to enlarge.

Yes - I'm sure if we remove all the complicated maps, people will come rushing back to the site.

This map is not meant for novice players. If you don't like it, then don't play it, but don't try to blame the decline on new maps. The site should have added the ability to sort, search and filter the map list long ago. New content is what keeps people interested and coming back to a site. This site hasn't had a new map in 1 1/2 years. There are many things that could be done to reverse the decline - preventing the development of complicated maps is definitely NOT one of them.

FYI, Here's a comment from the chat of a game using this map on the beta site:

btw, the complexity and various options to be able to attack and counterattack really make this a fun and playable map. Thanks!

[owenshooter]

the below comments sums up a large problem on the site that we have been saying since the decline began... SEPARATE THE MAPS INTO CATEGORIES!!!!! it is that simple. there is a huge step in reversing the decline. people join, they are able to see all the maps in categories, but only play basic maps. hit X amount of games or X score and unlock the next tier. give people a goal. give people a fucking chance. they get on the site and most of the games are FOG/TRENCH/IMPOSSIBLE MAP, that is not fun. if they want to play that, they can join a clan later on in their tenure. there are too many settings, too many maps, they are both contributing greatly to the decline. get rid of trench, change the freestyle rules back and most importantly GO BACK TO RANDOM.ORG for the fucking dice. this thread is a moot point (hope you are happy riskllama, i would much rather prefer my smart ass "mute" in this instance), they have not taken up one of these suggestions and implemented it, in a sign of good will. the black jesus is growing tired... thankfully, it is almost Black Friday and i'll be able to rest for three days, instead of carrying this site on my back...-Jésus noir

Quit with the ridiculously complicated maps:

Actual foundry map at the moment-

Click image to enlarge.

Yes - I'm sure if we remove all the complicated maps, people will come rushing back to the site.

This map is not meant for novice players. If you don't like it, then don't play it, but don't try to blame the decline on new maps. The site should have added the ability to sort, search and filter the map list long ago. New content is what keeps people interested and coming back to a site. This site hasn't had a new map in 1 1/2 years. There are many things that could be done to reverse the decline - preventing the development of complicated maps is definitely NOT one of them.

FYI, Here's a comment from the chat of a game using this map on the beta site:

btw, the complexity and various options to be able to attack and counterattack really make this a fun and playable map. Thanks!

[JBlombier]

When you've played long enough in real life, you know that there's no "luck" in 15vs2 repeatedly becoming 3vs2 almost every game, and even several times in the same game if not in the same battle.

15v2 becomes 3v2 repeatedly, almost every game?
I can't even remember the last time I lost a 15v2. I know I have, though. Hell, I know I've lost worse than that. But really, it doesn't happen that often. Does that mean I really get the best dice CC has to offer? Because apart from a lil basic statistics knowledge (which really isn't much, trust me), I just follow my gut feeling. And my gut feeling says that eventhough the dice aren't random by definition (because they repeat a list), it hasn't effected my gaming experience one bit in the past 8 years.

- JBlombier

PS. At the annual VDLL meeting last November we've encountered some severe streakiness as well, playing actual risk with actual dice. We were happily surprised to find that these streaks actually do occur in real life, at least I was. We also forgot about 'em while drinking and eating pizza. So there's a piece of advice for free.
PPS. Edit: we didn't play Risk™, we played the Benelux map on laminated A1 paper. Much better...

[jmyork82]

PPS. Edit: we didn't play Risk™, we played the Benelux map on laminated A1 paper. Much better...

you should get a CC medal for that, just cause

PS, pictures or it didnt happen

[JBlombier]

Ah, pictures are no problem! Someone in our Whatsapp-group must've got 'em. I'll post them when they're found!

[Condestável]

This is what happens in 95% games I play against premium members.

Stop with the conspiracy bullshit. I can still somewhat understand people like Cafeine who think the list generates too many what should be outliers, but you're just takling nonsense. There are plenty of freemiums who've been able to climb to high ranks.

FYI, stop playing 1v1 if you don't like luck-based games. No game is more luck dependent than a 1v1.

lmao at "conspiracy".

