Point Reduction for Kiron?

[xiangwang]

It doesn't matter, it's not like we can't win games by playing by ourselves (which many of you seem to doubt), just more challenging with higher rankers.

Exactly. That's what we, as honest players, deal with every day!

You're so full of shit it's not even funny anymore. What a fucking loser you are mate(s).

Lx

I don't get it, I play games without kiron and win. It's not like blocking Kiron and I playing suddenly mean our win rate % will drop significantly or at all (it actually increases for me, one less good player to contend against)

Ok. Are you man enough to join a 7 player escalating game on Classic? Sequential of course, non of that 24 hour freestyle bullshit. Then I'll know if you're actually a good player or just a player who knows how to use freestyle and a a certain map to his advantage. And if you do, how do I know it's you taking your turns?

Lx

Why should i choose a setting where I have absolutely no control over? I can't tell the number of games lost on escalation because some idiot attempted to go for the win, failed, the next player just cleaned up. How is that more skilled? No diplomacy, bonuses are insignificant, very few variables to play. Why would I play a game where luck is such an important factor? Look at the top 50 ranks, how many player just plays quads, trips, or doubles against uncoordinated beginners? Tell them to play freestyle 8 players. At least on my games, there are some high rankers who know the map that have to deal with the random plays by beginners and know to recover from stupid hits. That happens to u escalation, game over. Explain how escalation takes more skill when there is no room to maneuvre from setbacks? Over time it is a negative point expactation on the classic map against 7 other random players each time. Sure you may win 1-2 games, but u usually lose 2-3 games. I'm not in a position to lose points for no reason and i'm sure many other players in the top 50 would feel the same too.

[eggrollonedolla]

Can I borrow a couple of medals wang? I like collecting.

[jsnyder748]

Can I borrow a couple of medals wang? I like collecting.

burn! can i borrow a couple from you? (here comes Gilligan)

[HardAttack]

GLG pulled even bigger abuses and never got a point reset. Just leave the man be and go on with your lives. It's been almost a month now.

I'm not worried about what's happened to other abusers in the past. I think it is a policy that should be changed. If you get points by cheating, you should not get to keep those points. That is just common sense to me.

You even said yourself, you don't care about other abusers in the past. Well even if for sake of argument, Kiron was an abuser (which I still contest), it was in the past. If you are going to change policy then it should be prospective not retroactive. 99% of change in laws and policy are prospective or retrospective, they don't punish people for things done in the past. The rules should be consistent, you can't suddenly flaunt new rule changes.

You are wrong here, pretty obvious wrong, wrong in cyrstal clear...
His past mistakes has present effects....Very clear, someone in the second place is BLOCKED to take conquerer, is the present effect of past illegal made score for Kiron.

[xiangwang]

and jsynder, even if the mods remove the points kiron got from the last game (okay, that was just misinterpretation of rules) and the 3 1v1 against me (don't why the 1v1 games are in question, we can't just play 1v1s?), does that mean i get my points back since I was like net lost of 70 points there? Also, lets be honest, if Kiron didn't beat Rabbiton's score of 4880sh, then Rabbiton would still hold the conqueror medal, so Ahunda would still need at least 4881 points. There is reasonable speculation that Rabbiton only went off because he isn't conqueror anymore.

[Seulessliathan]

Why should i choose a setting where I have absolutely no control over? No manipulation of players, no roommates to help me out. Explain how escalation takes more skill when there is no roommate to maneuvre from setbacks?

typos fixed

If you are afraid of noobs on a Classic escalating game, there are enough good players who would give you a challenge without noob moves.
If you want a tactical game about bonus, why not play an honest 2v2 double on your home map 3rd Crusade? Nobody will object if you invite Cof to your game (who doesn´t understand the map, didn´t you say that?)


Dear Xiangwang, Kiron, leonard_hall, Drakeavril, canada roommate society:

You got busted for cheating, if you want to get your reputation back, play some challenges on settings people accept. If you don´t care about repuation, maybe spare your time instead of posting here, your nicks are tainted until you prove you are a good player on sequential.

[Lindax]

It doesn't matter, it's not like we can't win games by playing by ourselves (which many of you seem to doubt), just more challenging with higher rankers.

Exactly. That's what we, as honest players, deal with every day!

