real bad results in c and a (case resolved.)

[gradybridges]

Jobiwan still signed up for those tournaments, and it was his obligation to tell the tournament organizers that a sub was needed to replace him. Surely it cannot be the obligation of an account sitter to tell a TO this, even if it would have saved everyone a lot of hassle if the sitter had done so in this case.

You don't think Blitz and his crew should have realized aafter a week that something was wrong with Jobi deadbeating every game? blitz has played 553 games with Jobiwan, they have a history. What if Jobiwan was in an accident and couldn't tell anyone?

They didn't care. All they wanted was his points.

[Metsfanmax]

Jobiwan still signed up for those tournaments, and it was his obligation to tell the tournament organizers that a sub was needed to replace him. Surely it cannot be the obligation of an account sitter to tell a TO this, even if it would have saved everyone a lot of hassle if the sitter had done so in this case.

You don't think Blitz and his crew should have realized aafter a week that something was wrong with Jobi deadbeating every game? blitz has played 553 games with Jobiwan, they have a history. What if Jobiwan was in an accident and couldn't tell anyone?

They didn't care. All they wanted was his points.

I do think Blitz should have realized something was wrong, and I'm sure he did realize it. That doesn't mean I think he broke site rules by not doing anything about it. I am not defending Blitz's actions as honorable. I'm simply defending Blitz's actions as not ban-worthy.

[Woodruff]

And my posts should make it clear that he is not at fault for messing up jobiwan's points. All points jobiwan lost are solely due to the fact that jobiwan was not taking his own turns.

I disagree with this wholeheartedly. If Jobiwan is UNAWARE THAT HE HAS BEEN PUT INTO GAMES, then WHY would HE be responsible for PLAYING THOSE GAMES? That makes no sense to me at all.

The thread in question makes it clear that Jobiwan did not deadbeat from games he was unaware he was joining.

This is not true. Jobiwan was joined into tournament games, and then left to deadbeat LONG AFTER Jobiwan had clearly stopped coming to the site.

Jobiwan signed up for those tournaments and then quit. It is squarely his fault for signing up for a tournament and leaving CC without notifying the tournament organizer that he wouldn't be continuing to play the games.

Bullshit. The ONLY way for that to be a valid defense is if tournament organizers put players into games when they created them. The FACT is that Jobiwan was unaware that he was in those tournament games. By contrast, the individual WHO DID KNOW that Jobiwan was in those games was INTENTIONALLY LETTING HIM DEADBEAT SO HE COULD BOOST HIS OWN POINTS in his team games with Jobiwan.

[eddie2]

lol lets look at the rules then metsfanmax.

from comunity guidelines.


Account-Sitting:

* Players are allowed to account-sit for others as long as they are not opponents within the game. 1) When sitting for a player, you need to post who you are and how long you will be sitting for the player so that other players in the game are aware of who they are actually playing.
* Being on another player's account for ANY reasons other than taking turns when they are in danger of missing a turn, 2)or posting to necessary Tournament or Clan related public forum topics, is not allowed.3) Abuse of this privilege can be considered account sharing and could result in a Bust for both accounts.


1)this was not done if it was tourney organisers would of seen something wrong and contacted the sitters.

2) they could of posted to the organiser to let them know.

3) from what i read it this kind off abuse is a auto site ban. since jobiwan still is not back and has been 2 weeks now. knowing about it.

[Woodruff]

All the games jobiwan deadbeated from were previously started games, and tournaments he voluntarily signed up for.

What about First round Tournament games where a sub would be wasy? Or my tournament where Jobiwan was a reserve and it was a play in game? Those would be NEW Tournaments?

Jobiwan still signed up for those tournaments, and it was his obligation to tell the tournament organizers that a sub was needed to replace him. Surely it cannot be the obligation of an account sitter to tell a TO this, even if it would have saved everyone a lot of hassle if the sitter had done so in this case.

No, it's NOBODY'S obligation to do it. You see, if Jobiwan doesn't accept those invitations (thanks to Blitz), then he is automatically replaced by the tournament organizer. END OF STORY. But then Blitz can't steal points.

[Metsfanmax]

Bullshit. The ONLY way for that to be a valid defense is if tournament organizers put players into games when they created them. The FACT is that Jobiwan was unaware that he was in those tournament games. By contrast, the individual WHO DID KNOW that Jobiwan was in those games was INTENTIONALLY LETTING HIM DEADBEAT SO HE COULD BOOST HIS OWN POINTS in his team games with Jobiwan.

