Blatant farming continues unabated

[JimRocky]

I had made a suggestion that would allow farmers to have their fun and allow others who wished to play a game with a true test of skills to both be happy. Two separate scoreboards. The current system and a Ladder ranking. The Ladder games would be structured so that farming would be eliminated. It was a complicated plan and I didn't spend a lot of time pontificating on it because there seemed to be a lack of interest. Not to mention that it would likely be difficult, and require a lot of work to set up; so I felt like there wasn't much chance of it being implemented. I still say it's a great idea though. If someone could work on it, little by little, it would be worth the effort in the end. Nearly everyone would be happy.

[Dodo C. Snotts]

Sorry folks, but this seems to just be a case of people getting jealous and accusing those who win of cheating... happens in any game. If that first game was full of players "throwing the game" by deadbeating... maybe there would be some validity to this. As it is, it just seems to be whining, IMHO.

[n00blet]

You are just plain incorrect. How many times must I state my position before it is made clear. There is nothing wrong with playing any rank that you wish.
IT IS THE SYSTEMATIC PURSUIT OF JUST NEWBIES, that I am opposed to.
If a high rank wants to try out a new board against a newbie, Well that may just be a good strategy. Nothing wrong here. But when he sends out 200 pms to newbies to play on the same board, well that is another story. Do you understand what I am trying to say ?

Obviously, the "systematic pursuit of just newbies" is wrong. I believe I addressed that...

Lack has said that n00b farming is not OK.

Oh yeah...

And Oh, by the way, Map Rank does indeed show this kind of abuse very, very, clearly. Tell me it doesn't, and I will tell you that you are full of shit.

No need to get hostile. Just because I harbor a different (and correct.....) opinion doesn't mean you need to get angry.

Oh, and it doesn't.

nooblet, you are right, it is not an end all be all.

i can tell you are an intelligent poster and have actually thought about the scoring system problem, instead of writing it off as unsolvable a priorio as so many have done.

I believe if you took the time to read some of the suggestions, especially Gimil's and Ramned's, you would see that it can be quite easily done.

Ramned's

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=73494

Gimil's

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=73618

I have seen Gimil's before, and others suggesting splitting the scoreboard, but as I said, having an explicit cutoff point would not work terribly well. I can see the benefits of it, and having the cutoff around 1400 as he suggested would probably be best if it were to work at all, but I just couldn't see it happening. Restrict who people can and cannot play based arbitrarily on points and there will be riots

Ramned's, however, I feel could work far better. The current scoring system is meant to accomplish the same thing I believe, by awarding less points if a high rank beats a low rank. If this was taken to the next level, ala Ramned, I think it could be quite beneficial.

[BaldAdonis]

Who cares? This subject is a bore.

Exactly. We all know these players are garbage, if they can only get it up by beating stripers, then let them have at it. They're not any better than them tactically, so they really are playing on par with their contemporaries. The point system is now a measure of how well you can abuse it. Not fair to the people who want points to represent how well they play, but that's just too bad. Those people will have to continue enjoying the games and not worrying about points. What a tragedy.

[Gold Knight]

I just cant believe this many people are this passionate about theirs and others rank on an online scoreboard. Here's an idea: everytime you see a game where someone is getting farmed, click the X on the top right of your screen. Amazingly, it goes away! Then try going outside, and search for that scoreboard that ranks the lives of people. That's the scoreboard that matters.

What's really sad is at least the farmers are wasting their time in doing what this site was actually created for, PLAYING THE GAME. I am in no way a supporter for farmers, but is downright pathetic to see how much time people waste arguing over it when there is never going to be a way to eliminate it without getting rid of the rank system altogether.

[porkenbeans]

You are just plain incorrect. How many times must I state my position before it is made clear. There is nothing wrong with playing any rank that you wish.
IT IS THE SYSTEMATIC PURSUIT OF JUST NEWBIES, that I am opposed to.
If a high rank wants to try out a new board against a newbie, Well that may just be a good strategy. Nothing wrong here. But when he sends out 200 pms to newbies to play on the same board, well that is another story. Do you understand what I am trying to say ?

