Thoughts on the Farmers Guild

[prismsaber]

Prismsaber, Prismsaber, Prismsaber. What to say about your comment. Hmmm. I'll put it to you nicely since I think you're smarter than your last statement would show. If I remember correctly this was your second cheap shot at me. Well strike three and you're out. We are on our proper place on the scoreboard as are you. You have to work around us until the rules change. Get it?! We are your competition in that sense. Deal with it. Quit your whining. I can't speak for anyone on this matter but myself. We all have a different approach being we are all different people with separate playing styles. Don't attach my phrases to the clan unless they individually agree with me.

Where in this topic did I ever mention your name? That's right, I didn't. For not ever mentioning your name you sure got defensive quickly. And three strikes I'm out? What does that even mean? Apparently this message is only strike 2, if you can count it as a "cheap shot." In fact, you are the one levying cheap shots on me by name calling and making strange threats of e-retribution.

I'd be willing to bet that the majority of players on this site don't respect noob farming. This is not something you can change. Why anyone would seek validation for this is beyond me. I don't think what you're really after is respect, however. You're trying to be funny (and failing) and you're after attention, of which I have given far too much of and will now take my leave.

Good day to you sir.

[yeti_c]

Without getting into the middle of this argument ( I can see both sides: I personally find playing assassin freestyle games on waterloo against noobs to be a bit cheeky, but I'll give herpes credit in that he's willing to put those points on the line in some of george and scott's RT games), let me confess that I was farmed. Yes, when I was but a question mark, I hastily just jumped into a few games for the fun of it. One of them was a trips game on Middle Earth. My teammates were a fellow noob, and a private that deadbeated. The opponents were blitz and two longtime teammates. It wasn't pretty, but if nothing else, it sharpened my resolve to stay on CC and kick some ass in retribution.

You should go on Jerry Springer!!

C.

[King_Herpes]

I'm changing the name of this thread to Noob Farming With Hypocrites!

Current game's with good old farmer prismsaber: 3251321, 3251330, 3251444, 3238098, 3237509, 3237507, 3236769, 3207558, 3207556, 3207001, 3189743..... and that's just on your first page. Not to mention the trips and quads no cards chained games you have on your way

I seek validation because a lot of you are hypocrites who have some dummy-d down definition of what farming is. What you do is no different than what I do to gain rank. The only difference is that I'm not afraid to admit it. I'm honest and upfront.

I never stated that you said my name lil' buddy. The other thing that many of you are doing is manipulating words and putting them in my mouth. I'm not buying it.

You said something dumb along these lines on a congratulations thread made for me by people who show respect. Strike one. Your last statement before you putting up your dukes, a nonsensical attempt to bring the name of our clan down posted with a profound snootiness was strike 2. I will chew you up and spit you out. You are a hypocrite. Next in line please.

[gdeangel]

It is one thing to play for points. You can get a noob or junior player onto your team and teach them a few things so that you have a better relative point spread. You can join games you think you have a high chance of winning because you outrank the other players by miles or you "own" the map. And you can even set up games that cater to your particular "talents" like speed freestyle assassin, which make it very unlikely anyone is going to be able to beat you, be they a noob or a regular, and if noobs go for the bait. Yet it is something different when you go around advertising yourself as a farmer, and particularly if the people who are in this "club" happen to be able to run up the scoreboard to page one in a day using their techniques, when a solid player going at a decent win rate in genuine "luck+skill" contests will take weeks if not months to get to page 1. Then you are saying to all those players, ha ha, your effort to get here means nothing! When you are specifically targetting "?'s" and but won't take on a corporal, then there is a problem IMHO.

So it is a double edged sword. To say: we got here by farming is to admit that you perhaps don't belong in the same category of player as those who do not farm. I would find it amusing if you all put "Grade A Farm Products" on your avatar right next to your score... but to the vast middling ranks from Lieutenant to Major, to those aspiring to work their way to page one, you are saying to them: look here... we have a secret, no fail way to get there and it doesn't cost anything for you. Play your "skill" games, but hedge with some noob farming. I made this thread because there is a real risk here that we will have a race to the bottom. That devalues the goals that others set and work hard to achieve.

