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USA 2.1

Postby BigBallinStalin on Mon Apr 21, 2014 1:28 am

I thought this map was still in the beta stage. It's fuckin' awful looking. Takes about 2 hours to process all that visual garbage. It's got city names possibly referring to multiple cities. It's ridiculous! And look at the legend of 40+ city names which couldn't fit. What a mess. The dotted lines and ovals for the deploy simply make the map harder to view. This map is the second biggest piece of visual shit I've seen on CC (the Easter map gets first place).


inb4: "myeh, myeh, myeh, you should've complained earlier." I'm sure people have already complained about its appearance.

How did this map end up like it is? What the f*ck happened at the Foundry?
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Re: USA 2.1

Postby nietzsche on Mon Apr 21, 2014 3:29 am

Hey quitter.
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Re: USA 2.1

Postby AndyDufresne on Mon Apr 21, 2014 1:51 pm

The "key" element does stink, I am remember disliking that when it seemed like it was the only way to go. I also didn't like the choice of yellow army shadows/ovals -- and I think I suggested white text in stead of black, since there is so much black on the map dividing other things.

It's a fun map to play on every now and again, but not one to add to a regular rotation, if I still had a regular rotation.


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Re: USA 2.1

Postby Army of GOD on Mon Apr 21, 2014 3:18 pm

maybe someone should stop bitching
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Re: USA 2.1

Postby owenshooter on Mon Apr 21, 2014 3:59 pm

usually the next version of a map is supposed to be better... that map is a shit storm... just horrible... the black jesus is flabbergasted... -el Jesus negro
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Re: USA 2.1

Postby ManBungalow on Mon Apr 21, 2014 5:22 pm

Clickable maps make it easier to use.
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Re: USA 2.1

Postby Gilligan on Mon Apr 21, 2014 5:45 pm

ManBungalow wrote:Clickable maps make it easier to use.


I find it crazy how many territory names I don't know on recent maps because of clickies. It makes life so much easier.
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Re: USA 2.1

Postby nietzsche on Mon Apr 21, 2014 6:05 pm

ManBungalow wrote:Clickable maps make it easier to use.


Who are you?
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Re: USA 2.1

Postby owenshooter on Mon Apr 21, 2014 6:15 pm

ManBungalow wrote:Clickable maps make it easier to use.

i don't use cheats... the black jesus keeps the battle field level... the black jesus has spoken...-el Jesus negro
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Re: USA 2.1

Postby Gilligan on Mon Apr 21, 2014 6:16 pm

owenshooter wrote:
ManBungalow wrote:Clickable maps make it easier to use.

i don't use cheats... the black jesus keeps the battle field level... the black jesus has spoken...-el Jesus negro


how does that keep the battlefield level in casual games? i can understand speed games, but i fail to see your point in casual games.
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Re: USA 2.1

Postby owenshooter on Mon Apr 21, 2014 6:32 pm

Gilligan wrote:
owenshooter wrote:
ManBungalow wrote:Clickable maps make it easier to use.

i don't use cheats... the black jesus keeps the battle field level... the black jesus has spoken...-el Jesus negro


how does that keep the battlefield level in casual games? i can understand speed games, but i fail to see your point in casual games.

it gives everyone a chance against me that can download cheats to compete against my superior skills... and seriously, can we get back to how this atrocity was able to make it out of the foundry?! you shouldn't have to use an add/on-cheat to read a map and compete on it. that thing is unbearable to even look at... such a cluster f*ck... the black jesus has spoken yet again...-el Jesus negro
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Re: USA 2.1

Postby macbone on Tue Apr 22, 2014 4:36 am

I far prefer it to the original maps. It's a lot easier to get around, and there are far less bottlenecks. Viva USA 2.1!
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Re: USA 2.1

Postby iAmCaffeine on Wed Apr 23, 2014 9:04 am

Saying anything bad about a map, ever, gets nowhere.
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Re: USA 2.1

Postby BigBallinStalin on Wed Apr 23, 2014 10:25 am

iAmCaffeine wrote:Saying anything bad about a map, ever, gets nowhere.


Sure, it does! I got from feeling annoyed to feeling relieved. Whenever I view USA 2.1, I say, "what a piece of shit!" but smile and go on my way.
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Re: USA 2.1

Postby iAmCaffeine on Wed Apr 23, 2014 10:35 am

BigBallinStalin wrote:
iAmCaffeine wrote:Saying anything bad about a map, ever, gets nowhere.


Sure, it does! I got from feeling annoyed to feeling relieved. Whenever I view USA 2.1, I say, "what a piece of shit!" but smile and go on my way.


