Ratings Reloaded - Community Consultation - UPDATED

[RockyRob]

THE NEW RATINGS SYSTEM SUCKS!!! there is no way to challenge unfair, unreasonable, spiteful ratings left by sore losers and idiots.
without any checks and balances the new system gives too much power to inept, pathetic a-holes.

who's in charge over there? first the brilliant "new" classic map and now this? it's not looking like i'll be renewing my membership...

[mightyredarmy]

This site has enough people to play on, where you can put people on ignore, and move on!

who cares if someone had a bad experience. Doesn't mean you will. Why can't we all get along, and bitch about each other in Flame Wars.

It's all a matter of opinion. A old lady might not like how a young boy plays, so what?

The only thing that should be a matter of concern is someone who deadbeats. IF you don't like the way a person plays. MOVE ON.... go join a Clan and go against their clan.

Why is everybody concerned with how others play? I don't get it.

It's just a game people.

Nothing wrong with good competition, but wanting to rate other people, and slam them, because they don't play the game the way you think they should???? sheesh oh man, this is getting beyond serious.

Everybody play me, I will always give you 5 stars or nothing at all.....

By bad experience, I mean:

1. deadbeating
2. seriously abusive and unnecessary language in chat

I wouldn't mark someone down for a 'different' style of gameplay and didn't say that in my post.

[Chariot of Fire]

It seems the two issues most people have a problem with are:

1) Not being able to determine the characteristics of a player simply from a rating of, say, 4.5 which doesn't tell one anything.

2) The facility for some disgruntled player to leave unjustified 1s across the board.

Surely this can be remedied, maybe as follows:

1) Reintroduce the old feedback system and have the feedback ratio appear next to a player's name, e.g. 98:2 indicates a decent player who has had 2 negs. However the feedback is no longer monitored or regulated by the mods due to the workload - fair enough.

2) Instead of adopting a 'mean' average for the new ratings, switch to a median or mode average. That will eliminate the biased 1s and 5s that were awarded either unfairly or by friends. Or as someone else suggested, discount the lowest 10 and highest 10 (or whatever figure is deemed suitable) the same way they do in the Olympics when judging - this eliminates favouritism or unfair downgrading.

As for attendance....I'm sure that could be easily automated by system admin. I'm in Hong Kong yet my time zone hasn't affected my ability to take my turns promptly, so would welcome an 'average wait time' figure to be included in a player's bio.

Good luck with whatever you choose to do. Even if it stays as it is, it won't impair my enjoyment of this site. It's the mechanics of gameplay that matter the most and it's safe to argue that they are flawless

[JoshyBoy]

There is one problem... I rate a player at 5 stars because he was good and played an excekllent game... then he goes and gives me a 1-1-1! Wtf?!?!? Seriously on the old system people could give you negative feedback and you could RESPOND... you cant do that with the new ratings... hello?!!! Is CC blind? This new system sucks! Look at my ratings JoshyBoy I'm an overall 4.7 but some idiots have given me 1-1-1 for no good reason! The new system sucks get rid of it!

[jiminski]

There is one problem... I rate a player at 5 stars because he was good and played an excekllent game... then he goes and gives me a 1-1-1! Wtf?!?!? Seriously on the old system people could give you negative feedback and you could RESPOND... you cant do that with the new ratings... hello?!!! Is CC blind? This new system sucks! Look at my ratings JoshyBoy I'm an overall 4.7 but some idiots have given me 1-1-1 for no good reason! The new system sucks get rid of it!

I don't think they are blind Joshy.. they just know that it does not really matter to people and the sites needs outweighed the general affection for the old system (and they had a good go at giving an alternative to serve both).
The feedback does not fundamentally affect gameplay (though it does change who people will play) So although written comments were a nice bonus and the best way to cement allegiances, triggering personal discourse, they were just a bonus. And though they did aid a sense of community most users do not come here for that anyway.

I have been here a while and have already made many friends and a network of excellent, fun players. So personally i am neither leaving star ratings nor using feedback to judge opponents. Talking absolutely selfishly; not having feedback makes practically no difference to my overall experience on the site.

[homes32]

everybody needs to go back and read the 1st post. Lack started this thread so we could give him ideas and discuss how to make this system better. not so we could have yet another bitching thread. whether we like it or not it has been made quite clear that the old system is NOT coming back. so lets move on. Lack is giving us a chance to help design and revamp the system. lets take advantage of it.