There are other great things about this site than being high in the point list. Those include fresh and challenging maps, well thought out and fun tournaments, and clan wars, so I don't think people who are generally satisfied with their rank will leave in droves from the above... but there will be some who are not in clans, who don't play tournaments, etc. who may really be motivated to play to see how far they can climb the ladder, and for them this, rampant and advertised farming I expect would be a deal killer and/or the offer too good to refuse that brings down the quality of the site overall.

[King_Herpes]

It is one thing to play for points. You can get a noob or junior player onto your team and teach them a few things so that you have a better relative point spread. You can join games you think you have a high chance of winning because you outrank the other players by miles or you "own" the map. And you can even set up games that cater to your particular "talents" like speed freestyle assassin, which make it very unlikely anyone is going to be able to beat you, be they a noob or a regular, and if noobs go for the bait. Yet it is something different when you go around advertising yourself as a farmer, and particularly if the people who are in this "club" happen to be able to run up the scoreboard to page one in a day using their techniques, when a solid player going at a decent win rate in genuine "luck+skill" contests will take weeks if not months to get to page 1. Then you are saying to all those players, ha ha, your effort to get here means nothing! When you are specifically targetting "?'s" and but won't take on a corporal, then there is a problem IMHO.

So it is a double edged sword. To say: we got here by farming is to admit that you perhaps don't belong in the same category of player as those who do not farm. I would find it amusing if you all put "Grade A Farm Products" on your avatar right next to your score... but to the vast middling ranks from Lieutenant to Major, to those aspiring to work their way to page one, you are saying to them: look here... we have a secret, no fail way to get there and it doesn't cost anything for you. Play your "skill" games, but hedge with some noob farming. I made this thread because there is a real risk here that we will have a race to the bottom. That devalues the goals that others set and work hard to achieve.

There are other great things about this site than being high in the point list. Those include fresh and challenging maps, well thought out and fun tournaments, and clan wars, so I don't think people who are generally satisfied with their rank will leave in droves from the above... but there will be some who are not in clans, who don't play tournaments, etc. who may really be motivated to play to see how far they can climb the ladder, and for them this, rampant and advertised farming I expect would be a deal killer and/or the offer too good to refuse that brings down the quality of the site overall.

Well maybe I can buy you a teddy bear. Will that cheer you up? Once again people this is Conquer Club, Not Whiny baby nuts Club. How I decide to play only affects those who choose to look at it that way. The cry baby's. Do you hear the people in the top ten whining. No. Do they all farm. No. There are plenty of ways to get ahead. Figure out a formula that gains you points and run with it. Don't make me dig into your individual game histories and prove that you have once farmed for points. I play all ranks from ?-Conqueror. I have beaten all ranks from ?-Conqueror. I have nothing more to prove to myself but to see if I can get the balloon. So your bickering is useless if you're trying to make me feel bad. Or ashamed. Tell it to your counselor. Maybe they will sympathize with your petty sentiments.

I know it looks like advertising to your average dimwit, but it is just us being honest in disguise. FARM OR DIE!

[Scott-Land]

I can't speak for the other members of the clan but Herpes rarely turns down an invite. Albeit he gains his points through less desirable means, he doesn't hide behind his rank unlike some of the top 50 players. When those high ranking players, like Greatwhite, sets up public trips or dubs, do you actually think they're hoping a better team joins?

I'm sure he understands that it's not going to be the most respected method of reaching Conqueror. I'm also quite sure he doesn't give a damn- it's a goal he wants to reach. His farming doesn't affect me adversely. If anything, it's one more player that can fill a high rank lineup. One more player we can farm- err play.

[Chariot of Fire]

If farming is not contrary to the rules then, apart from expressing disdain for the practice, there's really nothing more that can be done - ergo those in each camp can argue until the cows come home.

From a commercial perspective I've no doubt that it's detrimental to business. Many newcomers simply lose heart after joining the site, as they get steamrollered by a seasoned pro and then ask themselves "Where's the fun?"

Most people can recall the school bully, yet for several years they managed to co-exist under the one roof - it's not so different here. People know who the bullies are and just simply avoid them - it's as easy as that.

I just wonder where the purpose lies in playing games that are no challenge whatsoever. It just seems so pointless (no pun intended) and a waste of one's time and talent, but to each his own I guess.

