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The Passion of Owenshooter

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Was owenshooter's ban unfair?

 
Total votes : 0

Re: The Passion of Owenshooter

Postby natty dread on Sat Oct 01, 2011 8:27 pm

Evil Semp wrote:
Serbia wrote:Way to keep trolling jbrettlip. You should learn to let things die.


I bet dollars to donuts that you are talking to the wrong person. Isn't that right owen?


It's funny how a team CC member, a multi hunter even, who is in a position of authority here in CC, accuses someone of rule-breaking and using other people's accounts WITHOUT EVIDENCE.

Funny... I would think such persons should be impartial and refrain from unfounded accusations precisely because of their authoritary position.
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Re: The Passion of Owenshooter

Postby Evil Semp on Sat Oct 01, 2011 9:09 pm

natty_dread wrote:
Evil Semp wrote:
Serbia wrote:Way to keep trolling jbrettlip. You should learn to let things die.


I bet dollars to donuts that you are talking to the wrong person. Isn't that right owen?


It's funny how a team CC member, a multi hunter even, who is in a position of authority here in CC, accuses someone of rule-breaking and using other people's accounts WITHOUT EVIDENCE.

Funny... I would think such persons should be impartial and refrain from unfounded accusations precisely because of their authoritary position.


Hey natty you missed the first one. That was from the 13th of Sep.

Evil Semp wrote:
jbrettlip wrote:can you all please remain on topic and take your off topic discussion elsewhere? funny, there is more trolling going on in the past 3 pages than the 6 posts owen made in 16 hours, yet i don't see the ban hammer coming down. why is that not shocking. the CC owen standard strikes again.


Is that you owen?


I am asking Owen if I am right. I haven't accused him. But if it is hopefully he will get the hint.
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Re: The Passion of Owenshooter

Postby natty dread on Mon Oct 03, 2011 11:11 pm

Evil Semp wrote:Hey natty you missed the first one. That was from the 13th of Sep.


I didn't miss anything.

Evil Semp wrote:I am asking Owen if I am right. I haven't accused him. But if it is hopefully he will get the hint.


No. In your first post maybe you were asking. In the second one, you were plain assuming that owen is using brett's account. Shall I quote you?

Evil Semp wrote:I bet dollars to donuts that you are talking to the wrong person. Isn't that right owen?


Is that suitable behaviour for a team CC member?
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Re: The Passion of Owenshooter

Postby Victor Sullivan on Mon Oct 03, 2011 11:14 pm

Natty, honey, I love ya, but I think you need to put this to rest.

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Re: The Passion of Owenshooter

Postby Evil Semp on Mon Oct 03, 2011 11:23 pm

natty_dread wrote:
Evil Semp wrote:Hey natty you missed the first one. That was from the 13th of Sep.


I didn't miss anything.

Evil Semp wrote:I am asking Owen if I am right. I haven't accused him. But if it is hopefully he will get the hint.


No. In your first post maybe you were asking. In the second one, you were plain assuming that owen is using brett's account. Shall I quote you?

Evil Semp wrote:I bet dollars to donuts that you are talking to the wrong person. Isn't that right owen?


Is that suitable behaviour for a team CC member?



I stating what I would bet and why. And I asked Owen.

I am allowed to post a express my opinions on these forums just as much as you are. the posting style makes me think it might be Owen making those posts. I would think that jbrettlip would be telling me I am wrong. I am still willing to make that be though.

Now natty try to think outside the box on this one. Maybe my posting could be considered a heads up to Owen and if it is him it might be time to stop.

If you have a problem with my opinions you can talk to KA or Andy.
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Re: The Passion of Owenshooter

Postby BigBallinStalin on Tue Oct 04, 2011 12:32 am

You could talk to me, natty_dread!

My secretaries will immediately file your post under [URGENT!], which is below [EXTREMELY IMPORTANT], [SRSLY SERIOUS], and [LEVIATHAN CRISIS] in that order.
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Re: The Passion of Owenshooter

Postby Serbia on Tue Oct 04, 2011 6:27 am

BBS always files my post under [LEVIATHAN CRISIS]. And that's what she said. ;)
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Re: The Passion of Owenshooter

Postby natty dread on Tue Oct 04, 2011 10:39 am

Evil Semp wrote:I stating what I would bet and why. And I asked Owen.


No, that's not good enough, sorry.

I could go around the forums saying "I bet you dollars to donuts Evil Semp is a multi" and no one would probably mind... however, if I was a team CC member who is a part of the C&A team, whose purpose is to prevent cheating and catch cheaters on the site? I bet a lot of people would take my word for it, and would be convinced that Evil Semp was indeed a multi.