Not what I was getting at, but that made me smile too.
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Re: USA 2.1

Postby Army of GOD on Wed Apr 23, 2014 10:36 am

As I said in the other thread, I thought you were talking about World 2.1 because I had no idea that USA 2.1 was an actual thing.

holy shit USA 2.1 looks awful. Looking at it is like taking a giant horse-sized dildo up my asshole.
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Re: USA 2.1

Postby iAmCaffeine on Wed Apr 23, 2014 10:40 am

Try looking at Promontory Summit or Philadelphia.
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Re: USA 2.1

Postby BigBallinStalin on Wed Apr 23, 2014 10:56 am

Army of GOD wrote:As I said in the other thread, I thought you were talking about World 2.1 because I had no idea that USA 2.1 was an actual thing.

holy shit USA 2.1 looks awful. Looking at it is like taking a giant horse-sized dildo up my asshole.


You would mix up USA with The World. Typical American. Tut, tut, tut, AoG. Tut, tut, tut.
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Re: USA 2.1

Postby owenshooter on Wed Apr 23, 2014 3:19 pm

iAmCaffeine wrote:Try looking at Promontory Summit or Philadelphia.

and they won't let Vace Cooper finish his "Vomit" map... i can see why now, they have enough vomit maps coming out of the foundry, his would be redundant... the black jesus has cracked wise...-el Jesus negro
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Re: USA 2.1

Postby Mr Changsha on Fri Apr 25, 2014 2:33 am

As a game it has many positive points (try it large standard nukes)..the problem is I think that if you aren't using BOB it is a big challenge to make yourself read what is going on. I loved it when I was using BOB, now I'm not and so am not setting up anymore games on it.

As a lover of large maps I support usa2.1. I suppose I wonder if it is just TOO big?

Overall 8/10. Great gameplay, looks pretty awful...
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Re: USA 2.1

Postby owenshooter on Fri Apr 25, 2014 10:53 pm

Mr Changsha wrote:As a game it has many positive points (try it large standard nukes)..the problem is I think that if you aren't using BOB it is a big challenge to make yourself read what is going on. I loved it when I was using BOB, now I'm not and so am not setting up anymore games on it.

As a lover of large maps I support usa2.1. I suppose I wonder if it is just TOO big?

Overall 8/10. Great gameplay, looks pretty awful...

aaaand, here come the dick jokes... the black jesus has seen the future...-el Jesus negro

p.s.-if you need an add/on to play a map, something is wrong with the map...
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Re: USA 2.1

Postby thenobodies80 on Sat Apr 26, 2014 7:20 am

BigBallinStalin wrote:inb4: "myeh, myeh, myeh, you should've complained earlier." I'm sure people have already complained about its appearance.

How did this map end up like it is? What the f*ck happened at the Foundry?


Exactly for the reason you posted, almost no one complained about it.
This map reached the Beta stage on April 2013, the 17th viewtopic.php?f=358&t=152467&start=525#p4140050
This map was quenched on March 2014, the 16th viewtopic.php?f=358&t=152467&start=720#p4444231

In 11 months almost no one has expressed a so hard and, let me say, frank opinion of the map. I remember when i send the files to BMO, he expressed a few concerns about the map, concerns that in part i share. But considering that we were just discussing between us two, we had to move on and just wait and see if our concerns were shared also by other players.
It has not happened.
Well, in this case what i can do? nothing! My role is to oversee the process, no rule it.

I will never stop to say to people like you or owenshooter to come to the foundry and tell us if a product (a map) is shit or if it has something really wrong.
We really need people who speaks frankly; the only thing I always ask is to not come there and just say: "this map is ugly, i don't like it." but at least care to explain why you don't like it and/or post what you suggest to make it better.

What happend to the Foundry? Simple. We're suffering for the "old days decisions" and "technical limitations".
Let me explain in detail these 2 elements:

- Old days decisions: Those of you who were here in the old days are well aware about what i'm talking about. There has been a time in which there was a sort of "war" between the foundry group and some CC members. People who disliked other people without a real reason, people who was kicked out from the foundry for just speaking out of the group. People who stoppped to listen to the others just because "they didn't know what they were talking about".....all these things caused an half death of the foundry.
Today I want to stress about the fact that that type of behaviour has been "banned" from the foundry, in part because the people who caused and promoted that behaviour is is no longer here.
I don't want to accuse this group of people for "the hard time" we are having, but honestly think that since you are not able to draw a map makes you unable to say if something is wrong it's a nonsense.
If it's true that draw maps require skill, it's also true that the final product must be played. And, like a normal board game, you need customers and you need to listen to them; on the contrary you will end to play your map alone.
If you see finally we're going in that direction, we don't have behind the scenes maps, we have a testing ground now (everyone can take part to it), we still have a public discussion, we still force mapmakers to respond in a thoughtfull manner to all suggestions and take them into consideration.
Certainly there's more to do, the foundry needs a long cure, a necessary cure that will require time and lot of work. In any case it is better than decide to run away and make your own toy just because you don't like the one you have now. :twisted:
So, there's a light at the end of the tunnel. The foundry is no longer the place "we are better than you so shut up". Come there and suggest, say if you think a map is ugly, say what you like and what you don't like, help us to make the product you will play better. If you post something usefull, objective and true (so not just say this map sucks and run away) I will be always on your side and I will work to make sure that a compromise is found. My #1 rule is: if you don't want to listen what people say, draw maps for yourself to play at home with your friends, not here because the foundry is a open process with a precise task.

-technical limitations: A map like Usa 2.1 needs more space, a different UI. Infact, even if I fighted a lot to have a different UI to allow larger maps...at some point, after a strike and other 1000 post/PMs to admins i stopped to ask and waste time. Probably it was my fault. Probably I had to say to isaiah40 to wait because there's no technical support to make a so large map clear enough with what we had, probably in that case the friend behind the foreman has step in and didn't find the way to cut a friend's project. I apologize for this.

Said that i see there's a lot of people who like the map as it is now and maybe just reply to you saying that we have so many maps that you can live without playing this one could seem a dumb reply, but since i can't change what it has happend in past, the only thing that we can do is to post in the foundry and tell to mapmakers when a map has something wrong, without any fear instead of wait a map is quenched and then start a topic about it in GD.

Guys, i really want the people stop to think about the foundry as an automated process in which maps are done in any case, we need you all, we need your thoughts. And don't tell me you don't know what to say or what it's needed. Comment a map is one of the easier things you can do, it requires just a bit of time. It's like when you are in a shop and you decide to buy a product instead of another. There could be some reasons (techincal, liking, etc) and maybe you are not an expert on all these aspects, but, in any case, you always know why you decide to buy something. What the foundry needs is to know why you will "buy or not" the next map.

Essentially this is what happened to the foundry in the last few years, no one cared about it.
Now, if you really care about map production (and i think you do) please come into the foundry and tell us we're doing wrong.
You're always welcome.

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Re: USA 2.1

Postby thenobodies80 on Sat Apr 26, 2014 7:40 am

owenshooter wrote:p.s.-if you need an add/on to play a map, something is wrong with the map...


Agree. Maps should be playable without add ons. But in this case what is wrong isn't the map itself ( I mean the idea behind it), but how the mapmakers had to do it just because no one gave them what it was necessary to do it.
I don't know if it's a known thing, but that map has produced during the worst period for the foundry.

Luckily bigWham is supporting us a lot nowdays and he is willing to change lot of things to make all future maps more compelling, nice and unique.
I ask you all to be a bit more patient (there's a lot to do) and help us posting/commenting in the foundry. I remember when you were used to post there, i remember when you were virtually kicked out of the foundry just because you were considered unpopular/annoying.
I have always found your way to say things funny and rarely I've not seen a reason behind your words....yeah maybe there were better/more kind way to tell things but we all know that "a rose by any other name would smell as sweet".
I do NOT visit this site and I'm NOT Team CC anymore.
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Re: USA 2.1

Postby DiM on Sat Apr 26, 2014 10:09 am

thenobodies80 wrote: that map has produced during the worst period for the foundry.



there was a period worse than now? i honestly can't imagine how this could be possible. i mean at this point it looks like it was abandoned by everybody.

hardly anybody comes to the foundry to give feedback and on the rare occasions when somebody does offer some feedback the map makers don't even bother answering for 4-5-6 weeks. there was a time when a map went from idea to quenched in 4-6 weeks.

so yeah, sadly the foundry is dead. and it's a real shame cause bigwham really tries. if we had this kind of support a few years ago, the foundry would have been phenomenal.
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Re: USA 2.1

Postby JCR on Sat Apr 26, 2014 11:07 am

Excellent reply thenobodies80. Few people these days accept and explain their challenges without getting defensive or worse responding with personal attacks. =D>
I have spent very little time in the foundry due to the earlier culture you referenced.
I have very little skills in mapmaking outside of "drawing" my own as a kid. I have to say that was the first thing that got me excited about this site.
I Loved the idea of the maps.
I will likely be coming by the foundry to see how I can contribute.
One overall suggestion though is simple, There are a LOT of maps on this site. Perhaps at this point the focus should be on quality over quantity being produced.
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