[Unofficial] HALL OF FAME

[Robinette]

in sports, most if not all, like baseball, football, etc. have minimum game requirements, so does CC.

oh that is sooo NOT true..

Pro Football Hall of Fame - a player must have been retired at least seven years, 5 yrs retired for a coach. And all other can be voted at any time. NO MINIMUM NUMBER OF GAMES REQUIRED.

Baseball Hall of Fame - must have played at least 10 years in the majors and be retired for 5 years. NO MINIMUM NUMBER OF GAMES REQUIIRED, but must have played 10 seasons. Exceptions have been made.

Basketball Hall of Fame - must be fully retired for at least five years. No years of service criterion is applied to those who have made a "significant contribution to the game of basketball". Sportswriters and commentators are elected as full members. NO MINIMUM NUMBER OF GAMES REQUIRED.

National Soccer Hall of Fame - In any given year, a maximum of four male players and 2 female players, two builders (coaches, general managers, commentators, team owners and others who have helped build the game), and one on-ice official are inducted as members. Players and on-ice officials must have been retired for a minimum of 3 years to be eligible for nomination. NO MINIMUM NUMBER OF GAMES REQUIRED.

.... I am not sure what to tell you nette, play more I guess. Basically, if you average only a small tiny 4 games per day for a year, it comes at 1460 games almost 1500 games, average that for 2 years and a player is eligible, so in your 4 years, if you averaged what a freemium could at only 4 games a day, you would have around 5,840 games, we are just asking half of that, 3,000 games. That is pretty manageable.

This is not about me, this is not about the number of games that i have played, this is not about the number of games that i could have played, this is not about how manageable it is to play 3000 games, this is not about the fact that a freemium could do it in just 2 years...

I suppose if you were making criteria that created automatic membership, then yes, this would be a good idea.. but since this is simply criteria, and since it will all be vetted through a selection committee anyway, just why oh why do you want most players to be ineligible?

If this were to be a true Hall of Fame, then it should only include people who are retired , and no longer play the game <---please note the obvious presence of funny emoticon... this emoticon is placed here to inform you that this last bit is a joke

oh it is true..
there is a number of games or years required nette, in football it is usually around 7 years or so, this is why there has been a lot of debate on broncos running back terrel davis who was awesome, had some super seasons, but his number of games and years may be limiting him the hall of fame, same as bo jackson, they both studs, and if you could make the hall of fame in football in 3 years which is 48 games minimum, they would make it, but, in the NFL it is longer than that, they just barely miss. terrel davis played 6 or 7 years and this is the only thing that prevents him from entering canton in Ohio to be a HoF, sad but true, he has mvp's, the stats, the super bowl, no longevity which is games played and years played.

same as baseball, you say 10 years, but, no one is going to make baseball HoF in 10 years if they only play half or a third of the 162 game season. so, in a sense the years minimum in sports are also games minimum too, you need to understand that. In all time sports stats record book, they also say in (minimum games played) to be in record books or they are not listed. anyways, peace.

Okay Blitz... you asked for it...
I will begin by quoting your response to army as it is so very apropos to our discussion...

if u do not know what your talking about, be quiet about it, because you are sounding silly.

And now i will quote the Pro Football Hall of Fame: "Any fan may nominate any qualified person who has been connected with pro football in any capacity simply by writing to the Pro Football Hall of Fame. The only restriction is that a player and coach must have last played or coached at least five seasons before he can be considered."
But don't take MY word for it... Read it for yourself here: http://www.profootballhof.com/hof/selectionprocess.aspx

I could do this for each sport if needed, but the results will be the same... You are WRONG
Many people make the same mistake you have, assuming that the REASON someone isn't voted in is due to a RULE, rather that due to the decision of the committee... You see, this is the whole point I have been trying to make, which still, even now, i am pretty sure is still eluding you...

Anyway, this really isn't about any Sports Hall of Fame, it's about Conquer Club...

I'm just saying you should keep the RULES loose, and the SELECTION tight.


as a final footnote to Baseball HoF, it appears we almost agree on the 10 season requirement,,, although i know of at least 1 person who played only 9 seasons and made it in... anyway, to support your viewpoint, you will do better to ONLY reference Baseball's HoF, and not the other sports... especially Football sweetie, cause you were WAY wrong on that one.

[army of nobunaga]

lol, keeper//// JAAJAJA you make me laugh here , one of the few... I saw the joke. But you cant f*ck with the blitz about the HoF.. Shit heats up.

[Blitzaholic]

if u do not know what your talking about, be quiet about it, because you are sounding silly.

And now i will quote the Pro Football Hall of Fame: "Any fan may nominate any qualified person who has been connected with pro football in any capacity simply by writing to the Pro Football Hall of Fame. The only restriction is that a player and coach must have last played or coached at least five seasons before he can be considered."
But don't take MY word for it... Read it for yourself here: http://www.profootballhof.com/hof/selectionprocess.aspx

again, here it is nette

The only restriction is that a player and coach must have last played or coached at least five seasons before he can be considered. 5 seasons is your quote, and that is 80 games Robinette. Longevity is a requirement, and like I said, games have to be played in those minimum seasons. You cannot miss half the 16 game season and play 8 games per year for years and expect to make it, I know of NO one that has done that. Also, like I told you and it has been discussed for years about Terrel Davis, he played 6 or 7 seasons and you say 5 is minimum, even if that may be true, they look for longer years than that as evidenced by no one ever making the NFL HoF 5 years or less in the last 25 years, no one that I know of. Terrel Davis should be if you say minimum is 5 years, but, many do not vote him in because they think his 6 and 7 years is too little. New era, new rules, more padding, careers longer that they used to be. The fact you miss is the 5 year minimum is 80 games if you play all the games. So, although they do NOT directly mention the game requirement, they do in a way of the required minimum amount of years one plays and games are what they play in those years.

Also, you mention fans can nominate anyone, but, there are so many others involved, broadcasters, former football players, sports media, journalists, coaches, etc. and they have a more restricted list of players and by no means do they nominate any qualified player, they generally pick the best of the best during those eras, not just anybody eligible. They would need to stand out some more than the rest and played a minimum amount of seasons and games in those seasons. You could have a great quarterback who has played 5 seasons, but , the Pro Football hall of fame panel is going to say, or someone will ask and research: but, wasn't he injured a fair amount and missed half a season a couple times? If so, this will drop him from that list. Now if the quarterback played 9 or 10 years and have a couple shortened seasons, not as big a deal, see what I am saying. Longevity matters and during that longevity, you have to play games and produce at a high level, the Hall of Fame in any sports takes only the absolute bast and they filter out all the rest, this is why there is only a around handful inducted out of the thousands that played during those times.

[AgentSmith88]

if u do not know what your talking about, be quiet about it, because you are sounding silly.