I regularly play against Zazzo, he only plays 1x1 and he plays just like me. Same exact strategy. After 5 rounds he has 2x my units. Regularly.
memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=455441

He's 62% wins and I'm 46% wins.

Yeah, because it would be totally illogical to give customers a recurring edge so that they feel happy. Never happened. Pay-to-win is not at all a recurring issue in modern gaming. The world is all christian honesty, that's what we all believe, and of course beliefs and feelings are much more important than facts.

Because it's totally logical that against free members my stats are all ok while against premium, no matter how shitty they are, my 3x2 battle outcomes are absurdly negative even in long runs.

[Kevi]

I'm premium and have had many bad streaks against freemiums who in turn have had good streaks against me. If the theory that premiums get better dice than freemiums is true, then why doesn't it work for me?

[Symmetry]

Quit with the ridiculously complicated maps:

Actual foundry map at the moment-

Click image to enlarge.

Yes - I'm sure if we remove all the complicated maps, people will come rushing back to the site.

This map is not meant for novice players. If you don't like it, then don't play it, but don't try to blame the decline on new maps. The site should have added the ability to sort, search and filter the map list long ago. New content is what keeps people interested and coming back to a site. This site hasn't had a new map in 1 1/2 years. There are many things that could be done to reverse the decline - preventing the development of complicated maps is definitely NOT one of them.

FYI, Here's a comment from the chat of a game using this map on the beta site:

btw, the complexity and various options to be able to attack and counterattack really make this a fun and playable map. Thanks!

Not really an issue of getting people back, though is it? More about attracting new players.

I'm sure it's tons of fun for people who don't want to play Risk.

Good games, IMHO, rely on simple rules to allow complex strategies.

[iAmCaffeine]

Blame it on the sunshine.

[degaston]

Not really an issue of getting people back, though is it?

Why the hell not? Maybe they should fix some of the biggest problems with the site and send out emails to former players. Which sales pitch do you think would work better:

Hi Former Member,

We've just eliminated a bunch of complicated maps and settings, made the game finder more difficult to scan through, and added Tic-Tac-Toe! Why don't you come back and play some more of the games and settings that you already played (if you can find them) until you got bored with the site and quit!

Don't forget - We've got Tic-Tac-Toe!

or:

Hi Former Member,

We've just gone back to using truly random dice, improved the interface for finding the games you like, and added some new ways to play and some new maps! Why don't you come back and try something you haven't played before!

... More about attracting new players.

Why should new players want to join up with a site that is in decline? And what good will it do anyway if people are leaving faster than they're joining? Marketing people say that it's much more expensive and difficult to get a new customer than to retain an existing one. I don't even know what BigWham is doing anymore. Since the beginning of September he's only made 2 posts in the forum. Judging from his last post, it seems that he's realized how difficult it is to get a new player to stay, but I see no sign that he's put any effort into keeping existing players.

I'm sure it's tons of fun for people who don't want to play Risk.

Good games, IMHO, rely on simple rules to allow complex strategies.

Each person can have their own opinion about what's fun for them. Personally, I don't much care for the classic map - I've played it plenty of times and there's nothing new to be found there. I don't like 1v1 games either - how complex can the strategy be when you always know who you have to attack, and who is going to attack you? But I don't suggest that these options be removed from the site simply because I don't like them.

Does the mere existence of maps that you don't want to play somehow make you want to leave the site? There are many options out there for someone who wants to play a simple game of classic RISK, but the maps and settings here are unique, and it would only hurt the site if they were removed.

[WingCmdr Ginkapo]

Blame it on the boogie

[owenshooter]

Blame it on the boogie

sounds good to me!!! if we could get some CC flash mobs around the world, Blame it on the boogie COULD save CC!!! GREAT IDEA!!!
the black jesus is impressed...-Jésus noir

[Symmetry]

Not really an issue of getting people back, though is it?

Why the hell not? Maybe they should fix some of the biggest problems with the site and send out emails to former players. Which sales pitch do you think would work better:

Hi Former Member,

We've just eliminated a bunch of complicated maps and settings, made the game finder more difficult to scan through, and added Tic-Tac-Toe! Why don't you come back and play some more of the games and settings that you already played (if you can find them) until you got bored with the site and quit!

