Two Sides Mafia: Side A, Endgame, The Old Ways

[pancakemix]

He wasn't upfront about why he was telling mafia to claim they were mafia in one of the games. I admit, I didn't see what his plan was, and I posted reasons it would backfire, but I can't see a good reason a mafia member would want other mafia to out themselves. I guess maybe if he's A mafia, and a B mafia claimed "mafia/town", he could confirm them as B mafia. But that runs a risk of giving himself away in A. If he's doing it strictly to catch scum, he's not going to come out and say "mafia should claim M/T, and then this is how we'll catch them later". I think it's shaky reasoning to keep a vote on someone, and coming up with two "so-so" reasons is overcompensating for the fact that there isn't really one "good" reason.

That's not what I was saying. I'm saying he's not telling us whether he's M/T or not. That's not fair if he's asking for that disclosure from others. His whole plan is based around unconditional trust and I don't see how he could hope to achieve that.

Huh? From his original "plea bargain" post:

That said, I'm a town/town player (going with the 9-3 speculation, there are at least 6 town/town players in the game).

Victor and I have been saying that for two pages and no one bothered to point that out until now?

And even with that, I still can't say I find this in any way, shape, or form worth spending time on. How is saying "I'm town, mafia forfeit please." worth the time spent typing it? And tbqh, if someone says they're town, that's even less reason to trust them.

There's also the issue of the WIFOM statement Rodion made, which he has not yet bothered to respond to and has instead decided to pursue crazymilkshake. My vote stands.

[crazymilkshake5]

Depending on his response he will have my vote.

[Rodion]

Victor and you have been saying shit for the last 2 pages, but I had no idea that was at least partly due to skimming until you just made it obvious. I'm not even sure Victor was saying (or, better, meaning to say) the same thing you claim you meant to say.

I'm not sure what you want me to say about any WIFOM statement I made. Care to elaborate? Or, even better, since CMS also wants to hear the answer, perhaps he could mention the WIFOM statement and ask the question himself? That would surely help him prove he knows what he's talking about instead of simply threatening to vote the biggest current bandwagon.

[Rodion]

Well first off It was your first post,

What is that supposed to mean? That it would have been less scummy if I had done some jokevoting instead first and only made the offer later?

And in that first post you very quickly claimed town/town while appealing to town/mafia (switch) players, If you claimed town/mafia (switch) then i would probabbly believe you, but you didnt, but i dont mean to say that nobody should take your offer.

Ok, you don't meant to say that nobody should take my offer. So, would you rather like someone to take my offer and confess?Why (or why not)?

I just strongly dislike the fact that you claimed town/town IN YOUR FIRST POST!
Fastposted

Oh, ok, so that seems to be the problem. Is mafia any more likely to win the game after I said I was town/town in my first post? Why (or why not)?

[Victor Sullivan]

Rodion, I really don't think the aggressively defensive stance your are holding is helping your cause. Sounds more like a frustrated scum to me! Just saying from my own experience (i.e. when TheGeneral got me, the Godfather, lynched on reasoning that I thought didn't hold any water).

-Sully

[Rodion]

Rodion, I really don't think the aggressively defensive stance your are holding is helping your cause. Sounds more like a frustrated scum to me! Just saying from my own experience (i.e. when TheGeneral got me, the Godfather, lynched on reasoning that I thought didn't hold any water).

-Sully

Check NBC D2 and MtG D1. I'm agressive when people are stupid and that should by no means be proof of "frustrated scum". But if instead of comparing Rodion with Rodion you think it's more accurate to compare Rodion with VS...

[Victor Sullivan]

Well, I don't particularly remember how Rodion was in games Rodion was in. At any rate, I don't understand why you continue to argue your point?

-Sully

[Rodion]

Well, I don't particularly remember how Rodion was in games Rodion was in.

Well, it just so happens Victor was in MtG as well (and he kinda co-modded NBC).

At any rate, I don't understand why you continue to argue your point?

-Sully

Not sure what you mean here, Victor. If by arguing my point you mean defending myself against people that are voting/FOSing me showing why what I did should not be perceived as scummy, the answer is obvious, isn't it? If you mean anything else, then please explain.