And now i will quote the Pro Football Hall of Fame: "Any fan may nominate any qualified person who has been connected with pro football in any capacity simply by writing to the Pro Football Hall of Fame. The only restriction is that a player and coach must have last played or coached at least five seasons before he can be considered."
But don't take MY word for it... Read it for yourself here: http://www.profootballhof.com/hof/selectionprocess.aspx

again, here it nette

The only restriction is that a player and coach must have last played or coached at least five seasons before he can be considered. 5 seasons is your quote, and that is 80 games Robinette. Longevity is a requirement, and like I said, games have to be played in those minimum seasons. You cannot miss half the 16 game season and play 8 game sper year for years and expect to make it, I know of NO one that has done that. Also, like I told you and it has been discussed for years about Terrel Davis, he played 6 or 7 seasons and you say 5 is minimum, that is outdated information, no NFL player has played 5 years and made the pro football Hall of Fame over the last couple decades. In the 1950's, 1960's and 70's about 5 years was the average career of players, in the 1990's, and 21st century, a players career is longer now then it used to be, more pads, more rules and new rules on quarterbacks, protecting them, etc.

Also, you mention fans can nominate anyone, but, there are so many others involved, broadcasters, former football players, sports media, journalists, coaches, etc. and they have a more restricted list of players and by no means do they nominate any qualified player, they generally pick the best of the best during those eras, not just anybody eligible. They would need to stand out some more than the rest and played a minimum amount of seasons and games in those seasons. You could have a great quarterback who has played 5 seasons, but , the Pro Football hall of fame panel is going to say, or someone will ask and research: but, wasn't he injured a fair amount and missed half a season a couple times? If so, this will drop him from that list. Now if the quarterback played 9 or 10 years and have a couple shortened seasons, not as big a deal, see what I am saying. Longevity matters and during that longevity, you have to play games and produce at a high level, the Hall of Fame in any sports takes only the absolute bast and they filter out all the rest, this is why there is only a around handful inducted out of the thousands that played during those times.

okay, before nette jumps all over you, the 5 years is the amount of time after retiring. As in haven't played a game in 5 years.

Although I agree that she is technically right about major sports and their requirements, they also have hard numbers to determine a player's impact. Average, HR, TD, goals, assists, etc. All we have are medals and a current score. While I don't think 3,000 should be a hard rule, I don't mind blitz throwing it out there as a prerequisite. It is much harder to quantify a player's impact on CC because there isn't a league with an mvp or a champion (at least not for all of CC - clans are a different matter).

[ljex]

in sports, most if not all, like baseball, football, etc. have minimum game requirements, so does CC. HA played close to 1500 games at once just recently and is went UP in score to colonel, if a player can't do that over 4 years, I am not sure what to tell you nette, play more I guess. Basically, if you average only a small tiny 4 games per day for a year, it comes at 1460 games almost 1500 games, average that for 2 years and a player is eligible, so in your 4 years, if you averaged what a freemium could at only 4 games a day, you would have around 5,840 games, we are just asking half of that, 3,000 games. That is pretty manageable. It may take some players 4 years, or even 5 years, but, it is the HoF and if that is their goal they shoot for it, they will do it. However, that does not mean a player will get in, it just means they could be eligible.

What you fail to address in this is that games take more than a day to finish. Also there are only 563 active users who have 3000+ games most of which would never be considered for the hall of fame for other reasons. I agree there should be some games quota that players must achieve to be considered however 3000 just seems like too much.

[Blitzaholic]

in sports, most if not all, like baseball, football, etc. have minimum game requirements, so does CC. HA played close to 1500 games at once just recently and is went UP in score to colonel, if a player can't do that over 4 years, I am not sure what to tell you nette, play more I guess. Basically, if you average only a small tiny 4 games per day for a year, it comes at 1460 games almost 1500 games, average that for 2 years and a player is eligible, so in your 4 years, if you averaged what a freemium could at only 4 games a day, you would have around 5,840 games, we are just asking half of that, 3,000 games. That is pretty manageable. It may take some players 4 years, or even 5 years, but, it is the HoF and if that is their goal they shoot for it, they will do it. However, that does not mean a player will get in, it just means they could be eligible.

What you fail to address in this is that games take more than a day to finish. Also there are only 563 active users who have 3000+ games most of which would never be considered for the hall of fame for other reasons. I agree there should be some games quota that players must achieve to be considered however 3000 just seems like too much.

you also have to consider this may not be finalized until the end of this year and may not go into effect until year 2011, so that number can grow a lot between now and then as many are close and within range, I also expect a lot of players to keep playing over the next couple years, so many more will be at that mark in no time at all.

[Blitzaholic]

okay, before nette jumps all over you, the 5 years is the amount of time after retiring. As in haven't played a game in 5 years.

Although I agree that she is technically right about major sports and their requirements, they also have hard numbers to determine a player's impact. Average, HR, TD, goals, assists, etc. All we have are medals and a current score. While I don't think 3,000 should be a hard rule, I don't mind blitz throwing it out there as a prerequisite. It is much harder to quantify a player's impact on CC because there isn't a league with an mvp or a champion (at least not for all of CC - clans are a different matter).

good points agentsmith, I misread the 5 years after retiring, I thought she said 5 years they had to play.

the point I am trying to make is they do talk about this in NFL, like I keep mentioning Terrel Davis, he played 7 seasons, but many do not expect him to be in the hall of fame, he is real close, but the seasons and games is just short, the seasons is close, I think nowadays they expect 7 seasons or more, but 2 of those 7 seasons terrel davis had shortened injury seasons and missed games, which is the only thing costing him induction. if it were not for that, he'd be in. this is why longevity, seasons, games , stats, matter.

If most great quarterbacks over the last 20 years are playing a minimum of 10 years, then they will use that as a benchmark, it rolls with the era you are playing in. example, In baseball I used to remember 300 homers was almost auto HoF, then it went to 400 homers, then up to 500 years later.

All we are saying is for CC HoF, there is base requirements, meet them and you are eligible.

[AgentSmith88]

okay, before nette jumps all over you, the 5 years is the amount of time after retiring. As in haven't played a game in 5 years.

Although I agree that she is technically right about major sports and their requirements, they also have hard numbers to determine a player's impact. Average, HR, TD, goals, assists, etc. All we have are medals and a current score. While I don't think 3,000 should be a hard rule, I don't mind blitz throwing it out there as a prerequisite. It is much harder to quantify a player's impact on CC because there isn't a league with an mvp or a champion (at least not for all of CC - clans are a different matter).

good points agentsmith, I misread the 5 years after retiring, I thought she said 5 years they had to play.

the point I am trying to make is they do talk about this in NFL, like I keep mentioning Terrel Davis, he played 7 seasons, but many do not expect him to be in the hall of fame, he is real close, but the seasons and games is just short, the seasons is close, I think nowadays they expect 7 seasons or more, but 2 of those 7 seasons terrel davis had shortened injury seasons and missed games, which is the only thing costing him induction. if it were not for that, he'd be in. this is why longevity, seasons, games , stats, matter.

If most great quarterbacks over the last 20 years are playing a minimum of 10 years, then they will use that as a benchmark, it rolls with the era you are playing in. example, In baseball I used to remember 300 homers was almost auto HoF, then it went to 400 homers, then up to 500 years later.

All we are saying is for CC HoF, there is base requirements, meet them and you are eligible.