Jobiwan signed up for the tournament games in question. Unless you think Blitz should be banned for joining games that Jobiwan asked to be in, we don't really have anything further to discuss.

[Woodruff]

Bullshit. The ONLY way for that to be a valid defense is if tournament organizers put players into games when they created them. The FACT is that Jobiwan was unaware that he was in those tournament games. By contrast, the individual WHO DID KNOW that Jobiwan was in those games was INTENTIONALLY LETTING HIM DEADBEAT SO HE COULD BOOST HIS OWN POINTS in his team games with Jobiwan.

Jobiwan signed up for the tournament games in question. Unless you think Blitz should be banned for joining games that Jobiwan asked to be in, we don't really have anything further to discuss.

This is really quite simple...if Jobiwan is not joined into those tournament games, Jobiwan is dropped from the tournament and replaced by the tournament organizer, losing no points for those will-be-deadbeated games. But then Blitz couldn't steal points.

[Metsfanmax]

Bullshit. The ONLY way for that to be a valid defense is if tournament organizers put players into games when they created them. The FACT is that Jobiwan was unaware that he was in those tournament games. By contrast, the individual WHO DID KNOW that Jobiwan was in those games was INTENTIONALLY LETTING HIM DEADBEAT SO HE COULD BOOST HIS OWN POINTS in his team games with Jobiwan.

Jobiwan signed up for the tournament games in question. Unless you think Blitz should be banned for joining games that Jobiwan asked to be in, we don't really have anything further to discuss.

This is really quite simple...if Jobiwan is not joined into those tournament games, Jobiwan is dropped from the tournament and replaced, losing no points for those will-be-deadbeated games. But then Blitz couldn't steal points.

You're right, it is simple. So answer the question: should Blitz be banned because he joined those games instead of letting the invites expire?

[eddie2]

awnser this ? should blitz still be allowed to sit for jobiwan in the illegal games he started non tourney ones.

[Metsfanmax]

awnser this ? should blitz still be allowed to sit for jobiwan in the illegal games he started non tourney ones.

Of course not. I think it's evident that Blitz should be completely blocked from sitting for jobiwan.

[eddie2]

awnser this ? should blitz still be allowed to sit for jobiwan in the illegal games he started non tourney ones.

Of course not. I think it's evident that Blitz should be completely blocked from sitting for jobiwan.

well he is not thats why i dont like the result.

[Woodruff]

Bullshit. The ONLY way for that to be a valid defense is if tournament organizers put players into games when they created them. The FACT is that Jobiwan was unaware that he was in those tournament games. By contrast, the individual WHO DID KNOW that Jobiwan was in those games was INTENTIONALLY LETTING HIM DEADBEAT SO HE COULD BOOST HIS OWN POINTS in his team games with Jobiwan.

Jobiwan signed up for the tournament games in question. Unless you think Blitz should be banned for joining games that Jobiwan asked to be in, we don't really have anything further to discuss.

This is really quite simple...if Jobiwan is not joined into those tournament games, Jobiwan is dropped from the tournament and replaced, losing no points for those will-be-deadbeated games. But then Blitz couldn't steal points.

You're right, it is simple. So answer the question: should Blitz be banned because he joined those games instead of letting the invites expire?

In my PERSONAL opinion? Absolutely. Without question.

[Mr Changsha]

Bullshit. The ONLY way for that to be a valid defense is if tournament organizers put players into games when they created them. The FACT is that Jobiwan was unaware that he was in those tournament games. By contrast, the individual WHO DID KNOW that Jobiwan was in those games was INTENTIONALLY LETTING HIM DEADBEAT SO HE COULD BOOST HIS OWN POINTS in his team games with Jobiwan.

Jobiwan signed up for the tournament games in question. Unless you think Blitz should be banned for joining games that Jobiwan asked to be in, we don't really have anything further to discuss.

This is really quite simple...if Jobiwan is not joined into those tournament games, Jobiwan is dropped from the tournament and replaced, losing no points for those will-be-deadbeated games. But then Blitz couldn't steal points.

You're right, it is simple. So answer the question: should Blitz be banned because he joined those games instead of letting the invites expire?

In my PERSONAL opinion? Absolutely. Without question.

There is no rule in place (as far as I know) to ban an account for dropping someone else's points. Therefore it would have been unfair to ban Blitz.

