Flame Wars needs to go!

[Norse]

Meh...I couldn't beat out a flying spunk ball whether it goes or not.

No-ones going to stop me having my fun.

My point exactly... I think it would be dangerous if people like Norse were forced to leave Flame Wars or the Clubhouse for too long, given what I've seen in some of his posts...

Have you ever seen what a one ounce smeg ball looks like?

I keep it under my pillow.

[HayesA]

I voted to get rid of Flame Wars. There's too much disrespecting of good moderators going on there. Some of the stuff they say there is really slandering as well. Somone on there called me "a self confessed pedophile", when I said nothing of the sort. Obviously this imbecile did this to make it easier to diss me. It was a cheap shot from a cheap individual. That kind of thing I would like to see not happen anymore here, so let's get rid of the flame wars.

What a load of balls. you don't like it? Don't enter the forum. I REALLY don't know why this is even a bloody issue. It's really simple: don't like it, don't go in there. The forum even has a disclaimer, too. I don't, and cant see, why any of it is such a issue.

[Dancing Mustard]

I voted to get rid of Flame Wars. There's too much disrespecting of good moderators going on there.

What? People are using Flame Wars for disrespecting other people? Disrespecting people who are personifications of the CC administration? Essentially flaming an aspect of CC?
Good God! That'd mean that they're using the forum for precisely what it's intended for and that they're not spamming up other forums which are intended for other things... sweet mother of Jesus Whump, you're right, something must be done! People using the forums in precisely the way that they're intended to be used is an abomination against Lack and God and Elvis!

In other words: That's even more ridiculous than Aerial Attack's ill-fated rationale. To use a simple metaphor to make this easier for you, it's like complaining that a bottle labelled 'drinking-water' contains water that is suitable for drinking.

If you want to argue that a forum should be deleted, then I'm afraid we're going to need a coherent and empirically proveable argument to prove that's the correct course of action to take... better luck next time.

Some of the stuff they say there is really slandering as well. Somone on there called me "a self confessed pedophile", when I said nothing of the sort. Obviously this imbecile did this to make it easier to diss me.

I'm glad that my diet today has been suplemented by a healthy dose of irony. Are you aware that calling somebody an 'imbecile' is equally slanderous as somebody calling you a 'paedophile'? Didn't you just call him an imbecile in an attempt to discredit him and make it easier for you to rail against his forum of choice? Congratulations, you are apparently just as bad as the people you're attempting to criticise.
If you're just going to kick yourself in the face with hypocrisy then what's the point in even trying to make us take you seriously? You're supposed to force us to undermine you, not do it for us.

Might I also point out that you could easily avoid the injury that you feel when you are denounced as a sick and morally-derelict child-abusing paedophile, by simply avoiding the FW. If the fun and games that go on there are not to your taste, then do not come and play them. No harm is done to you or your reputation (or you Risk score if you take that seriously) if you don't come and embarrass yourself... so do yourself a favour and stay away. If you want to stop getting stung, then quit putting your hand into the wasp's nest.

In fact, given how much you have posted in the FW, and how many times I've seen you slander other posters, or troll for angry responses, I question whether your motives here are so morally righteous as you make them out to be. I dare to go so far as to suggest that you have no firmly held convictions about the demerits of FW whatsoever. I think you're just making some noise in the hope that you can spite a group of posters whose acceptance you have failed to gain (despite your desperate efforts) by getting their forum taken away; at the very least you're just trying to annoy FW posters who have insulted you in the past by trying to threaten them with deletion of their favourite forum.

Do you know what we call posting simply to annoy other posters, or to provoke an angry response Whump? We call it trolling.
Where's your self-righteous crusader outfit gone now?


Go away, think up some rational arguments, and don't come back until you've got one; this barrel already has more than enough fish for me to shoot.

[Twill]

Keep it on topic and away from insulting others guys.