I was agreeing with you (mostly). My point was that there are less ways to quantify how good a CC player is than a pro athlete, and thus harder to judge. I don't mind having a GENERAL rule about 3,000 games, but I don't think someone should be kept out because they have only played 2500 games and would otherwise make the cut. I think that is what Robinette is trying to say as well. Although there may be an unspoken rule about games played in the NFL, technically there is no reason Terrell Davis can't make the HoF. However, if all the voters choose to use this as a basis (which most probably do) then he won't get in anyways. I guess my point is maybe it shouldn't be a written rule, but an unwritten one. I do applaud your efforts though because I'm sure it's incredibly difficult to get people to agree on such arbritrary, minute details.

[Robinette]

if u do not know what your talking about, be quiet about it, because you are sounding silly.

And now i will quote the Pro Football Hall of Fame: "Any fan may nominate any qualified person who has been connected with pro football in any capacity simply by writing to the Pro Football Hall of Fame. The only restriction is that a player and coach must have last played or coached at least five seasons before he can be considered."
But don't take MY word for it... Read it for yourself here: http://www.profootballhof.com/hof/selectionprocess.aspx

again, here it is nette

The only restriction is that a player and coach must have last played or coached at least five seasons before he can be considered. 5 seasons is your quote, and that is 80 games Robinette. Longevity is a requirement, and like I said, games have to be played in those minimum seasons. You cannot miss half the 16 game season and play 8 games per year for years and expect to make it, I know of NO one that has done that. Also, like I told you and it has been discussed for years about Terrel Davis, he played 6 or 7 seasons and you say 5 is minimum, even if that may be true, they look for longer years than that as evidenced by no one ever making the NFL HoF 5 years or less in the last 25 years, no one that I know of. Terrel Davis should be if you say minimum is 5 years, but, many do not vote him in because they think his 6 and 7 years is too little. New era, new rules, more padding, careers longer that they used to be. The fact you miss is the 5 year minimum is 80 games if you play all the games. So, although they do NOT directly mention the game requirement, they do in a way of the required minimum amount of years one plays and games are what they play in those years.

Also, you mention fans can nominate anyone, but, there are so many others involved, broadcasters, former football players, sports media, journalists, coaches, etc. and they have a more restricted list of players and by no means do they nominate any qualified player, they generally pick the best of the best during those eras, not just anybody eligible. They would need to stand out some more than the rest and played a minimum amount of seasons and games in those seasons. You could have a great quarterback who has played 5 seasons, but , the Pro Football hall of fame panel is going to say, or someone will ask and research: but, wasn't he injured a fair amount and missed half a season a couple times? If so, this will drop him from that list. Now if the quarterback played 9 or 10 years and have a couple shortened seasons, not as big a deal, see what I am saying. Longevity matters and during that longevity, you have to play games and produce at a high level, the Hall of Fame in any sports takes only the absolute bast and they filter out all the rest, this is why there is only a around handful inducted out of the thousands that played during those times.

OH. MY. GAWD.

Are you kidding me? I even provided you with the link, so you could actually READ the real thing for yourself. If you had you'd have seen an example that clears it up solidly...

For the record, the restriction is NOT that they PLAYED for 5 years, or 80 games, or more years if they had half seasons... it is EXACTLY what i had said it was... a 5 year waiting period. They do NOT mention a game count requirement, BECAUSE there is NO Game Count Requirement. PERIOD!

But, as inconceivable as your erroneous understanding of Football is for me to grasp, you are STILL missing the most obvious point that I've been trying to make... let me quote it for you, just maybe you will actually read and understand these words THIS time...

I could do this for each sport if needed, but the results will be the same... You are WRONG
Many people make the same mistake you have, assuming that the REASON someone isn't voted in is due to a RULE, rather that due to the decision of the committee... You see, this is the whole point I have been trying to make, which still, even now, i am pretty sure is still eluding you...

Anyway, this really isn't about any Sports Hall of Fame, it's about Conquer Club...

I'm just saying you should keep the RULES loose, and the SELECTION tight.

And might i add, i would have had MUCH more fun responding to this had AgentSmith not been on the case... Strikes me as odd though, that I could say it multiple times and he would not get it,,, you say it once and he listens... mnnnnn... i think i understand... cause football is a guy thing, right?

[army of nobunaga]

jajajajjajajajajjajajajaja

[Blitzaholic]

okay, before nette jumps all over you, the 5 years is the amount of time after retiring. As in haven't played a game in 5 years.

Although I agree that she is technically right about major sports and their requirements, they also have hard numbers to determine a player's impact. Average, HR, TD, goals, assists, etc. All we have are medals and a current score. While I don't think 3,000 should be a hard rule, I don't mind blitz throwing it out there as a prerequisite. It is much harder to quantify a player's impact on CC because there isn't a league with an mvp or a champion (at least not for all of CC - clans are a different matter).

good points agentsmith, I misread the 5 years after retiring, I thought she said 5 years they had to play.

the point I am trying to make is they do talk about this in NFL, like I keep mentioning Terrel Davis, he played 7 seasons, but many do not expect him to be in the hall of fame, he is real close, but the seasons and games is just short, the seasons is close, I think nowadays they expect 7 seasons or more, but 2 of those 7 seasons terrel davis had shortened injury seasons and missed games, which is the only thing costing him induction. if it were not for that, he'd be in. this is why longevity, seasons, games , stats, matter.

If most great quarterbacks over the last 20 years are playing a minimum of 10 years, then they will use that as a benchmark, it rolls with the era you are playing in. example, In baseball I used to remember 300 homers was almost auto HoF, then it went to 400 homers, then up to 500 years later.

All we are saying is for CC HoF, there is base requirements, meet them and you are eligible.

I was agreeing with you (mostly). My point was that there are less ways to quantify how good a CC player is than a pro athlete, and thus harder to judge. I don't mind having a GENERAL rule about 3,000 games, but I don't think someone should be kept out because they have only played 2500 games and would otherwise make the cut. I think that is what Robinette is trying to say as well. Although there may be an unspoken rule about games played in the NFL, technically there is no reason Terrell Davis can't make the HoF. However, if all the voters choose to use this as a basis (which most probably do) then he won't get in anyways. I guess my point is maybe it shouldn't be a written rule, but an unwritten one. I do applaud your efforts though because I'm sure it's incredibly difficult to get people to agree on such arbritrary, minute details.

agreed, very challenging, this thread is 3 years old and has been heavily debated a lot in the last several months, again the criteria was largely gathered from the general public of cc, then the criteria committee and a vast majority of the committee felt strongly that this was important, so this is not me speaking this, i am just the poster or voice or the whole committee. Thanks for you post and I liked the read. we never will get everyone to agree, but, we also do not want thousands of players to be in either, this is the Hall of Fame. I hear what nette is saying and it is a good argument, but, on your point agentsmith of 2500 games, if it was really important to them, wouldn't they player a little longer to reach that. by the time this HoF is created if it ever is, may not be til later this year, so players will have many years to come to reach this goal if they choose.

[Blitzaholic]

OH. MY. GAWD.

Are you kidding me? I even provided you with the link, so you could actually READ the real thing for yourself. If you had you'd have seen an example that clears it up solidly...