I'm happy with where I stand and the manner in which I've got here. I have to afford the same sentiment to every other player out there - they're simply doing what they enjoy and they're obviously very good at doing it. In similar vein I don't take it up the arse, yet don't complain when the Gay Mardi Gras comes mincing down the High Street. I simply keep my distance and point a finger of disapproval for the benefit of my audience

[gdeangel]

I suspect that King Herpes didn't read my post at all. There's really nothing I'm whining about. I'm happy with my score, and I know it took me a while to get there but I wouldn't have it any other way or I wouldn't think it's worth a damn. Point dilution / point inflation is a concern however, when specific strategies start getting developed and disseminated that will make the problem worse.

Maybe it isn't a big deal with the handful of people in the top 10 who are facing ridiculous payouts of 2-5 points per game against most opponents, but where it will start to really affect things is when your run-of-the-mill sergeant or corporal sees this clan, looks at what kind of games these guys use to get points, and then goes off an copies them. That means in the middling ranks, the other legitimate players who are trying to get games with their peer skill level, will be left scratching their heads saying: hey, where did all the games go - there's nobody left to play but scrubs. If they are lucky, maybe they will wander into the forum and find some good tournaments or a clan to keep their interest alive, but I would guess more than a few will simply abandon the site.

[Scott-Land]

If farming is not contrary to the rules then, apart from expressing disdain for the practice, there's really nothing more that can be done - ergo those in each camp can argue until the cows come home.

From a commercial perspective I've no doubt that it's detrimental to business. Many newcomers simply lose heart after joining the site, as they get steamrollered by a seasoned pro and then ask themselves "Where's the fun?"

I'm not condoning the practice of farming noobs. But in all honesty, did anyone expect to win when they first joined the site? I don't think it's a valid point to argue- where newcomers simply lose heart...

The real problem here isn't about the noobs. It's guys that climb the scoreboard the legitimate way feel it's unjust that Herpes and Co. are ahead of them using cheap tactics. If they weren't successful at farming, there would be no problem. The fact that they are is the reason it's being discussed.

Comic's post in a different thread summarizes it best.

The problem with your reasoning is that the very best players dont in fact brag because they dont need to, their peers know exactly who they are and acknowledge them accordingly. The flip side is somebody like Maxatstuy who has a ton of points but no recognition whatsoever because he has achieved nothing except exploit a loophole in order to beat up noobs.........

[King_Herpes]

I suspect that King Herpes didn't read my post at all. There's really nothing I'm whining about. I'm happy with my score, and I know it took me a while to get there but I wouldn't have it any other way or I wouldn't think it's worth a damn. Point dilution / point inflation is a concern however, when specific strategies start getting developed and disseminated that will make the problem worse.

Maybe it isn't a big deal with the handful of people in the top 10 who are facing ridiculous payouts of 2-5 points per game against most opponents, but where it will start to really affect things is when your run-of-the-mill sergeant or corporal sees this clan, looks at what kind of games these guys use to get points, and then goes off an copies them. That means in the middling ranks, the other legitimate players who are trying to get games with their peer skill level, will be left scratching their heads saying: hey, where did all the games go - there's nobody left to play but scrubs. If they are lucky, maybe they will wander into the forum and find some good tournaments or a clan to keep their interest alive, but I would guess more than a few will simply abandon the site.

I am reading what you're saying. I think you're being a bit neurotic. You can't stop the inevitable. It was you who started the thread so thanks for spreading the knowledge of this so called problem. It's all this attention that will make other players try to do this. Although my whole argument thus far has been that it is not as easy as everyone's making it out to be. Try it and find out. I guarantee they won't have a 98% kill ratio on Waterloo. That's currently what it takes for me to gain enough to where it is worth it. Or have a higher percentage of wins than some of the best one on one farmers. You can only get so high on the scoreboard before it proves to be difficult to climb the ladder.

And yes I'm sure you are happy with your rank. I'm not belittling it. I'm arguing the point that there is nothing detrimental happening because of what I do. I was a brigadier before I put this strategy into place. I was proud of that in itself. Not including all of my deserved medals with under 1000 games played. I am a good player and nobody can tell me otherwise. This is just something I decided to do with my account as of lately. A direction that I have full intention of following through to go as far as I can climb.

And when you get above 4500 there is not much more of a payout than a few points even when beating the highest of ranks. I personally can only get 20 points off of less than 5 people at this point. I'm up in the nose bleeds and this is how I insure me gaining. Sorry if I hurt your feelings. I wish I could be more comforting and empathetic in life. I probably could if I cared for such saps. It's a dog eat dog world people. That is how I play this game. I could care less about the people I'm stepping on and their individual concerns and cries for help.

