real bad results in c and a (case resolved.)

[Metsfanmax]

You are arguing on minutiae. The case to answer is whether it should be considered against the rules for an account sitter to join another player into games when he is already aware that the member is absent and wont take the turns, whilst at the same time ensuring he takes his turns in the account sitters games. The net effect of this action would be to increase the level of points won to the account sitter, and conversely reduce the points lost when losing a game.

This isn't really the case, as it is already against the rules for an account sitter to join another player into non-tournament games, without qualification. This means it is against the rules for an account sitter to join another player into non-tournament games, regardless of intent (so Blitz is definitely guilty of that, as the admin correctly noted). Therefore the only possible question to answer is: should joining non-tournament games as an account sitter should be punished more harshly if the games joined are games with the account sitter's normal account in them, as this would boost the points of the sitter's normal account? I have an inclination that most people would answer this affirmatively. However, there was simply not a good precedent set prior to this incident. Hopefully that will change as a result of this incident, but I want to make it clear that since there was no real precedent on this question prior to now, the admin's decision was indeed correct.

Furthermore, it is not at all related to the crime of point dumping. As an account sitter, Blitz is obviously not obligated to take all of jobiwan's turns for him. It may be awfully convenient for Blitz to only take the turns in the games that Blitz himself is also in, but it is not Blitz's fault that jobiwan decided to just disappear on everyone. There's obviously something shady going on in this case, because Blitz was continuing to join games and letting them lapse (the tournament games). However, as shady and point-dumping-like as that might be, the rules seem to indirectly make clear that joining tournament games as an account sitter is unconditionally legitimate.

[jefjef]

I agree, and always have agreed, that in this case the Admin conducted themselves correctly.

You state this and yet you argue. Are you simply trolling and baiting?

[owenshooter]

I agree, and always have agreed, that in this case the Admin conducted themselves correctly.

You state this and yet you argue. Are you simply trolling and baiting?

how is he trolling and baiting by having a civil discussion about a matter he is trouble by? if you don't agree with someone it does not mean they are trolling and/or baiting. why try to derail this really interesting exchange of ideas with a baseless allegation of trolling/baiting. what an absolutely absurd comment... yes, fruitcake has stated that he thinks the admins conducted themselves properly in this case. however, he is questioning how things may change due to what has occurred in this case. you can agree with a decision based on the guidelines used to make the decision, and then question if those guidelines now need to be changed. there isn't any trolling or baiting going on in this thread, just civil discourse among some members that are confused by a very confusing situation...-the black jesus

[jefjef]

Dumper did join jobiwan into games knowing he was already deadbeating. This is not the actions of some one who holds himself out as some kind of iconic Conqueror. This is the actions of a small minded, backsliding person, the sort of person who is disregarded for their actions. Dumper has been caught with his hand in the cookie jar, speaking metaphorically, and no one can justify his actions. Least of all him as his words are no longer of any importance.

to use the expression "If blitz had intentions of point dumping he would have joined many public games for jobi." does not bear close scrutiny. What is your version of 'many'? It is highly likely that a straw poll of cc layers as to what constitutes 'many' would throw up a range of numbers. Surely the crime is worse in that Dumper joined jobiwan into those games knowing the beneficial effect it would have on his score (and it does, check your maths) and more importantly in Dumper's world, his position. Unfortunately this is a classic case of fooling some of the people all of the time and being found out.

I agree, and always have agreed, that in this case the Admin conducted themselves correctly. There has not been an exact precedent set. However, hopefully, this will focus their minds on ensuring the punishment fits the crime in the future.

As for Dumper? In my experience, a person never gets over something like this in real life....within cc there are too many players, senior ranks and otherwise, who now see him for what he is and will not hesitate to remind him when he next starts holding forth, which he will, for he cannot help himself and his skewed sense of self righteousness.

There's an old saying I hold dear and have always run my life by. "It is no good just acting in an honourable fashion, you must be seen to be acting in an honourable fashion".

Well owen,

I see 5 "Dumper's" and some cheap jabs in the same post that states that he agrees with CC's ruling. That to you equates to civil discussion? Looks like baiting and trolling to me...

[eddie2]

You are arguing on minutiae. The case to answer is whether it should be considered against the rules for an account sitter to join another player into games when he is already aware that the member is absent and wont take the turns, whilst at the same time ensuring he takes his turns in the account sitters games. The net effect of this action would be to increase the level of points won to the account sitter, and conversely reduce the points lost when losing a game.