Obviously, the "systematic pursuit of just newbies" is wrong. I believe I addressed that...

Lack has said that n00b farming is not OK.

Oh yeah...

And Oh, by the way, Map Rank does indeed show this kind of abuse very, very, clearly. Tell me it doesn't, and I will tell you that you are full of shit.

No need to get hostile. Just because I harbor a different (and correct.....) opinion doesn't mean you need to get angry.

Oh, and it doesn't.

nooblet, you are right, it is not an end all be all.

i can tell you are an intelligent poster and have actually thought about the scoring system problem, instead of writing it off as unsolvable a priorio as so many have done.

I believe if you took the time to read some of the suggestions, especially Gimil's and Ramned's, you would see that it can be quite easily done.

Ramned's

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=73494

Gimil's

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=73618

I have seen Gimil's before, and others suggesting splitting the scoreboard, but as I said, having an explicit cutoff point would not work terribly well. I can see the benefits of it, and having the cutoff around 1400 as he suggested would probably be best if it were to work at all, but I just couldn't see it happening. Restrict who people can and cannot play based arbitrarily on points and there will be riots

Ramned's, however, I feel could work far better. The current scoring system is meant to accomplish the same thing I believe, by awarding less points if a high rank beats a low rank. If this was taken to the next level, ala Ramned, I think it could be quite beneficial.

You are full of shit.
R.R. clearly shows the average rank of your opponents. If you started all of your games as public games, your R.R. will not be very high. I admit that. But if your R.R. is very low, Like way under what it should be, Newbie targeting can be determined. I see people putting up examples of games, trying to show examples of Newbie farming. This is not the correct way to classify someone as a Newbie farmer. That example is but one stalk of corn, You would need to show a whole field of corn, and if that field does not have any other different crops other than that corn, NOW you have demonstrated the existence of a newbie farmer. A couple of stalks of corn in a field of many varieties of crops, Does NOT equate to Newbie Farming. In other words, you need to look at the whole field of games that a player has played. You would have to check every game the player has played.
Well, Map Rank has done this for us. The stats do not lie. Chips classifications and cut of points need some rethinking. But the numbers are correct. There can be no dispute of this fact. The only debate in my opinion is, where to make the cutoff points between the classifications of N.F., P.H., E.Q., BR, and GL. I would suggest that these designations be altered a bit as well. In particular the Point Hoarder designation. It does not seem quite applicable. Lacking, or Needs Improvement would be more inline. I would change Noob Farmer altogether to something like Bully. But all of that is just the window dressing. The most important thing is, to determine the cut of points. E.Q. for example should be lowered. How far can easily be studied and debated.
I had the chance of studying the top 250 players when I put together the E.Q. leaderboard. I received many pms' by those that did not make the list. They all spoke of the fact that they were not farmers. Upon further analysis of their game history, I agree completely with their position. The E.Q. cut off point definitely needs to be lowered from 0.800 to something like 0.600. But that actual number can be debated. What can NOT be debated is, the stats themselves. They are as true as rain.

[prismsaber]

I just cant believe this many people are this passionate about theirs and others rank on an online scoreboard. Here's an idea: everytime you see a game where someone is getting farmed, click the X on the top right of your screen. Amazingly, it goes away! Then try going outside, and search for that scoreboard that ranks the lives of people. That's the scoreboard that matters.

What's really sad is at least the farmers are wasting their time in doing what this site was actually created for, PLAYING THE GAME. I am in no way a supporter for farmers, but is downright pathetic to see how much time people waste arguing over it when there is never going to be a way to eliminate it without getting rid of the rank system altogether.

Guess what - people who are passionate about what they do tend to be the best in their fields. If one can be passionate at a game then the transitive property comes into play and chances are they are passionate about many things in life and therefore come upon more success than those who go with the flow. The farmers themselves are very passionate as they have shown they will do what it takes to gain the most points.

With all due respect, these "get a life" type posts are irritating and don't contribute at all to the topic. I suggest you follow your own advice and get the f*ck outside if people being passionate enough about their hobby to discuss the issues pertaining to it on an online forum is enough to rile you up to post about it.