[hulmey]

I suspect that King Herpes didn't read my post at all. There's really nothing I'm whining about. I'm happy with my score, and I know it took me a while to get there but I wouldn't have it any other way or I wouldn't think it's worth a damn. Point dilution / point inflation is a concern however, when specific strategies start getting developed and disseminated that will make the problem worse.

Maybe it isn't a big deal with the handful of people in the top 10 who are facing ridiculous payouts of 2-5 points per game against most opponents, but where it will start to really affect things is when your run-of-the-mill sergeant or corporal sees this clan, looks at what kind of games these guys use to get points, and then goes off an copies them. That means in the middling ranks, the other legitimate players who are trying to get games with their peer skill level, will be left scratching their heads saying: hey, where did all the games go - there's nobody left to play but scrubs. If they are lucky, maybe they will wander into the forum and find some good tournaments or a clan to keep their interest alive, but I would guess more than a few will simply abandon the site.

I am reading what you're saying. I think you're being a bit neurotic. You can't stop the inevitable. It was you who started the thread so thanks for spreading the knowledge of this so called problem. It's all this attention that will make other players try to do this. Although my whole argument thus far has been that it is not as easy as everyone's making it out to be. Try it and find out. I guarantee they won't have a 98% kill ratio on Waterloo. That's currently what it takes for me to gain enough to where it is worth it. Or have a higher percentage of wins than some of the best one on one farmers. You can only get so high on the scoreboard before it proves to be difficult to climb the ladder.

And yes I'm sure you are happy with your rank. I'm not belittling it. I'm arguing the point that there is nothing detrimental happening because of what I do. I was a brigadier before I put this strategy into place. I was proud of that in itself. Not including all of my deserved medals with under 1000 games played. I am a good player and nobody can tell me otherwise. This is just something I decided to do with my account as of lately. A direction that I have full intention of following through to go as far as I can climb.

And when you get above 4500 there is not much more of a payout than a few points even when beating the highest of ranks. I personally can only get 20 points off of less than 5 people at this point. I'm up in the nose bleeds and this is how I insure me gaining. Sorry if I hurt your feelings. I wish I could be more comforting and empathetic in life. I probably could if I cared for such saps. It's a dog eat dog world people. That is how I play this game. I could care less about the people I'm stepping on and their individual concerns and cries for help.

Hello Mr.Farmer,

but i cent find me combine harvesterrrrr *in a very strong norfolk accent*. You played nearly 1350 games

[RiskTycoon]

Without getting into the middle of this argument ( I can see both sides: I personally find playing assassin freestyle games on waterloo against noobs to be a bit cheeky, but I'll give herpes credit in that he's willing to put those points on the line in some of george and scott's RT games), let me confess that I was farmed. Yes, when I was but a question mark, I hastily just jumped into a few games for the fun of it. One of them was a trips game on Middle Earth. My teammates were a fellow noob, and a private that deadbeated. The opponents were blitz and two longtime teammates. It wasn't pretty, but if nothing else, it sharpened my resolve to stay on CC and kick some ass in retribution.

+1 to this here ....

I'm with this guy ... when i first started .. I played with all friends from work ... once i got the hang of the game i went hunting for the best that i could play in team games ..... those names i still remember ...... and one person who was, at the time, number one on the scoreboard with his two seasoned pals on world map......

my two buds from work and myself timed it perfect and hopped right in to play the best of the best at the time....... not only did i learn a great deal....but they were pretty sad to lose all those points

135711 eye84free was top of the scoreboard during this game ..... and
235428 Blitzaholic had over 4000 points during this game which was unheard of at the time ....

so, I ask you ...... because i joined their games as a very low rank compared to them .... does that make them farmers?

no.... of course it doesn't ..... and if you look at the game chat from the second game ..... you can see i was honestly very excited to be able to test my skills against some of the best ....

So I applaud those that put public team games out there that are high ranked...... they are doing people like me a favor by giving me the ability to learn from folks who really have a fine tuned game ..... I would have never become the team player i am today if it wasn't for people like Blitzaholic and eye84free tossing out public games for me to join .... i would have sat with my fellow crappy peers gaining small points learning nothing .... instead of learning from some of the best and gaining HUGE point gains to get up the scoreboard !