This isn't really the case, as it is already against the rules for an account sitter to join another player into non-tournament games, without qualification. This means it is against the rules for an account sitter to join another player into non-tournament games, regardless of intent (so Blitz is definitely guilty of that, as the admin correctly noted). Therefore the only possible question to answer is: should joining non-tournament games as an account sitter should be punished more harshly if the games joined are games with the account sitter's normal account in them, as this would boost the points of the sitter's normal account? I have an inclination that most people would answer this affirmatively. However, there was simply not a good precedent set prior to this incident. Hopefully that will change as a result of this incident, but I want to make it clear that since there was no real precedent on this question prior to now, the admin's decision was indeed correct.

Furthermore, it is not at all related to the crime of point dumping. As an account sitter, Blitz is obviously not obligated to take all of jobiwan's turns for him. It may be awfully convenient for Blitz to only take the turns in the games that Blitz himself is also in, but it is not Blitz's fault that jobiwan decided to just disappear on everyone. There's obviously something shady going on in this case, because Blitz was continuing to join games and letting them lapse (the tournament games). However, as shady and point-dumping-like as that might be, the rules seem to indirectly make clear that joining tournament games as an account sitter is unconditionally legitimate.

hummmm metsfanmax is blitz telling you wwhat to say???? Have you read or even followed the case since day 1 from my very first post before blitz was mentioned and it was a jobiwan point dumping case?????????? if not let me run you through it quickly.

1)i report jobiwan for point dumping when seeing he had lost over 1000 points and was joining tourney games but not playing even when he was first to play and joining up 2nd.

2)someone mention blitz was sitting to me and i found a post that proved it in a game so added him.

3)blitz makes a statement to say he was join tourney games also stateing he was joining none tourney games that he was in and inviting jobiwan to him. also stateing jobiwan had missed turns in his games and was not responding to his pm's.

4) in this statement blitz also said he did not have enough time to play the tourney games as he only had enough time to play his quad games(these games should not of been joined by blitz he should of been playing his tourney and not inviting him to more games when there was already lots needing played)

5) 3 or 4 days after this statement it was seen that blitz was still inviting and joining him up to quad games 5 in total. also 10 or 12 more tourney games. at this point admin stepped in and froze jobiwan from joining more games.

now the case has been issued with a warning but blitz still gets to sit jobiwans account to finish the said games jobiwan should not of been in. gaining points from this because he got his rank lowered majorly.

So this case should at least of ended with jobiwan being kicked from these games because blitz has been found guilty of abuse but still gets to carry on with the abuse at this present time.

[natty dread]

Looks like baiting and trolling to me...

You keep using those words. I don't think they mean what you think they mean.

[jefjef]

Looks like baiting and trolling to me...

You keep using those words. I don't think they mean what you think they mean.

Well Natty you just successfully baited my with your off topic post directed at me. How about you never troll another post of mine.

[Metsfanmax]

now the case has been issued with a warning but blitz still gets to sit jobiwans account to finish the said games jobiwan should not of been in. gaining points from this because he got his rank lowered majorly.

So this case should at least of ended with jobiwan being kicked from these games because blitz has been found guilty of abuse but still gets to carry on with the abuse at this present time.

The only part of the whole situation that objectively, Blitz did wrong, was to have jobiwan join non-tournament games. The fact that jobiwan was deadbeating and therefore losing points while being on Blitz's team is rather convenient for Blitz, but Blitz had no obligation to take those other turns for jobiwan to prevent him from point dumping.

[eddie2]

now the case has been issued with a warning but blitz still gets to sit jobiwans account to finish the said games jobiwan should not of been in. gaining points from this because he got his rank lowered majorly.

So this case should at least of ended with jobiwan being kicked from these games because blitz has been found guilty of abuse but still gets to carry on with the abuse at this present time.

The only part of the whole situation that objectively, Blitz did wrong, was to have jobiwan join non-tournament games. The fact that jobiwan was deadbeating and therefore losing points while being on Blitz's team is rather convenient for Blitz, but Blitz had no obligation to take those other turns for jobiwan to prevent him from point dumping.

but thats were the problem is metsfanmax jobiwan was not joining the games he was deadbeating/dumping in. the player that was sitting his account was and that player was also earning more points due to the fact he was joining these games he was deadbeating. are you telling me that when playing you do not notice when a player drops that amount of points. but still carry on doing it. even when there is a case about it and you see the case it still carries on. That is a move by someone who thinks they can do whatever they want.

[eddie2]

Looks like baiting and trolling to me...

You keep using those words. I don't think they mean what you think they mean.

Well Natty you just successfully baited my with your off topic post directed at me. How about you never troll another post of mine.

well since you bring this subject up were you not told to stay away from my topics by king a. this is my topic where you have been told to keep out of now if you have nothing to add constructivly to this thread plz stay away or you will be reported for baiting players into taking this off topic. and trolling my threads.

thankyou

eddie2.

