NON FARMERS GUILD - Top 101

[FarangDemon]

Thanks for coming up with those examples, now I see that 100 is definitely not enough opponents to guarantee deflation. I didn't run any equations prior to that posting, but will work it out and come back.

I really like the idea of a RR amnesty because the system would gain more legitimacy by including more players. And if we know that they are sufficiently "deflated", i see no need to exclude someone because they used to be a farmer. Of course any policy would have to prevent the potential for abuse.

[niMic]

I can't tell if I'm a farmer or not..

I do find it amusing how 'map specialization' is the new big thing, though. I like to play World 2.1, it's my favourite map, and it's hardly a map someone familiar to Risk won't understand, but I suppose playing it more than any other map (just passed Classic) is farming?

I don't like proper farmers more than anyone else (the Max-type, despise them), but some people do take it a little far I think.

[dhallmeyer]

I believe (and yes, I'm fairly new around here, but these are my obsevartions and feel free to correct me if I'm wrong) the difference between farming and specialization is this: farmers specialize in playing mainly new recruits, who have a higher probability of deadbeating; specializers play mainly on a few similar maps and develop strategies to win based on those maps, regardless of their opponents.

that about right?

[The Neon Peon]

I believe (and yes, I'm fairly new around here, but these are my obsevartions and feel free to correct me if I'm wrong) the difference between farming and specialization is this: farmers specialize in playing mainly new recruits, who have a higher probability of deadbeating; specializers play mainly on a few similar maps and develop strategies to win based on those maps, regardless of their opponents.

that about right?

I would say "no"

A farmer plays those with less experience. Such as joining games with cooks since you know you will beat them. King H is also a farmer in that he plays people without clickies in private games on a map where they are necessary.

[porkenbeans]

Thanks for coming up with those examples, now I see that 100 is definitely not enough opponents to guarantee deflation. I didn't run any equations prior to that posting, but will work it out and come back.

I really like the idea of a RR amnesty because the system would gain more legitimacy by including more players. And if we know that they are sufficiently "deflated", i see no need to exclude someone because they used to be a farmer. Of course any policy would have to prevent the potential for abuse.

I do agree with your attitude of forgiveness. They should indeed be forgiven for stealing the candy, but they should have to return the ill gotten spoils. Like maybe a certain % of their points, in direct correlation to their RR, would work. This way they would most likely loose a rank or 2, but they would not have to go all the way back to cook. I would go along with the idea of amnesty, and I do not want to punish them per say. I would welcome them back from the dark side with open arms.
I can not wait to see what the new changes will be. I am truly excited at the prospect of getting to compete on an even playing field. I hope that some kind of measures will also be taken to thwart multies. It would be nice to again play more multi-player games.
On one more note about Max. I do not want to gloat in this open forum. But, I must say, This is a very good day at CC. There is, I believe, a light beginning to form at the end of the tunnel. And a brighter day is just ahead for all CC fans.

[Aradhus]

I don't think I've come across one multi in the 400 games I've played, mostly 6,7,8 player...(I personally believe that you have exhibited paranoid, delusional behaviour, and most likely being beaten repeatedly in multiple player games, you used this lame excuse to not play those games so often as you keep losing)

I find the title of this topic to be disgusting. Pork is implying that any player in the first page of the scoreboard that does not have EQ status is a farmer.

While, amongst other things, still not showing any understanding of RR.

I have to respond to a message, but I will return with more to say.

[PepperJack]

I have to respond to a message, but I will return with more to say.

If this was intentional.....

BAAA-ZIIIIINNNNNGG!!!!

[porkenbeans]

I believe (and yes, I'm fairly new around here, but these are my obsevartions and feel free to correct me if I'm wrong) the difference between farming and specialization is this: farmers specialize in playing mainly new recruits, who have a higher probability of deadbeating; specializers play mainly on a few similar maps and develop strategies to win based on those maps, regardless of their opponents.

that about right?

That is the way that I see it.

[FabledIntegral]

I don't give a flying f*ck about improving my RR. Chip also apparently doesn't give a shit about your list because he never intended it for this use nor for "weeding out farmers," rather he made it according to him for a specific person who had a specific request they wanted to figure out.

You're just another dipshit in these forums that want to pat themselves on the back - "noob farmers" do it in the way of gaining as many points, you do it because you yourself are an EQ and think you're better than the others. You're all the fucking same.

