PERMABANS (though you did not know it!)

[mpjh]

Yes, if you can't handle the simple point I made -- well ignore it --- that certainly is your prerogative.

[a.sub]

My, my, this is really too much for you to handle.

a.sub, clearly mpjh is just trying to get the thread locked. This thread is too important to allow that to happen. Just ignore him. It's what he deserves.

your right woodruff
i shouldnt waste my time trying filling a well with water
i would put him on foe if it werent for two things

• i dont foe ppl
• he's a damn good society teacher

[mpjh]

Thank you.

[ronsizzle]

he has no logic behind the sentence in which he wrote. further explanations would prove that.

i like the bail out in which you left this. there is truly no meaning that could make up for your arrogance here.

you failed.

sorry.

[mpjh]

Sorry you can't see the simple point, but, with you, that is expected.

[ronsizzle]

Sorry you can't see the simple point, but, with you, that is expected.

i see a simple minded person not willing to share their "great" opinion. neither can anyone else. anyone. seriously. what you said made no sense. sorry.

failure.

[bjc23]

Sorry you can't see the simple point, but, with you, that is expected.

i see a simple minded person not willing to share their "great" opinion. neither can anyone else. anyone. seriously. what you said made no sense. sorry.

failure.

He's doing that purposefully. Just ignore him! You're giving him the very reaction he is looking for.

[mpjh]

Well I would rather you got the point, but I think you prove it with your reaction -- so that is just as good.

[Artimis]

First and foremost with regards to the user MPJH;
PLEASE DON'T FEED THE TROLL!





Instead I want to direct attention to this fine post by Jim:
Re: Bigotry on CC [Page 20 Summary] <==== (4th post from the bottom on page 25)

show: Contents of Jims post

I agree 100% with both the assessment of the current situation and the suggestions made in this post. Reaching a compromise will be difficult to say the least because of how highly polarised this issue is, in fact it may not be possible to reach a compromise that is satisfactory to all. I still think the guidelines do a good enough job as they stand, but I'm willing to accept some adjustments if it will benefit the community overall.

[xelabale]

The length of this thread and speed it has grown suggests that something does need to be done. I agree with jiminski's points. Clarity and enforcement of rules are required. As it stands we have a zero-tolerance, erratically enforced policy which leads to problems. There are several good practical ideas in this thread. Maybe it's time to take stock and assess what we've got so far. Damn this good weather, get back here this second Andy!

[AndyDufresne]

I'll do an Era review this evening if I can find time in between nice weather, banana picking, and such. Until then, keep discussion focused on Middle Grounds Proposed and work towards an end.


--Andy

[GENERAL STONEHAM]

Andy, I think the length of this thread, with it's many questions, answers, remarks, trolling and other tid bits, has reached the end.

Rehashing all the posts is adding a little contentious behavior with some of us.

BUT, here goes. Let's not go overboard with "restrictions" of free expression. If, someone crosses the line of good taste, I'm sure many of us will report any REAL RACISM to the Moderators.

Besides, just the phrase FLAME WARS, will bring a lightning strike from the Moderators here at C.C. Land.

So, I recommend that we keep the rules as is. Most of the posters here, either want capital punishment issued out immediately or a "live let live" policy.

This thread has though, brought up many sides to the argument of what constitutes bigotry and/or racism. Andy, you have done a wonderful job of trying to keep this thread on track for so long, which in my opinion is nearly impossible with the characters involved with this discussion....and yes, that includes yours truly, ME.

Well, I gotta go and take care of my garden. What a beautiful day it is today in Chicagoland!

[AndyDufresne]

I think I am in agreement with General Stoneham that this topic may have finally reached it's limit/end/middleground. Who would've thought I would actually be agreeing with General Stoneham?

First off, before I do an Era update---and go into Final Analysis, I'd just like to say I myself have learned a few things from this topic. If I may, I'd like to share them with all those involved:

• Everyone is human. Sometimes I forget that---when you only see people posting as their username and avatar. Sometimes forgetting that everyone is human clouds one's mind when dealing with certain individuals that just seem to go against your grain. But once you remember that everyone is human, and there is a real person behind that avatar and username, you can free yourself from getting stuck up in dehumanizing people. And sometimes we forget what this site is all about---games. That's the reason I invited so many contributors to this topic to a few games. It's a universal language and identify that we all speak and can enjoy.
  
  
• I've also learned a good method for guiding a topic I think. We've come up with some great issues and points---when I firsted started this, I really had no idea how this topic was going to end, and how it was going to be conducted. It was really a complete experiment and mixture of a number of techniques I've employed over my years as a moderator at Conquer Club. So if this seems to have worked well, perhaps it will come up again!
  
  
• Lastly, similar to my first post, I've learned you all aren't a crazy bunch of bananas! I had my doubts for quite some time, but you've all proven me wrong. Mostly.

In the end, I hope it's clear how much I, and Team CC, really do care about Conquer Club.


--Andy

[AndyDufresne]

And as always, please take note of the Page 20 Summary of the earlier Eras.

