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Is racism taken seriously enough on CC?

 
Total votes : 0

Re: Bigotry on CC [Page 20 Summary]

Postby AndyDufresne on Sat May 23, 2009 12:14 pm

GENERAL STONEHAM wrote:Meanwhile, back on track. "Andy" has done a wonderful job of keeping this thread "civil," considering the characters who post here. Other than that, we should keep this thread going, until most of us have come to an agreement with "Andy" of how to reduce the instances of bigotry, with-out a heavy-handed approach.

Thanks General Stoneham, but I surely can't take all the credit. I'm merely trying to steer the discussion at the moment, and most of you providing the points of interest to discuss.

It's saturday and pleasant out, and I've a number of things like banana picking to do, but I'll try to check back in this evening an do an Era Update. Remember, keep working towards an end. :)


--Andy
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Re: Bigotry on CC

Postby Artimis on Sat May 23, 2009 1:01 pm

thelastpatriot wrote:LOL, Ok lets get back to reality. First your ideas on racism is as deep as bath water. I see everyone jumping on the "N" word band wagon trying to be racially politically correct. Or the defender of the gay movements. But one comment got no response at all. I'm not sure if the comment was a test or how this person really feels but it was never given a second glance. Why. Because it was made about white, christian men. Here is the comment just in case you over looked it:



Re: Bigotry on CC

Postby mpjh Ā» Fri May 22, 2009 11:19 am
I find that white, male, fundamentalist christians miss more turns than others.

This world has a very narrow minded view on racism and discrimination. Everyone wants to change the world you all want to make it better. Racism and discrimination has to be addressed from every angle not just the ones we choose.


I ignored it because I thought it was trolling, or baiting at the very least, so lets try not to give him what he wants;
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Re: Bigotry on CC [Page 20 Summary]

Postby xelabale on Sat May 23, 2009 1:55 pm

Rocketry wrote:Why is this thread so popular? Bigotry is just a part of the internet. People are not respectful to unknown strangers. Deal with it.

Rocket.

We are trying to deal with it.
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Re: Bigotry on CC [Page 20 Summary]

Postby azezzo on Sat May 23, 2009 3:00 pm

azezzo wrote:if c.c. is going to be banning words, which i am against, can i get a clarification on the following words. here in chicago the following words all have the same meaning.

1) monday
2) democrat
3) canadian


so since i havent heard otherwise, the use of these 3 words is acceptable?

I'm guessing lackattack wont mind me calling someone a " monday" or a "democrat" but given my tone he may find my calling someone a "canadian" offensive.

Damn its so hard being politically correct. thats why i dont even try. Archie Bunker will live forever.
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Re: Bigotry on CC [Page 20 Summary]

Postby Woodruff on Sat May 23, 2009 3:09 pm

GENERAL STONEHAM wrote:
Woodruff wrote:
ronc8649 wrote:
Woodruff wrote: an intelligent and strong decision is less likely to happen.


what do i have to do to help?


You're against an intelligent and strong decision?


Look out Woodruff, you're bordering on FLAMING.


How is that bordering on flaming? I was geniunely asking for clarification on what Ron meant, because that seemed to be what he was getting at.
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Re: Bigotry on CC

Postby Woodruff on Sat May 23, 2009 3:11 pm

thelastpatriot wrote:LOL, Ok lets get back to reality. First your ideas on racism is as deep as bath water. I see everyone jumping on the "N" word band wagon trying to be racially politically correct. Or the defender of the gay movements. But one comment got no response at all. I'm not sure if the comment was a test or how this person really feels but it was never given a second glance. Why. Because it was made about white, christian men. Here is the comment just in case you over looked it:

Re: Bigotry on CC

Postby mpjh Ā» Fri May 22, 2009 11:19 am
I find that white, male, fundamentalist christians miss more turns than others.

