4K + 5K + 6K Club

[jrh_cardinal]

All their games are "singles" and public

All high-ranking freemies (who have never been premium) play 8 man freestyle. Are mhennigan, Thai Robert, etc. multis as well?

They will never attack themselves directly at the start of the games

They attack each other just as much as they attack everyone else, they're just smart about how much they attack, they don't get into big battles right off the bat.

Kyron and drakeavril were blocked (no possibility to play together in games) the very same day Xiangwang decided to join CC! the 29 May of 2009. Since then drakeavril has never played a game.

probably true, I wasn't around for that

Kiron and Xiangwang, have been cleared, just because they do not have the same IP address

They play turns at the same time...how can the same person play turns at the same time, especially on two IP's?

Why would the same person, as two super-highranking freemies, play with himself? Not really getting around the 4 game limit since they're the same games, and not advancing either account's rank, they each win games.

Look at their game histories, Kiron started mostly on Waterloo, then when xiangwang joined CC, he started playing them too, with Kiron. Then Kiron stopped playing CC, but xiangwang kept playing, and went to Third Crusade (by himself). When Kiron came back, xiangwang got him into Third Crusade. That does not seem like multi behavior to me. 8 man freestyle takes a lot of time/commitment to play well. Clearly Kiron didn't have that time for a couple months, but apparently xiangwang did? If they were the same person, they would both have the same amount time to devote to their turns.

even if the hunters do not seem to pay sufficient attention to their games

don't attack the hunters. ofc they're not perfect, but they don't exactly have the easiest job.

[bib.ou]

Just play a couple of games with them and it will become very clear to you. As for the hunters, you're right, they have a difficult job and it is only through analysis of how several games evolve that you can demonstrate that there is really something odd in it.

By the way, why would you play always with the same "friend" and unknown people? What a coincidence that Kiron had a friend and this friend is also a "CC genius" with the very same "specialisation"...It would in all cases be easy to block them and see if they are able to maintain the same percentage of wins. As regards IP, it is very easy to take two computers connected to different sub networks or even Wi-Fi and plays "simultaneously". If you analyse the logs you will understand that the speed of moves in their games allows perfectly one player to do it.

How do you explain the story with drakeavril?

[Chariot of Fire]

You don't even need two computers. Same PC can concurrently run IE & Mozilla windows, each logged-in under a different user name. And if you go via a proxy server on one of them you won't be displaying same IP address either.

Pretty simple really. And I probably shouldn't have exposed this as no doubt some scammer will try it out, lol.

[pimphawks70]

I recall reading something about proxies being blocked no?

[Bruceswar]

I recall reading something about proxies being blocked no?

They were but caused problems for legit users. I do not think they are anymore.

[Blitzaholic]

Just play a couple of games with them and it will become very clear to you. As for the hunters, you're right, they have a difficult job and it is only through analysis of how several games evolve that you can demonstrate that there is really something odd in it.

By the way, why would you play always with the same "friend" and unknown people? What a coincidence that Kiron had a friend and this friend is also a "CC genius" with the very same "specialisation"...It would in all cases be easy to block them and see if they are able to maintain the same percentage of wins. As regards IP, it is very easy to take two computers connected to different sub networks or even Wi-Fi and plays "simultaneously". If you analyse the logs you will understand that the speed of moves in their games allows perfectly one player to do it.

How do you explain the story with drakeavril?

bib.ou, I am really not sure about the whole thing, I do like to give people the benefit of the doubt until proven otherwise. Have you listed their names under cheating forum if you feel this strongly?

[ljex]

Just play a couple of games with them and it will become very clear to you. As for the hunters, you're right, they have a difficult job and it is only through analysis of how several games evolve that you can demonstrate that there is really something odd in it.

By the way, why would you play always with the same "friend" and unknown people? What a coincidence that Kiron had a friend and this friend is also a "CC genius" with the very same "specialisation"...It would in all cases be easy to block them and see if they are able to maintain the same percentage of wins. As regards IP, it is very easy to take two computers connected to different sub networks or even Wi-Fi and plays "simultaneously". If you analyse the logs you will understand that the speed of moves in their games allows perfectly one player to do it.

How do you explain the story with drakeavril?

bib.ou, I am really not sure about the whole thing, I do like to give people the benefit of the doubt until proven otherwise. Have you listed their names under cheating forum if you feel this strongly?

he has and they have been found innocent...