You see, with a position of authority, you have to take responsibility for your actions. People put more weight to your words, so you need to consider what you say in public.

Evil Semp wrote:I am allowed to post a express my opinions on these forums just as much as you are. the posting style makes me think it might be Owen making those posts. I would think that jbrettlip would be telling me I am wrong. I am still willing to make that be though.


So you admit you have absolutely no evidence to back up your claim. You have a "hunch" based on "posting style", basically, you're guessing.

And don't hide behind "it's just my opinion". Owen posted his opinion and he got a 6 month ban.

Let's put it this way... how would you feel, if tonight you open the TV, and there's your local police chief in the TV saying "This guy named Evil Semp is obviously a child molester. We're not going to arrest him because we don't have enough evidence, but I'm pretty sure he is. Oh, here's his home address. " I bet you'd be pissed? Would you say it's ok for the police chief to give this "opinion" on TV, when a lot of people will assume he knows what he's talking about, being a police?

Evil Semp wrote:Now natty try to think outside the box on this one. Maybe my posting could be considered a heads up to Owen and if it is him it might be time to stop.


No. If that was your intention, you could have pm:d it to Brett. What you're doing is speculating it in public.

You're a multi hunter. You have access to lots of information about people, information that others don't get to see, and you have the authority to punish people for cheating. When you post your "opinion" that someone is breaking the rules, a lot of people will take your word for it - after all, you're a multi hunter, so you should know, right?

Evil Semp wrote:If you have a problem with my opinions you can talk to KA or Andy.


I'd rather talk to you. You're the one who posted what you posted, not KA or Andy.
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Re: The Passion of Owenshooter

Postby Metsfanmax on Tue Oct 04, 2011 11:22 am

natty_dread wrote:
Evil Semp wrote:I stating what I would bet and why. And I asked Owen.


No, that's not good enough, sorry.

I could go around the forums saying "I bet you dollars to donuts Evil Semp is a multi" and no one would probably mind... however, if I was a team CC member who is a part of the C&A team, whose purpose is to prevent cheating and catch cheaters on the site? I bet a lot of people would take my word for it, and would be convinced that Evil Semp was indeed a multi.


This argument falls apart upon close inspection. Obviously if ES could prove that there was this sort of account sharing going on (I'm sure he checked the IP logs or what-have-you) then the appropriate action would have been taken. The fact that he is speculating as such in a public forum indicates that his position as a multi hunter has not given him any extra information on the subject, but from his individual point of view he still guesses it's Owen posting. If anyone thinks about it for a second they'll realize that if ES were portraying this situation as definite fact, he'd be doing something about it instead of speculating in GD...
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Re: The Passion of Owenshooter

Postby Evil Semp on Tue Oct 04, 2011 11:36 am

natty_dread wrote:
Evil Semp wrote:I stating what I would bet and why. And I asked Owen.


No, that's not good enough, sorry.


I disagree. I think it it good enough.

natty_dread wrote:I could go around the forums saying "I bet you dollars to donuts Evil Semp is a multi" and no one would probably mind... however, if I was a team CC member who is a part of the C&A team, whose purpose is to prevent cheating and catch cheaters on the site? I bet a lot of people would take my word for it, and would be convinced that Evil Semp was indeed a multi.

You see, with a position of authority, you have to take responsibility for your actions. People put more weight to your words, so you need to consider what you say in public.


I did consider what I said.

Evil Semp wrote:I am allowed to post a express my opinions on these forums just as much as you are. the posting style makes me think it might be Owen making those posts. I would think that jbrettlip would be telling me I am wrong. I am still willing to make that be though.


natty_dread wrote:So you admit you have absolutely no evidence to back up your claim. You have a "hunch" based on "posting style", basically, you're guessing.


I never claimed to have evidence to back up what I said.

natty_dread wrote:And don't hide behind "it's just my opinion". Owen posted his opinion and he got a 6 month ban.


Not hiding behind anything. I didn't have anything to do with Owen getting banned so you are barking up the wrong tree.

natty_dread wrote:Let's put it this way... how would you feel, if tonight you open the TV, and there's your local police chief in the TV saying "This guy named Evil Semp is obviously a child molester. We're not going to arrest him because we don't have enough evidence, but I'm pretty sure he is. Oh, here's his home address. " I bet you'd be pissed? Would you say it's ok for the police chief to give this "opinion" on TV, when a lot of people will assume he knows what he's talking about, being a police?


Why don't you make a more realistic comparison?