Don't forget - We've got Tic-Tac-Toe!

or:

Hi Former Member,

We've just gone back to using truly random dice, improved the interface for finding the games you like, and added some new ways to play and some new maps! Why don't you come back and try something you haven't played before!

... More about attracting new players.

Why should new players want to join up with a site that is in decline? And what good will it do anyway if people are leaving faster than they're joining? Marketing people say that it's much more expensive and difficult to get a new customer than to retain an existing one. I don't even know what BigWham is doing anymore. Since the beginning of September he's only made 2 posts in the forum. Judging from his last post, it seems that he's realized how difficult it is to get a new player to stay, but I see no sign that he's put any effort into keeping existing players.

I'm sure it's tons of fun for people who don't want to play Risk.

Good games, IMHO, rely on simple rules to allow complex strategies.

Each person can have their own opinion about what's fun for them. Personally, I don't much care for the classic map - I've played it plenty of times and there's nothing new to be found there. I don't like 1v1 games either - how complex can the strategy be when you always know who you have to attack, and who is going to attack you?

A damning indictment of the lack of strategy involved in playing, say, chess. And so spirited!

I don't think "former" players are "existing" players- you're getting your categories confused.

Spamming former players with new, more complicated versions of the game they left seems unlikely to draw them back in any case.

[degaston]

A damning indictment of the lack of strategy involved in playing, say, chess. And so spirited!

Do you think the strategy of RISK and chess is comparable? Because I don't, and I don't think my comment had anything to do with the strategy involved in chess. Poker would be a better comparison - unlike chess, both involve random elements and incomplete information. But then I would assume that if you were on a poker site, you would tell them that to increase membership they should quit with the ridiculously complicated variations like HORSE?

I don't think "former" players are "existing" players- you're getting your categories confused.

Spamming former players with new, more complicated versions of the game they left seems unlikely to draw them back in any case.

Where did I say that "former" players are "existing" players? And sending out an occasional email (with the usual "take me off the mailing list" option) is not spamming - it's just smart business. I often see people mention in the forum that they have returned after not playing for years. People who used to be active on the site are the most likely to be willing to come back if some of the problems with the site are addressed. I went over a year without playing, and then came back after I checked in and saw that they had added some new game types and map codes. I might have come back sooner if they had ever bothered to contact me and tell me about the improvements they were making.

[b00060]

I agree with a lot of what has already been posted. Make it easier for new players to understand and have certain maps and settings unlock as their experience grows. Give them something to work towards and allows them to be competitive in maps and settings that are easier to understand for beginners. oh and add A LOT more medals to work towards!

[WingCmdr Ginkapo]

have certain maps and settings unlock as their experience grows.

They do, and I'm pretty sure I've said that in this thread before.

[Condestável]

A damning indictment of the lack of strategy involved in playing, say, chess. And so spirited!

Do you think the strategy of RISK and chess is comparable? Because I don't, and I don't think my comment had anything to do with the strategy involved in chess. Poker would be a better comparison - unlike chess, both involve random elements and incomplete information. But then I would assume that if you were on a poker site, you would tell them that to increase membership they should quit with the ridiculously complicated variations like HORSE?

Yes, poker sites for example are the prime example of absolutely clean and non-manipulated activities. Isai Steinberg or Raymond Bitar are totally honest people who work for fun.

Good call.

[degaston]

A damning indictment of the lack of strategy involved in playing, say, chess. And so spirited!

Do you think the strategy of RISK and chess is comparable? Because I don't, and I don't think my comment had anything to do with the strategy involved in chess. Poker would be a better comparison - unlike chess, both involve random elements and incomplete information. But then I would assume that if you were on a poker site, you would tell them that to increase membership they should quit with the ridiculously complicated variations like HORSE?

Yes, poker sites for example are the prime example of absolutely clean and non-manipulated activities. Isai Steinberg or Raymond Bitar are totally honest people who work for fun.

Good call.

Well, that wasn't what I was going for, but a lot of people think the dice are rigged here, so I guess that's something else they have in common.

[iAmCaffeine]

have certain maps and settings unlock as their experience grows.

They do, and I'm pretty sure I've said that in this thread before.