[bib.ou]

ljex is correct. I would rather say that they could not be found guilty. In fact I discovered later on that I was not the first one complaining. When you play against them and have a minimum of experience and can put them in difficult situations you realise quite immediately what is happening. It is however very difficult to see this from the log.

Xiron had been blocked before (and could not play games with drakevaril, who was supposed to be his roommate, according to what Xiron said) and then Xiangwang was created, the very same day Xiron and Drakeavril were blocked...This does not prove they are not innocent, but still....

Anyway, as I'm quite sure Kiron reads this (he did not take him long to find my post under cheating&abuse), they will probably just not play during a certain time and come back later on. As an experienced player, do you really believe it is possible to win almost all games in freestyle public "standard" games? I perfectly understand the strategy of the top 20 players in CC, even if I would probably not be able to mirror their strategy (usually excellent players in team games and playing with lower ranked teammate or excellent in freestyle one to one on very specific maps where dices are not so important, good esclating players playing only with high ranked people or a mixed of all that...), there are only two exceptions and they play almost all their games (at least those they win) together...

[ljex]

ljex is correct. I would rather say that they could not be found guilty. In fact I discovered later on that I was not the first one complaining. When you play against them and have a minimum of experience and can put them in difficult situations you realise quite immediately what is happening. It is however very difficult to see this from the log.

Xiron had been blocked before (and could not play games with drakevaril, who was supposed to be his roommate, according to what Xiron said) and then Xiangwang was created, the very same day Xiron and Drakeavril were blocked...This does not prove they are not innocent, but still....

Anyway, as I'm quite sure Kiron reads this (he did not take him long to find my post under cheating&abuse), they will probably just not play during a certain time and come back later on. As an experienced player, do you really believe it is possible to win almost all games in freestyle public "standard" games? I perfectly understand the strategy of the top 20 players in CC, even if I would probably not be able to mirror their strategy (usually excellent players in team games and playing with lower ranked teammate or excellent in freestyle one to one on very specific maps where dices are not so important, good esclating players playing only with high ranked people or a mixed of all that...), there are only two exceptions and they play almost all their games (at least those they win) together...

Its really simple, when two excellent players are in a game together and they have good strategy they are going to still have a high win percentage and it will look like secret diplomacy. You can look at me and commander62890 playing 3 player manual freestyle speed assassins. When we were both in the same game one of us won like 90% of the time, some will say secret diplomacy while this is not true. We both know that the strategy is to pick up a small bonus and not to waste troops attacking others until you can kill your target. You can look at Xiangwang when he played without kiron in the game...he still won a large % of the games. Just because another player who knows what they are doing players in the same game and they seem to not attack each other does not equate to them being involved in secret diplomacy. It just goes to show you that they both know getting into big fights over a bonus is pointless and will just serve to weaken both players causing someone else to win.

[Chariot of Fire]

It is a bit fishy though when they both miss turns on the same day, both write using very correct grammar/syntax, and both use the rarely seen emoticon :C

If it's not the same person then for sure there's an unwritten alliance - you can see from the logs of their games. If one of them can't win a game he simply ensures the other guy does. Look at xiangwang's score (he would actually be a general if he had played more games) and tell me honestly that someone can get to that level in so few games without cheating. Simply not possible.

[Kiron]

It is a bit fishy though when they both miss turns on the same day, both write using very correct grammar/syntax, and both use the rarely seen emoticon :C

If it's not the same person then for sure there's an unwritten alliance - you can see from the logs of their games. If one of them can't win a game he simply ensures the other guy does. Look at xiangwang's score (he would actually be a general if he had played more games) and tell me honestly that someone can get to that level in so few games without cheating. Simply not possible.

Why not? I taught xiangwang how to play the games, so he didn't repeat as many mistakes as many beginners would so he can win games more quickly. Read the strategy guide (colonel under 100 games) he wrote with my advice and his experience where exactly does it say kill recklessly like most players do (it focuses more on diplomacy while strengthening one's position for long term objective). He also plays the notorious crusade map which is very easy to win games against people unfamiliar because of the win-condition (especially when it first came out during the Beta testing). We are also friends (some habits rub off on each other) in real life (i got him into cc, are you saying u can't play with friends in real life?), we understand each other and know that's it's pointless to get into fights unless we have a huge gain from it. There are a few games where I got wiped in a continent in one go by xiangwang because he could actually securely hold it without fearing my retal (i'm usually left with a few territories on the other side of the board) and vica versa.