Evil Semp wrote:Now natty try to think outside the box on this one. Maybe my posting could be considered a heads up to Owen and if it is him it might be time to stop.


comparisonNo. If that was your intention, you could have pm:d it to Brett. What you're doing is speculating it in public.[/quote]

Just like you could have PM'd your concerns to me.

comparisonYou're a multi hunter. You have access to lots of information about people, information that others don't get to see, and you have the authority to punish people for cheating. When you post your "opinion" that someone is breaking the rules, a lot of people will take your word for it - after all, you're a multi hunter, so you should know, right? [/quote]

When I made those post it was strictly based on what I thought. You can assume anything you want and question my motives all you want. But like you said about me being a multi hunter. There are people who will not believe me just because I am a multi hunter.

Evil Semp wrote:If you have a problem with my opinions you can talk to KA or Andy.


natty_dread wrote:I'd rather talk to you. You're the one who posted what you posted, not KA or Andy.


That is fine with me.
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Re: The Passion of Owenshooter

Postby Army of GOD on Tue Oct 04, 2011 6:22 pm

It's both funny and ironic that the majority of votes have been "no".

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Re: The Passion of Owenshooter

Postby Gillipig on Wed Oct 19, 2011 9:04 am

I never thought this thread would get so many answers. (this is my attempt to kill it.)
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Re: The Passion of Owenshooter

Postby natty dread on Wed Oct 19, 2011 9:33 am

Army of GOD wrote:It's both funny and ironic


That's not what "ironic" means AND YOU KNOW IT
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Re: The Passion of Owenshooter

Postby Crazyirishman on Wed Oct 19, 2011 11:54 am

Gillipig wrote:I never thought this thread would get so many answers. (this is my attempt to kill it.)


If you really want the thread to die, you need victor sullivan to post a lame joke.
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Re: The Passion of Owenshooter

Postby Gillipig on Wed Oct 19, 2011 12:26 pm

Crazyirishman wrote:
Gillipig wrote:I never thought this thread would get so many answers. (this is my attempt to kill it.)


If you really want the thread to die, you need victor sullivan to post a lame joke.

I'm actually quite a good thread killer too. But only when I'm not trying to be.
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Re: The Passion of Owenshooter

Postby Army of GOD on Wed Oct 19, 2011 11:34 pm

natty_dread wrote:
Army of GOD wrote:It's both funny and ironic


That's not what "ironic" means AND YOU KNOW IT


a (1) : incongruity between the actual result of a sequence of events and the normal or expected result (2) : an event or result marked by such incongruity


I expected yes to have more votes.

YOU LOSE, GOOD DAY SIR.

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Re: The Passion of Owenshooter

Postby natty dread on Thu Oct 20, 2011 2:26 am

Army of GOD wrote:a (1) : incongruity between the actual result of a sequence of events and the normal or expected result (2) : an event or result marked by such incongruity


That's not what Ironic means. That's a very shitty definition from an obviously shitty online dictionary.

That's like saying "hey, remember how I promised to feed your goldfish? Well, instead I took a shit in the bowl. Isn't that ironic?"
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Re: The Passion of Owenshooter

Postby whitestazn88 on Thu Oct 20, 2011 3:53 pm

natty_dread wrote:
Army of GOD wrote:a (1) : incongruity between the actual result of a sequence of events and the normal or expected result (2) : an event or result marked by such incongruity


That's not what Ironic means. That's a very shitty definition from an obviously shitty online dictionary.

That's like saying "hey, remember how I promised to feed your goldfish? Well, instead I took a shit in the bowl. Isn't that ironic?"


It really is kind of ironic though, because he did feed the fish, but just with shit rather than fish food (even though fish occasionally will eat shit),
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Re: The Passion of Owenshooter

Postby Army of GOD on Thu Oct 20, 2011 4:26 pm

natty_dread wrote:
Army of GOD wrote:a (1) : incongruity between the actual result of a sequence of events and the normal or expected result (2) : an event or result marked by such incongruity


That's not what Ironic means. That's a very shitty definition from an obviously shitty online dictionary.

That's like saying "hey, remember how I promised to feed your goldfish? Well, instead I took a shit in the bowl. Isn't that ironic?"


Yea, Merriam-Webster is shitty!
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Re: The Passion of Owenshooter

Postby Gillipig on Thu Oct 20, 2011 4:35 pm

whitestazn88 wrote:
natty_dread wrote:
Army of GOD wrote:a (1) : incongruity between the actual result of a sequence of events and the normal or expected result (2) : an event or result marked by such incongruity


That's not what Ironic means. That's a very shitty definition from an obviously shitty online dictionary.

That's like saying "hey, remember how I promised to feed your goldfish? Well, instead I took a shit in the bowl. Isn't that ironic?"