As I have written previously in this thread, I think a more apt punishment would have been to take a couple of thousand points off of Blitz's account. I am aware it probably wouldn't have bothered him all that much, but I do think that is a fair punishment to fit this cime in general. A full site-ban (which I assume is what you mean, or do you in fact mean a forum ban???) is a bit harsh, for a full forum ban he needs to move up the escalating system...though I have never agreed with that system....I suppose I'm saying the trouble is that there is no apt punishment for this offence on the books.

Yet.

I don't doubt that the general sense of outrage expressed here and in other threads will have the-powers-that-be reviewing the punishment system for the future.

Though I would just point out that dropping your bog-standard captain's points by 1,000 is an exceptionally tough punishment, dropping Blitz by 3,000 points just gives him an excuse to play even more games.

[Woodruff]

Jobiwan signed up for the tournament games in question. Unless you think Blitz should be banned for joining games that Jobiwan asked to be in, we don't really have anything further to discuss.

This is really quite simple...if Jobiwan is not joined into those tournament games, Jobiwan is dropped from the tournament and replaced, losing no points for those will-be-deadbeated games. But then Blitz couldn't steal points.

You're right, it is simple. So answer the question: should Blitz be banned because he joined those games instead of letting the invites expire?

In my PERSONAL opinion? Absolutely. Without question.

There is no rule in place (as far as I know) to ban an account for dropping someone else's points. Therefore it would have been unfair to ban Blitz.

As I have written previously in this thread, I think a more apt punishment would have been to take a couple of thousand points off of Blitz's account. I am aware it probably wouldn't have bothered him all that much, but I do think that is a fair punishment to fit this cime in general. A full site-ban (which I assume is what you mean, or do you in fact mean a forum ban???) is a bit harsh, for a full forum ban he needs to move up the escalating system...though I have never agreed with that system....I suppose I'm saying the trouble is that there is no apt punishment for this offence on the books.

Yet.

I don't doubt that the general sense of outrage expressed here and in other threads will have the-powers-that-be reviewing the punishment system for the future.

Though I would just point out that dropping your bog-standard captain's points by 1,000 is an exceptionally tough punishment, dropping Blitz by 3,000 points just gives him an excuse to play even more games.

This is precisely why I believe the site ban (not a useless forum ban) is the appropriate punishment, because causing Blitz to lose points PUNISHES THE REST OF THE SITE (at least, the point-whores of the site), rather than Blitz. All it does is take a great player's skill gaining points at the rate of a...whatever he would be if we took a certain number of points from him.

[sonicsteve]

Earlier in this thread it was mentioned that blitz and jobiwan had played about 550 games together. If I had played over 500 games with someone I would consider them to be a pretty big pal of mine on this site.

If a big pal of mine had entrusted me with their password and suddenly went awol due to a death in the family I would look after their remaining games as if they were my own and try to keep them alive and progressing in their tournament games until they got back. If I couldn't manage their gameload I would ask clanmates to assist with the account. This is simply the common sense, decent thing to do.

Instead, what appears to have happened is at best a reckless disregard for Jobiwan, his account, his points and those third parties in games and tournaments with him. At worst it is manipulation of his account just to secure a few extra points for those on his team.

If Jobiwan returns to CC he will find that the friends who should have been taking care of him simply abandoned him when he was having a rough time and got his account restricted. Merely abandoning a friend cannot be punishable by the site. Actively signing him up for games, then benefitting by ignoring those games to manipulate his score should be punishable.

[Mr Changsha]

Earlier in this thread it was mentioned that blitz and jobiwan had played about 550 games together. If I had played over 500 games with someone I would consider them to be a pretty big pal of mine on this site.

If a big pal of mine had entrusted me with their password and suddenly went awol due to a death in the family I would look after their remaining games as if they were my own and try to keep them alive and progressing in their tournament games until they got back. If I couldn't manage their gameload I would ask clanmates to assist with the account. This is simply the common sense, decent thing to do.

Instead, what appears to have happened is at best a reckless disregard for Jobiwan, his account, his points and those third parties in games and tournaments with him. At worst it is manipulation of his account just to secure a few extra points for those on his team.

If Jobiwan returns to CC he will find that the friends who should have been taking care of him simply abandoned him when he was having a rough time and got his account restricted. Merely abandoning a friend cannot be punishable by the site. Actively signing him up for games, then benefitting by ignoring those games to manipulate his score should be punishable.

Good post...

He showed complete disregard for his friend (and yeah 500 odd games certainly equals a friend in my book), he cheated to maintain conqueror and he brought disrepute both on himself and his clan. The site has no effective punishment beyond a warning, sadly, so it is up to THOTA to punish him in a way that has real consequence...by removing him from the leadership of that clan. That would be a fitting censure.