[Chariot of Fire]

It is a bit fishy though when they both miss turns on the same day, both write using very correct grammar/syntax, and both use the rarely seen emoticon :C

If it's not the same person then for sure there's an unwritten alliance - you can see from the logs of their games. If one of them can't win a game he simply ensures the other guy does. Look at xiangwang's score (he would actually be a general if he had played more games) and tell me honestly that someone can get to that level in so few games without cheating. Simply not possible.

Why not? I taught xiangwang how to play the games, so he didn't repeat as many mistakes as many beginners would so he can win games more quickly. Read the strategy guide (colonel under 100 games) he wrote with my advice and his experience where exactly does it say kill recklessly like most players do (it focuses more on diplomacy while strengthening one's position for long term objective). He also plays the notorious crusade map which is very easy to win games against people unfamiliar because of the win-condition (especially when it first came out during the Beta testing). We are also friends (some habits rub off on each other) in real life (i got him into cc, are you saying u can't play with friends in real life?), we understand each other and know that's it's pointless to get into fights unless we have a huge gain from it. There are a few games where I got wiped in a continent in one go by xiangwang because he could actually securely hold it without fearing my retal (i'm usually left with a few territories on the other side of the board) and vica versa.

"Are you saying you can't play with friends?" you ask. Sure....as a doubs team maybe, but not when it's so blatantly obvious you enter multiplayer singles games and retain that friendship through your gameplay. It's the same as six players sitting round a poker table and two of them are in cahoots.

I applaud your level-headed answer - many wouldn't be so cool - but I can't condone what is so obviously an undeclared alliance in all your games together. 4,000+ points in under 100 games for a newcomer to the site who learned from a strategy guide. Yeah right!

[Kiron]

It is a bit fishy though when they both miss turns on the same day, both write using very correct grammar/syntax, and both use the rarely seen emoticon :C

If it's not the same person then for sure there's an unwritten alliance - you can see from the logs of their games. If one of them can't win a game he simply ensures the other guy does. Look at xiangwang's score (he would actually be a general if he had played more games) and tell me honestly that someone can get to that level in so few games without cheating. Simply not possible.

Why not? I taught xiangwang how to play the games, so he didn't repeat as many mistakes as many beginners would so he can win games more quickly. Read the strategy guide (colonel under 100 games) he wrote with my advice and his experience where exactly does it say kill recklessly like most players do (it focuses more on diplomacy while strengthening one's position for long term objective). He also plays the notorious crusade map which is very easy to win games against people unfamiliar because of the win-condition (especially when it first came out during the Beta testing). We are also friends (some habits rub off on each other) in real life (i got him into cc, are you saying u can't play with friends in real life?), we understand each other and know that's it's pointless to get into fights unless we have a huge gain from it. There are a few games where I got wiped in a continent in one go by xiangwang because he could actually securely hold it without fearing my retal (i'm usually left with a few territories on the other side of the board) and vica versa.

"Are you saying you can't play with friends?" you ask. Sure....as a doubs team maybe, but not when it's so blatantly obvious you enter multiplayer singles games and retain that friendship through your gameplay. It's the same as six players sitting round a poker table and two of them are in cahoots.

I applaud your level-headed answer - many wouldn't be so cool - but I can't condone what is so obviously an undeclared alliance in all your games together. 4,000+ points in under 100 games for a newcomer to the site who learned from a strategy guide. Yeah right!

Who said he was new to playing risk. We play risk all the time in real life, I take my cc experience with me in real life and my friends adapt to them and we learn from each other. Our skill level in real life is reflected in playing cc. Just because someone is a new recruit doesn't mean they are not good at risk. I never said xiangwang read a strategy guide, he learned it through out real life gameplays and adopted it to a great degree. So all my noob mistakes in the beginning xiangwang did in our real life games so he would less likely to repeat them on cc. Sure, it took xiangwang awhile to get use to playing cc after losing a lot of his early games (unfamiliarity and little interest) until he got hooked. How many games did I play with him out of all his victories (he can obviously hold his own)? Not much.