Problem: We want to know the reasons behind the stars, but written comments lead to too many complaints.
Solution: Introduce descriptive tags that you can attach to ratings, to explain them. >> discussion topic <<

Problem: There is too much inconsistency - some people follow our scale and leave 3 for an average player, others typically leave 5.
Solution: Display average rating left (ARL) on each rating and factor it into your overall rating score. >> discussion topic <<

Problem: We have few options when left "unfair" ratings.
Solution: Allow written responses to ratings. >> discussion topic <<

Problem: We want to rate gameplay behaviour that affects the game experience for others, but doesn't fall under "Fair Play".
Solution: Introduce an attribute for Gameplay (which would include teamwork). >> discussion topic <<

None of this is set in stone and we need you input! Please comment on the individual solutions in their respective topics and comment on our overall approach here.

Thanks for helping us make a better Conquer Club!

EDIT: Due to popular demand I've added a 5th point to the plan...

Problem: Attendance should be automated, not a rating!
Solution: Add attendance stat to player profile, remove it from ratings. >> discussion topic <<

[remydog]

Forgive me if this was already covered elsewhere in the thread, but my time is limited, so I don't have time to go back and read all the comments.

The ability to add comments is invaluable. In the old system, I did not rely solely on ratings, but went in and read why someone might have received poor ratings. Often, it was disappointment about the way a particular way a game turned out and nothing endemic to the player. Sometimes, there were consistent bad ratings about behavioral issues - poor sportsmanship, profanity and the like.

I would propose that if you are leaving a three or less in any of the ratings, that you be required to say a few words about why the member does not merit a higher rating.

[killerkern]

before the ratings systems changed my feed back was 101+ & 8-

Yes i had some derogitory feedback from spite full players but i never complained about it. I am a grown up for christ sakes i can take it. Its not like they are in you r front living room calling you out in front of your family. Tey should have left it alone & people shouldnt have bitched so much about the comments that a few small petty lonly people were leaving you from the safety af their computer.

[Beastly]

This site has enough people to play on, where you can put people on ignore, and move on!

who cares if someone had a bad experience. Doesn't mean you will. Why can't we all get along, and bitch about each other in Flame Wars.

It's all a matter of opinion. A old lady might not like how a young boy plays, so what?

The only thing that should be a matter of concern is someone who deadbeats. IF you don't like the way a person plays. MOVE ON.... go join a Clan and go against their clan.

Why is everybody concerned with how others play? I don't get it.

It's just a game people.

Nothing wrong with good competition, but wanting to rate other people, and slam them, because they don't play the game the way you think they should???? sheesh oh man, this is getting beyond serious.

Everybody play me, I will always give you 5 stars or nothing at all.....

By bad experience, I mean:

1. deadbeating
2. seriously abusive and unnecessary language in chat

I wouldn't mark someone down for a 'different' style of gameplay and didn't say that in my post.

Deadbeating is a concern, and we should have something that shows how many games played to finished games.

but for your #2. You use your ignore button... What you find abusive and unnecessary may be enjoyment to another. It's all a matter of opinion, and you know what they say about opinions, they are like assholes, everyone has one... However I need others opinions as much as I need a asshole on my elbow.

[JoshyBoy]

There is one problem... I rate a player at 5 stars because he was good and played an excekllent game... then he goes and gives me a 1-1-1! Wtf?!?!? Seriously on the old system people could give you negative feedback and you could RESPOND... you cant do that with the new ratings... hello?!!! Is CC blind? This new system sucks! Look at my ratings JoshyBoy I'm an overall 4.7 but some idiots have given me 1-1-1 for no good reason! The new system sucks get rid of it!

I don't think they are blind Joshy.. they just know that it does not really matter to people and the sites needs outweighed the general affection for the old system (and they had a good go at giving an alternative to serve both).
The feedback does not fundamentally affect gameplay (though it does change who people will play) So although written comments were a nice bonus and the best way to cement allegiances, triggering personal discourse, they were just a bonus. And though they did aid a sense of community most users do not come here for that anyway.

I have been here a while and have already made many friends and a network of excellent, fun players. So personally i am neither leaving star ratings nor using feedback to judge opponents. Talking absolutely selfishly; not having feedback makes practically no difference to my overall experience on the site.