I'd say there is nothing wrong with it one bit ....

[King_Herpes]

Farming can be done while putting a happy face on it to make it less obvious. Such as: aa hem!, joining at the bottom of triples or quadruples freestyle games when team one is not online=farming. Or simply taking advantage of any relatively new player on a freestyle setting. Also farming. No cards chained triples and Quads, the usual compitition is cooks and cadets. They are esencially ?'s still pressing the Join A Game button joining the games that are on the top of the list. The only difference being they can now see team games since they are ranked. These are obviously just kids for the most part. Not taking full advantage of what the site truly offers. If you press the Join A Game button, the only thing you are going to see at the top of the list is Team games. Almost always Trips and Quads No cards. The one's that are on the top of the list will soon be filled with cooks and bars(cadets). These people do not understand the concept of no cards chained meaning: usually they attack for themselves, usually they never share forts or deployments. And the high ranked players know this. It's easy money. It's farming. There are plenty of high ranking players including some people who speak against farming that farm.

I'm sure they don't want to be called farmers. So I won't call them that. We all know Blitz is a great player. I've played him on many occasions. I wish he would speak up, because he could adhere to this and tell you I'm no pushover in a regular game. But if they do the things above, they have farmed. Considering that the same ?'s (That are now just barely ranked and are in few cases any wiser) that don't know how to really select safer games and just choose the games on top of the Join A Game List still are being "baited" as gdeangel so abruptly put it. Yes you can give them an extra credit point for allowing whoever to join and not necessarily aiming for ?'s. The fact is though that these players are smart enough to understand what I've written above. They are farming for that reason. Not every game ends up being a day at the farm like you have pointed out but like Scotland said, "Do you think they are hoping for a better team to join"? That was a rhetorical question for the people who don't understand his logic. The answer is no. Otherwise they would have made it a private game and invited high or equal ranks. Which he also does. He's been around long enough to know the difference.

Hulmey, my friend. That sentence that you have highlighted was pertaining to my achievements prior to me farming. I'm well aware of the amount of games I've played. That wasn't a typo.

[Snorri1234]

I SEE NOTHING WRONG WITH FARMING! THOSE DAMN FILTHY NOOBS SHOULD'VE REALISED THEY WERE MESSING WITH THE MOST AWESOME PEOPLE THIS NON-RISKBASED SITE PRODUCED!

[King_Herpes]

Snorri. I find your ideas intriguing and I'd like to subscribe to your newsletter!

[hulmey]

Snorri. I find your ideas intriguing and I'd like to subscribe to your newsletter!

me to, but only if you type in CAPS BECUASE ITS SOOOOOOOO COOL

[KoE_Sirius]

:P Farming can be done while putting a happy face on it to make it less obvious. Such as: aa hem!, joining at the bottom of triples or quadruples freestyle games when team one is not online=farming. Or simply taking advantage of any relatively new player on a freestyle setting. Also farming. No cards chained triples and Quads, the usual compitition is cooks and cadets. They are esencially ?'s still pressing the Join A Game button joining the games that are on the top of the list. The only difference being they can now see team games since they are ranked. These are obviously just kids for the most part. Not taking full advantage of what the site truly offers. If you press the Join A Game button, the only thing you are going to see at the top of the list is Team games. Almost always Trips and Quads No cards. The one's that are on the top of the list will soon be filled with cooks and bars(cadets). These people do not understand the concept of no cards chained meaning: usually they attack for themselves, usually they never share forts or deployments. And the high ranked players know this. It's easy money. It's farming. There are plenty of high ranking players including some people who speak against farming that farm.

I'm sure they don't want to be called farmers. So I won't call them that. We all know Blitz is a great player. I've played him on many occasions. I wish he would speak up, because he could adhere to this and tell you I'm no pushover in a regular game. But if they do the things above, they have farmed. Considering that the same ?'s (That are now just barely ranked and are in few cases any wiser) that don't know how to really select safer games and just choose the games on top of the Join A Game List still are being "baited" as gdeangel so abruptly put it. Yes you can give them an extra credit point for allowing whoever to join and not necessarily aiming for ?'s. The fact is though that these players are smart enough to understand what I've written above. They are farming for that reason. Not every game ends up being a day at the farm like you have pointed out but like Scotland said, "Do you think they are hoping for a better team to join"? That was a rhetorical question for the people who don't understand his logic. The answer is no. Otherwise they would have made it a private game and invited high or equal ranks. Which he also does. He's been around long enough to know the difference.