Are you saying we never attack each other? Well, what gain is there to each of us attacking one another when no one has anything to gain (because both of us usually have well defended board position)? The general rule is to attack the weaker players for gains while strengthening ones board position and get out of unnecessary and costly wars through diplomacy. Every truce/war we made has been declared through game chat. Just because we don't attack each other doesn't mean we are allies, just the opportune moment isn't there. Yes, I agree there is a natural bias when any friends play together, because friends may understand each other better and each players playstyle (knowing your opponent gives you a strong advantage), but then are you saying no friends on cc can ever play a single game together without being accused of cheating? Where do you draw the line?

You are a general, you should know the best time to attack and when to defend. How many 3000+ players leave themselves in vulnerable positions easy for the picking when they know the map and how to defend their board position? Now how many 3000+ players would attack a well defended board position against an opponent who knows the map well while having little to gain other than weakening both sides (unless necessary an obvious win)?

Are not friends allowed to have a friendly rivalry in single games and try to manipulate the board positions to each person's advantage through chat and alliances to gain the upper hand on one another and to hopefully win the game?
Plently of times there are friendly rivalries in single games. Also double games are not cost efficient to play for us freemiums since we have limited game slots.

Furthermore, your poker game example doesn't work. You are basically saying you shouldn't play poker with a friend and 6 strangers despite both you and your friend wants to win because there is no prize for 2nd place. I don't know, but i play poker with friends all the time and we are all trying to win in the same way when i play with xiangwang, both of us is trying to win since we don't get points for 2nd place. Like good poker players, you want to calculate your odds of winning and play when u have decent hands (although, there is more luck involved in poker) in the same way I will only attack other players when I know i will be gaining something with minimal risk of retal damage from anyone else (so safe attacks or go last and make a large attack and go again thanks to freestyle for a big bonus to re-fortify). It just happens it's hard to make safe attacks against a 3000+ player because they know how to defend themselves and trying to attack in a big round is also hard since they try to predict you and don't let you go last (they would rather wait their turn out). It's not like xiangwang and I agree to split games, like he wins 1 and i win 1, if that was the case, I definitely been getting the short end of the stick

[bib.ou]

http://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=239&t=87952&p=2036410&hilit=+drakeavril#p2036410

See more specifically :

Re: Kiron/Drakeavril...2 for the price of 1!

Postby king achilles on Fri May 29, 2009 2:45 am
Kiron and drakeavril have been blocked. Not multis.

Joined: xiangwang
Fri May 29, 2009 10:39 am

Kiron uses to be much more carefull but everybody makes errors... If they were a medal for chetaer achievement, he would deserve it.

[Blitzaholic]

Master Fenrir 3971
29 points away bro, gl

[Master Fenrir]

[b]ALL TIME 4K + Scores in recorded CC History


In Chronological order:

CLASS of 2010

36. Kiron 4-30-10
37. Chariot of Fire 5-5-10
38. Manbungalow 6-12-10
39. Thebest712 8-5-10
40. Xiangwang 8-13-10

41. Master Fenrir 10-16-10 in 2003 games

[ljex]

[b]ALL TIME 4K + Scores in recorded CC History


In Chronological order:

CLASS of 2010

36. Kiron 4-30-10
37. Chariot of Fire 5-5-10
38. Manbungalow 6-12-10
39. Thebest712 8-5-10
40. Xiangwang 8-13-10

41. Master Fenrir 10-16-10 in 2003 games

Congrats, 4000 exactly

[Blitzaholic]

ballenus
4015 2010-09-14

[b]ALL TIME 4K + Scores in recorded CC History


In Chronological order:

CLASS of 2010

36. Kiron 4-30-10
37. Chariot of Fire 5-5-10
38. Manbungalow 6-12-10
39. Thebest712 8-5-10
40. Xiangwang 8-13-10

41. Master Fenrir 10-16-10 in 2003 games

Congrats, 4000 exactly

he went to 4055 I am a bit behind on some updating, I will get to it.

[Blitzaholic]

the newest to hit 4K

10 Aaarrrrggh 4017 412 games

[Blitzaholic]

welcome

ljex 4015

and now

malabrosse 4084

[pimphawks70]

Made it

[Blitzaholic]

Made it

what was your score?

[Leehar]

Made it

what was your score?

He's 4043 now, but it could probably continue going higher.

[Blitzaholic]

Made it

what was your score?

He's 4043 now, but it could probably continue going higher.

ok

thanks, adding, well done pimpy.

[Blitzaholic]

14 billy07 4005 449 238 (53%) General 11 4.9

billy made it this morning