This world has a very narrow minded view on racism and discrimination. Everyone wants to change the world you all want to make it better. Racism and discrimination has to be addressed from every angle not just the ones we choose.


I'm pretty sure the reason that comment was ignored was because it was quite painfully clear to be not any sort of a serious racial remark at all, not that it had anything to do with "white, male fundamental Christians". That's certainly why I ignored it. Common sense must prevail.
Last edited by Woodruff on Sat May 23, 2009 3:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Bigotry on CC [Page 20 Summary]

Postby Woodruff on Sat May 23, 2009 3:12 pm

ronc8649 wrote:
Rocketry wrote:Why is this thread so popular? Bigotry is just a part of the internet. People are not respectful to unknown strangers. Deal with it.

Rocket.


jesus h christ we have a winner! give the man his award!
and no woodruff, what i meant earlier was that i am for nothing being done.
you ever see brewsters millions? vote for none of the above people.


Ah, I gotcha...thanks for the clarification.
...I prefer a man who will burn the flag and then wrap himself in the Constitution to a man who will burn the Constitution and then wrap himself in the flag.
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Re: Bigotry on CC [Page 20 Summary]

Postby GENERAL STONEHAM on Sat May 23, 2009 3:19 pm

by azezzo Ā» Sat May 23, 2009 8:00 pm
I'm guessing lackattack wont mind me calling someone a " monday" or a "democrat" but given my tone he may find my calling someone a "canadian" offensive.









Today Democrat ain't a dirty word, as say....Republican.
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Re: Bigotry on CC [Page 20 Summary]

Postby azezzo on Sat May 23, 2009 3:38 pm

GENERAL STONEHAM wrote:by azezzo Ā» Sat May 23, 2009 8:00 pm
I'm guessing lackattack wont mind me calling someone a " monday" or a "democrat" but given my tone he may find my calling someone a "canadian" offensive.









Today Democrat ain't a dirty word, as say....Republican.



general stoneham, i thought you were from chgo, are you being cute, or do you not know the meaning of those 3 words?
ask a chgo police officer and he will be happy to inform you.
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Re: Bigotry on CC [Page 20 Summary]

Postby pimpdave on Sat May 23, 2009 4:00 pm

jay_a2j wrote:hey if any1 would like me to make them a signature or like an avator just let me no, my sig below i did, and i also did "panther 88" so i can do something like that for u if ud like...
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Re: Bigotry on CC [Page 20 Summary]

Postby azezzo on Sat May 23, 2009 4:41 pm

qoute eddie murphy, " italians act more like niggers than we do"

just what is that supposed to mean, is that some kind of back handed compliment?
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Re: Bigotry on CC [Page 20 Summary]

Postby Woodruff on Sat May 23, 2009 4:43 pm

azezzo wrote:qoute eddie murphy, " italians act more like niggers than we do"

just what is that supposed to mean, is that some kind of back handed compliment?


I lived in Italy for 3 months and I have no idea at all what he means.
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Re: Bigotry on CC [Page 20 Summary]

Postby GENERAL STONEHAM on Sat May 23, 2009 5:03 pm

azezzo wrote:
GENERAL STONEHAM wrote:by azezzo Ā» Sat May 23, 2009 8:00 pm
I'm guessing lackattack wont mind me calling someone a " monday" or a "democrat" but given my tone he may find my calling someone a "canadian" offensive.









Today Democrat ain't a dirty word, as say....Republican.



general stoneham, i thought you were from chgo, are you being cute, or do you not know the meaning of those 3 words?
ask a chgo police officer and he will be happy to inform you.







Chicago police officers are predominately DEMOCRATIC. BUT, please, educate me about the cop's view, as I have had numerous dealings with cops.
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Re: Bigotry on CC [Page 20 Summary]

Postby bjc23 on Sat May 23, 2009 5:17 pm

Well jeez, ronc8649, congratulations (but if you still have the desire to help out the site that you love, I won't protest your payment for premium membership for me)...