[porkenbeans]

I just cant believe this many people are this passionate about theirs and others rank on an online scoreboard. Here's an idea: everytime you see a game where someone is getting farmed, click the X on the top right of your screen. Amazingly, it goes away! Then try going outside, and search for that scoreboard that ranks the lives of people. That's the scoreboard that matters.

What's really sad is at least the farmers are wasting their time in doing what this site was actually created for, PLAYING THE GAME. I am in no way a supporter for farmers, but is downright pathetic to see how much time people waste arguing over it when there is never going to be a way to eliminate it without getting rid of the rank system altogether.

What you like to do in your spare time is your own business. You may love to hit little white balls around a golf course or sail your boat. It is no better or worse than someone that plays an online game. To each his own, brother.

[Jeff Hardy]

Who cares? This subject is a bore.

Exactly. We all know these players are garbage, if they can only get it up by beating stripers, then let them have at it. They're not any better than them tactically, so they really are playing on par with their contemporaries. The point system is now a measure of how well you can abuse it. Not fair to the people who want points to represent how well they play, but that's just too bad. Those people will have to continue enjoying the games and not worrying about points. What a tragedy.

Game 3764067

2008-12-25 04:27:07 - King_Herpes, lanyards, Jeff Hardy won the game
2008-12-25 04:27:07 - waseemalim loses 10 points
2008-12-25 04:27:07 - BaldAdonis loses 10 points
2008-12-25 04:27:07 - spicyblue loses 10 points
2008-12-25 04:27:07 - King_Herpes gains 10 points
2008-12-25 04:27:07 - lanyards gains 10 points
2008-12-25 04:27:07 - Jeff Hardy gains 10 points

f*ck the noob-farmers

[porkenbeans]

Who cares? This subject is a bore.

Exactly. We all know these players are garbage, if they can only get it up by beating stripers, then let them have at it. They're not any better than them tactically, so they really are playing on par with their contemporaries. The point system is now a measure of how well you can abuse it. Not fair to the people who want points to represent how well they play, but that's just too bad. Those people will have to continue enjoying the games and not worrying about points. What a tragedy.

Game 3764067

2008-12-25 04:27:07 - King_Herpes, lanyards, Jeff Hardy won the game
2008-12-25 04:27:07 - waseemalim loses 10 points
2008-12-25 04:27:07 - BaldAdonis loses 10 points
2008-12-25 04:27:07 - spicyblue loses 10 points
2008-12-25 04:27:07 - King_Herpes gains 10 points
2008-12-25 04:27:07 - lanyards gains 10 points
2008-12-25 04:27:07 - Jeff Hardy gains 10 points

f*ck the noob-farmers

What in the hell does you winning a game have to do with this topic ?

[Jeff Hardy]

Who cares? This subject is a bore.

Exactly. We all know these players are garbage, if they can only get it up by beating stripers, then let them have at it. They're not any better than them tactically, so they really are playing on par with their contemporaries. The point system is now a measure of how well you can abuse it. Not fair to the people who want points to represent how well they play, but that's just too bad. Those people will have to continue enjoying the games and not worrying about points. What a tragedy.

Game 3764067

2008-12-25 04:27:07 - King_Herpes, lanyards, Jeff Hardy won the game
2008-12-25 04:27:07 - waseemalim loses 10 points
2008-12-25 04:27:07 - BaldAdonis loses 10 points
2008-12-25 04:27:07 - spicyblue loses 10 points
2008-12-25 04:27:07 - King_Herpes gains 10 points
2008-12-25 04:27:07 - lanyards gains 10 points
2008-12-25 04:27:07 - Jeff Hardy gains 10 points

f*ck the noob-farmers

What in the hell does you winning a game have to do with this topic ?

my friends and me beat BaldAdonis fair and square on settings we wouldnt normally play yet he still complains

ive said this before but ill say it again, it isnt up to you to decide who is a good player and who isnt

[porkenbeans]

Who cares? This subject is a bore.