[Metsfanmax]

but thats were the problem is metsfanmax jobiwan was not joining the games he was deadbeating/dumping in. the player that was sitting his account was and that player was also earning more points due to the fact he was joining these games he was deadbeating. are you telling me that when playing you do not notice when a player drops that amount of points. but still carry on doing it. even when there is a case about it and you see the case it still carries on. That is a move by someone who thinks they can do whatever they want.

I agree that it's a problem that jobiwan was deadbeating. I do not agree that Blitz should take the fall for that, even if he benefited from the deadbeating.

[natty dread]

Looks like baiting and trolling to me...

You keep using those words. I don't think they mean what you think they mean.

Well Natty you just successfully baited my with your off topic post directed at me. How about you never troll another post of mine.

Everything is baiting and trolling to you... you know those words lose meaning when you use them all the time? It's kinda like if you some day get a girlfriend (I mean a real one, not a pretend-over-the-internet one) and you start constantly telling her "I love you"... pretty soon it goes to the point where "I love you" becomes nothing but a greeting, it loses all of it's meaning... the same phenomenon is happening here with your careless use of words like "trolling" or "baiting". Whenever someone says something you disagree with, you accuse them of "trolling & baiting"....

Let me say this in simpler terms. Have you ever heard of the boy who cried "wolf"?

You, Jefjef, are the boy who cried "troll".

[Woodruff]

Blitz was cleared of point dumping, as determined by the mods. Therefore the warning is appropriate. All of the OP's arguments are based on the assumption that Blitz ought to have been guilty of point dumping, which is not how it turned out.

Blitz was never accused of point-dumping. He was accused of fucking over someone else's points.

[jefjef]

Looks like baiting and trolling to me...

You keep using those words. I don't think they mean what you think they mean.

Well Natty you just successfully baited my with your off topic post directed at me. How about you never troll another post of mine.

Everything is baiting and trolling to you... you know those words lose meaning when you use them all the time? It's kinda like if you some day get a girlfriend (I mean a real one, not a pretend-over-the-internet one) and you start constantly telling her "I love you"... pretty soon it goes to the point where "I love you" becomes nothing but a greeting, it loses all of it's meaning... the same phenomenon is happening here with your careless use of words like "trolling" or "baiting". Whenever someone says something you disagree with, you accuse them of "trolling & baiting"....

Let me say this in simpler terms. Have you ever heard of the boy who cried "wolf"?

You, Jefjef, are the boy who cried "troll".

More off topic "jj hurt my tender feelings" spew natty? Really? Get a life and get on topic.

So Natty what is your view in re of the BLITZ DECISION?

[Metsfanmax]

Blitz was cleared of point dumping, as determined by the mods. Therefore the warning is appropriate. All of the OP's arguments are based on the assumption that Blitz ought to have been guilty of point dumping, which is not how it turned out.

Blitz was never accused of point-dumping. He was accused of fucking over someone else's points.

He was accused of point dumping, and he was explicitly cleared of it in king a's post, even if there was not a serious belief that he was guilty of it.

And my posts should make it clear that he is not at fault for messing up jobiwan's points. All points jobiwan lost are solely due to the fact that jobiwan was not taking his own turns.

[eddie2]

Blitz was cleared of point dumping, as determined by the mods. Therefore the warning is appropriate. All of the OP's arguments are based on the assumption that Blitz ought to have been guilty of point dumping, which is not how it turned out.

Blitz was never accused of point-dumping. He was accused of fucking over someone else's points.

He was accused of point dumping, and he was explicitly cleared of it in king a's post, even if there was not a serious belief that he was guilty of it.

And my posts should make it clear that he is not at fault for messing up jobiwan's points. All points jobiwan lost are solely due to the fact that jobiwan was not taking his own turns.

this is were you are going wrong metsfanmax. jobiwan had not played a shot since the begining of march. so should not of been in any first round games at the end of it.

at the end of it this whole thread is about if we agreed with the punishments of some cases and if not what should be added for future events like this.

[Metsfanmax]

this is were you are going wrong metsfanmax. jobiwan had not played a shot since the begining of march. so should not of been in any first round games at the end of it.

That's correct; the reason he was in those games was because he signed up for those tournaments in the first place, when he shouldn't have if he couldn't continue to take his turns. It's not Blitz's fault that jobiwan signed up for Tournament games he couldn't play, and Blitz actually accepting those invites for jobiwan, while not in the best taste, is clearly protected by the rules.

[Woodruff]

And my posts should make it clear that he is not at fault for messing up jobiwan's points. All points jobiwan lost are solely due to the fact that jobiwan was not taking his own turns.

I disagree with this wholeheartedly. If Jobiwan is UNAWARE THAT HE HAS BEEN PUT INTO GAMES, then WHY would HE be responsible for PLAYING THOSE GAMES? That makes no sense to me at all.