I apologize for my long post a few pages ago. I just had a lot to say. Many people have been giving great ideas, but it's time to work toward proper discipline. AndyDufresne seems to be asking primarily for a middle ground, for the punishment and repercussions of using bigoted attacks on people.

MY IDEA: The first offense should receive a warning, the same, apparently, as all offenses at the moment. But this warning should include something along the lines of: "Unlike other offenses such as (place "no-no's" here), bigotry infractions have stiffer penalties for future offenses. If you decide to break our rules set for bigotry misbehavior again, your next castigation will be an extended ban, and if you choose to affront the rules we have set up yet again, you will be permanently banned" or something along those lines.

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Re: Bigotry on CC [Page 20 Summary]

Postby owenshooter on Sat May 23, 2009 5:34 pm

azezzo wrote:qoute eddie murphy, " italians act more like _____ than we do"

just what is that supposed to mean, is that some kind of back handed compliment?

it is very obvious and quite apparent that you have not even read the summary on page 20, much less the bulk of the thread. if you have nothing more constructive to say other than some juvenile means of posting the "N" word, i suggest you stay out of the thread. the admins, namely andy, have gone out if their/his way to have an open and constructive dialogue about the bigotry guidelines, and you are adding nothing, not even comic relief. bad enough we had to wade through early comments by admins/mods/bigoted members that were very short sighted on this (one of them due to my involvement in the discussion). so why should we have to deal with your comments that add nothing to the dialogue? everyone seems to have come around on this. we all may not agree, but we have all kept the dialogue above board and for the most part been respectful of each other. please do the same.-0
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Re: Bigotry on CC

Postby thelastpatriot on Sat May 23, 2009 6:10 pm

Woodruff wrote:
thelastpatriot wrote:LOL, Ok lets get back to reality. First your ideas on racism is as deep as bath water. I see everyone jumping on the "N" word band wagon trying to be racially politically correct. Or the defender of the gay movements. But one comment got no response at all. I'm not sure if the comment was a test or how this person really feels but it was never given a second glance. Why. Because it was made about white, christian men. Here is the comment just in case you over looked it:

Re: Bigotry on CC

Postby mpjh Ā» Fri May 22, 2009 11:19 am
I find that white, male, fundamentalist christians miss more turns than others.

This world has a very narrow minded view on racism and discrimination. Everyone wants to change the world you all want to make it better. Racism and discrimination has to be addressed from every angle not just the ones we choose.


I'm pretty sure the reason that comment was ignored was because it was quite painfully clear to be not any sort of a serious racial remark at all, not that it had anything to do with "white, male fundamental Christians". That's certainly why I ignored it. Common sense must prevail.


I agree with both of you that this was probably an attempt to bait someone. When you start making rules and guidlines on what can and can not be said then everything that could be construde to offend anyone would have to be looked at. To me it just seems like you are waisting your time. People are gonna say what they want and unfortunately if they do get kicked off they would probably turn around and make a new account until they are caught.
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Re: Bigotry on CC [Page 20 Summary]

Postby mpjh on Sat May 23, 2009 7:18 pm

You guys need a serious adjustment on you irony meters. You can sit here an defend to the death the right to use the N word or imply its use, but placing a fairly innocuous negative implication for white, christian, fundamentalists is provocative to you. Pathetic.
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Re: Bigotry on CC [Page 20 Summary]

Postby azezzo on Sat May 23, 2009 7:27 pm

owenshooter wrote:
azezzo wrote:qoute eddie murphy, " italians act more like _____ than we do"

just what is that supposed to mean, is that some kind of back handed compliment?