Exactly. We all know these players are garbage, if they can only get it up by beating stripers, then let them have at it. They're not any better than them tactically, so they really are playing on par with their contemporaries. The point system is now a measure of how well you can abuse it. Not fair to the people who want points to represent how well they play, but that's just too bad. Those people will have to continue enjoying the games and not worrying about points. What a tragedy.

Game 3764067

2008-12-25 04:27:07 - King_Herpes, lanyards, Jeff Hardy won the game
2008-12-25 04:27:07 - waseemalim loses 10 points
2008-12-25 04:27:07 - BaldAdonis loses 10 points
2008-12-25 04:27:07 - spicyblue loses 10 points
2008-12-25 04:27:07 - King_Herpes gains 10 points
2008-12-25 04:27:07 - lanyards gains 10 points
2008-12-25 04:27:07 - Jeff Hardy gains 10 points

f*ck the noob-farmers

What in the hell does you winning a game have to do with this topic ?

my friends and me beat BaldAdonis fair and square on settings we wouldnt normally play yet he still complains

ive said this before but ill say it again, it isnt up to you to decide who is a good player and who isnt

You winning a game does not prove or disprove that. It does prove, however, that you are a troll. An ignorant one at that.

[Jeff Hardy]

... you are a troll. An ignorant one at that.

[BaldAdonis]

Game 3764067

2008-12-25 04:27:07 - King_Herpes, lanyards, Jeff Hardy won the game
2008-12-25 04:27:07 - waseemalim loses 10 points
2008-12-25 04:27:07 - BaldAdonis loses 10 points
2008-12-25 04:27:07 - spicyblue loses 10 points
2008-12-25 04:27:07 - King_Herpes gains 10 points
2008-12-25 04:27:07 - lanyards gains 10 points
2008-12-25 04:27:07 - Jeff Hardy gains 10 points

f*ck the noob-farmers

Congratulations on having spicyblue join our team and give you the game. Would it surprise anyone if lanyards used his usual tricks and PM'd him to automatically join, knowing he'd never played the map before? I'm not insinuating that it happened, but it's happened before. As usual, you played pretty poorly, and you wouldn't be able to repeat a victory if I had a proper team (or 1v1, or in any other setting).

ive said this before but ill say it again, it isnt up to you to decide who is a good player and who isnt

I beg to differ. I'm a good player, while you (and KingHerpes and lanyards) are not. Easy as that.

[porkenbeans]

Game 3764067

2008-12-25 04:27:07 - King_Herpes, lanyards, Jeff Hardy won the game
2008-12-25 04:27:07 - waseemalim loses 10 points
2008-12-25 04:27:07 - BaldAdonis loses 10 points
2008-12-25 04:27:07 - spicyblue loses 10 points
2008-12-25 04:27:07 - King_Herpes gains 10 points
2008-12-25 04:27:07 - lanyards gains 10 points
2008-12-25 04:27:07 - Jeff Hardy gains 10 points

f*ck the noob-farmers

Congratulations on having spicyblue join our team and give you the game. Would it surprise anyone if lanyards used his usual tricks and PM'd him to automatically join, knowing he'd never played the map before? I'm not insinuating that it happened, but it's happened before. As usual, you played pretty poorly, and you wouldn't be able to repeat a victory if I had a proper team (or 1v1, or in any other setting).

ive said this before but ill say it again, it isnt up to you to decide who is a good player and who isnt

I beg to differ. I'm a good player, while you (and KingHerpes and lanyards) are not. Easy as that.

I would be very happy to team with you B.A. Anytime, any map.

[clapper011]

guys..keep this clean...no need for the all out shouting match of whos a better player. keep it on subject and stop wondering off..this is a thread about farming..... not about whos better.

[porkenbeans]

Thank You Clapper.

[jnd94]

guys..keep this clean...no need for the all out shouting match of whos a better player. keep it on subject and stop wondering off..this is a thread about farming..... not about whos better.

You know I read all posts out loud based on the inflection that I see, and I definately did shout those last few posts.

[porkenbeans]

guys..keep this clean...no need for the all out shouting match of whos a better player. keep it on subject and stop wondering off..this is a thread about farming..... not about whos better.

You know I read all posts out loud based on the inflection that I see, and I definately did shout those last few posts.