You're so full of shit it's not even funny anymore. What a fucking loser you are mate(s).

Lx

I don't get it, I play games without kiron and win. It's not like blocking Kiron and I playing suddenly mean our win rate % will drop significantly or at all (it actually increases for me, one less good player to contend against)

Ok. Are you man enough to join a 7 player escalating game on Classic? Sequential of course, non of that 24 hour freestyle bullshit. Then I'll know if you're actually a good player or just a player who knows how to use freestyle and a a certain map to his advantage. And if you do, how do I know it's you taking your turns?

Lx

Why should i choose a setting where I have absolutely no control over? I can't tell the number of games lost on escalation because some idiot attempted to go for the win, failed, the next player just cleaned up. How is that more skilled? No diplomacy, bonuses are insignificant, very few variables to play. Why would I play a game where luck is such an important factor? Look at the top 50 ranks, how many player just plays quads, trips, or doubles against uncoordinated beginners? Tell them to play freestyle 8 players. At least on my games, there are some high rankers who know the map that have to deal with the random plays by beginners and know to recover from stupid hits. That happens to u escalation, game over. Explain how escalation takes more skill when there is no room to maneuvre from setbacks? Over time it is a negative point expactation on the classic map against 7 other random players each time. Sure you may win 1-2 games, but u usually lose 2-3 games. I'm not in a position to lose points for no reason and i'm sure many other players in the top 50 would feel the same too.

There you go, your answer says it all. You are wimps.

Lx

[Funkyterrance]

Why should i choose a setting where I have absolutely no control over? I can't tell the number of games lost on escalation because some idiot attempted to go for the win, failed, the next player just cleaned up. How is that more skilled? No diplomacy, bonuses are insignificant, very few variables to play. Why would I play a game where luck is such an important factor? Look at the top 50 ranks, how many player just plays quads, trips, or doubles against uncoordinated beginners? Tell them to play freestyle 8 players. At least on my games, there are some high rankers who know the map that have to deal with the random plays by beginners and know to recover from stupid hits. That happens to u escalation, game over. Explain how escalation takes more skill when there is no room to maneuvre from setbacks? Over time it is a negative point expactation on the classic map against 7 other random players each time. Sure you may win 1-2 games, but u usually lose 2-3 games. I'm not in a position to lose points for no reason and i'm sure many other players in the top 50 would feel the same too.

Yeah, according to your games played I don't see a single one with escalating spoils.

[BigBallinStalin]

GLG pulled even bigger abuses and never got a point reset. Just leave the man be and go on with your lives. It's been almost a month now.

I'm not worried about what's happened to other abusers in the past. I think it is a policy that should be changed. If you get points by cheating, you should not get to keep those points. That is just common sense to me.

You even said yourself, you don't care about other abusers in the past. Well even if for sake of argument, Kiron was an abuser (which I still contest), it was in the past. If you are going to change policy then it should be prospective not retroactive. 99% of change in laws and policy are prospective or retrospective, they don't punish people for things done in the past. The rules should be consistent, you can't suddenly flaunt new rule changes.

xiang, if you give Swifte the benefit of the doubt, then we can accept that the actions by users like GLG don't excuse your cheating, nor does it excuse the cheating of others.

In other words, statements like "GLG pulled even bigger abuses and never got a point reset" are irrelevant.

Should punishments apply retroactively? Maybe that's what you're asking, but that's also irrelevant ITT...

I never gave Swifte the benefit of the doubt, i was just going along hypotheticals in the alternative scenario. I still contest that we were not cheating, but the mods seems to want to play safe or just block us to appease the mob. It doesn't matter, it's not like we can't win games by playing by ourselves (which many of you seem to doubt), just more challenging with higher rankers.

Sure, the legal system may have faults, but Kiron should be punished appropriately--which includes some kind of point reduction and/or stripping of medals.

[Swifte]

That's why this case makes no sense to me - if it was deemed abuse enough to remove the medal, why should he keep the points?