I never commented on the merits of the list, come on people I am writing in plain English. My problem is having words put into my mouth that are completely incorrect and subsequent misrepresentation of Map Rank. Here you are doing the same thing except with a blizzard of expletives which may be considered 'cool' at University but the importance of being polite is a necessary lesson to learn before graduation. Some of your posts contain excellent content but are not taken seriously because you've buried the content in unnecessary swear words and general name-calling. This doesn't demand the attention that the content deserves, rather speaks more about your ability to maintain a civil debate.No doubt you will come up with a defensive reply to this perhaps a few swear words here and there but it's your call as to how your posts are received.

Having said all that this is not the real world and it is very easy on the internet to adopt an attitude you would not normally use in real life. Perhaps that is the case but again my initial point is that I was concerned at having my name misused as an alternative to constructing a decent argument. The list itself I have zero problem with.

And explain to me whereas I put words in your mouth? I merely commented on the fact you already stated this wasn't the intention for your list. Want me to quote you?

The certain obscenities have come from a plethora of pork's posts telling me virtually to not be jealous and just try to improve my RR myself. Quite simply - as stated around 5x, I don't care about being on this list, I don't even play CC anymore, and I'm constantly dropping points due to dicking around. I've dropped around 500 points since I've stopped playing and coming back to play one game and deadbeating (whether due to boredom or forgetting to come back onto this site).

I have no problem using such words, which originally weren't used, only after someone continually disregards my posts and instead uses a mocking attitude. Considering in the "real world," you're continually bombarded with both expletives and mockery, including in heated debates I've been in, I don't really need an etiquette lesson from you. I also never said you had a problem with the list - on the contrary I said you seemed to not care about the list existing or not. So I suggest you reread the post.

[porkenbeans]

I don't think I've come across one multi in the 400 games I've played, mostly 6,7,8 player...(I personally believe that you have exhibited paranoid, delusional behaviour, and most likely being beaten repeatedly in multiple player games, you used this lame excuse to not play those games so often as you keep losing)

I find the title of this topic to be disgusting. Pork is implying that any player in the first page of the scoreboard that does not have EQ status is a farmer.

While, amongst other things, still not showing any understanding of RR.

I have to respond to a message, but I will return with more to say.

You are off topic, but I will just say this in response. Multies are very good at their trade. Well some are that is. My point is this, You have probably been cheated, and just dont know it. We know that there are multies, as you see another one getting busted every day. Most of those are the ones that are not very good at it. The smart ones are much harder to catch. And they do indeed rake in a lot of points from from folks.
Now back to the topic. Please do not try to put words in my mouth. I am very capable of speaking for myself. For the record, I do not think that those that are NOT E.Q.s' are Noob farmers. Just that E.Qs.' are NOT Noob Farmers. The next edition of this list will include more players as I have decided to lower the threshold for E.Q. status. It is now set at 0.80. I would like to solicit views on where the community thinks it should be. Personally, I think that it should be more around the neighborhood of 0.60. While compiling this list I have had the chance to study all the top players. There are, in my opinion, many more that should be included with these excellent players.
Yesterday, I spent the better part of the day compiling this list. It was very exhausting. I have therefor decided to enlist some help with the next edition. If I could get some volunteers, We could do it in an hour or so. And, it would be more accurate as a result, because we could put in some redundancy to compensate for players bouncing on the scoreboard. I am ready and willing to do this right away. And, I will be lowering the threshold, so that the list contains all the top players that are NOT Noob Farmers. Anyone interested in helping out on this project can respond here or by pm.

[Aradhus]

You're a liar. You stated several times that anyone that does not have an Eq rr is a farmer, in that other clueless topic. I think you might have also in this topic, but I ain't looking through your posts, they are depressing enough reading the first time around.

You accused me of being a farmer in your other topic, while my RR was 0.01 below Eq status.

This topic, scoreboard is idiotic, and is not interesting at all. Its like making a scoreboard whereby the credentials are: For every game that you win and recieve exactly 32 points you get one point on the scoreboard. The player that has won the most games recieving 32 points tops the list, and you deem them to be a great player. Ignoring the fact that their actual score on the real leaderboard is 1100.

(obviously the real leaderboard has flaws itself)

Taking two pieces of information, when there are actually dozens of stats that could be used to determine who is actually a good player, is not only pointless, its also insulting to some players who actually are good(better than lots on your stupid list) but don't qualify because they don't specialise, play private games and aren't snobs.