I know it's a topic on flame wars, that doesn't mean we need to start heading towards flame wars - remember where you are.

The easier everyone from the Flame Wars is on people outside, the easier it will be to let Flame Wars stay - they don't complain to me, I don't complain to you. Simple

Have a good one.
Twill

[Dancing Mustard]

Sorry Twill, I understand where you're coming from, but I think that's a little harsh.

I haven't said anything here that's a flame/insult, nor am I aware of saying anything that has been off-topic. Granted my style of rebuttal is robust, and might be considered ungentlemanly by some of the more sensitive debaters here, but I refuse to entertain the idea that it is so scathing as to be classifiable as a 'flame'. I'm afraid that Ae-At and Whump were both making some very silly points, and as such merited the responses they recieved. It's one thing to be allowed to join in debate freely and have your say, but it's quite unreasonable to expect to be allowed to spout incoherent points (especially when they bely less-honourable ulterior motives) and go unchecked.

I also think it's a little unfair to request that FW people 'go easy' on people who are commited to trying to get their favourite sub-forum erased. In fact, I'd say that forming a quasi-lynch-mob to lobby for the arbitrary deletion of a piece of CC, beloved by many, is the very antithesis of 'going easy'. So far FW posters have been told that they 'demean' and 'devalue' CC simply by abiding by the rules of a sub-forum; they've also endured demands that their favourite part of CC be deleted because apparently their opinions and preferences are less important than the opinions and preferences of the GD posters who seem to regard themselves as inherently superior.
Why do FW posters have to 'go easy' and endure that kind of rubbish while other posters aren't rapped on the knuckles? Why aren't you telling anti-FW posters to go easy on FW, so that FW responses go easy on them? I don't understand why you're only warning one side of the equasion, because both sides are at least equally guilty.

I have a lot of respect for you Twill, and I realise that you're keen to make sure that this thread doesn't degenerate into a slander-party, but I do feel that FW people are, in this instance, being asked to refrain from a style of debating and a level of vitriol, which is being allowed to flow unchecked from the other side of the table.

[mandalorian2298]

Flame Wars need to be renamed to:

Flame Wars (A wrong place to visit if you are bothered by insults and swearing, moron!)

I think that this should solve all the problems of all those poor, sensible souls that get being ravaged by Nark, Mustard and Ron.

Seriously: Are you people unable to stop clicking the link? Do you fail to recognize the connection between clicking the Flame Wars link and the sudden increase of opscenities that surround you?

I like this site because I can express myself without limitations. I like the fact that I have recieved just one Mod PM in more then a year. I like the fact that when I do something stupid on the forum (feed a troll for example) a Mod comes and posts something like "Mandalorian2298, you are being an idiot and a feeding a troll." instead of sending me anal "Warnings". There are enough of lame sites on the net. I vote that this one should remain cool as it is.

[Visaoni]

I voted to get rid of Flame Wars. There's too much disrespecting of good moderators going on there. Some of the stuff they say there is really slandering as well. Somone on there called me "a self confessed pedophile", when I said nothing of the sort. Obviously this imbecile did this to make it easier to diss me. It was a cheap shot from a cheap individual. That kind of thing I would like to see not happen anymore here, so let's get rid of the flame wars.

If you went there, and posted there, you got what you asked for. If you say something in Flame Wars, EXPECT THIS! That is why there is a disclaimer right under the link.

If you can't handle insults nobody takes seriously from some person you don't know over the internet, who doesn't know who you are either, you really need to go back to kindergarden where it is okay to go crying to the teacher that somebody called you a 'butt head.'

[b.k. barunt]

The existence of the flame forum encourages trolling and flames throughout the site. As capable as I am of long tirades I'll simply quote the poll. It has outlived its usefulness.