[tyche73]

He was accused of point dumping, and he was explicitly cleared of it in king a's post, even if there was not a serious belief that he was guilty of it.

And my posts should make it clear that he is not at fault for messing up jobiwan's points. All points jobiwan lost are solely due to the fact that jobiwan was not taking his own turns.

You just can't fix stupid

[Fruitcake]

He showed complete disregard for his friend (and yeah 500 odd games certainly equals a friend in my book), he cheated to maintain conqueror and he brought disrepute both on himself and his clan. The site has no effective punishment beyond a warning, sadly, so it is up to THOTA to punish him in a way that has real consequence...by removing him from the leadership of that clan. That would be a fitting censure.

Good point Mr C. I had not really dwelt on this until now. It is of interest to see what THOTA do. After all, they also hold themselves out to be quite special. It would show real leadership to other new and junior clans if they turfed Dumper out with the rubbish, otherwise one can only imagine they condone this kind of point manipulation and cheating.

[Big Whiskey]

I haven't read this entire thread but I was told what was being said here so decided to stop by and say a few things.Blitz will not be kicked out of THOTA.He and David Wain started the clan and I think it's hilarious FC is even saying something of the sort.This thread imo is a joke and shows how much time certain players on here have.Is this all u have to do on a Saturday afternoon? CC is not all about Blitzaholic so move on people.If u feel that Blitz has done u wrong in some way,foe him and stop all your childish complaints.Like always,have a great day.

BW

[Robinette]

Well, unlike Big Whiskey, I HAVE read this entire thread.. and the C&A thread as well...

and i would conclude that Blitz has done a very bad thing indeed,

I would have at least expected him to say he was sorry... that he regrets this whole thing occurred,,, and perhaps even, that if he had it to do over again, he would have done things differently... but apparently not...

Overall, this whole affair makes me quite sad...

[comic boy]

He showed complete disregard for his friend (and yeah 500 odd games certainly equals a friend in my book), he cheated to maintain conqueror and he brought disrepute both on himself and his clan. The site has no effective punishment beyond a warning, sadly, so it is up to THOTA to punish him in a way that has real consequence...by removing him from the leadership of that clan. That would be a fitting censure.

Good point Mr C. I had not really dwelt on this until now. It is of interest to see what THOTA do. After all, they also hold themselves out to be quite special. It would show real leadership to other new and junior clans if they turfed Dumper out with the rubbish, otherwise one can only imagine hey condone this kind of point manipulation and cheating.

Fruity is going for a win double, he gets to call Blitz names and then have a sideways swipe at THOTA , very mature that
I think the warning was fair , Blitz in my opinion was pretty silly and as a consequence broke the rules, having known him for a long time though I am certain that nothing sinister was intended.
To be honest the guy is not as organised as you might think , more a nutty professor in fact , he is more likely to go out in the morning wearing different coloured socks than to plan a fiendish points coup.
When you reach the top it is difficult to stay motivated , Blitz I would say is spurred on by his previous achievements, he wants to be remembered as a legend on this site. A large part of greatness is ones integrity and sense of fair play, Blitz would not intentionaly jeopardise his reputation for a measly few points I can assure you.
He has proved without question that he can stay at the top of the tree for extended periods of time without cheating , his actions were of somebody not thinking things through rather than those of a villain.
He has been censored by CC , his pride and reputation have been tarnished, he been thrown open to bitter and jealous attack ( as evidenced in this thread and others ) punishment enough I feel and those who really know the man will agree.

[Fruitcake]

He showed complete disregard for his friend (and yeah 500 odd games certainly equals a friend in my book), he cheated to maintain conqueror and he brought disrepute both on himself and his clan. The site has no effective punishment beyond a warning, sadly, so it is up to THOTA to punish him in a way that has real consequence...by removing him from the leadership of that clan. That would be a fitting censure.

Good point Mr C. I had not really dwelt on this until now. It is of interest to see what THOTA do. After all, they also hold themselves out to be quite special. It would show real leadership to other new and junior clans if they turfed Dumper out with the rubbish, otherwise one can only imagine hey condone this kind of point manipulation and cheating.

