Are you fed up?

[owenator]

Sick and tired of how things get too personal and how your money, although not a largely significant amount - is still money, and yet you are not seeing it's value? Fed up with the admins/mods and the way that their power has been executed, and we - the customer, have absolutely no way to do anything about it? Perhaps, it's time that we did.

Maybe an idea to sign-up, and create a petition or a group for those who are PREMIUM members and want some sort of resolve to dictate how things should REALLY be run. Perhaps, we can also state and post when our premium membership runs out and that way we can tabulate who has 'leverage' to simply finally put a stop to what seems to be an abuse of their powers. Suggestions, ideas, thoughts? Post them here. Don't use it to flame, bait, tell us how frustrated you are sometimes. Again, provide your thoughts on HOW to stop this trend of admins/mods getting out of hand with the responsibilities given to them.

[thegreekdog]

I think a petition would be effective. However, I'm not sure how one could create a petition without the thread becoming a vehicle for flames, arguments, and the like. Perhaps more senior members of CC can help with this sort of thing. I think we should also be clear and concise on what exactly we want.

[pimpdave]

items for the petition

1. Getting Dancing Mustard back.

2. A suspension of all permanent forum bannings until community generated guidelines can be established.



that's my two cents at the moment.

[owenator]

nice job with the ideas thus far pimp. If one is to be permanently banned from ever playing CC again, then depending on the circumstances they should perhaps also be entitled to a partial refund. If one is given a temporary 'vacation' then we as paying members should be entitled to a 'freeze' on our premium so that the enjoyment of our paid membership and having FULL benefits is not affected.

[thegreekdog]

nice job with the ideas thus far pimp. If one is to be permanently banned from ever playing CC again, then depending on the circumstances they should perhaps also be entitled to a partial refund. If one is given a temporary 'vacation' then we as paying members should be entitled to a 'freeze' on our premium so that the enjoyment of our paid membership and having FULL benefits is not affected.

As an addendum to this and in consideration to what I think will be an argument, when one signs up for conquer club one is not required to read and/or agree to the rules before signing up. In other words, there is no contract per se between the conquer club player and the conquer club website that specifies any rules. The contract may be implied, but it is certainly not explicit. Just my two cents.

[Fruitcake]

Perhaps some kind of input from an elected cc members body before final judgements are taken.

I put this forward with little hope, after all, there have been many examples of how the community could help police itself that have been ignored.

[Fruitcake]

nice job with the ideas thus far pimp. If one is to be permanently banned from ever playing CC again, then depending on the circumstances they should perhaps also be entitled to a partial refund. If one is given a temporary 'vacation' then we as paying members should be entitled to a 'freeze' on our premium so that the enjoyment of our paid membership and having FULL benefits is not affected.

As an addendum to this and in consideration to what I think will be an argument, when one signs up for conquer club one is not required to read and/or agree to the rules before signing up. In other words, there is no contract per se between the conquer club player and the conquer club website that specifies any rules. The contract may be implied, but it is certainly not explicit. Just my two cents.

I disagree. There is most definitely a contract between cc and members. Contracts do not have to be written or signed, they are taken as de facto if two parties exchange consideration. This happens when any one pays a premium.

[owenator]

Perhaps some kind of input from an elected cc members body before final judgements are taken.

I put this forward with little hope, after all, there have been many examples of how the community could help police itself that have been ignored.

FC, that's why I specifically mentioned that premium members would have the ability to perhaps formulate the rise against the 'powers above'. Lack doesn't pay these guys to do the work, but obviously personal bias is evidently seen and I think that as paid members we don't have very many rights. Lack makes a comfortable living on this site from OUR money. So, by putting some kind of threat to stop the unnecessary abuse of powers, if the premium members can come to a general agreement to NOT renew our membership then we would certainly have our voices heard. It's not very hard to do, to be honest....all you have to do is get enough people who aren't happy about the way things are run, and go through with their actions.

[pimpdave]

I'll put my money where my mouth is, too. If we can be assured of some fundamental changes, I'll re-up on my membership.

[Kotaro]

I'm fed up with all the bitching, yes.

[thegreekdog]

nice job with the ideas thus far pimp. If one is to be permanently banned from ever playing CC again, then depending on the circumstances they should perhaps also be entitled to a partial refund. If one is given a temporary 'vacation' then we as paying members should be entitled to a 'freeze' on our premium so that the enjoyment of our paid membership and having FULL benefits is not affected.

As an addendum to this and in consideration to what I think will be an argument, when one signs up for conquer club one is not required to read and/or agree to the rules before signing up. In other words, there is no contract per se between the conquer club player and the conquer club website that specifies any rules. The contract may be implied, but it is certainly not explicit. Just my two cents.

I disagree. There is most definitely a contract between cc and members. Contracts do not have to be written or signed, they are taken as de facto if two parties exchange consideration. This happens when any one pays a premium.