It really is kind of ironic though, because he did feed the fish, but just with shit rather than fish food (even though fish occasionally will eat shit),

:lol: Yes no one told him what to feed the fish with so he fed them his feces. Ironic indeed :mrgreen: . But I do agree with natty in this case, that's a pretty poor description of the word ironic.
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Re: The Passion of Owenshooter

Postby Crazyirishman on Thu Oct 20, 2011 10:16 pm

natty_dread wrote:
Army of GOD wrote:a (1) : incongruity between the actual result of a sequence of events and the normal or expected result (2) : an event or result marked by such incongruity


That's not what Ironic means. That's a very shitty definition from an obviously shitty online dictionary.

That's like saying "hey, remember how I promised to feed your goldfish? Well, instead I took a shit in the bowl. Isn't that ironic?"


Natty Dread: CC's king of terrible analogies.
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Re: The Passion of Owenshooter

Postby Army of GOD on Thu Oct 20, 2011 10:49 pm

Click image to enlarge.
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I don't know about you, but I was expecting more people to say Yes.

inb4 "BUT DASS A TURRIBLE DEFINITION OF IRONY"
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Re: The Passion of Owenshooter

Postby natty dread on Fri Oct 21, 2011 1:03 am

The best definition of irony I have seen is here:

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Irony

There are seven main situations where Irony belongs: Socratic, Verbal, Dramatic, Tragic, Situational, Cosmic, and Historical. If something does not fit in any of these, it is not irony.

Socratic

This type is different from the others. It's more of a debating tool than modern irony. Thus it rarely overlaps with the other types.

In a nutshell, this is the use of constant questioning in order to reveal the truth of any position. You know how kids like to ask "Why?" no matter the answer? This is the more sophisticated version. You keep feigning ignorance of the topic, in order to force the other person to explain it further. The irony lies in the fact that you are treating the other person as one possessing coveted knowledge and/or wisdom far above your "lowly" station, the whole point in doing so is to expose the fact that they are, in fact, not. Jon Stewart favors this Method.

Closely related to Armor-Piercing Question.

Verbal

The use of words expressing something other than their literal intention. Now that. Is. Irony.
—Bender defining verbal irony (though not, as he believes, irony as a whole; isn't that ironic?)

Verbal irony is part of the modern irony types, but it differs from the others in that the irony is intentional. Basically, you state something in a manner that has literal connotation, but expresses something different in the context of the situation. This may be done for any number of reasons, but typically the intent is either humor or emphasis.

Again, you have to intentionally create this difference in order for it to be verbal irony. If you deny that you're upset, but in an angry tone, that's just plain denial, not irony. You mean to try to convince people you were calm, but your tone betrays you. To be verbal irony you have to deny it in a calm tone, but deliberately make it clear you are seething on the inside and want the other person to know it. Note however that just because this example wouldn't be verbal irony, this doesn't mean it couldn't be ironic; the irony in this case would be situational, since it's not intended by the speaker.

The distinction between irony and sarcasm is that sarcasm is meant to mock things. The two frequently overlap, but not all verbal irony is sarcastic and not all sarcasm is ironic. Using the case above, denying your anger in a deliberately angry tone would be sarcasm, but would not be verbal irony because the angry tone would imply your intention.

Note however that, though a sarcastic tone does betray the ironic intent of the words used, this does not mean that irony is no longer present. Indeed, it is only tone and context that distinguish verbal irony from outright lying. For example, take the film About a Boy. The main character's father wrote a hit song, and every time he mentions the song, people start singing it. When the eponymous boy and his mother do the same, they apologize, seeing the look on his face. When they mention he probably got that a lot, he politely says, "No, you're the first." If he had said it in a sarcastic (that is, openly derisive) tone, that would be sarcasm. If he had said it in a normal tone, and added something like, "In fact, I'd like people to do it all the time," there would be a hint of mocking, also making it sarcasm. But since he said it the way he did, it's just an example of verbal irony.

One non-sarcastic form of verbal irony is the "ironic simile". A common example would be the expression "clear as mud"; the message conveyed is the polar opposite of the adjective used, and this is made clear by the fact that the noun used for comparison is obviously not something possessing that quality.

Now what about lying? Though it may at first seem as though they may overlap, this is not really the case. Verbal irony has the intention of getting the meaning across. As in the example from About a Boy, he did mean that they were not the first, but that he was being nice about it. In the case of most lies, the intention is not to give that hint; it's just outright deception.

Dramatic

This is basically letting the audience in on something of which one or more characters is unaware. Thus any actions or words from the character about this thing are ironic to the audience, because we know better.