it is very obvious and quite apparent that you have not even read the summary on page 20, much less the bulk of the thread. if you have nothing more constructive to say other than some juvenile means of posting the "N" word, i suggest you stay out of the thread. the admins, namely andy, have gone out if their/his way to have an open and constructive dialogue about the bigotry guidelines, and you are adding nothing, not even comic relief. bad enough we had to wade through early comments by admins/mods/bigoted members that were very short sighted on this (one of them due to my involvement in the discussion). so why should we have to deal with your comments that add nothing to the dialogue? everyone seems to have come around on this. we all may not agree, but we have all kept the dialogue above board and for the most part been respectful of each other. please do the same.-0


owenshooter, you are correct i have not and do not intend to read the summary, or wade thru all of this nonsense.
I do not believe that you and I have had any problems with one another in the past, not that we have had much direct contact, but from your numerous posts you seem to be well educated, but for whatever reason this is a personal sticking point for you, the race issue. I am not politically correct, and dont understand why it is so important to be. I dont understand how we as a country became so afraid to hurt someones feelings, in my opinion this has led to the pussification of our younger generation who have trouble leaving the comfort of mommys tit.
I grew up on the south side of chicago, where everyone had nicknames, usually nothing complimentary. We had polocks, degos, micks, beeners, spicks, greasy bohunks, lugans, kikes,and even niggers. In my neighborhood these names meant nothing other than where you came from, what meant something was what kind of a person you were, did you stand up for yourself, and your family, or not. Today a kid gets a bloody nose and the police get involved because mommys afraid it might escalate and someone might get shot over some small b.s. Used to be guys fought with their own 2 fists, and when it was over, it was over. Society is deteriorating, just wait till todays kids have kids, there wont be enough metal detectors to go around, the teachers are already afraid of the out of control kids, there is no discipline, and God forbid you hurt someones feelings, you might get shot.

pimpdave, who from what i can tell from his avatar and his claiming to be out "pimpin" from his profile a black man, put that link out there for eddie murphy on utube. about italians being niggers, but thats ok i guess.

I do not want to get into a pissing match over this, and cant understand why this is an issue, c.c.'s stance has always been foe the bastard. good enough in my opinion.

owenshooter, if you still have a problem with me feel free to send me a pm and we can discuss this further.

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Re: Bigotry on CC [Page 20 Summary]

Postby ronsizzle on Sat May 23, 2009 7:35 pm

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nJBrehCAyxE

i think this is absolutely hilarious. do black people get offended by this. and when i say black people. i am excluding owenshooter. everything offends him. so i am not even worried about his feelings anymore.

the little boy cried wolf one too many times for me guys.
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Re: Bigotry on CC [Page 20 Summary]

Postby pimpdave on Sat May 23, 2009 7:48 pm

owenshooter wrote: bad enough we had to wade through early comments by admins/mods/bigoted members that were very short sighted on this (one of them due to my involvement in the discussion). so why should we have to deal with your comments that add nothing to the dialogue? everyone seems to have come around on this. we all may not agree, but we have all kept the dialogue above board and for the most part been respectful of each other. please do the same.-0


What you talkin bout, Willis?

What bigoted member are you talking about?
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Re: Bigotry on CC [Page 20 Summary]

Postby ronsizzle on Sat May 23, 2009 7:50 pm

the reason for that last post was to show you guys that the word nigger isnt always bad!

just like when richard pryor said "cops dont kill cars, they kill niggars".

or is that ok because these samples are from black people, and if a white person said them, then all black people would revolt, and start rioting?

come on guys. racism isnt going crazy in here. and the only reason it keeps getting brought up is because 1 person thinks he was "screwed" in the way that mods dealt with his situation.

am i the only one that thinks this way? i guess not, look at the poll.
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Re: Bigotry on CC [Page 20 Summary]

Postby jiminski on Sat May 23, 2009 7:55 pm

ok,

well as i see it...

What we need is the transformation of breaking bigotry 'guidelines' into breaking rules on bigotry.

This means that instead of it being pretty much unsanctionable it falls under the remit of the Mods.