[Agent 86]

I have voted for the affirmative, point reduction is in order

[xiangwang]

Why should i choose a setting where I have absolutely no control over? I can't tell the number of games lost on escalation because some idiot attempted to go for the win, failed, the next player just cleaned up. How is that more skilled? No diplomacy, bonuses are insignificant, very few variables to play. Why would I play a game where luck is such an important factor? Look at the top 50 ranks, how many player just plays quads, trips, or doubles against uncoordinated beginners? Tell them to play freestyle 8 players. At least on my games, there are some high rankers who know the map that have to deal with the random plays by beginners and know to recover from stupid hits. That happens to u escalation, game over. Explain how escalation takes more skill when there is no room to maneuvre from setbacks? Over time it is a negative point expactation on the classic map against 7 other random players each time. Sure you may win 1-2 games, but u usually lose 2-3 games. I'm not in a position to lose points for no reason and i'm sure many other players in the top 50 would feel the same too.

Yeah, according to your games played I don't see a single one with escalating spoils.

Kiron tells me about them and why I should avoid them so I do. Wait let me guess, you are are going to claim that's cheating too

[AslanTheKing]

youre twisting around the facts,
i am a total beginner of CC, look at my history of games u will realise something,
lots of classic, lots of esc, lot of up and down ...
u guys dont have that, u guys gained experience with another account before,
u had a masterplan and a strategic alliance from beginning on,
u abused the system

in freestyle one of u both could finish last, and as soon u log in ( your partner is next to you)
u both could play at the same time- but for your advantage-not harming the other one-a simple alliance,

and abusing and misleading and lying to the others in chat ( some call this diplomacy - i call it secret diplomacy)

u used unfair tactics to get where u are and ure still arrogant and proud of it

i basically dont care about u guys, but i do have the moral strength to step up to you guys 2

every body is trying to win somehow, u made it just too obvious
and now everybody knows, i would be ashamed, youre proud

i think kiron and xiangwang are punished enough, on public display for everybody to see
i almost forgot the smile, here it is for you

[Gabriel13]

youre twisting around the facts,
i am a total beginner of CC, look at my history of games u will realise something,
lots of classic, lots of esc, lot of up and down ...
u guys dont have that, u guys gained experience with another account before,
u had a masterplan and a strategic alliance from beginning on,
u abused the system

in freestyle one of u both could finish last, and as soon u log in ( your partner is next to you)
u both could play at the same time- but for your advantage-not harming the other one-a simple alliance,

and abusing and misleading and lying to the others in chat ( some call this diplomacy - i call it secret diplomacy)

u used unfair tactics to get where u are and ure still arrogant and proud of it

i basically dont care about u guys, but i do have the moral strength to step up to you guys 2

every body is trying to win somehow, u made it just too obvious
and now everybody knows, i would be ashamed, youre proud

i think kiron and xiangwang are punished enough, on public display for everybody to see
i almost forgot the smile, here it is for you

If this was somebody else, I would agree, but I really don't like you, so no.

[Funkyterrance]

If this was somebody else, I would agree, but I really don't like you, so no.

What a wonderful reason to disagree with someone. You should visit off-topics more often, you'd love it there.

[mc05025]

Even if Kiron might not deserve 4900, he deserves a 4600 for sure. So being conqueror is logic in any case.

The problem is when conquerors plays a 1v1 game every month. That is guaranty of a steady score for a some years even if you do not deserve it. This is the problem and this should be change. Rabbiton has givven a good example of how many years some people can do that in order to theirselves on the top.

The conqueror should play a lot of games (When I say a lot of games I mean against a lot of players, for example 4 8player games should count as 4X7=28 1v1) in order to maintain the position of the conqueror.

This is the problem that admins should somehow fix to make the scoreboard more intresting and to prevent the occupation of the conqueror postition from inactive players

[mc05025]

Why should i choose a setting where I have absolutely no control over? I can't tell the number of games lost on escalation because some idiot attempted to go for the win, failed, the next player just cleaned up. How is that more skilled? No diplomacy, bonuses are insignificant, very few variables to play. Why would I play a game where luck is such an important factor? Look at the top 50 ranks, how many player just plays quads, trips, or doubles against uncoordinated beginners? Tell them to play freestyle 8 players. At least on my games, there are some high rankers who know the map that have to deal with the random plays by beginners and know to recover from stupid hits. That happens to u escalation, game over. Explain how escalation takes more skill when there is no room to maneuvre from setbacks? Over time it is a negative point expactation on the classic map against 7 other random players each time. Sure you may win 1-2 games, but u usually lose 2-3 games. I'm not in a position to lose points for no reason and i'm sure many other players in the top 50 would feel the same too.