Only complicated maps which are completely available once completing five games; not many. Bot games are restricted to simple maps. It could be more developed, but there have been a few detailed suggestions on the topic which all amounted to nothing.

[paulgamelb]

I have been a member of CC for over eight years and the site has changed a lot in that time. For a site like this to succeed, it needs new players to keep coming along to check it out and then keep playing.
My brother got me into CC all those years ago and he stopped about three years back. He came back onto the site a couple of months ago just for a look and couldn't believe the changes. His opinion was too many maps with too many settings, most of which weren't there when he was playing. If that was overwhelming for someone who had used the site for years, how must that look to someone visiting for the first time?

It was easier when I joined, there wasn't a lot of maps there. The experience for the new user needs to be better. It's been said by several people, categorise the maps, make the searches easier, limit the maps and settings the new user can see, hook them in and make them want to see more.

[owenshooter]

My brother got me into CC all those years ago and he stopped about three years back. He came back onto the site a couple of months ago just for a look and couldn't believe the changes. His opinion was too many maps with too many settings, most of which weren't there when he was playing. If that was overwhelming for someone who had used the site for years, how must that look to someone visiting for the first time?

It was easier when I joined, there wasn't a lot of maps there. The experience for the new user needs to be better. It's been said by several people, categorise the maps, make the searches easier, limit the maps and settings the new user can see, hook them in and make them want to see more.

this same anecdote has been stated, almost verbatim, by multiple members in this thread!!! and guess what? we are all not talking about the same ONE FRIEND!!! if Big Wham takes nothing else from this thread, IT SHOULD BE THIS!!! i hear this time and time again from other members!! i hear this time and time again from clan mates that return to the site, only to leave again in confusion over the confusion of finding a damn game to play!!! this needs to be addressed... if former paying members or even former freemium members, are not able to come back and understand what the hell is going on, how do we expect newbies to understand?! it! makes! no! sense! the black jesus has spoken...-Jésus noir

[IcePack]

My brother got me into CC all those years ago and he stopped about three years back. He came back onto the site a couple of months ago just for a look and couldn't believe the changes. His opinion was too many maps with too many settings, most of which weren't there when he was playing. If that was overwhelming for someone who had used the site for years, how must that look to someone visiting for the first time?

It was easier when I joined, there wasn't a lot of maps there. The experience for the new user needs to be better. It's been said by several people, categorise the maps, make the searches easier, limit the maps and settings the new user can see, hook them in and make them want to see more.

this same anecdote has been stated, almost verbatim, by multiple members in this thread!!! and guess what? we are all not talking about the same ONE FRIEND!!! if Big Wham takes nothing else from this thread, IT SHOULD BE THIS!!! i hear this time and time again from other members!! i hear this time and time again from clan mates that return to the site, only to leave again in confusion over the confusion of finding a damn game to play!!! this needs to be addressed... if former paying members or even former freemium members, are not able to come back and understand what the hell is going on, how do we expect newbies to understand?! it! makes! no! sense! the black jesus has spoken...-Jésus noir

A new users experience is much different than an old player returning. New users have had a lot of things change, as beta and admin spent a lot of time trying out different new user experiences so as to help them learn the site and play.

[degaston]

A new users experience is much different than an old player returning. New users have had a lot of things change, as beta and admin spent a lot of time trying out different new user experiences so as to help them learn the site and play.

How many maps can new users see?
Can they sort, search and filter to find the maps they like?
If there are going to be multiple interfaces anyway, wouldn't it be better if every user could choose for themselves which interface they see?

Many applications have both simple and an advanced versions of dialogs to allow people to easily use the most common features, and only see the advanced features if they want them.

[IcePack]

A new users experience is much different than an old player returning. New users have had a lot of things change, as beta and admin spent a lot of time trying out different new user experiences so as to help them learn the site and play.

How many maps can new users see?
Can they sort, search and filter to find the maps they like?
If there are going to be multiple interfaces anyway, wouldn't it be better if every user could choose for themselves which interface they see?

Many applications have both simple and an advanced versions of dialogs to allow people to easily use the most common features, and only see the advanced features if they want them.

I know there are restrictions on maps and settings, but not sort, search, filter as far as I know (I've been off beta now for awhile).