For the record, the restriction is NOT that they PLAYED for 5 years, or 80 games, or more years if they had half seasons... it is EXACTLY what i had said it was... a 5 year waiting period. They do NOT mention a game count requirement, BECAUSE there is NO Game Count Requirement. PERIOD!

there is though dunce nette sighs, it may not be written on the quote you got, but, the VOTERS take into account years played and longevity, this is evidenced by the players that get in the NFL HoF., and I have heard this for years when they have these discussions. No one has made the NFL, NBA, MLB Hall of Fame playing 5 years or less, no one that I know in the last 30 years I have known those sports, so it is factored in on the voters discussions, whether your source shares that are not, there is a reason for that, the voters consider longevity an important aspect.

Anyway, this really isn't about any Sports Hall of Fame, it's about Conquer Club...

I'm just saying you should keep the RULES loose, and the SELECTION tight.

fair enough, I can chat with committee about it.

[Robinette]

OH. MY. GAWD.

Are you kidding me? I even provided you with the link, so you could actually READ the real thing for yourself. If you had you'd have seen an example that clears it up solidly...

For the record, the restriction is NOT that they PLAYED for 5 years, or 80 games, or more years if they had half seasons... it is EXACTLY what i had said it was... a 5 year waiting period. They do NOT mention a game count requirement, BECAUSE there is NO Game Count Requirement. PERIOD!

there is though dunce nette sighs, it may not be written on the quote you got, but, the VOTERS take into account years played and longevity, this is evidenced by the players that get in the NFL HoF., and I have heard this for years when they have these discussions.

Ohhhh Noooo... you didn't...
you actually have the NERVE to call ME dunce, when it's YOU who STILL can't grasp the meaning of this...

Well of course you can't get it... because "you've heard this for years when they have these discussions", as "evidenced by the players that get in the NFL HoF "... Can't you understand that the players they didn't want in were kept out because of the SELECTION process, not because of strict rules... my gawd man, is it ME? maybe if Agent Smith says it to you you'll get it...

[AgentSmith88]

if u do not know what your talking about, be quiet about it, because you are sounding silly.

And now i will quote the Pro Football Hall of Fame: "Any fan may nominate any qualified person who has been connected with pro football in any capacity simply by writing to the Pro Football Hall of Fame. The only restriction is that a player and coach must have last played or coached at least five seasons before he can be considered."
But don't take MY word for it... Read it for yourself here: http://www.profootballhof.com/hof/selectionprocess.aspx

again, here it is nette

The only restriction is that a player and coach must have last played or coached at least five seasons before he can be considered. 5 seasons is your quote, and that is 80 games Robinette. Longevity is a requirement, and like I said, games have to be played in those minimum seasons. You cannot miss half the 16 game season and play 8 games per year for years and expect to make it, I know of NO one that has done that. Also, like I told you and it has been discussed for years about Terrel Davis, he played 6 or 7 seasons and you say 5 is minimum, even if that may be true, they look for longer years than that as evidenced by no one ever making the NFL HoF 5 years or less in the last 25 years, no one that I know of. Terrel Davis should be if you say minimum is 5 years, but, many do not vote him in because they think his 6 and 7 years is too little. New era, new rules, more padding, careers longer that they used to be. The fact you miss is the 5 year minimum is 80 games if you play all the games. So, although they do NOT directly mention the game requirement, they do in a way of the required minimum amount of years one plays and games are what they play in those years.

Also, you mention fans can nominate anyone, but, there are so many others involved, broadcasters, former football players, sports media, journalists, coaches, etc. and they have a more restricted list of players and by no means do they nominate any qualified player, they generally pick the best of the best during those eras, not just anybody eligible. They would need to stand out some more than the rest and played a minimum amount of seasons and games in those seasons. You could have a great quarterback who has played 5 seasons, but , the Pro Football hall of fame panel is going to say, or someone will ask and research: but, wasn't he injured a fair amount and missed half a season a couple times? If so, this will drop him from that list. Now if the quarterback played 9 or 10 years and have a couple shortened seasons, not as big a deal, see what I am saying. Longevity matters and during that longevity, you have to play games and produce at a high level, the Hall of Fame in any sports takes only the absolute bast and they filter out all the rest, this is why there is only a around handful inducted out of the thousands that played during those times.

OH. MY. GAWD.

Are you kidding me? I even provided you with the link, so you could actually READ the real thing for yourself. If you had you'd have seen an example that clears it up solidly...

For the record, the restriction is NOT that they PLAYED for 5 years, or 80 games, or more years if they had half seasons... it is EXACTLY what i had said it was... a 5 year waiting period. They do NOT mention a game count requirement, BECAUSE there is NO Game Count Requirement. PERIOD!

But, as inconceivable as your erroneous understanding of Football is for me to grasp, you are STILL missing the most obvious point that I've been trying to make... let me quote it for you, just maybe you will actually read and understand these words THIS time...

I could do this for each sport if needed, but the results will be the same... You are WRONG
Many people make the same mistake you have, assuming that the REASON someone isn't voted in is due to a RULE, rather that due to the decision of the committee... You see, this is the whole point I have been trying to make, which still, even now, i am pretty sure is still eluding you...

Anyway, this really isn't about any Sports Hall of Fame, it's about Conquer Club...

I'm just saying you should keep the RULES loose, and the SELECTION tight.

And might i add, i would have had MUCH more fun responding to this had AgentSmith not been on the case... Strikes me as odd though, that I could say it multiple times and he would not get it,,, you say it once and he listens... mnnnnn... i think i understand... cause football is a guy thing, right?

That's right honey. Now get in the kitchen and make me a sandwich!

In all seriousness though, I don't think a player should have to play a bunch more games just to be considered. However since Blitz says this is a consensus of multiple people then I guess I will go with it. I guess since the HoF isn't even in place yet we shouldn't kill anybody (yet).

[AgentSmith88]

OH. MY. GAWD.

Are you kidding me? I even provided you with the link, so you could actually READ the real thing for yourself. If you had you'd have seen an example that clears it up solidly...

For the record, the restriction is NOT that they PLAYED for 5 years, or 80 games, or more years if they had half seasons... it is EXACTLY what i had said it was... a 5 year waiting period. They do NOT mention a game count requirement, BECAUSE there is NO Game Count Requirement. PERIOD!

there is though dunce nette sighs, it may not be written on the quote you got, but, the VOTERS take into account years played and longevity, this is evidenced by the players that get in the NFL HoF., and I have heard this for years when they have these discussions.

Ohhhh Noooo... you didn't...
you actually have the NERVE to call ME dunce, when it's YOU who STILL can't grasp the meaning of this...

Well of course you can't get it... because "you've heard this for years when they have these discussions", as "evidenced by the players that get in the NFL HoF "... Can't you understand that the players they didn't want in were kept out because of the SELECTION process, not because of strict rules... my gawd man, is it ME? maybe if Agent Smith says it to you you'll get it...

Ok, nette is saying that there is no official length of time/amount of games required to be considered for the Hall of Fame. This is correct (except for the 10 years in baseball, which she said). What Blitz is trying to say (and is failing at) is that there is an unofficial bias amongst HoF voters that makes this a sort of unwritten rule amongst many of them. Both are correct and should quit arguing before you wake the kids up and the police are called.

[army of nobunaga]

if u do not know what your talking about, be quiet about it, because you are sounding silly.