No, sorry. We at Dancing Mustard Enterprises do not simply accept bald assertions that are not supported by some kind of evidence. How does FW promote trolling throughout the site? Can you prove that, or even show some supporting evidence? You're a clever guy Coleman, but I'm not just going to take your word for it simply because you say I should. If you want to call FW a negative influence, then I'd like to see some evidence of your proposition, because I for one don't like to go around deleting several people's favourite bit of CC without some hard empirically proveable facts.

I'm afraid that quoting the poll doesn't help you either. Just because a lot of stupid people all say the same thing doesn't make their opinion valid (Smoking must be good! Millions of people do it and say it's cool! Wheee!). If they could come up with an argument backed by evidence then it might, Just because those stupid people recorded their opinions in a poll doesn't help them out one bit. I'm afraid you're going to have to rely on something else before the opposition take you seriously.

Basically, for all your collective whinging about how bad FW makes the forums, nobody has demonstrated it yet. Given how much action you're demanding and how loudly you're shouting I'd have expected a bit more... there's 45 of you apparently, why don't you put your heads together and find us a few links that demonstrate FW ruining the other forums in a significant enough fashion to warrant its removal.

We'll be waiting right here for you when you finally manage it.

1) Typically people who enter a Flame Forum on any site are either less civilized than or lacking the maturity of [due to a variety of reasons: age; stress; dice; etc.] other posters.

I say this because civility dictates a certain modicum of "decency." The quoted word being the most important, yet also the most difficult to define. I don't go in Flame Wars that often and when I do I find the following: some extremely funny stuff; some inane useless arguing; some steam venting; and some stuff that definitely crosses the forum standards.

Only 50% of the possible things to find there could be considered "useful" or additions to the site. Alas, the other 50% of the possible probably makes up closer to 80% of the actual.

2) Just the fact that people will respond negatively by "trolling" in other forums if Flame Wars is removed or more closely monitored, belies the maturity of those posting therein. Do we really want/need their "contributions" to the site?

3) Maybe if Flame Wars was revamped to something like "Vent Some Steam" ... As for really funny stuff, as long as you stay within the forum guidelines, there's no reason it couldn't go in The Clubhouse.

4) I have definitely noticed an attitude in many of the Suggestions/General Discussion posts towards "noobs." Remember, they are here for many of the same reasons you are: to play Global Domination (or Risk); to share ideas relating to Global Domination; to meet new people who share a passion for Global Domination; to improve this site where possible; etc.

Whist many a new player will ask the same frustratingly stupid or inane question OR suggest an ages old rejected idea OR declare a bug that isn't OR ..., you have to try not to lose patience with other potentially valuable members of the community.

5) If you are really annoyed by something someone has done, leave them feedback and add them to your ignore list. There is no reason to flame them. Now, trash talk is something completely different. If you want to trash talk someone, do it appropriately. It should only be done by a) players who have previously played each other [something like "I own you" or "I'm gonna get revenge on you"]; b) players who know each other in Real Life or are doubles partners; and c) players in the same tournament [here it should be more of brag upon yourself - like "I prayed to the dice gods, and they have promised me victory"].

This individual ( and i use the term loosely) is an excellent example of why we need flame wars. Do the rest of you non flamers actually want a site where self righteous, long winded, morons like this can whine and complain unchecked? The flame forum keeps them somewhat in line, because they are essentially cowards, and when challenged and flamed, most of them will STFU and keep their sniveling, self righteous whining at home. The type of people who vote to get rid of flame wars are the ones who want 4 way stop signs on every freakin corner, as they want life to be utterly safe, predictable, and hermetically wrapped. They are turning America swiftly into a nation of politically correct droids who can't think for themselves, and so they elect leaders who subvert and compromise our freedoms in return for an illusion of safety. "Aerialattack", i'm holding my tongue here, out of respect for the rules, but i'll have a thread in your honor over in the flame forum so everyone can see whether or not you have the backbone to defend your opinions under fire (why am i skeptical as to whether or not you even show up?). Why do i pick on you? Come to flame wars and find out sweetie. Cheers.


Honibaz

[V.I.]