Well I have to concede that point cause I too have found that I dont really take any notice of anyone's ratings... I just play whoevers in the game... but t ratings system is in one word UNFAIR... I too have made friends on here and enemies and the ratings dont really say much to anyone so la dee da... I have to agree with the other person who said earlier... IF IT AINT BROKE DONT FIX IT... so the old feedback was hard work but it WORKED! this new system doesnt and I just wish they had left it at that... the medals was a good idea i like that... but the ratings medal is too easy you just have to click 2 or three times and you've got another counter towards getting a medal. I myself will soon have the Gold medal for atings coz I find it soo easy just to click on someone and give them some stars. Here's an idea...

With the old feedback system you actually have to put some effort into it rather than just clicking on stars. so then your earning your medal a lot more coz ure having to work for it by writing stuff about your opponents. So keep the ratings medal, just call it feedback lol

[jwithington]

No system is perfect.

I bet most people, when rating on youtube, etc., do the same thing--i like this movie, so five stars! i hate this movie, so 1 star!"

Just be sure whatever you do, you publish succinct, clear guidelines, and most people will follow them (like, is one turn a day "Average" attendance?, etc.). The outliers will eventually wash out, esp with the average score you are using.

I am really glad to see that the one (ridiculous) negative comment i got doesn't matter anymore. Eliminating that system was a great move.

[bayou]

There is an important aspect to the old system that I feel is being overlooked. The word 'feedback' in itself should make a point. I am low rank. Rank does not matter to me. Enjoying the game and learning is much more important. Sure, feedback does not matter to someone that can play this game with their eyes closed. Positive feedback also included constructive comments.
The stars give me nothing to go on.
I do not know a lot of people on here. Some of the feedback I received gave me the ability to feel comfortable with pming a player and ask to play with them again.

The new system does not matter to a lot of the expert players here. It sure took away a good tool for those of us that will never achieve that level.

[alster]

but t ratings system is in one word UNFAIR...

Perhaps. But so is life. Get used to it cupcake.

[jiminski]

There is an important aspect to the old system that I feel is being overlooked. The word 'feedback' in itself should make a point. I am low rank. Rank does not matter to me. Enjoying the game and learning is much more important. Sure, feedback does not matter to someone that can play this game with their eyes closed. Positive feedback also included constructive comments.
The stars give me nothing to go on.
I do not know a lot of people on here. Some of the feedback I received gave me the ability to feel comfortable with pming a player and ask to play with them again.

The new system does not matter to a lot of the expert players here. It sure took away a good tool for those of us that will never achieve that level.

yeap I have been harping on about it for ages like a broken record!

I have already made a large group of friends on CC and can draw upon a large base of fine and interesting opponents, so it is no loss to me.
However, personalised comments were a vital ice-breaker and in many cases, the initial reason i got to converse with people on a deeper level.

[George3356]

I do kinda miss the feedback system, however the ratings work well to, with the new ideas posted here i think it would make the rating system better. 1 thing i think made the feedback a good idea was that it allowed any point to be made about the game, which also made it difficult to use bcz people were leaving realitory and non-game realted feedback . The ratings limit u 2 a few aspects of the gameplay, which does not always allow a player to express how the game played out. Its a tough decision.

[JoshyBoy]

but t ratings system is in one word UNFAIR...

Perhaps. But so is life. Get used to it cupcake.

I love you too honey bun...

[ctgottapee]

so would it be possible to summarize the various ideas thrown out for changes, tweak the ideas some through final feedback, and maybe offer the forum a vote on which items should be implemented and how

it appears no ratings system can love everyone the same. each of us are at different levels as far as it comes to using this site and how we play, so one great idea is another players curse. it should be reasonable to create a system that gives the majority of players what they need, probably along with some extra they don't need which suits other players besides themselves.

[THORNHEART]

there should also be a rating about peoples actauly game play interligence...with the current system nothing actually bad can be said about a player unless u want to give his rating all ones WHICH is abusing the system

[alster]

there should also be a rating about peoples actauly game play interligence...

I hope your ”actual game play intelligence” is better than your spelling. If not, I wouldn’t suggest this if I were you…

[celeryuk]

Firstly, thanks to those that run the site and the constructive approach they have to new ideas & improvements.
 