And now i will quote the Pro Football Hall of Fame: "Any fan may nominate any qualified person who has been connected with pro football in any capacity simply by writing to the Pro Football Hall of Fame. The only restriction is that a player and coach must have last played or coached at least five seasons before he can be considered."
But don't take MY word for it... Read it for yourself here: http://www.profootballhof.com/hof/selectionprocess.aspx

again, here it is nette

The only restriction is that a player and coach must have last played or coached at least five seasons before he can be considered. 5 seasons is your quote, and that is 80 games Robinette. Longevity is a requirement, and like I said, games have to be played in those minimum seasons. You cannot miss half the 16 game season and play 8 games per year for years and expect to make it, I know of NO one that has done that. Also, like I told you and it has been discussed for years about Terrel Davis, he played 6 or 7 seasons and you say 5 is minimum, even if that may be true, they look for longer years than that as evidenced by no one ever making the NFL HoF 5 years or less in the last 25 years, no one that I know of. Terrel Davis should be if you say minimum is 5 years, but, many do not vote him in because they think his 6 and 7 years is too little. New era, new rules, more padding, careers longer that they used to be. The fact you miss is the 5 year minimum is 80 games if you play all the games. So, although they do NOT directly mention the game requirement, they do in a way of the required minimum amount of years one plays and games are what they play in those years.

Also, you mention fans can nominate anyone, but, there are so many others involved, broadcasters, former football players, sports media, journalists, coaches, etc. and they have a more restricted list of players and by no means do they nominate any qualified player, they generally pick the best of the best during those eras, not just anybody eligible. They would need to stand out some more than the rest and played a minimum amount of seasons and games in those seasons. You could have a great quarterback who has played 5 seasons, but , the Pro Football hall of fame panel is going to say, or someone will ask and research: but, wasn't he injured a fair amount and missed half a season a couple times? If so, this will drop him from that list. Now if the quarterback played 9 or 10 years and have a couple shortened seasons, not as big a deal, see what I am saying. Longevity matters and during that longevity, you have to play games and produce at a high level, the Hall of Fame in any sports takes only the absolute bast and they filter out all the rest, this is why there is only a around handful inducted out of the thousands that played during those times.

OH. MY. GAWD.

Are you kidding me? I even provided you with the link, so you could actually READ the real thing for yourself. If you had you'd have seen an example that clears it up solidly...

For the record, the restriction is NOT that they PLAYED for 5 years, or 80 games, or more years if they had half seasons... it is EXACTLY what i had said it was... a 5 year waiting period. They do NOT mention a game count requirement, BECAUSE there is NO Game Count Requirement. PERIOD!

But, as inconceivable as your erroneous understanding of Football is for me to grasp, you are STILL missing the most obvious point that I've been trying to make... let me quote it for you, just maybe you will actually read and understand these words THIS time...

I could do this for each sport if needed, but the results will be the same... You are WRONG
Many people make the same mistake you have, assuming that the REASON someone isn't voted in is due to a RULE, rather that due to the decision of the committee... You see, this is the whole point I have been trying to make, which still, even now, i am pretty sure is still eluding you...

Anyway, this really isn't about any Sports Hall of Fame, it's about Conquer Club...

I'm just saying you should keep the RULES loose, and the SELECTION tight.

And might i add, i would have had MUCH more fun responding to this had AgentSmith not been on the case... Strikes me as odd though, that I could say it multiple times and he would not get it,,, you say it once and he listens... mnnnnn... i think i understand... cause football is a guy thing, right?

That's right honey. Now get in the kitchen and make me a sandwich!

In all seriousness though, I don't think a player should have to play a bunch more games just to be considered. However since Blitz says this is a consensus of multiple people then I guess I will go with it. I guess since the HoF isn't even in place yet we shouldn't kill anybody (yet).

what about jim brown... he played like 4 years.... You people are being racist now... You have to play x number of games to get in????? Sounds pretty upper crust whitey to me.

[Fruitcake]

Ok, nette is saying that there is no official length of time/amount of games required to be considered for the Hall of Fame. This is correct (except for the 10 years in baseball, which she said). What Blitz is trying to say (and is failing at) is that there is an unofficial bias amongst HoF voters that makes this a sort of unwritten rule amongst many of them. Both are correct and should quit arguing before you wake the kids up and the police are called.

Well not quite. Blitz's position changed from...

in sports, most if not all, like baseball, football, etc. have minimum game requirements

....which I think is pretty conclusive and pretty damned clear in its delivery.

To this....

if u do not know what your talking about, be quiet about it, because you are sounding silly.

again, here it is nette

The only restriction is that a player and coach must have last played or coached at least five seasons before he can be considered. 5 seasons is your quote, and that is 80 games Robinette. Longevity is a requirement

....which, quite frankly was a stunning and masterful example in how to make yourself look extraordinarily stupid, and not just because of his incredibly arrogant (which is a hallmark of the truly stupid) remark towards Robinette regarding her sounding silly.

Then, once he was shown, once again, to have made assumption after assumption with little regard for the facts he suddenly becomes party to the following....

there is though dunce nette sighs, it may not be written on the quote you got, but, the VOTERS take into account years played and longevity, this is evidenced by the players that get in the NFL HoF., and I have heard this for years when they have these discussions.

soooo....Robinette is the dunce here???????

It would have been a simple response to include Robinette's thoughts, but no, because it did not suit Blitz it was ignored, swept aside and constantly demeaned........sigh....and this is the reason anything that Blitz produces get's muddied and loses its value before it even gets to the final stages.

[Blitzaholic]

some of you also seem to be forgetting a major piece of this:
4. Site Commitment - As primarily a gaming site, a minimum of 3,000 games must be played. (this helps measure premium status and dedication). The exception here would be if any person's focus was on organizing tournaments, map making, programming, mods, part of CLA, SoC, Newsletter Volunteer, Admin OR held a Team CC position or being a site worker of any kind, so this section here would need to be strictly individualized.

we trust the nominations and selections committee can weed out the exceptions, to just name a few , players like Mr.Benn, Optimus Prime, Cairnswk, Chipv, Jpcloet, Widowmakers and tons of others that a persons focus was on organizing tournaments, map making, programming, mods, part of CLA, SoC, Newsletter Volunteer, Admin OR held a Team CC position or being a site worker of any kind, so this section here would need to be strictly individualized. There is exceptions to this base criteria and obviously they would not have to meet 3,000 games, but, again, we can review this.

Fc the point I was trying to make is that no one makes the pro hall of fame in baseball, football and basketball playing under 5 seasons, so there is a requirement, whether it is written or not, it is spoken and talked about and since no player has made it under those few years, you have to admit, they would need to play at least over 5 seasons and really it is even longer than that, as in baseball agent said 10 years minimum. This is what we were arguing over, and really is off topic. also Fc it is unfair you say we do not consider it, when I say we would as we have with all things brought up, this is why the committee was formed in the first place. Sports consider longevity as important. robinette started with the name calling first, I wanted to let her be aware which she obviously doesn't know, that longevity matters and voters factor that in. If this was not true then Bo Jackson would be in the HoF, because he had a great 3 or 4 years before he had to retire due to injury, but, he is not a HoF because he did not play enough seasons.