Now that needs to be very carefully handled as it could be a tool for mods to use to get rid of people who are a pain in their arse, rather than them truly warranting heavy action.
The mods are good but they are only human; with the ability to retaliate, become exasperated and take things personally. Sure they are of a type of character less likely to but they are not exempt from vindictive acts (We should remember the mod ACIceman deleting Spamallot as a good example of what can happen.)

So increased severity of punishment under the following circumstance:

- Bigotry of unquestionable intent* i.e. a target and a framework of intended hurt. That should protect me, for example, if i am merely using a phrase to lambaste the term itself.
- Large weighting of referral toward the intended target of bigotry - i.e. lenience or special consideration should be shown if the recipient of the abuse is not offended and took it as a joke.** This means 3rd parties can report but that they are secondary to those involved directly. Those involved should be quizzed as to intent and offence taken. Of course there will be cases with no direct target and in that case it is a straight judgement for the mods.
- Bigotry of the most excessive of forms. - this is common sense, i do not believe we need a list of words as they will be ever-changing bar a few timeless terms. If we focus upon specific words rather than their tone and intent we actually limit this to superficiality.
- Grey areas need a more careful assessment and perhaps repetition to determine a pattern of abuse. For bigotry to be harshly punished it should be heinous and obvious. Thereby assuaging the humourists who fly close to the sun. Again that does not mean the smart bigots .. (not too many around) can dance around the rules to inflict hurt, it just means they get the benefit of the doubt until it is obvious as to their intent.
- Perhaps the introduction of a members court of appeal: This could even be made up of 12 random 'jurors', drafted in to hear those who feel they were unfairly treated and banned. The court would be made up of normal members, not mods who may appear to have a vested interest. (though controversial i think it would get all people on-board and actually protect the position of individual members and mods alike)


anyway, there is more stuff but i need to bugger off now.



*Azezzo's seemingly unnecessary use of 'nigger' above, may also be a good example of manipulating the system that we should consider. If he can explain the point of the use then maybe it is useful to the discussion, perhaps it was intended to be an example of irony which would test the absolute nature of bigotry? That in itself can be another useful example of context but at present i don't really see that being at its core.
Edit: Az explained above as i was writing this

**it will be bloody obvious if two mates are taking the piss out of the system rather than out of themselves.
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Re: Bigotry on CC [Page 20 Summary]

Postby owenshooter on Sat May 23, 2009 7:56 pm

ronc8649 wrote:and the only reason it keeps getting brought up is because 1 person thinks he was "screwed" in the way that mods dealt with his situation.

ron, what in the hell are you talking about? i didn't start this thread, and this thread isn't solely about racism, it is about bigotry. obviously you have not read the thread, as there are many examples by many members of various types of bigotry they have dealt with here on CC. your continual posting of the N word shows you have truly not learned your lesson, and you are simply not worth the effort anymore. you have proven yourself to be exactly what you declare yourself not to be. good job. and please stop bringing me up and trolling this thread in an effort to bait me into a flame war. this thread is not about me, it is about bigotry on CC, and from the posts and andy's input, it is obvious it is a far larger problem than you are willing to recognize. afterall, you still seem to be part of the problem.-0
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Re: Bigotry on CC [Page 20 Summary]

Postby thelastpatriot on Sat May 23, 2009 8:00 pm

mpjh wrote:You guys need a serious adjustment on you irony meters. You can sit here an defend to the death the right to use the N word or imply its use, but placing a fairly innocuous negative implication for white, christian, fundamentalists is provocative to you. Pathetic.


Last post for me. First off no one is defending the use of any racism. You writing a statement that can be construed as a racial remark and then laying in wait for someone to take the bait is not only pathetic but asinine. This has gotten to stupid
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Re: Bigotry on CC [Page 20 Summary]

Postby mpjh on Sat May 23, 2009 8:17 pm

Every time one of you neanderthals uses the N word or its derivative, you are doing exactly the same thing. Sure can dish it out, but cannot take it, can you?
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