Take the Disney version of Sleeping Beauty. Prince Phillip meets Briar Rose, but neither of them knows that other is royalty (and Briar Rose doesn't even know she is, herself). The Prince's father is horrified to learn that Phillip wants to marry a commoner, and it seems as though they can't be together, but we know who Briar Rose really is, so we know that they can.

So this literally applies any time the audience is in on something, and watching characters react without knowing what the audience knows. Often a key part of a screwball comedy, but it can just as easily be played for drama or tragedy, such as in Shakespeare's Othello, where the audience knows that Iago is lying long before the characters do.

Another way to create opportunities for Dramatic Irony in a story is to alter the chronology of its telling, by making use of Flashbacks or doing the whole tale Back to Front. This style allows characters to make promises that the audience already knows were ultimately broken.

Situational

In truth, a more fitting term would be "Expectational Irony", since that is what it covers. Situational Irony is when the outcome of some situation or action is the exact opposite of the intended outcome.

Take the trope Failsafe Failure, for example. The expectation is for safety features to ensure that something is, well, safe, and then the safety feature itself turns out to be dangerous.

This, in a nutshell, is what people mean, or think they mean, when they say "that's so ironic."

Tragic

This is a specific type of dramatic irony, usually found in a Tragedy, Film Noir, or in general a story with a Downer Ending. The character's words or even actions are not ironic to them (or perhaps anyone in the story), but the audience is fully aware that their actions will bring about a tragic or deadly result, all while they ostensibly fight against such a result.

A tragedy can have dramatic irony in it without being tragic irony; tragic irony depends on the audience knowing how the story ends ahead of time. This might be intentionally produced by a Framing Device, such as making the whole piece a Flashback so the audience sees the end first ("Two households, both alike in dignity..."), or it might be unintentional because the end of the movie becomes very well known, or somewhere in between those two, or it could simply be a story whose ending the viewer is expected to already know about from everyday life (such as Pearl Harbor, Titanic or The Passion of the Christ).

For example: Charles wants to save his father from being jailed for "helping" commit a murder he was framed for. In the process of clearing his father's name, Charles discovers that his father was innocent of that crime, but guilty of murdering Charles' mother, thus beginning the entire torturous process of trials, jail time, and eventual execution, as well as Charles learning something unforgivable about his father.

This would be Tragic Irony if the audience knew from the start that the father had murdered his wife (say, if it were shown early in the film) and could foresee that investigating the father would lead to that discovery. If the audience discovered that fact at the same time as Charles, then it becomes situational irony (at least, the first time you watch the film) because the viewers and Charles suddenly realize that everyone would have been better off if he had never started investigating.

Cosmic

Basically, the universe is screwing with you. The difference between this and situational irony is a matter of degree, but if it causes a mess of some sort, it's usually this.

Take A Simple Plan. It's situational in that the expectation is of course simplicity, but the way things tend to just snowball, often through no fault of the initiator, is this version.

The fact that most Self Fulfilling Prophecies are caused by the very act of trying to prevent them. Historical

This is any of the above (save for Socratic), through hindsight. We know it happened, and unless we don't get the cultural causes, we know why it was ironic.

Take the Oracle at Delphi's prophecy to Croesus that if the king went to war, he would "destroy a great empire." Since the empire that was destroyed was his own, it's a case of situational irony for Croesus (who chose to attack based on this supposed encouragement; his opponent was Persia, also a great empire at the time), verbal irony from the Oracle (who is entirely aware that Croesus will misinterpret her), tragic irony for the audience (who already know how this is going to go), and possibly cosmic irony (for those who believe in hubris, like many Ancient Greeks did), but since it's in the history books, it's also historical irony.

For some more lighthearted examples of historical irony, see the trope This Is Going To Be Huge.

Metallurgical

"Sort of like gold-y and bronze-y, but made of iron."

Actually, the use of irony as a metallurgical term is absolutely correct, and predates the more generally accepted use of irony by at least 100 years. "Irony" - in the sense of this particular trope - is pronounced "ahy-ruh-nee". "Irony" - as a term having to do with the metal iron - is pronounced "ahy-er-nee". (Hurray for the dictionary!)
I'm sure we can all agree that a ferrous wheel is ironic.
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Re: The Passion of Owenshooter

Postby BigBallinStalin on Fri Oct 21, 2011 9:25 am

I voted yes for the Oatmeal comic, and No for natty's 8000-word definition.
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Re: The Passion of Owenshooter

Postby whitestazn88 on Fri Oct 21, 2011 5:12 pm

And natty has yet to respond to my rebuttal of the pooping in a fishbowl isn't ironic argument.
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