And army Jim Brown played longer than 4 seasons, he has over 12,000 rushes yards career.

[White Moose]

Blitz, you and your commitee should really rethink. Clearly you need a new set of eyes or just talk about it more in detail. Right now it really seems like you are the one who proposed this game requierment. It feels right aswell, since it's just the thing you would do. Making it harder for anyone else to get in so you can be among the only few.

As said by Robinnette on several occasions about the other real Hall of Fame in Baseball, Football, etc. there are no accuall game requierment there. There are just a requierment on how long you were active. If that were to translate itself into CC. Then i think it should be the same. No game requierment, just how long you've been active (which mean how many years you've been a member of the site). I think it's rather silly to have a game requierment aswell. Some of the greatest players around that have been members for years, and stayed active for all those years still don't meet the game requierment. Robinette mentioned a few names which are among the greatest around. (Though Thai_Robert is a special case. Since hes been on and off in CC and not stayed active in all the years hes been a member). There are several others who i think are the best around who are more then 1000 games away from the 3000 limit. Chariot on Fire, just to mention one. Truly amazing player, extreamly respected team-player. Just have a look in the "5 players you respect the most thingy thread". CoF has been mentioned more then a few times.

I would very much like to hear from someone else in this commitee on this subject. Instead of just hearing it from Blitz. It would be great to have a second mouth of the commitee. When was the last time the commitee really discussed anything concering this thread? You've mentioned a few times that this thread is so old and yadiyadiya, but that just means that something should have changed significantly since then. But the impression i get is that it's sayed almost the same since the start. I may be wrong on this point of course, as it's just an assumption.

Just one last thing to mention. Blitzaholic, you really need to learn how to think outside of your own preset view and take in what other people say and perhaps change your opinion if whats said has value. Right now it just seems like you can't change your mind because it's already set to stone.

I dont know who your commitee is, but I would put white moose on it. You need compassionate people about the topic other than yourself blitz.

If the commitee would like me in it. Then i would join. Considering that Blitzaholic have something against me, since i don't think like him and don't agree with him all the time.. then i don't think so.

[Blitzaholic]

Blitz, you and your commitee should really rethink. Clearly you need a new set of eyes or just talk about it more in detail. Right now it really seems like you are the one who proposed this game requierment. It feels right aswell, since it's just the thing you would do. Making it harder for anyone else to get in so you can be among the only few.

As said by Robinnette on several occasions about the other real Hall of Fame in Baseball, Football, etc. there are no accuall game requierment there. There are just a requierment on how long you were active. If that were to translate itself into CC. Then i think it should be the same. No game requierment, just how long you've been active (which mean how many years you've been a member of the site). I think it's rather silly to have a game requierment aswell. Some of the greatest players around that have been members for years, and stayed active for all those years still don't meet the game requierment. Robinette mentioned a few names which are among the greatest around. (Though Thai_Robert is a special case. Since hes been on and off in CC and not stayed active in all the years hes been a member). There are several others who i think are the best around who are more then 1000 games away from the 3000 limit. Chariot on Fire, just to mention one. Truly amazing player, extreamly respected team-player. Just have a look in the "5 players you respect the most thingy thread". CoF has been mentioned more then a few times.

I would very much like to hear from someone else in this commitee on this subject. Instead of just hearing it from Blitz. It would be great to have a second mouth of the commitee. When was the last time the commitee really discussed anything concering this thread? You've mentioned a few times that this thread is so old and yadiyadiya, but that just means that something should have changed significantly since then. But the impression i get is that it's sayed almost the same since the start. I may be wrong on this point of course, as it's just an assumption.

Just one last thing to mention. Blitzaholic, you really need to learn how to think outside of your own preset view and take in what other people say and perhaps change your opinion if whats said has value. Right now it just seems like you can't change your mind because it's already set to stone.

I dont know who your commitee is, but I would put white moose on it. You need compassionate people about the topic other than yourself blitz.

If the commitee would like me in it. Then i would join. Considering that Blitzaholic have something against me, since i don't think like him and don't agree with him all the time.. then i don't think so.

actually I think denominator suggested it.

[Blitzaholic]

Agree with blitz, we were trying to include the ways, apart from game-palying a Hall of Famer might distinguish themselves.

06) Has the play organized tournaments? If so, How many? Were any close to a year long?

why does the time frame make a difference? If you have a 5 round tourney, who cares if you send a round out per week or per month ? It takes the same amount of time and effort to create a tourney and run it. Yeah a 1 vs 1 is going to be quicker vs an 8 player singles game but why should that make a difference ? So a TO should be judged on the type of game he uses in his tournament?

This one is interesting to me. Maybe we could be a bit more general with how we put the question. Something like:

06) Has the player organized tournaments? If so, How many and what was the length, quality and popularity of those tournaments?

yes, we will re-look at these and all everyone said., kepe posting your ideas, til end of April, then we will go back and discuss more.

[jackal31]

wow....looks like Blitz is taking a lot of fire......so here is my view.

We had a very lengthy talk about this particular topic. I have my views on a min game requirement and it has been heard. I also heard everyone else's.....but what you all have to keep in mind is that we all voted on the same criteria. The majority won (and it wasnt close).
Also, please understand that this is not the NFL or MLB etc....but this is CC.....we make the criteria suggestions and they all kinda go hand in hand.

One example would be to say someone who has only played 100 games but hasnt ever been a premium member and has a 90% win rate. We need to exclude people like this from the selection. It would be unfair to people like Moose who has much more to offer.

Trust me, we went round and round about this for some time. But it took the entire commitee to step up and discuss it. Blitz did not make these decisions on his own!

[Fruitcake]

Mission Statement:

"A CC Hall of Famer is recognized as one who has shown great character, game play, and support. They have excelled in displaying quality sportsmanship in every aspect of the site. They are the type of player whose game play stands out above most, and has contributed to the CC world in multiple facets. It is our honor to recognize these competitors as a foundation, who helped build CC into what it is today."

BASE CRITERIA:

Any member of Conquerclub is eligible for the Hall of Fame provided they meet the following measurable requirements:





1. Longevity - A Conquer Club player who has been a member of this site for a minimum of 3 years.

2. Sportsmanship - A player who is respected by the Conquer Club community for exceptional skills, friendliness, and has a rating of 4.5+.

3. Clean Slate - They have not received a ban for a major infraction or multiple bans for minor infractions. Note: below a * defines CC's rules. This should be individualized.

4. Site Commitment - As primarily a gaming site, a minimum of 3,000 games must be played. (this helps measure premium status and dedication). The exception here would be if any person's focus was on organizing tournaments, map making, programming, mods, part of CLA, SoC, Newsletter Volunteer, Admin OR held a Team CC position or being a site worker of any kind, so this section here would need to be strictly individualized.



1. I think this minimum is slightly long. Objectively this should be in the Speciality Criteria so those who make a dramatic impact can be rewarded should this be the decision of the Nomination committee

2. Highly subjective. The secondary part (rating) is based on viewable fact. Perhaps this should be split, the secondary part being the Base Criteria whilst the primary part becomes another section within the Specialty Criteria.