[KoE_Sirius]

play private games and aren't snobs.

Sorry I do not understand..They have a private owners club and are not open to the public and they aren't snobs ?
I think you need to go over these figures.
I dropped a few ranks and the invites arent coming thick and fast. However number 1 farmer invited me into a game.I declined of course..I am freerange.

[Aradhus]

Don't specialise, [or] play private games and aren't snobs...

How hard is that to figure out..

[porkenbeans]

You're a liar. You stated several times that anyone that does not have an Eq rr is a farmer, in that other clueless topic. I think you might have also in this topic, but I ain't looking through your posts, they are depressing enough reading the first time around.

You accused me of being a farmer in your other topic, while my RR was 0.01 below Eq status.

This topic, scoreboard is idiotic, and is not interesting at all. Its like making a scoreboard whereby the credentials are: For every game that you win and recieve exactly 32 points you get one point on the scoreboard. The player that has won the most games recieving 32 points tops the list, and you deem them to be a great player. Ignoring the fact that their actual score on the real leaderboard is 1100.

(obviously the real leaderboard has flaws itself)

Taking two pieces of information, when there are actually dozens of stats that could be used to determine who is actually a good player, is not only pointless, its also insulting to some players who actually are good(better than lots on your stupid list) but don't qualify because they don't specialise, play private games and aren't snobs.

I am Not a liar. You apparently have low comprehension skills when it comes to reading. I find it odd that you would spend so much time in a thread that does not interest you.

[FabledIntegral]

I don't think I've come across one multi in the 400 games I've played, mostly 6,7,8 player...(I personally believe that you have exhibited paranoid, delusional behaviour, and most likely being beaten repeatedly in multiple player games, you used this lame excuse to not play those games so often as you keep losing)

I find the title of this topic to be disgusting. Pork is implying that any player in the first page of the scoreboard that does not have EQ status is a farmer.

While, amongst other things, still not showing any understanding of RR.

I have to respond to a message, but I will return with more to say.

You are off topic, but I will just say this in response. Multies are very good at their trade. Well some are that is. My point is this, You have probably been cheated, and just dont know it. We know that there are multies, as you see another one getting busted every day. Most of those are the ones that are not very good at it. The smart ones are much harder to catch. And they do indeed rake in a lot of points from from folks.
Now back to the topic. Please do not try to put words in my mouth. I am very capable of speaking for myself. For the record, I do not think that those that are NOT E.Q.s' are Noob farmers. Just that E.Qs.' are NOT Noob Farmers. The next edition of this list will include more players as I have decided to lower the threshold for E.Q. status. It is now set at 0.80. I would like to solicit views on where the community thinks it should be. Personally, I think that it should be more around the neighborhood of 0.60. While compiling this list I have had the chance to study all the top players. There are, in my opinion, many more that should be included with these excellent players.
Yesterday, I spent the better part of the day compiling this list. It was very exhausting. I have therefor decided to enlist some help with the next edition. If I could get some volunteers, We could do it in an hour or so. And, it would be more accurate as a result, because we could put in some redundancy to compensate for players bouncing on the scoreboard. I am ready and willing to do this right away. And, I will be lowering the threshold, so that the list contains all the top players that are NOT Noob Farmers. Anyone interested in helping out on this project can respond here or by pm.

Bleh... you're missing the point. No cutoff would be accurate because of the inherent flaws in the system. The exact counter argument to Fruity's post would be what has already happened - people play 500 games against people higher than them, get Brawler status, then noob farm their way to the top, or do it the exact same way other players have done it, yet because they played those 500 games previously (for whatever reasons), they are EQ. And that's what happened.

It's basically rewarding players that were too stupid to originally catch on to strategy. Examples could be DAT_WAT_SHE_SAID, Bruceswar, and Jarrett. All players know what they are doing in freestyle escalating games, as I was in the same style of games they were. They played tons of games which would up their RR status. Then when the rest of the higher ranks left - Rashid, Scott, Prank (somewhat, he still lingers), KingofGods, Skillerman, Fantasian, Gigadakh (sort of, he was better than them but not really that great), look what happens. In a few games, of which their RR would be .4 or .5, they shoot up the ranks - in the exact same manner all these other high ranks did. Thus the actual points they gained to get to the high ranks would be by your definition "noob farming." Yet the plethora of games played in the past keeps them at EQ, because they shot up in the ranks, as Jarrett previously said, in a few weeks, EVEN if they shot up for the exact same reason all the previously high ranks did, except not quite as skilled. What differentiates these players from the top ranks? They are not quite as skilled with a higher RR. Yeah - brilliant way at trying to portray the "truly skilled that don't farm."