[jonty125]

I don't think I've played a game where Rodion was scum, so I can't help with the meta.

[crazymilkshake5]

First off I want to say that i have read all of it, and i am posting this just before i go to work, so i wont be able to get much in it.

Secondly, I could care less about you other games! that was those games, this is this game! who the f*ck cares about a previous game? not me. peoples play styles change and can change, so im ignoring all statements reffering to previous games.

That all i have, I currently have to run off to work, and will have more later.

[shieldgenerator7]

I don't think I've played a game where Rodion was scum, so I can't help with the meta.

Really? lshicastr! In almost all the games I've played him in he's been Mafia: Terminator, UNKNOWN, ... I forget the rest. Anyway Terminator is Rodion's original claim to fame because he got the real cop lynched after the cop outed him as scum! (and I got NK'd )

Since then Rodion has been a plotting powerhouse , taking down scum like a sniper on steroids. He's pretty much unstoppable. He's actually younger than me in mafia years, but way more overpowered (but he's still not as cool as me )

-SG7 ( )

[Rodion]

First off I want to say that i have read all of it, and i am posting this just before i go to work, so i wont be able to get much in it.

Sounds fair, let's see what you decided to prioritize this time.

Secondly, I could care less about you other games! that was those games, this is this game! who the f*ck cares about a previous game? not me. peoples play styles change and can change, so im ignoring all statements reffering to previous games.

That all i have, I currently have to run off to work, and will have more later.

So, you wanted me to answer the same question/comment PCM wanted, a question/comment I said I did not understand so I asked you, CMS, to (re)phrase it to me. I figure that is an important question/comment, since you said you would vote me DEPENDING ON MY ANSWER. Instead of (re)phrasing it and making the game move forward, you prioritize your short time to say you don't care about anything that is being discussed between VS and me.

That is the second time you claim not to have "enough time" but befuddle us all (or at least me) by using the few time you claim to have in a way that does not help with the game advancing at all. Why?

[crazymilkshake5]

So now your attacking my RL statement of having not enough time to post? that's low... I have this thing called a job. Something that you apparently don't have. Apparently you just sit on your lazy ass and eat bon bons all freaking day long...

Right, so that pissed me off.... back to your original question.

The problem of why your offer sounds scummy is because it offers to many escape paths to the mafia.

Lets pretend im mafia/mafia, I take your offer, I basically get an auto lynch. but oh wait! I took your deal saying that im mafia/town, get lynched and get basically an auto clear on the other side. Who knows, if you have a mason you could have set that s*** up. your mason takes the deal. Hes cleared.
My point being:
If someone is mafia/mafia, they basically get an auto clear.
If you have a mafia mason, he basically gets a free pass.
If you are town. then you have one hell of a mind.

[Rodion]

You totally missed the point. I did not complain that you did not have enough time. I complained that you used the few time you had to so something meaningless when you could have done something meaningful instead. And that was the 2nd time you had done that already.

Depending on his response he will have my vote.

I want to give a response. But can you give me the question?

I'm not sure what you want me to say about any WIFOM statement I made. Care to elaborate? Or, even better, since CMS also wants to hear the answer, perhaps he could mention the WIFOM statement and ask the question himself? That would surely help him prove he knows what he's talking about instead of simply threatening to vote the biggest current bandwagon.

See? I've been accusing you of attempting to join a bandwagon just because it is the closest to a lynch. I questioned your reasons and said you probably didn't have any (legit ones). Then you said you wanted me to answer something and I asked you to make the damn question. As I said, I can only assume the question to be important, since you said you'd vote depending on its response. Instead of doing that (explicitly explaining what you'd like me to respond), you decided to post saying "I don't care about what VS or you did in past games", but outright ignored the supposedly important subject. After I explained that in my last post, you decide to say you have a job and call me fat? And then you elaborate on something, but ONE MORE TIME CHOOSES NOT TO ADRESS THE THING I HAD EXPLICITLY ASKED YOU TO ADRESS. I'll end this post just like I ended my last.

Why?

[Rodion]

Wait, there's more!