1. Same ratings - For me the new system is getting limited as everyone has the same ratings.
You can play an 8 player game and everyone is between 4.4 and 4.9.  kinda makes the whole thing pointless now.
 
2. Fair Play and Attitude are too similar for me.  Bad attitude is easy to spot but bad fair play - whats that?   breaking alliances isnt bad fair play, thats CC life.  its not possible to cheat (apart from multis) so this is a poor category. 
 
3. I suggest one ranking for "overall" and have the option of writing feedback if you want.  Sometimes you can have a nice game but its silent and not really worth writing about.  Certainly not all that rubbish we had before like "what a great player, a real pleasure, look forward to playing again".  when all you had was a 5 mins silent 2 player Doodle Earth game.
I miss being able to be glowing for nice people I meet and I also miss my letting-off-steam moans at rude players.
 
4. Auto Speed Score - Agree with the above - if possible, why not have an automated speed score. showing average playing time rating.  i.e. within 0-2 hours is very fast, 2-6 is fast etc.. (pro rata for speed)
someone in New Zealand is going to appear slow but is still within the time limit.  It just nice to know how long to expect to have to wait. and the ones that miss turns will gain a poor rating.

5. Why Exceptional? - Most people you play are "alright" or "average" - nothing exceptional. You can play a game with people and there is no chat, no arguments, no timeouts -nothing exceptional. Yet people will rate these people 5* Surely they should be 3* - average. Maybe have the system ask you for reasons why you have 1 or 5 star then at least you have justify it.
 
just my thoughts - see you out there!

[bayou]

there should also be a rating about peoples actauly game play interligence...

I hope your ”actual game play intelligence” is better than your spelling. If not, I wouldn’t suggest this if I were you…

That really added some very important information to the discussion. I applaud you sir.

[n00blet]

Is there a reason why this was taken off of the Control Panel "Announcements"?

[Tracita]

I do not know if I am in the minority, but I don't have the energy or time to cultivate a "community" of players that I regularly join games with; I am not part of a clan or grp and I don't really have prvte games. There are a couple of players I join w/based on past experiences, that is all. So ratings or feedback is important to me. All I want to know when deciding whether to join a game or "ignore" is if the player 1) deadbeats, 2) cheats or 3) is unpleasant (i.e. an asshole). the ratings don't really offer enough guidance.

Most of my games are silent. Assuming no one is cheating and no one is deadbeating, I give everyone a 5 rating. Others may rate everyone average b/c they didn't type "gg" or other pleasantries or maybe, took their turn after 12 hours as opposed to one hour after the last turn.

Reason why I oppose auto-speed ratings: there are 2 types of time-restricted games. As long as a player is playing w/in the time constraints, I don't think it is helpful to label a person as lacksadasical b/c he or she lives in another time zone or has other obligations outside of conquer club. The idea afterall, is that we could take turns w/our morning coffee or during lunch hour and not feel obligated to check in constantly.

Perhaps we should distill what exactly people want to know about other players w/regard to feedback and then determine what the guidelines are and how to best submit feedback and/or ratings.

Having said that, the feedback I found most unhelpful are game-specific comments regarding differences of opinion as to how an opponent should have played their turn.

my 2 cents....

[hulmey]

There is an important aspect to the old system that I feel is being overlooked. The word 'feedback' in itself should make a point. I am low rank. Rank does not matter to me. Enjoying the game and learning is much more important. Sure, feedback does not matter to someone that can play this game with their eyes closed. Positive feedback also included constructive comments.
The stars give me nothing to go on.
I do not know a lot of people on here. Some of the feedback I received gave me the ability to feel comfortable with pming a player and ask to play with them again.

The new system does not matter to a lot of the expert players here. It sure took away a good tool for those of us that will never achieve that level.

Probably, one of the best posts i have seen in a long time.

[bomberman760]

Sorry if this has already been covered - couldn't find it in browsing each page.

Has anyone considered making it so a player can be rated after each game by everyone, instead of just once by a particular player? If I wait to play a bunch of games with someone to get an idea of a fair overall rating, there's no chance of me remembering past games. And just because someone missed a lot of turns during my first game with him, doesn't mean a 2-star rating will be fair for other games we play.

In short, I think the one-rating-per-player rule needs to be lifted.

Aside from that, I think everything else about it is fine. I do agree with bayou's points, but if it had to change, it had to change.