The way Kiron doesn't know how to play escalating doesn't really mean something. 8 players escalating freestyle fog got me to 5150 and an other time from 4200 to 4900 within two weaks. It is the best way to gain points really quickly.

There is no diplomacy and a lot of luck but the gameplay is much more complicated and demanding than flat rate. I feel like I am playing flat rate almost perfectly while in escalating there can be a player able to completely destroy me.

[Funkyterrance]

Even if Kiron might not deserve 4900, he deserves a 4600 for sure. So being conqueror is logic in any case.

The problem is when conquerors plays a 1v1 game every month. That is guaranty of a steady score for a some years even if you do not deserve it. This is the problem and this should be change. Rabbiton has givven a good example of how many years some people can do that in order to theirselves on the top.

The conqueror should play a lot of games (When I say a lot of games I mean against a lot of players, for example 4 8player games should count as 4X7=28 1v1) in order to maintain the position of the conqueror.

This is the problem that admins should somehow fix to make the scoreboard more interesting and to prevent the occupation of the conqueror position from inactive players

Is the problem in the inactivity of said player or is it in the gaining of those points in the first place? I don't see anything wrong with a player staying at the conqueror position for years just so long as he/she got the points legitimately. However, it seems like on CC that's rarely if ever the case. Besides, isn't there the chance that rabbiton will lose when he plays that rare 1v1?
If you mean a complete restructuring of the scoreboard and the way you stay on it, I'm all for it because they current system is a little whacked in that it encourages all the wrong things. Thing is, I don't think you can change it piecemeal to fix it. It's going to have to be a clean slate.

[mc05025]

When plying once a month a 1v1 game you are inactive. It will take you some years to lose 200 points if those are enough. In order to be conqueror you should be more active. You can just put a limit for the generals and above for example or just for the conqueror of the number of your opponents per month.

Kiron gain more than 4600 points without using any trick. He would have been conqueror and he deserves it in any way.

[xiangwang]

When plying once a month a 1v1 game you are inactive. It will take you some years to lose 200 points if those are enough. In order to be conqueror you should be more active. You can just put a limit for the generals and above for example or just for the conqueror of the number of your opponents per month.

Kiron gain more than 4600 points without using any trick. He would have been conqueror and he deserves it in any way.

I'm surprised you are defending Kiron considering u can regain conqueror status if he lost points. Anyways, Kiron has moved on for the most part, he's only playing 1v1 seq due to limited time atm (though he sucks at it)

[Funkyterrance]

Kiron gain more than 4600 points without using any trick. He would have been conqueror and he deserves it in any way.

You know this for a fact?

But really, the way the system is set up now it rewards exactly what rabbiton did/does. This is what is encouraged by the current system; grab as many point as you can by whatever means possible and then find a way to stay at the top by whatever means possible. Specialization and limiting oneself to games where you don't fall down the scoreboard, rabbiton isn't doing anything new under the sun, he's just not addicted to the game so he's able to stay there longer.

[josko.ri]

Even if Kiron might not deserve 4900, he deserves a 4600 for sure. So being conqueror is logic in any case.

The problem is when conquerors plays a 1v1 game every month. That is guaranty of a steady score for a some years even if you do not deserve it. This is the problem and this should be change. Rabbiton has givven a good example of how many years some people can do that in order to theirselves on the top.

The conqueror should play a lot of games (When I say a lot of games I mean against a lot of players, for example 4 8player games should count as 4X7=28 1v1) in order to maintain the position of the conqueror.

This is the problem that admins should somehow fix to make the scoreboard more intresting and to prevent the occupation of the conqueror postition from inactive players

A good direction to minimize doing this is making special rule only for conqueror that he lose his rank if he has zero active games. Not after one month, but immediately, and immediately get it back when start a new game. The other way may be giving them premium member privileges for the time of having conqueror rank (for freemiums), or extend Premium membership for number of days that someone was conqueror (for Premiums). This is actually equal like 1 year of Premium, just would be separated by several conquerors on daily basis. When I see for what reasons other players get free premium (like winning some GA medal in some CC tournament) then for sure being Conqueror is something harder to achieve than win GA medal in some tournament. Conqueror is on top of 14000 players, and a tournament winner is on top of like 128-256 players who participated in the tournament. The third way to encourage conquerors to play more is giving them some privileges, like for example free entrance to Conquer Cup. Any tournament, including Conquer Cup, should be very honored and much more respected if Conqueror plays in the tournament. Imagine a great feeling for some new player on site who get a privilege that draw put him in the same game with conqueror. I still remember such a great feeling when I first time played vs conqueror, and also still remember how I was proud when I first time beat conqueror. Playing versus or beating conqueror is for sure something which would encourage new players to stay on site. With some benefits, being conqueror will get its higher purpose so maybe competition to become conqueror would be raised on higher level.