[JOHNNYROCKET24]

These are the top 101 players at CC, that maintain a Relative Rank of Equlitaran.
From the 250 players on the first page of the leaderboard, only 100 players have made the cut.
I will state clearly so that there will be no misunderstandings. This took me about 3 hours to complete. And, some names may have jumped position while I was busy checking stats. If you believe that your name may have been overlooked or misspelled, please contact me via this thread or pm.

Gen. Velvecarrots
1.) Gen. Thomas.Paine
2.) Gen. Seulessliathan
3.) Gen. Fruitcake
4.) Gen. jarrett155
5.) Gen. Gwaahjo
6.) Gen. timmy
7.) Brig. joecoolfrog ................... Brig. comic boy
8.) Brig. Beadle
9.) Brig. MERZ
10.) Brig. Ramned
11.) Brig. Mikiesdios
12.) Brig. hatchman
13.) Brig. bamage
14.) Brig. Bigrooo4601
15.) Brig. RL_Orange
16.) Brig. Forefall
17.) Brig. Superrag
18.) Brig. Steve066
19.) Brig. chariot of fire
20.) Brig. clearwater fla
21.) Brig. Torter_of_worlds
22.) Col. hundredandlaces
23.) Col. Jonathancc37
24.) Col. Tyche73
25.) Col. JBoy
26.) Col. Incandenza
27.) Col. Firstholliday
28.) Col. agonzos
29.) Col. Rishidjelzin
30.) Col. Jalen45
31.) Cpt. CD_Tester
32.) Col. crissipos
33.) Col. farangDemon
34.) Col. White Moose
35.) Col. tsioumiou
36.) Col. ahunda
37.) Col. Iccanot Nabrus
38.) Col. Justcallmestupid
39.) Col. hambone
40.) Col. Jasper_be
41.) Col. lardass76
42.) Col. KuchTheWiser ..........................Col. demonfork
43.) Col. bob 3603
44.) Col. millwood
45.) Maj. Austex
46.) Col.Tisha
47.) Col. Lord hauptman
48.) Col. Khazalid
49.) Col. Karlo Veliki
50.) Col. JF_520
51.) Col. DAT_WHAT_SHE_SAID
52.) Col. woody123
53.) Col. awesome T-baby
54.) Col. sam02
55.) Col. aspalm
56.) Col. Tattoo
57.) Col. BRADDY
58.) Col. majiiiiiic
59.) Col. assassin07
60.) Col. dbyron
61.) Col. jiminski
62.) Col. JuliusCaesar
63.) Col. gannable
64.) Col. ZigTar
65.) Col. imcjb
66.) Col. Ender07
67.) Col. Deadpool
68.) Col. ZionT
69.) Col. hiddeous man
70.) Col. jpeter15
71.) Col. subprime
72.) Col. zdrakias
73.) Col. drooppy
74.) Lt. CubColtPacer
75.) Col. Mepps
76.) Col. Mcnorm
77.) Col. daves battle
78.) Col. MOZES
79.) Col. Anomander
80.) Col. jmscoelho
81.) Col. thezepman
82.) Col. Bruceswar
83.) Col. Coach Courbis
84.) Col. igotaished
85.) Col. Sandipants
86.) Col. ericv
87.) Col. vsezgin
88.) Col. Rider Pride
89.) Col. casper
90.) Col. BeepBeepImaJeep
91.) Col. Khushhal
92.) Col. Dekloren
93.) Col. Serpentor
94.) Col. Jeepee
95.) Col. Moneymatt
96.) Col. OTE
97.) Col. atshyong
98.) Maj .AMIRAM
99.) Maj . ddgrimes
100.) Maj. PopeBenXVI
101.) Maj . Herakilla This was to be top 100, but I saw this name at the cut off point. And said, What the hell, 101 sounds better anyways.

I actually thought it was funny that you wasted 3 hours on this. This is almost as funny as Blitz keeping track of how many days a player kept his number 1 spot and the largest margin between 1st and 2nd place and how long.