3. Have little problem with this.

4. As with others I think 3,000 is too high. 2,000 would be closer to a reasonable level, but then it could be said this is a subjective view.
______________________________________________________________________________________________________

Specialty Criteria

We suggest the Nomination and Selection committees ask these questions about candidates, using their judgement to assess how well players have performed, paying particular attention to outstanding performances in particular areas and to players who have performed well in multiple areas:


01) Has the player received a Special Contribution medal?
02) How many maps has the player cross mapped on (5+ unique defeats), is it over 100?
03) What has the player's average score been over the entire career on CC, is it close to 2500+?
04) What is the player's highest earned score and rank?
05) Has the player produced maps? If so, How many? Are the maps popular?
06) Has the play organized tournaments? If so, How many? Were any close to a year long?
07) Has the player been involved as a moderator, clan organizer, in CLA, part of SoC, Newsletters, or programming?
08) Has the player won tournaments? If so, how many, and what quality of tournaments?
09) What is the player's relative Map Rank?
10) What is the player's rating? If possible, what is the player's feedback ratio?
11) Does the player have a majority of gold medals? How many total medals does the player have?
12) How many clan wars has the player won? Is their clan respectable and successful as winners?


The overall question has to be, how many of these criteria should be achieved. Furthermore, which criterium is the most senior if any?

regarding point 10...isn't this a repeat of the point 2 in the base criteria?

Regarding point 12, I do not think this is really germaine to the issue, yes one could say one is judged by the company one keeps, but I think you will find that this criterium is little used.

The Criteria comm. needs to ensure that the various aptitudes required are reasonably level so they can all be used in assessment.
* CC Rules Enforcement outlined below

For users who break the above Guidelines, as they say, "there will be consequences and repercussions." The Mods and Admins will always take into account when past infractions occurred, and the severity of the current infraction and any past infractions, in addition to the intent of the infractions.

There are essentially Two Levels of Infraction in Conquer Club: Minor and Major/Severe.

* Minor Infractions are those that are more annoying than hurtful with intent. This includes but is not limited to: Spamming, Off Topicing, Common Flaming, Common Trolling, Necro-bumping, Avatar Abuse, Chat/Forum Newbie Abuse, International Forum Abuse, Repeatedly Posting for Vacationed Users, "Report a Post" Abuse, "Cheating and Abuse Report" Abuse, Unwanted Solicitation of a user via PM/Walls/Gamechat), etc.
o Minor Infractions follow the traditional vacation escalation scale of: Warning, 24 Hour Vacation, 72 Hour Vacation, One Week Vacation, One Month Vacation, 6 Month Vacation*, with repeated 6 Month Vacations as necessary upon a Minor Infraction upon release from the max vacation.
Say a Minor Infraction of Spamming leads to a user's first Minor Warning. If they are found in violation with any Minor Infraction, be it Necro-bumping, Avatar Abuse, "Cheating and Abuse Report" Abuse, etc, the next level will be up the scale, even if the first Warning was not associated with the second infraction.
-----------
* Major/Severe Infractions are those that are more than just annoying, but are intentionally hurtful to a user, group of users, or the community in general. This includes but is not limited to: Cyber-bullying/Harassment, Bigotry, Personal Information Abuse, Account Sitting Abuse, Intentional Deadbeating, Repeatedly Holding Players Hostage, Serial Teammate Killing, Hijacking Accounts, Systematically "Farming" New Recruits, Illegal Point Collecting, Gambling, **Point Dumping** etc.
o Major/Severe Infractions follow a shortened vacation escalation scale of: Warning, One Month Vacation, Permanent Vacation.
**Note: Due to the nature of Point Dumping having an impact of the integrity of the game, your account will be suspended first until the issue can be resolved.**

If an account ever reaches a 6 Month Forum Vacation or Permanent Live Chat Vacation, their next infractions may be bumped up to a Permanent Website Vacation.

***Secret Diplomacy Infraction levels are as follows: Block and Warning, Block and 1 Week Website Vacation, Block and 1 Month Website Vacation, Block and Account Inactivation.***
-----------
Say a Major Infraction of Cyber-Bullying/Harssment leads to a user's first Major/Severe Warning. If they are found in violation with any Major/Severe Infraction, be it New Recruit Farming, Bigotry, Serial Teammate Killing, etc, the next level will be up the scale, even if the first Warning was not associated with the second infraction.

[denominator]

Blitz, you and your commitee should really rethink. Clearly you need a new set of eyes or just talk about it more in detail. Right now it really seems like you are the one who proposed this game requierment. It feels right aswell, since it's just the thing you would do. Making it harder for anyone else to get in so you can be among the only few.

Like Blitz said, it was my proposal to have a minimum game requirement. I did a quick re-read through the forum rules to make sure I'm not breaking any by posting what I have said within the Criteria Committee usergroup out here in the public forums, and I think I'm okay so long as I stick to what I posted:

I like the idea of a game minimum instead of "premium" - they both say the same thing, just putting in a game minimum makes in more quantifiable. For an actual number, I think we'd have to sit down and look at what reasonable players play. I know I'm probably going to end up with about 5000 games in 3 years, but is this average for CC? I would think that 1000 games played per year (average) is a reasonable requirement, it means that the players must have held premium for a long enough time to play a whole pile of games. This also sets us up later when we start working on the nitty-gritty of crossmapping and the like.

In the thread in General Discussion (I can't remember which is which), it was brought up over and over again that players making the Hall of Fame should be part of the site for a long period of time, show good sportsmanship, and support the site. There was much agreement on supporting the site, especially considering the low cost of $25/year. The committee decided that being premium was a fair thing to expect of Hall of Fame players, but like I said above, trying to figure out how long a player has been premium for is a very difficult task. I did some quick, basic checks on games played (higher end being HA, lower end being players like Robinnette), and figured I ended up on the higher end of average in terms of typical game load. Which meant that my 5000 over 3 years would translate to about 3000 over 3 years for an "average" CC player (I believe this works out to having about 40-50 active games consistently).

We also figured a game minimum would help to show a player's consistency. Someone like me (who I took to be about the average on CC) will hit high points and low points, but will only stay up in "Hall of Fame" range for a short period of time. It would be possible for me to spike my score temporarily by playing about 100 games on settings I know I will do well on (but not necessarily enjoy playing), then drop my game load down to 1 or 2 games for the next year and keep my high rank. This is then not a true representation of my actual skill level.

As said by Robinnette on several occasions about the other real Hall of Fame in Baseball, Football, etc. there are no accuall game requierment there. There are just a requierment on how long you were active. If that were to translate itself into CC. Then i think it should be the same. No game requierment, just how long you've been active (which mean how many years you've been a member of the site). I think it's rather silly to have a game requierment aswell. Some of the greatest players around that have been members for years, and stayed active for all those years still don't meet the game requierment. Robinette mentioned a few names which are among the greatest around. (Though Thai_Robert is a special case. Since hes been on and off in CC and not stayed active in all the years hes been a member). There are several others who i think are the best around who are more then 1000 games away from the 3000 limit. Chariot on Fire, just to mention one. Truly amazing player, extreamly respected team-player. Just have a look in the "5 players you respect the most thingy thread". CoF has been mentioned more then a few times.