BK said it best. You wanna talk trash about the Flame Forum? Step into the jungle and state your case, Nancy-boy. We're not all children or self-confessed pedophiles; some actually discourse on things more important than flatulence, sexual preference or oozing sores. But not usually.



You know where to find us, cowards.

[Herakilla]

BK said it best. You wanna talk trash about the Flame Forum? Step into the jungle and state your case, Nancy-boy. We're not all children or self-confessed pedophiles; some actually discourse on things more important than flatulence, sexual preference or oozing sores. But not usually.



You know where to find us, cowards.

you have 48 posts and judging by the quality of this one i doubt ANY of them contribute anything at all

[b.k. barunt]

Ah - i see - # of posts = intelligence. Brilliant! Where i come from we call that diarrhea of the mouth. Sorry to bust your bubble there genius.


Honibaz

[Dancing Mustard]

you have 48 posts and judging by the quality of this one i doubt ANY of them contribute anything at all

While we appreciate unpleasant jibes and snide remarks, we can't help but notice that the quoted post contained no valid arguments or attempts at rationale debate. In fact, we think personal attacks on other posters like that would be far better kept to Flame Wars. They most certainly ought to be kept out of threads in which you personally are attempting to argue that there is no place whatsoever for flaming on CC.




Tell me HK Was the irony of what you were saying lost on you when you posted it? Or did you need me to point it out with that sarcastic remark? Seriously, if you're going to attempt to argue that FW ought to be deleted because it encourages poor forum behaivour then it'll help your cause a great deal if you don't indulge in precisely that behaivour yourself.



By the way, have you got any empirically demonstrable arguments about why FW ought to be deleted yet, or are we still waiting for those?

[Beastly]

What a load of balls. you don't like it? Don't enter the forum. I REALLY don't know why this is even a bloody issue. It's really simple: don't like it, don't go in there. The forum even has a disclaimer, too. I don't, and cant see, why any of it is such a issue.

You would surely be accepted in flame wars

[V.I.]

Herakilla, I'm sorry if the photo reminds you of your current state of life, you shouldn't feel ashamed for things outside of your control, like sphincter command. Hate to say I told you so, but plunger handles just don't belong up there. Neither does your fat head.

At any rate, join us in the Jungle, you'd have a fun time I think. Bring your thesaurus. And your pet stegosaurus. And some bum lube.

[OnlyAmbrose]

Why on earth would you get rid of flame wars? The regulars would just rant elsewhere... and I like the Clubhouse how it is.

Not to mention if I'm ever having a bad day I just have to go into flame wars and read one of b.k.'s posts or threads. Enough to cheer me up any day

[muy_thaiguy]

Why on earth would you get rid of flame wars? The regulars would just rant elsewhere... and I like the Clubhouse how it is.

Not to mention if I'm ever having a bad day I just have to go into flame wars and read one of b.k.'s posts or threads. Enough to cheer me up any day

QFT.

[silvanricky]

Free speech means just that. If you don't like the Flame Wars don't go there.

[MOBAJOBG]

Are you going to dictate peoples' freedom to choose how they live?

[Backglass]

Free speech means just that. If you don't like the Flame Wars don't go there.

Free speech does not apply to a privately owned, Canadian website.

This is Lacks playground and he can ban anything he wants too.

[muy_thaiguy]

Free speech means just that. If you don't like the Flame Wars don't go there.

Free speech does not apply to a privately owned, Canadian website.

This is Lacks playground and he can ban anything he wants too.

And I think he added Flame Wars for a reason.

[PhatJoey]

So many arguments in favor of allowing the lowest common denominator to ruin this site . . . so few truly intelligent reasons to keep the status quo.