Also, from what I see most of players who support Kiron are the ones who would actually profit by his point reset. Isn't that paradoxal? jsnyder, who was maybe the biggest victim IF Kiron and xianwang cheated because he was very often opponents in those 8 player games, is supporting them. mc05025, who would move from #3 to #2, maybe to #1 with 1-2 games won, also support Kiron in most of parts. And those players are not some clueless noobs, they always find a good argument and stays behing their arguments in discussions. So, in reality, who want Kiron's point reset are actually (most of them, not all) jealous and frustrated noobs who cannot handle that they are not so good and logical players so instead looking how to improve their gameplay they are looking how to present the real good ones in bad way. The other ones, who are capable top players and who are seeking for top class challenge, know that Kiron are where he is in first hand because of his great skill (for the particular map/settings), not because of cheating.

Also, from my yesterday experience, I sent challenging pm to Kiron, asking him to play 1v1 on Waterloo map. I know that is his one of the best maps, and is also mine one of the best, so I was seeking for real top challenge, and I got it without any problem. For me, that only proves that he likes top challenges and likes to accept top class requests and do not escape from challenges. That is completely different than GLG who did totally opposite and was hated because of that. The same experience I had with rabbiton.

[xiangwang]

From the looks of it, this forum is pretty down to 3500+ players saying leave Kiron alone/support him (or at least ambivalent) against less than 3500 point players who wants Kiron to have a point reduction. Annoying mob rule. Go figure lol XD

[Funkyterrance]

If you guys want a rule about conqueor's active games you should start an official suggestion.

[AslanTheKing]

Kiron gain more than 4600 points without using any trick. He would have been conqueror and he deserves it in any way.

are you following the threats of the past?
have u taken your time to read soroughly through them, starting from 2011, it was fishy in the beginning already, just nobody cared
read page after page and think,

http://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=58&t=117940&start=45



Re: How to get a colonel in under 100 games
Postby xiangwang on Sun Feb 27, 2011 4:54 am

@aslantheking
Well, we realized that playing games against each other is fun. Nothing wrong with that. Trust me, beating someone you know in the game is an awesome feeling

I don't see the point in your rant, I only played with kiron for only a small portion of my games.
I can still win without playing with kiron and vica versa. So what's your point?



Re: How to get a colonel in under 100 games

Postby AslanTheKing on Sun Feb 27, 2011 12:40 pm
Point is,
if you want to play with a friend, play doubles or 1v1
beating a friend is fun, if he has better strategy and and maybe more talent, then it will be even more success.
But in games of 8 guys, your goal will be always in favour of your teammate, without secret diplomacy.
It is just unfair to the others , since there chances are diminished, only if they are experienced they will realize it early enough to keep the powers balanced, the rest will be depending on dice and cards.

I am not rattling, i use my free speech and nothing is personal, if you take it to a personal stage, i am out of this
issue, dont have time for it, nor have i anything against you, yust against your style of play ( which is unfair to others).

And yes you are right, it is possible even with fairplay to get a colonel under 100 games.

I believe you know the game well, and if you would be playing alone in a game against other 7, you are experienced enough
to win 30 percent of your games. ( even 50 percent is possible ).

I only played with kiron for only a small portion of my games.

out of 117 games, 40 games with kiron is not a small number, thats 40 percent?
out of 40 games you won 20 times?

i do openly critisize the way or style of your gameplay,
i am not accusing you to be a cheater, or silent diplomacy or whatsoever,
i am not after you or against you,
generally this way of playing with a friend, will be unfair to others and diminish their chances.[/color][/b]


look at the date and count until today
( how many of his opponents are not playing anymore ...)