As much as the CC Hall of Fame can be compared to a sporting Hall of Fame, the differences are vast. The biggest one, in my opinion, and the reason I was originally against a CC Hall of Fame, is:

By definition, in any Hall of Fame, all the players considered for entry must be retired from the profession in which they're being considered.

So anyone making it into the CC Hall of Fame must have formally retired from the game.

The second big difference is that CC is a hobby whereas sporting is a profession. It is understood that the best players in any given sport are going to play it over a long career, whereas the best players at CC are just as likely to come and go as their real life permits. Again, using myself as an example, I know that my real profession makes me busy in the summer and free in the winter such that I will play more CC game in the winter and less in the summer.

Further to the point, but conversely, comparing the CC Hall of Fame to a sports Hall of Fame again comes down to consistency. My only true knowledge of a Hall of Fame is to hockey, and in that sport I know that players that have played longer and more consistently will be favoured over those who play short inconsistent careers. It is the same in CC - we are choosing the best of the best CC players, and having the game requirement proves that they can consistently hold their high rank.

I would very much like to hear from someone else in this commitee on this subject. Instead of just hearing it from Blitz. It would be great to have a second mouth of the commitee. When was the last time the commitee really discussed anything concering this thread? You've mentioned a few times that this thread is so old and yadiyadiya, but that just means that something should have changed significantly since then. But the impression i get is that it's sayed almost the same since the start. I may be wrong on this point of course, as it's just an assumption.

I generally avoid General Discussion as most of what is posted here is complaints about the dice. I do, however, realize that sometimes Blitz is not the best liaison for matters such as these, and as such will make attempts to frequent this thread more often. I can tell you, however, that the comments being posted in this thread are being copied over to the Criteria Committee Usergroup where they are being discussed. Some of the Specialty Criteria are being amended, and we have discussed the game limit. It was an almost unanimous decision in favour of the game limit within the committee.

Just one last thing to mention. Blitzaholic, you really need to learn how to think outside of your own preset view and take in what other people say and perhaps change your opinion if whats said has value. Right now it just seems like you can't change your mind because it's already set to stone.

I will second this notion, and this is a large part of why I was saddened to see stahrgazer go. As much as she and I disagreed about the process and the criteria for selecting Hall of Fame players, having those discussions definitely helped steer the committee into considerations we may have otherwise overlooked.

I dont know who your commitee is, but I would put white moose on it. You need compassionate people about the topic other than yourself blitz.

If the commitee would like me in it. Then i would join. Considering that Blitzaholic have something against me, since i don't think like him and don't agree with him all the time.. then i don't think so.

It's up to Blitz and the other members of the committee. I think we settled on 15 as a good number for the committee, but I'll bring it up within the usergroup and see what happens.

[denominator]

...

BASE CRITERIA:

Any member of Conquerclub is eligible for the Hall of Fame provided they meet the following measurable requirements:


1. Longevity - A Conquer Club player who has been a member of this site for a minimum of 3 years.

2. Sportsmanship - A player who is respected by the Conquer Club community for exceptional skills, friendliness, and has a rating of 4.5+.

3. Clean Slate - They have not received a ban for a major infraction or multiple bans for minor infractions. Note: below a * defines CC's rules. This should be individualized.

4. Site Commitment - As primarily a gaming site, a minimum of 3,000 games must be played. (this helps measure premium status and dedication). The exception here would be if any person's focus was on organizing tournaments, map making, programming, mods, part of CLA, SoC, Newsletter Volunteer, Admin OR held a Team CC position or being a site worker of any kind, so this section here would need to be strictly individualized.



1. I think this minimum is slightly long. Objectively this should be in the Speciality Criteria so those who make a dramatic impact can be rewarded should this be the decision of the Nomination committee

2. Highly subjective. The secondary part (rating) is based on viewable fact. Perhaps this should be split, the secondary part being the Base Criteria whilst the primary part becomes another section within the Specialty Criteria.

3. Have little problem with this.

4. As with others I think 3,000 is too high. 2,000 would be closer to a reasonable level, but then it could be said this is a subjective view.

1) This is to show commitment and consistency to the site. For most players on Conquer Club, they will not become eligible until well after they have succeeded at fulfilling the other base criteria and showing excellence in the specialty criteria. Having a longer base time period prevents running into conflicts of players having fulfilled only partial specialty criteria and builds a fairer vote.

2) Because CC starts every player at 5.0, it has become common practice on CC to rate high, such that a 4-star rating is not positive. Of the current 22000 players on CC's Scoreboard, 73% have a rating of 4.5 or higher. This restriction is put in place to prevent poor sports from making the Hall of Fame, not to ensure that good sports do.

4) There's 564 players on CC's Scoreboad that have completed 3000 or more games. Like I said in my above post, playing this many games shows a consistency over a longer game span (regardless of time span) and those that hold higher ranks will thus be better players than those that don't.

Specialty Criteria

We suggest the Nomination and Selection committees ask these questions about candidates, using their judgement to assess how well players have performed, paying particular attention to outstanding performances in particular areas and to players who have performed well in multiple areas:


01) Has the player received a Special Contribution medal?
02) How many maps has the player cross mapped on (5+ unique defeats), is it over 100?
03) What has the player's average score been over the entire career on CC, is it close to 2500+?
04) What is the player's highest earned score and rank?
05) Has the player produced maps? If so, How many? Are the maps popular?
06) Has the play organized tournaments? If so, How many? Were any close to a year long?
07) Has the player been involved as a moderator, clan organizer, in CLA, part of SoC, Newsletters, or programming?
08) Has the player won tournaments? If so, how many, and what quality of tournaments?
09) What is the player's relative Map Rank?
10) What is the player's rating? If possible, what is the player's feedback ratio?
11) Does the player have a majority of gold medals? How many total medals does the player have?
12) How many clan wars has the player won? Is their clan respectable and successful as winners?


[b]The overall question has to be, how many of these criteria should be achieved. Furthermore, which criterium is the most senior if any?

The point of these was not to ask players to fulfil any specific criteria (unlike the base criteria), rather, to get the Selections Committee to look subjectively at the entire statistical history of players and compare them.

The Criteria are listed in our order of importance, with #1 carrying the most weight and #12 carrying the least.

regarding point 10...isn't this a repeat of the point 2 in the base criteria?

At this point it becomes more subjective. The 4.5 rating in the Base Criteria was to eliminate those players deemed by their opponents to be "poor sports", whereas the Specialty Criteria point is to determine how "good of a sport" the player is. It also brings into account feedback, which, with the older players will be relevant.

Keep in mind that it is two separate groups of people applying the different sets of criteria. In a perfect world, I would not allow the Nominations committee to see the criteria for the Selections committee, but it is unfortunately not possible in these circumstances.

Regarding point 12, I do not think this is really germaine to the issue, yes one could say one is judged by the company one keeps, but I think you will find that this criterium is little used.

This was put in more to gauge the player's opponents. In Clan Wars, as opposed to public team games, the general quality of one's opponents, and more importantly, one's opponent's teamwork, will be much higher. Thus, if a player has a good record in Clan Wars over skilled opponents, their skill level will be higher.

This is also the lowest ranked criteria, for the reasons you pointed out.