Aside from Free Speech (heaven opens . . . beams of light shine down onto Man . . . angels sing), which has been grossly mis-translated to mean "you can say anything you want" (guess what . . you can't), the entire idea of giving them an area in which to vent, spew, rant, rave, FLAME anyone or everyone so that they won't boil over into other areas is ludicrous. It already happens all the time which is why the mods end up moving threads there. It already happens all the time when your avatar is a flaming hand gesturing an obscenity or your location proudly proclaims that your location is "Doing some other players mother." It also happens when you go to the forums page and there is some subject line full of filth announcing the last post to the Flame Wars forum.

Getting back to Free Speech for a moment, just walk into any police station in America and tell a police officer to go f*** himself and see how long it takes him to write you a ticket for violating an obscenity law. Free Speech gives you the right to espouse any idea, it does not give you the right to deliver it in a manner that is considered obscene. Or perhaps you should just mention the word "bomb" while standing in the line at the airport and see just what your freedom of speech gets you!

Can you say "rubber glove" boys and girls? I knew you could!

Anyway . . . to attend to the argument that they are mostly teenagers who already know all the words anyway . . . Hey let's just allow our teenagers to do anything they already know about because, well they already know about it!! What a brilliant concept! People can do anything they want because they already know about it. Wow. I don't really need to chase that one down. It's lack of complete worth is so obvious it makes the word "dumb" obsolete. How about we expect people to act in a decent manner because they "already know about it"?

As far as keeping them out of the other forums by giving them a space. The rules are the rules. It's not our fault that the mods refuse to enforce their own rules by banning these people. If they actually did that, they would have a few weeks of hell, but afterwards I think they might find that their job would actually become a lot easier.

[Herakilla]

So many arguments in favor of allowing the lowest common denominator to ruin this site . . . so few truly intelligent reasons to keep the status quo.

Aside from Free Speech (heaven opens . . . beams of light shine down onto Man . . . angels sing), which has been grossly mis-translated to mean "you can say anything you want" (guess what . . you can't), the entire idea of giving them an area in which to vent, spew, rant, rave, FLAME anyone or everyone so that they won't boil over into other areas is ludicrous. It already happens all the time which is why the mods end up moving threads there. It already happens all the time when your avatar is a flaming hand gesturing an obscenity or your location proudly proclaims that your location is "Doing some other players mother." It also happens when you go to the forums page and there is some subject line full of filth announcing the last post to the Flame Wars forum.

Getting back to Free Speech for a moment, just walk into any police station in America and tell a police officer to go f*** himself and see how long it takes him to write you a ticket for violating an obscenity law. Free Speech gives you the right to espouse any idea, it does not give you the right to deliver it in a manner that is considered obscene. Or perhaps you should just mention the word "bomb" while standing in the line at the airport and see just what your freedom of speech gets you!

Can you say "rubber glove" boys and girls? I knew you could!

Anyway . . . to attend to the argument that they are mostly teenagers who already know all the words anyway . . . Hey let's just allow our teenagers to do anything they already know about because, well they already know about it!! What a brilliant concept! People can do anything they want because they already know about it. Wow. I don't really need to chase that one down. It's lack of complete worth is so obvious it makes the word "dumb" obsolete. How about we expect people to act in a decent manner because they "already know about it"?

As far as keeping them out of the other forums by giving them a space. The rules are the rules. It's not our fault that the mods refuse to enforce their own rules by banning these people. If they actually did that, they would have a few weeks of hell, but afterwards I think they might find that their job would actually become a lot easier.

[jiminski]

So many arguments in favor of allowing the lowest common denominator to ruin this site . . . so few truly intelligent reasons to keep the status quo.

Aside from Free Speech (heaven opens . . . beams of light shine down onto Man . . . angels sing), which has been grossly mis-translated to mean "you can say anything you want" (guess what . . you can't), the entire idea of giving them an area in which to vent, spew, rant, rave, FLAME anyone or everyone so that they won't boil over into other areas is ludicrous. It already happens all the time which is why the mods end up moving threads there. It already happens all the time when your avatar is a flaming hand gesturing an obscenity or your location proudly proclaims that your location is "Doing some other players mother." It also happens when you go to the forums page and there is some subject line full of filth announcing the last post to the Flame Wars forum.