Hulmey, my friend. That sentence that you have highlighted was pertaining to my achievements prior to me farming. I'm well aware of the amount of games I've played. That wasn't a typo.

So what are you trying to say ?

[hulmey]

oh my...here come another 4 pages...help, my eyes cant take it anymore!!

[King_Herpes]

Well, what I wanted to put in front of the post. Was this. No Risk Tycoon. There is nothing wrong with it whatsoever.

[BaldAdonis]

There is nothing wrong with it whatsoever.

If you can't see it, no one can help you. You'll just keep writing essay after essay that people don't read.

You're like that drunk guy who stands in front of a store and yells at the customers. Sure, the regular customers know to just ignore you, and some people even get a laugh out of riling you up and making you say a lot of ridiculous things (like we're doing right now, in this thread). But to the people who haven't been to the store yet, the ones coming there for the first time, you're a nuisance, and they'll probably just go spend their money elsewhere. You're bad for business. And I think you missed all the good things in the store - just got liquored up and went back to gibberish-ing.

[King_Herpes]

There is nothing wrong with it whatsoever.

If you can't see it, no one can help you. You'll just keep writing essay after essay that people don't read.

You're like that drunk guy who stands in front of a store and yells at the customers. Sure, the regular customers know to just ignore you, and some people even get a laugh out of riling you up and making you say a lot of ridiculous things (like we're doing right now, in this thread). But to the people who haven't been to the store yet, the ones coming there for the first time, you're a nuisance, and they'll probably just go spend their money elsewhere. You're bad for business. And I think you missed all the good things in the store - just got liquored up and went back to gibberish-ing.

Can anyone spare some change? *hiccup*!

[djt5483]

king herpes is my insperation, i tried joining his games and he dropped the ones i joined and foed me (twice) so i just said f*ck that guy im gonna try it

[ABSOLUTE_MASTER]

Many moons ago I was farmed by Wacicha, and then by JR.... ..... damned Phoenix Warlords...

[Blitzaholic]

Without getting into the middle of this argument ( I can see both sides: I personally find playing assassin freestyle games on waterloo against noobs to be a bit cheeky, but I'll give herpes credit in that he's willing to put those points on the line in some of george and scott's RT games), let me confess that I was farmed. Yes, when I was but a question mark, I hastily just jumped into a few games for the fun of it. One of them was a trips game on Middle Earth. My teammates were a fellow noob, and a private that deadbeated. The opponents were blitz and two longtime teammates. It wasn't pretty, but if nothing else, it sharpened my resolve to stay on CC and kick some ass in retribution.

+1 to this here ....

I'm with this guy ... when i first started .. I played with all friends from work ... once i got the hang of the game i went hunting for the best that i could play in team games ..... those names i still remember ...... and one person who was, at the time, number one on the scoreboard with his two seasoned pals on world map......

my two buds from work and myself timed it perfect and hopped right in to play the best of the best at the time....... not only did i learn a great deal....but they were pretty sad to lose all those points


135711 eye84free was top of the scoreboard during this game ..... and
235428 Blitzaholic had over 4000 points during this game which was unheard of at the time ....

so, I ask you ...... because i joined their games as a very low rank compared to them .... does that make them farmers?

no.... of course it doesn't ..... and if you look at the game chat from the second game ..... you can see i was honestly very excited to be able to test my skills against some of the best ....

So I applaud those that put public team games out there that are high ranked...... they are doing people like me a favor by giving me the ability to learn from folks who really have a fine tuned game ..... I would have never become the team player i am today if it wasn't for people like Blitzaholic and eye84free tossing out public games for me to join .... i would have sat with my fellow crappy peers gaining small points learning nothing .... instead of learning from some of the best and gaining HUGE point gains to get up the scoreboard !

I'd say there is nothing wrong with it one bit ....

thx RT, but I think when you joined the site like many others, you and them farmed me

[prismsaber]

Making public triples and quads games cannot be compared to noob farming unless the person in question foes all strong players who might challenge them in those games and/or drops all games where a decent opponent joins and then foes that same person. To argue otherwise is flawed logic and clearly reaching.