We'll have to agree to disagree then. The contract between CC and its members do not involve a member abiding by the rules. In other words, I sign no document, I read no document, that requires me to, for example, not troll, when I throw my money down for CC. There is a privacy policy, that's about it. There isn't even a requirement to read the rules before signing up.

[jpcloet]

items for the petition
1. Getting Dancing Mustard back.
2. A suspension of all permanent forum bannings until community generated guidelines can be established.
that's my two cents at the moment.

This thread seems to be heading in the General Discussion area, and not so much a callout anymore. However, I have seen a number of valid arguments from both sides. The best question is what is the best way to deal with the current situations. After consideration, I'm going to move this to GD. There are several other threads related to this there.

[saxitoxin]

Sick and tired of how things get too personal and how your money, although not a largely significant amount - is still money, and yet you are not seeing it's value?

No.

There are a lot of problem personalities here. I wholeheartedly support their widespread culling by judicial and equitable site admins.

The supposed "anonymity" of the internet does not excuse bad behavior. Aggressive enforcement of reasonable expectations of civility is a necessary mitigation to the natural excesses of online interactions.

Anyone who disagrees with this sentiment should go F themselves.

Thanks, owenator!

[Fruitcake]

Perhaps some kind of input from an elected cc members body before final judgements are taken.

I put this forward with little hope, after all, there have been many examples of how the community could help police itself that have been ignored.

FC, that's why I specifically mentioned that premium members would have the ability to perhaps formulate the rise against the 'powers above'. Lack doesn't pay these guys to do the work, but obviously personal bias is evidently seen and I think that as paid members we don't have very many rights. Lack makes a comfortable living on this site from OUR money. So, by putting some kind of threat to stop the unnecessary abuse of powers, if the premium members can come to a general agreement to NOT renew our membership then we would certainly have our voices heard. It's not very hard to do, to be honest....all you have to do is get enough people who aren't happy about the way things are run, and go through with their actions.

Then perhaps the first step would be to form a cc consumers society/association off site. Gather enough members and you suddenly have a voice to be reckoned with. This would also act as an acid test to whether people are really interested. I imagine that should such a body collectively speak for many hundreds of paying members then the admin would have to take notice.

[owenator]

Perhaps some kind of input from an elected cc members body before final judgements are taken.

I put this forward with little hope, after all, there have been many examples of how the community could help police itself that have been ignored.

FC, that's why I specifically mentioned that premium members would have the ability to perhaps formulate the rise against the 'powers above'. Lack doesn't pay these guys to do the work, but obviously personal bias is evidently seen and I think that as paid members we don't have very many rights. Lack makes a comfortable living on this site from OUR money. So, by putting some kind of threat to stop the unnecessary abuse of powers, if the premium members can come to a general agreement to NOT renew our membership then we would certainly have our voices heard. It's not very hard to do, to be honest....all you have to do is get enough people who aren't happy about the way things are run, and go through with their actions.

Then perhaps the first step would be to form a cc consumers society/association off site. Gather enough members and you suddenly have a voice to be reckoned with. This would also act as an acid test to whether people are really interested. I imagine that should such a body collectively speak for many hundreds of paying members then the admin would have to take notice.

People are lazy enough as it is. If it's come to the point where a gross misconduct of the admin/mod powers and how they use it has never been contested before, then it is unlikely that people would go off-site and form a collective body. Which is why I posted here. I think if we were serious enough, think of it like signing up for a CC tournament. Even form a user-group and then start from there.

[Night Strike]

items for the petition

1. Getting Dancing Mustard back.

2. A suspension of all permanent forum bannings until community generated guidelines can be established.

nice job with the ideas thus far pimp. If one is to be permanently banned from ever playing CC again, then depending on the circumstances they should perhaps also be entitled to a partial refund. If one is given a temporary 'vacation' then we as paying members should be entitled to a 'freeze' on our premium so that the enjoyment of our paid membership and having FULL benefits is not affected.

owenator, your post doesn't flow from the points pimpdave posted. Both DM's ban and permanent forum bannings do not affect the status of said user's premium membership. Users who have been banned from the forum can still play games, therefore still getting what they paid for. Premium membership and forum status are two separate things.

As far as the "contract" agreeing to the rules of the site before purchasing premium, members already have to register for the site before they can buy a premium membership. It would make sense to read the Rules of the site before buying premium, and it's not the site's fault if someone doesn't do that. At the top of the Rules page, it says "Conquer Club reserves the right to suspend accounts and cancel Premium Memberships, with or without warning, of those players who are deemed to have violated the rules." That "contract" is already expressed on the site in a prominent place, even if it's not on the Premium Membership page.

[owenator]

items for the petition

1. Getting Dancing Mustard back.

2. A suspension of all permanent forum bannings until community generated guidelines can be established.

nice job with the ideas thus far pimp. If one is to be permanently banned from ever playing CC again, then depending on the circumstances they should perhaps also be entitled to a partial refund. If one is given a temporary 'vacation' then we as paying members should be entitled to a 'freeze' on our premium so that the enjoyment of our paid membership and having FULL benefits is not affected.

owenator, your post doesn't flow from the points pimpdave posted. Both DM's ban and permanent forum bannings do not affect the status of said user's premium membership. Users who have been banned from the forum can still play games, therefore still getting what they paid for. Premium membership and forum status are two separate things.