[JOHNNYROCKET24]

7.) Brig. joecoolfrog ................... Brig. comic boy

why is this on the same line? They claim to be father/son. You indicating something different?

[Bruceswar]

7.) Brig. joecoolfrog ................... Brig. comic boy

why is this on the same line? They claim to be father/son. You indicating something different?

I think he left one off... so instead of re numbering all the people he just added him to the outside. He did that 2 times that I see

[porkenbeans]

7.) Brig. joecoolfrog ................... Brig. comic boy

why is this on the same line? They claim to be father/son. You indicating something different?

Hey JR, No I did not know that they were related. I had to add comic boy after posting. I just put him next to the closest place in correlation to his score.

[KoE_Sirius]

7.) Brig. joecoolfrog ................... Brig. comic boy

why is this on the same line? They claim to be father/son. You indicating something different?

Hey JR, No I did not know that they were related. I had to add comic boy after posting. I just put him next to the closest place in correlation to his score.

Thats amazing how close they are dont you think.

[porkenbeans]

7.) Brig. joecoolfrog ................... Brig. comic boy

why is this on the same line? They claim to be father/son. You indicating something different?

Hey JR, No I did not know that they were related. I had to add comic boy after posting. I just put him next to the closest place in correlation to his score.

Thats amazing how close they are dont you think.

Like father, like son ?

[FarangDemon]

, is not only pointless, its also insulting to some players who actually are good(better than lots on your stupid list) but don't qualify because they don't specialise, play private games and aren't snobs.

I'm assuming that playing private games and being a snob here refers to peers playing each other.

Here is the big question, again: Do you want a scoring system that shows that one person can beat another person or are you happy with a system where you can get ahead by playing only low ranks?

Again, I really can't believe you are seriously in favor of changing the current system when you seem fundamentally opposed to a system that encourages players to play their peers. You can call it "snobbery", but is a championship soccer match snobbery? Was Muhammed Ali against George Foreman snobbery? No. It was an exciting, interesting match up.

If players playing their peers and excluding the very low ranked is "snobbery" and bad, then you could never be in favor of a ratings system that would indicate whether a player with 4000 points would tend to beat another player with 2500 points.

If the 2500 point player plays his peers a lot and is better, he may move up. If the 4000 point player plays his peers a lot and is worse, he moves down. If they were ever interested in playing each other, we would know for sure, but as long as each tends to play their peers, we will get a good idea of how good they are relative to one another. This is assuming that if A>B and B>C then A>C, which is not completely true but an assumption we have to accept to stay practical.

[FarangDemon]

Thus the actual points they gained to get to the high ranks would be by your definition "noob farming." Yet the plethora of games played in the past keeps them at EQ, because they shot up in the ranks, as Jarrett previously said, in a few weeks,

You hit the nail on the head. Any system would need to address this loophole.

This is great feedback, now can anyone take it to the next level and suggest how a system could close this loophole AND give farmers a new chance (i.e. not exclude them because of their past games).

One thing to note: if those guys did noob farm, their RR will be lower if Chipv ever implements geometric mean instead of arithmetic mean to calculate mean RR. Like if you play a guy that is 2/3 your score and a guy 3/2 your score, your geometric mean opponent was 1. The arithmetic mean would be (0.66 + 1.5) / 2 = 1.08

[porkenbeans]

Thus the actual points they gained to get to the high ranks would be by your definition "noob farming." Yet the plethora of games played in the past keeps them at EQ, because they shot up in the ranks, as Jarrett previously said, in a few weeks,

You hit the nail on the head. Any system would need to address this loophole.

This is great feedback, now can anyone take it to the next level and suggest how a system could close this loophole AND give farmers a new chance (i.e. not exclude them because of their past games).

One thing to note: if those guys did noob farm, their RR will be lower if Chipv ever implements geometric mean instead of arithmetic mean to calculate mean RR. Like if you play a guy that is 2/3 your score and a guy 3/2 your score, your geometric mean opponent was 1. The arithmetic mean would be (0.66 + 1.5) / 2 = 1.08

What do think about my idea demon. 14 posts previous. ooops Im sorry its on the last page. viewtopic.php?f=6&t=73613&start=15#p1771891

[a.sub]

i think u forget me
well done mate, i hope to get up there on day