Fruity is going for a win double, he gets to call Blitz names and then have a sideways swipe at THOTA , very mature that
I think the warning was fair , Blitz in my opinion was pretty silly and as a consequence broke the rules, having known him for a long time though I am certain that nothing sinister was intended.
To be honest the guy is not as organised as you might think , more a nutty professor in fact , he is more likely to go out in the morning wearing different coloured socks than to plan a fiendish points coup.
When you reach the top it is difficult to stay motivated , Blitz I would say is spurred on by his previous achievements, he wants to be remembered as a legend on this site. A large part of greatness is ones integrity and sense of fair play, Blitz would not intentionaly jeopardise his reputation for a measly few points I can assure you.
He has proved without question that he can stay at the top of the tree for extended periods of time without cheating , his actions were of somebody not thinking things through rather than those of a villain.
He has been censored by CC , his pride and reputation have been tarnished, he been thrown open to bitter and jealous attack ( as evidenced in this thread and others ) punishment enough I feel and those who really know the man will agree.

I notice neither of your posts actually defends his actions.

Which of the two posts from your clan is the official THOTA statement? You have yet to make one. Unlike Dumpers crime not having precedent, there is one for this.

[Leehar]

Earlier in this thread it was mentioned that blitz and jobiwan had played about 550 games together. If I had played over 500 games with someone I would consider them to be a pretty big pal of mine on this site.

I think the whole analogy doesn't fly. You've played just over 1000 games, 550 is a significant proportion of that. Blitz however has played a huge amount of games, and the big pals of his are those he's played more than triple that amount with. BW for example who I think he's played almost 3k games with. Those are his friends, and it helps that they're clanmates as well. I'd imagine the relationship with Jobiwan is just at an acquaintance level, they've played a few (500) games together, most likely the same type of team. The way I understand it, jobiwan was having trouble making his turns at the beginning of March, and a few of Blitz's games as well most probs, so when Blitz mentioned helping him out it was just for those games. At that time when Jobiwan handed over his pass to blitz just for the purpose of making those turns I assume, Jobiwan also expressed the intent of joining some more games with Blitz, which is where the whole public game saga began. For the rest, as far as I see it, Blitz's obligation just extended to those games that jobiwan played with him, perhaps sometimes he accepted invites to the tourney games under the assumption that Jobiwan would be back to play those. Perhaps he should have been more proactive and taken the fact that jobiwan wasn't avail. as a sign to inform relevant parties about not sending those invites etc (which I understand is some of the TO's concerns -grady and wood primarily). The fact that he didn't isn't really overwhelming evidence that he should be consigned to the sin bin.
There are obviously numerous other issues evident here, which I wouldn't mind addressing later, but at the heart of the matter I must agree with jef (as much as it pains me) that this does seem to largely be a witch-hunt with the primary aim of dragging Blitz through the mud. Who knows, maybe he is an arrogant jack*** (I haven't really been involved with him enough to indicate either way), but if he does irritate you to that level, just do as BW says and FAMO, they're isn't really such a need to go about with more mudslinging.

[dividedbyzero]

There are obviously numerous other issues evident here, which I wouldn't mind addressing later, but at the heart of the matter I must agree with jef (as much as it pains me) that this does seem to largely be a witch-hunt with the primary aim of dragging Blitz through the mud. Who knows, maybe he is an arrogant jack*** (I haven't really been involved with him enough to indicate either way), but if he does irritate you to that level, just do as BW says and FAMO, they're isn't really such a need to go about with more mudslinging.

Bingo.

I've seen actual criminals that get talked about less. Move on.

(And before Fruitcake posts the obvious, yes, I'm in THOTA...yes, Blitz is my friend...and yes, I trust him 100%. No, this is not an official statement. No, there probably won't be one because clan business is no one else's business. And why does it even matter? Foe us all if you think we merit it. You will not be graded on your opinion.)

[Big Yuma Ripper]

I personally will not write a big post here, main reason being is that it is all boiled out of jealousy....I have not read all the crap wrote in all these pages because i tend to stay away from the rumor mills here in the forums. You ever notice how when a team no matter what sport team, single player or what ever gets bigger than the sport its self rumors and mudslinging starts...If you cant beat them then try to bring them down to your level. Blitz has been and is the best player on CC, his record proves it day in and day out any settings and games you want., so why would he need to do anything to improve on that? If they were rules broke then I would bet anything that it was not intended that way or to cause any problems. That is NOT the way one of my best and most respected friends her goes about his day here. So all you flunkies that are trying to point fingers and have no idea what your talking about other than the trash your reading here please either learn the man or leave it alone.
I will add that this is not a official THOTA post either just my opinion on the matter.....like it or not.