Wrong thread, brother. hehehe. This is your 1st. post.

[n00blet]

You are full of shit.

You were so close....I mean, you were this close to making a post that could almost be mistaken for intelligent. I mean, look at it:

R.R. clearly shows the average rank of your opponents. If you started all of your games as public games, your R.R. will not be very high. I admit that. But if your R.R. is very low, Like way under what it should be, Newbie targeting can be determined. I see people putting up examples of games, trying to show examples of Newbie farming. This is not the correct way to classify someone as a Newbie farmer. That example is but one stalk of corn, You would need to show a whole field of corn, and if that field does not have any other different crops other than that corn, NOW you have demonstrated the existence of a newbie farmer. A couple of stalks of corn in a field of many varieties of crops, Does NOT equate to Newbie Farming. In other words, you need to look at the whole field of games that a player has played. You would have to check every game the player has played.
Well, Map Rank has done this for us. The stats do not lie. Chips classifications and cut of points need some rethinking. But the numbers are correct. There can be no dispute of this fact. The only debate in my opinion is, where to make the cutoff points between the classifications of N.F., P.H., E.Q., BR, and GL. I would suggest that these designations be altered a bit as well. In particular the Point Hoarder designation. It does not seem quite applicable. Lacking, or Needs Improvement would be more inline. I would change Noob Farmer altogether to something like Bully. But all of that is just the window dressing. The most important thing is, to determine the cut of points. E.Q. for example should be lowered. How far can easily be studied and debated.
I had the chance of studying the top 250 players when I put together the E.Q. leaderboard. I received many pms' by those that did not make the list. They all spoke of the fact that they were not farmers. Upon further analysis of their game history, I agree completely with their position. The E.Q. cut off point definitely needs to be lowered from 0.800 to something like 0.600. But that actual number can be debated. What can NOT be debated is, the stats themselves. They are as true as rain.

Of course, the filibuster and thesaurus use could be limited to try and avoid the seemingly "filler" attribute your posts usually entail, but other than that, you had some valid points. Like you said, one would have to look at all of the player's games to determine if they are a "farmer" or not. However, if someone makes exclusively public games and n00bs join, who's to blame them? Map Rank would not be able to tell the difference.

More importantly, what affect does discussing the nature of farming have anymore? Lack has made it against the rules, so if the boot fits, it'll be put on their feet by the C&A staff. If you have a specific player you want to report, do it in C&A, don't flame up people with higher ranks than you because you feel they don't "deserve" it. If you have no one to report, and no conclusive evidence to support it, then there is really no point in arguing this further, at the very least in this specific subforum.

[Jeff Hardy]

ive said this before but ill say it again, it isnt up to you to decide who is a good player and who isnt

I beg to differ. I'm a good player, while you (and KingHerpes and lanyards) are not. Easy as that.

yes yes, keep telling yourself that

[FabledIntegral]

Anyone here find amusing the OP only has his hat because he abuses the point system himself? He joins dubs and trips games with low ranked players to maximize point game - hilarious. If you are going to try to convince people that you should play with people of similar rank and not abuse the point system, I suggest you should play with (whether it be on the same team or not) people of similar rank as well.

Another example of abusing the point scoring system as well as inflating your RR, which is flawed depending on what usage you use it for. Amusing that thread would suggest you're good depending on your RR, which is high because... of such abuse! Although it's only abuse by your standards, not mine.

[porkenbeans]

You are full of shit.

You were so close....I mean, you were this close to making a post that could almost be mistaken for intelligent. I mean, look at it:

R.R. clearly shows the average rank of your opponents. If you started all of your games as public games, your R.R. will not be very high. I admit that. But if your R.R. is very low, Like way under what it should be, Newbie targeting can be determined. I see people putting up examples of games, trying to show examples of Newbie farming. This is not the correct way to classify someone as a Newbie farmer. That example is but one stalk of corn, You would need to show a whole field of corn, and if that field does not have any other different crops other than that corn, NOW you have demonstrated the existence of a newbie farmer. A couple of stalks of corn in a field of many varieties of crops, Does NOT equate to Newbie Farming. In other words, you need to look at the whole field of games that a player has played. You would have to check every game the player has played.
Well, Map Rank has done this for us. The stats do not lie. Chips classifications and cut of points need some rethinking. But the numbers are correct. There can be no dispute of this fact. The only debate in my opinion is, where to make the cutoff points between the classifications of N.F., P.H., E.Q., BR, and GL. I would suggest that these designations be altered a bit as well. In particular the Point Hoarder designation. It does not seem quite applicable. Lacking, or Needs Improvement would be more inline. I would change Noob Farmer altogether to something like Bully. But all of that is just the window dressing. The most important thing is, to determine the cut of points. E.Q. for example should be lowered. How far can easily be studied and debated.
I had the chance of studying the top 250 players when I put together the E.Q. leaderboard. I received many pms' by those that did not make the list. They all spoke of the fact that they were not farmers. Upon further analysis of their game history, I agree completely with their position. The E.Q. cut off point definitely needs to be lowered from 0.800 to something like 0.600. But that actual number can be debated. What can NOT be debated is, the stats themselves. They are as true as rain.

Of course, the filibuster and thesaurus use could be limited to try and avoid the seemingly "filler" attribute your posts usually entail, but other than that, you had some valid points. Like you said, one would have to look at all of the player's games to determine if they are a "farmer" or not. However, if someone makes exclusively public games and n00bs join, who's to blame them? Map Rank would not be able to tell the difference.

More importantly, what affect does discussing the nature of farming have anymore? Lack has made it against the rules, so if the boot fits, it'll be put on their feet by the C&A staff. If you have a specific player you want to report, do it in C&A, don't flame up people with higher ranks than you because you feel they don't "deserve" it. If you have no one to report, and no conclusive evidence to support it, then there is really no point in arguing this further, at the very least in this specific subforum.

I think that I feel a bit flattered, as I do not use a thesaurus. Yes you are quite right about Noobs joining your games we all have that to deal with. But the law of averages does not allow for ONLY noobs to join your games. We all get roughly the same amount of them. So this is NOT a concern in this respect. Lastly, if you would notice the title of this thread, you would realize that your final statement is akin to that white glob on a bird turd. ...If it is not shit, I don't know what it is.

[King_Herpes]

Anyone here find amusing the OP only has his hat because he abuses the point system himself? He joins dubs and trips games with low ranked players to maximize point game - hilarious. If you are going to try to convince people that you should play with people of similar rank and not abuse the point system, I suggest you should play with (whether it be on the same team or not) people of similar rank as well.

Another example of abusing the point scoring system as well as inflating your RR, which is flawed depending on what usage you use it for. Amusing that thread would suggest you're good depending on your RR, which is high because... of such abuse! Although it's only abuse by your standards, not mine.

I'm glad that I wasn't the only person to notice this. I'm currently in three games with him where that is the case. I don't mind if he gets some points from me this way but if he thinks he's going to keep playing me or other high ranks like this he's crazy. Most of them do not appreciate it. Most everyone knows that it is common courtesy to join with a relatively equal team or higher.

[porkenbeans]

Anyone here find amusing the OP only has his hat because he abuses the point system himself? He joins dubs and trips games with low ranked players to maximize point game - hilarious. If you are going to try to convince people that you should play with people of similar rank and not abuse the point system, I suggest you should play with (whether it be on the same team or not) people of similar rank as well.

Another example of abusing the point scoring system as well as inflating your RR, which is flawed depending on what usage you use it for. Amusing that thread would suggest you're good depending on your RR, which is high because... of such abuse! Although it's only abuse by your standards, not mine.

I'm glad that I wasn't the only person to notice this. I'm currently in three games with him where that is the case. I don't mind if he gets some points from me this way but if he thinks he's going to keep playing me or other high ranks like this he's crazy. Most of them do not appreciate it. Most everyone knows that it is common courtesy to join with a relatively equal team or higher.

When you gang up on a Bully it is retribution. Besides, If you claim to be the best you should be able to beat anyone that steps up. You do not have the required talent that it takes to hold your rank and you know it. Unless you play your newbie peers, that is.