Getting back to Free Speech for a moment, just walk into any police station in America and tell a police officer to go f*** himself and see how long it takes him to write you a ticket for violating an obscenity law. Free Speech gives you the right to espouse any idea, it does not give you the right to deliver it in a manner that is considered obscene. Or perhaps you should just mention the word "bomb" while standing in the line at the airport and see just what your freedom of speech gets you!

Can you say "rubber glove" boys and girls? I knew you could!

Anyway . . . to attend to the argument that they are mostly teenagers who already know all the words anyway . . . Hey let's just allow our teenagers to do anything they already know about because, well they already know about it!! What a brilliant concept! People can do anything they want because they already know about it. Wow. I don't really need to chase that one down. It's lack of complete worth is so obvious it makes the word "dumb" obsolete. How about we expect people to act in a decent manner because they "already know about it"?

As far as keeping them out of the other forums by giving them a space. The rules are the rules. It's not our fault that the mods refuse to enforce their own rules by banning these people. If they actually did that, they would have a few weeks of hell, but afterwards I think they might find that their job would actually become a lot easier.

You are making a parallel between a false bomb threat and a few people saying shit, bugger and having a flaming bird in their avatar....
hehehe on this and all other points in your post you need to get a little perspective mate.

As to Intelligent reason for flame Wars to stay open..... well you are lobbying to get it shut therefore the burden of proof is upon you. There have been no reasons given at all other than 'oooh it's icky' (i paraphrase) and 'every time i go it offends me more!.... but i must keep going for the good of the site and the world in general!'
It's such a bad argument on your part i was even going to ignore it... but hey i'll just keep going for the good of the debate!

The very simple fact is that no one has to visit there but many do... i don't see why you feel it is your right to interfere in anyones pleasure. (please, no facile parallels including people having fun exacting physical pain on others)

Your justification for closure: Flaming is not the correct way to behave!

Ok perhaps it would be nicer if every one just said 'have a nice day' and '.. you know i love you!'
Very nice sentiments and i don't mock them in any way but life would be a little colourless! And when we do say the nice things would they not be trite and meaningless?

The aggressive tone in FlameWars is pantomime..it is high jinx! The entertainment comes from having an area where a damn fine vicious bit of mockery is expected and not real... let me say this again 'not real!'

There can be as much friendship and comradery in flamewars as anywhere; it depends upon nuance and subtlety and careful esoteric interplay!
Yes i understand that this can be missed but it is there and the place is far less one-dimensional than you seem to understand.

But let's not get carried away on that front! this is a place where people go to meet and blow off steam and where they come to challenge all comers and lock horns in mental joust! Some of that includes nothing but mindless tirades of expletive but much of it does not!
Some of it involves rudeness and outrageous statement (in the main as exercises to highlight comfortable hypocrisies)... but you know.. i bet you would be hard pushed, when you truly boil it all down, to find a group of people with higher moral responsibility and more genuine understanding of the nasty contradictions of civilisation!

These are not people who waste time trying to stop others saying 'unsuitable' words. These are people who rage against the night and cast aspersions on pious men with dark and controlling hearts!

[wrestler1ump]

Time for this thread to be locked up. It has become a flaming thread, and that is something we need to avoid on this site.

If you guys do not like the idea of a site without a flame forum, then don't come to the site. Wicked, Twill, Lackattack and the rest of the moderating staff set the rules and guidelines. If you don't like it, go somewhere else.

[Syzygy]

Time for this thread to be locked up. It has become a flaming thread, and that is something we need to avoid on this site.

If you guys do not like the idea of a site without a flame forum, then don't come to the site. Wicked, Twill, Lackattack and the rest of the moderating staff set the rules and guidelines. If you don't like it, go somewhere else.