As far as the "contract" agreeing to the rules of the site before purchasing premium, members already have to register for the site before they can buy a premium membership. It would make sense to read the Rules of the site before buying premium, and it's not the site's fault if someone doesn't do that. At the top of the Rules page, it says "Conquer Club reserves the right to suspend accounts and cancel Premium Memberships, with or without warning, of those players who are deemed to have violated the rules." That "contract" is already expressed on the site in a prominent place, even if it's not on the Premium Membership page.

So, I have to post something that is in line with what pimpdave wrote? Or what? I'm going to suffer some sort of wrath and consequence for not having done so? My post was fine, thank you very much. If it were completely off-topic, then you'd have a point. As for DM's status, how does that not affect one's enjoyment of this site? So you take away, someone's freedom of speech - mind you, an online forum where he/she from my understanding had not flamed or baited someone and was banned? That's like telling someone basically to shut the F up. It's a GROSS abuse of power. You don't have to agree with me, but let me put into perspective...WE, the premium members are the reason why this site is operating. There are obviously some serious issues with the way things are happening lately, and quite frankly it's got out of hand. Remember, if this is a voluntary job, why take things personally?

Reading terms of service in any situation where money is involved is the responsibility of the purchaser. I can't stress that enough. But, again....it comes back to that never-ending circle where the value of the money is not well spent and the 'customer' is being treated extremely poorly.

[Night Strike]

Sorry if I wasn't clear. The reasons pimpdave posted are not tied to the money situation on this site. DM is still getting what he paid for, and he still has his premium membership. You can still play in games with him.

To actually answer your early post (since I failed to previously), the Rules page says no refunds, so why should people who get banned get money back? Getting a website ban is a very serious offense, and I think all the admins (even lack) are involved in the final decision. I also think it's a bad business decision to allow members to extend their premium membership just because they are unhappy. It would be impossible for lack to take time to do so, and anything that was user initiated would just be abused when people take personal vacations/time away from CC.

[F1fth]

Hey NS, how do you feel about this? I think it's a pretty good response to your latest post in this thread.

viewtopic.php?f=6&t=91670&start=30#p2110610

[PLAYER57832]

Sorry if I wasn't clear. The reasons pimpdave posted are not tied to the money situation on this site. DM is still getting what he paid for, and he still has his premium membership. You can still play in games with him.

Except the forums are very much a part of what attracts and keeps people here.

That said, as you also wrote, this is a private site. People who join do agree to follow the rules.

[niMic]

And the hysteria gets even worse. This is a privately owned entertainment game site on the internet. However much some people would like to portray it, it's neither Nazi Germany or the Gulags. I have no problem with people taking issue with certain bannings or site policies, but don't make it out like it's some right you have, to be able to play CC. Even if you've paid money for it, if you break the rules, you have nothing to say.

[whitestazn88]

i would say that by completely removing the moderating of posts, that this community would be much better. i mean, tournaments, clan stuff, maps, would definitely still need to be moderated, but the content of the posts should be disregarded.

e-thuggery and e-harassment are imaginary things just like leprechauns and aids.

EDIT: I guess not-

Click image to enlarge.

[Kotaro]

Sorry if I wasn't clear. The reasons pimpdave posted are not tied to the money situation on this site. DM is still getting what he paid for, and he still has his premium membership. You can still play in games with him.

Except the forums are very much a part of what attracts and keeps people here.

That said, as you also wrote, this is a private site. People who join do agree to follow the rules.

That makes zero difference. Many mods go on and on about how the forums are a privilege, and they aren't required to use them, nor are the admins required to give it. It's like one of those shiny, fancy gaming machines our parents used to give us as kids, all they're required to do is cloth and feed us, not buy us the shiny toys.

[Woodruff]

i would say that by completely removing the moderating of posts, that this community would be much better. i mean, tournaments, clan stuff, maps, would definitely still need to be moderated, but the content of the posts should be disregarded.

That would absolutely drive me away from the site. No question about it.

nice job with the ideas thus far pimp. If one is to be permanently banned from ever playing CC again, then depending on the circumstances they should perhaps also be entitled to a partial refund. If one is given a temporary 'vacation' then we as paying members should be entitled to a 'freeze' on our premium so that the enjoyment of our paid membership and having FULL benefits is not affected.

I disagree wholeheartedly. Why should you essentially get to play the games for free as a reward for being given a vacation? Because remember...the games don't stop during a vacation. Terrible idea.

[mibi]

i would say that by completely removing the moderating of posts, that this community would be much better. i mean, tournaments, clan stuff, maps, would definitely still need to be moderated, but the content of the posts should be disregarded.

That would absolutely drive me away from the site. No question about it.

Amen, moderating is largely an unnoticed servers but I have seen plenty of unmoderated forums, and the cesspools they invariable are, no thanks.