BigBallinStalin wrote:inb4: "myeh, myeh, myeh, you should've complained earlier." I'm sure people have already complained about its appearance.
How did this map end up like it is? What the f*ck happened at the Foundry?
Exactly for the reason you posted, almost no one complained about it.
This map reached the Beta stage on April 2013, the 17th viewtopic.php?f=358&t=152467&start=525#p4140050
This map was quenched on March 2014, the 16th viewtopic.php?f=358&t=152467&start=720#p4444231
In 11 months almost no one has expressed a so hard and, let me say, frank opinion of the map. I remember when i send the files to BMO, he expressed a few concerns about the map, concerns that in part i share. But considering that we were just discussing between us two, we had to move on and just wait and see if our concerns were shared also by other players.
It has not happened.
Well, in this case what i can do? nothing! My role is to oversee the process, no rule it.
I will never stop to say to people like you or owenshooter to come to the foundry and tell us if a product (a map) is shit or if it has something really wrong.
We really need people who speaks frankly; the only thing I always ask is to not come there and just say: "this map is ugly, i don't like it." but at least care to explain why you don't like it and/or post what you suggest to make it better.
What happend to the Foundry? Simple. We're suffering for the "old days decisions" and "technical limitations".
Let me explain in detail these 2 elements:
- Old days decisions: Those of you who were here in the old days are well aware about what i'm talking about. There has been a time in which there was a sort of "war" between the foundry group and some CC members. People who disliked other people without a real reason, people who was kicked out from the foundry for just speaking out of the group. People who stoppped to listen to the others just because "they didn't know what they were talking about".....all these things caused an half death of the foundry.
Today I want to stress about the fact that that type of behaviour has been "banned" from the foundry, in part because the people who caused and promoted that behaviour is is no longer here.
I don't want to accuse this group of people for "the hard time" we are having, but honestly think that since you are not able to draw a map makes you unable to say if something is wrong it's a nonsense.
If it's true that draw maps require skill, it's also true that the final product must be played. And, like a normal board game, you need customers and you need to listen to them; on the contrary you will end to play your map alone.
If you see finally we're going in that direction, we don't have behind the scenes maps, we have a testing ground now (everyone can take part to it), we still have a public discussion, we still force mapmakers to respond in a thoughtfull manner to all suggestions and take them into consideration.
Certainly there's more to do, the foundry needs a long cure, a necessary cure that will require time and lot of work. In any case it is better than decide to run away and make your own toy just because you don't like the one you have now.
So, there's a light at the end of the tunnel. The foundry is no longer the place "we are better than you so shut up". Come there and suggest, say if you think a map is ugly, say what you like and what you don't like, help us to make the product you will play better. If you post something usefull, objective and true (so not just say this map sucks and run away) I will be always on your side and I will work to make sure that a compromise is found. My #1 rule is: if you don't want to listen what people say, draw maps for yourself to play at home with your friends, not here because the foundry is a open process with a precise task.
-technical limitations: A map like Usa 2.1 needs more space, a different UI. Infact, even if I fighted a lot to have a different UI to allow larger maps...at some point, after a strike and other 1000 post/PMs to admins i stopped to ask and waste time. Probably it was my fault. Probably I had to say to isaiah40 to wait because there's no technical support to make a so large map clear enough with what we had, probably in that case the friend behind the foreman has step in and didn't find the way to cut a friend's project. I apologize for this.
Said that i see there's a lot of people who like the map as it is now and maybe just reply to you saying that we have so many maps that you can live without playing this one could seem a dumb reply, but since i can't change what it has happend in past, the only thing that we can do is to post in the foundry and tell to mapmakers when a map has something wrong, without any fear instead of wait a map is quenched and then start a topic about it in GD.
Guys, i really want the people stop to think about the foundry as an automated process in which maps are done in any case, we need you all, we need your thoughts. And don't tell me you don't know what to say or what it's needed. Comment a map is one of the easier things you can do, it requires just a bit of time. It's like when you are in a shop and you decide to buy a product instead of another. There could be some reasons (techincal, liking, etc) and maybe you are not an expert on all these aspects, but, in any case, you always know why you decide to buy something. What the foundry needs is to know why you will "buy or not" the next map.
Essentially this is what happened to the foundry in the last few years, no one cared about it.
Now, if you really care about map production (and i think you do) please come into the foundry and tell us we're doing wrong.
You're always welcome.