Okay, so Era Four Review

Noteworthy posts:

show: xelable post

show: Woodruff post

show: General Stoneham and Woodruff posts

show: bjc23 post

show: jiminski post

Era Four, Issues Summation:

• There is a difference between "being vulgar in general" and being "vulgar towards someone" (I.E. Abusive towards someone). The latter is the one we are focusing on (General Stoneham and Woodruff).
• There are gray areas to take into account.

Era Four, Middle Grounds Proposed:

• For some gray areas, give the benefit of the doubt, revert to normal guidelines (page 21, 22, and Woodruff's post above).
• Warning first, with mention that Bigotry is a no-no that has stricter and stiffer penalties for future offenses. Similar to the earlier "Warning, Increased Vacation, Permanent Vacation" Middle Ground proposed (bjc23 post above).

==========================================================

Final Summation and Proposed Middle Grounds:

• Due to the possiblity of some gray areas, as pointed out throughout this topic, use the following altered Guidelines: Warning, Increased Vacation, Permanent Vacation. This allows for misunderstandings and context to be understood, and to be handled as they should be.
• For clear cut examples of Bigotry, use the altered proposed Guidelines: Small Vacation, Increased Vacation, Permanent Vacation. This allows for stricter and stiffer punishment to those who know what they are doing, and gets the point across the Bigotry will not be tolerated.

For Tools:

• Additionally, look into the possibility of "Report a Game" links. This of course is something on Lack's end, so I can't promise anything.
• There seemed to be no consensus about increased use of the forum's censor feature. So I propose that we perhaps institue the above altered guidelines, and go from there. If further forum censoring is needed, we can look at that at a later date (hopefully in a shorter topic ).

--Andy

[Woodruff]

Final Summation and Proposed Middle Grounds:

* Due to the possiblity of some gray areas, as pointed out throughout this topic, use the following altered Guidelines: Warning, Increased Vacation, Permanent Vacation. This allows for misunderstandings and context to be understood, and to be handled as they should be.

* For clear cut examples of Bigotry, use the altered proposed Guidelines: Small Vacation, Increased Vacation, Permanent Vacation. This allows for stricter and stiffer punishment to those who know what they are doing, and gets the point across the Bigotry will not be tolerated.


For Tools:

* Additionally, look into the possibility of "Report a Game" links. This of course is something on Lack's end, so I can't promise anything.

Well done, Andy. This looks pretty reasonable to me.

[clapper011]

[InsomniaRed]

I agree with clapper, though I think a simple will suffice without hurting my eyes too much

I think Andy said it all, and I think TeamCC will do their jobs just fine in handling with this, so the community can sleep soundly now!!

[the.killing.44]

Final Summation and Proposed Middle Grounds:

* Due to the possiblity of some gray areas, as pointed out throughout this topic, use the following altered Guidelines: Warning, Increased Vacation, Permanent Vacation. This allows for misunderstandings and context to be understood, and to be handled as they should be.

* For clear cut examples of Bigotry, use the altered proposed Guidelines: Small Vacation, Increased Vacation, Permanent Vacation. This allows for stricter and stiffer punishment to those who know what they are doing, and gets the point across the Bigotry will not be tolerated.


For Tools:

* Additionally, look into the possibility of "Report a Game" links. This of course is something on Lack's end, so I can't promise anything.

Well done, Andy. This looks pretty reasonable to me.

[Scott-Land]

ron, what in the hell are you talking about? i didn't start this thread, and this thread isn't solely about racism, it is about bigotry. obviously you have not read the thread, as there are many examples by many members of various types of bigotry they have dealt with here on CC. your continual posting of the N word shows you have truly not learned your lesson, and you are simply not worth the effort anymore. you have proven yourself to be exactly what you declare yourself not to be. good job. and please stop bringing me up and trolling this thread in an effort to bait me into a flame war. this thread is not about me, it is about bigotry on CC, and from the posts and andy's input, it is obvious it is a far larger problem than you are willing to recognize. afterall, you still seem to be part of the problem.-0

I suppose it's okay to call yourself-- The Black Jesus. I don't care for racism nor hypocrisy.

[mpjh]

Hmm, do we have an object case here to test Andy's approach? What action would a mod take here?

[xelabale]

Wow, there was totally like a conversation and stuff, then like everyone worked together, then people disagreed but like completely respected each other, then there was a whole bunch of really cool ideas and stuff which people totally talked about, then like a dude in charge actually really totally listened and did stuff.

Where am I?

[Woodruff]

Wow, there was totally like a conversation and stuff, then like everyone worked together, then people disagreed but like completely respected each other, then there was a whole bunch of really cool ideas and stuff which people totally talked about, then like a dude in charge actually really totally listened and did stuff.
Where am I?

You and I even agreed a couple of times. HAS THE WORLD GONE MAD?!?!?!

[MrBenn]

The proposal makes sense. Clamping down on abusive behaviour can only result in a more positive feel to the site.

[jiminski]

The proposal makes sense. Clamping down on abusive behaviour can only result in a more positive feel to the site.

it was specifically bigotry we sought to reign-in! i think our rights to abuse eachother in other ways is still entact, ya badly drawn little bowler-hat wearer!

[MrBenn]

i think our rights to abuse eachother in other ways is still entact, ya badly drawn little bowler-hat wearer!

I can take comfort from the fact that you're likely to die before me: http://www.ancestry.com/facts/JIMINSKI- ... tancy.ashx