[eddie2]

this is were you are going wrong metsfanmax. jobiwan had not played a shot since the begining of march. so should not of been in any first round games at the end of it.

That's correct; the reason he was in those games was because he signed up for those tournaments in the first place, when he shouldn't have if he couldn't continue to take his turns. It's not Blitz's fault that jobiwan signed up for Tournament games he couldn't play, and Blitz actually accepting those invites for jobiwan, while not in the best taste, is clearly protected by the rules.

now you have got it this should not be protected by the rules and there should be a heavier fine for it. plz go to the c and a report blitz states he did talk with jobiwan and told him he would help with the games. helping is not signing up and missing turns. while signing him up to illegal games and playing. if blitz could not cope with the game load he should not of accepted to do it. letting jobiwan get someone else to sit.

[Metsfanmax]

And my posts should make it clear that he is not at fault for messing up jobiwan's points. All points jobiwan lost are solely due to the fact that jobiwan was not taking his own turns.

I disagree with this wholeheartedly. If Jobiwan is UNAWARE THAT HE HAS BEEN PUT INTO GAMES, then WHY would HE be responsible for PLAYING THOSE GAMES? That makes no sense to me at all.

The thread in question makes it clear that Jobiwan did not deadbeat from games he was unaware he was joining. The only games he was unaware of were the ones Blitz created (and there seems to be some evidence that he was actually even aware that Blitz was creating new games for him?), and in those games Blitz actually took jobiwan's turns. All the games jobiwan deadbeated from were previously started games, and tournaments he voluntarily signed up for.

[eddie2]

And my posts should make it clear that he is not at fault for messing up jobiwan's points. All points jobiwan lost are solely due to the fact that jobiwan was not taking his own turns.

I disagree with this wholeheartedly. If Jobiwan is UNAWARE THAT HE HAS BEEN PUT INTO GAMES, then WHY would HE be responsible for PLAYING THOSE GAMES? That makes no sense to me at all.

The thread in question makes it clear that Jobiwan did not deadbeat from games he was unaware he was joining. The only games he was unaware of were the ones Blitz created, and in those games Blitz actually took jobiwan's turns. All the games jobiwan deadbeated from were previously started games, and tournaments he voluntarily signed up for.

no they were not if you lose a game you are out of most of them tourneys so in effect there are loads more games that jobiwan didnt know about think 1000 points how many games would of been lost for that amount of points. and even when the case was made and proof posted he still carried on doing it. signing him up and this was after he new about the case.

[Woodruff]

And my posts should make it clear that he is not at fault for messing up jobiwan's points. All points jobiwan lost are solely due to the fact that jobiwan was not taking his own turns.

I disagree with this wholeheartedly. If Jobiwan is UNAWARE THAT HE HAS BEEN PUT INTO GAMES, then WHY would HE be responsible for PLAYING THOSE GAMES? That makes no sense to me at all.

The thread in question makes it clear that Jobiwan did not deadbeat from games he was unaware he was joining.

This is not true. Jobiwan was joined into tournament games, and then left to deadbeat LONG AFTER Jobiwan had clearly stopped coming to the site.

[Metsfanmax]

And my posts should make it clear that he is not at fault for messing up jobiwan's points. All points jobiwan lost are solely due to the fact that jobiwan was not taking his own turns.

I disagree with this wholeheartedly. If Jobiwan is UNAWARE THAT HE HAS BEEN PUT INTO GAMES, then WHY would HE be responsible for PLAYING THOSE GAMES? That makes no sense to me at all.

The thread in question makes it clear that Jobiwan did not deadbeat from games he was unaware he was joining.

This is not true. Jobiwan was joined into tournament games, and then left to deadbeat LONG AFTER Jobiwan had clearly stopped coming to the site.

Jobiwan signed up for those tournaments and then quit. It is squarely his fault for signing up for a tournament and leaving CC without notifying the tournament organizer that he wouldn't be continuing to play the games.

[gradybridges]

All the games jobiwan deadbeated from were previously started games, and tournaments he voluntarily signed up for.

What about First round Tournament games where a sub would be wasy? Or my tournament where Jobiwan was a reserve and it was a play in game? Those would be NEW Tournaments?

I can't believe there are people still defending this shady play.

[Metsfanmax]

All the games jobiwan deadbeated from were previously started games, and tournaments he voluntarily signed up for.

What about First round Tournament games where a sub would be wasy? Or my tournament where Jobiwan was a reserve and it was a play in game? Those would be NEW Tournaments?

Jobiwan still signed up for those tournaments, and it was his obligation to tell the tournament organizers that a sub was needed to replace him. Surely it cannot be the obligation of an account sitter to tell a TO this, even if it would have saved everyone a lot of hassle if the sitter had done so in this case.