Well first off It was your first post, And in that first post you very quickly claimed town/town while appealing to town/mafia (switch) players, If you claimed town/mafia (switch) then i would probabbly believe you, but you didnt, but i dont mean to say that nobody should take your offer. I just strongly dislike the fact that you claimed town/town [color=#FF0000]IN YOUR FIRST POST![/color]
Fastposted

Implies the offer itself is not scummy, what is scummy is saying "I'm town/town" in my first post.

Lets pretend im mafia/mafia, I take your offer, I basically get an auto lynch. but oh wait! I took your deal saying that im mafia/town, get lynched and get basically an auto clear on the other side. Who knows, if you have a mason you could have set that s*** up. your mason takes the deal. Hes cleared.
My point being:
If someone is mafia/mafia, they basically get an auto clear.
If you have a mafia mason, he basically gets a free pass.
If you are town. then you have one hell of a mind.

Argues that the offer is scummy (in almost direct contradiction to the former quote).
Implies I have the power of clearing people (being "almost cleared in my eyes" - the thing I actually promised - is pretty different from "being cleared in everyone's opinion"). You probably don't need a law background in order to know that if Rodion makes a deal with, say, Edocsil, everyone else is not bound by it and are not forced to consider Edocsil cleared. At all. That means that if a mafia/mafia player were to take the offer, we'd have:
a) found free scum in 1 game
b) have Rodion (with his 1 vote and possibly 1 night action) forced to consider 1 mafia as almost cleared in the other game, while everyone else was free to conclude whatever they wanted

Do you think a + b = negative sum for town/town players?

And I do have a hell of a mind (thank you!), which makes it especially frustrating to argue with people that can't think properly (and this is not specifically aimed at you).

[crazymilkshake5]

First off:

Depending on his response he will have my vote.

I want to give a response. But can you give me the question?

My responce taken from http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/response

re·sponse   [ri-spons]
noun
1.
an answer or reply, as in words or in some action.

A response doesn't require a question. the "lowest" thing it needs is a statement.

Second Thing:
I never called you fat. i just said that you sit around all day and eat chocolate.

Third Thing:

1.Others who?
2.And what do you think about their silence?
3.And why would you prioritize unvoting your jokevote on Side B over answering a more important question on Side A?

Just read up on every thing and I Shall FoS Rodion and possible vote until further notice.

Can you give a reason to go with your FOS, if that's not too much to ask?

I find your offer quite scummy and with your quick "i'm town" doesnt help the situation either,

Why is the offer scummy? Do you think one (or both) of the towns would get closer to a loss if someone were to take me on the confessing offer?

Others who?
1.crazymilkshake5-page 8
2.Rodion-page 8
3.shieldgenerator7- page 8
4.pancakemix-page 7
5.safariguy5-page 6
6.Some7hingCLEVER-page 6
7.new guy-page 5
8.drunkmonkey- page 7
9.edocsil- page 7
10.jonty125-page 8
11.Victor Sullivan-page 8
12.soundman-page 5

1.Thats when they last posted.
2.Probably forgot.
3.Didnt see it :O

Depending on his response he will have my vote.

Your next 2 posts is what i consider to be a response.

Now the big answers.

Well first off It was your first post,

What is that supposed to mean? That it would have been less scummy if I had done some jokevoting instead first and only made the offer later? 1

And in that first post you very quickly claimed town/town while appealing to town/mafia (switch) players, If you claimed town/mafia (switch) then i would probabbly believe you, but you didnt, but i dont mean to say that nobody should take your offer.

Ok, you don't meant to say that nobody should take my offer. So, would you rather like someone to take my offer and confess?Why (or why not)? 2

I just strongly dislike the fact that you claimed town/town IN YOUR FIRST POST!
Fastposted

Oh, ok, so that seems to be the problem. Is mafia any more likely to win the game after I said I was town/town in my first post? Why (or why not)? 3

1. hell no. wouldnt have helped at all. what i consider to be your "first post" is something that actually has to do with the producing the game.

2. No, its their option to take your offer. if someone wants to screw them selves, fine their choice. and whos to say there are even town/mafia players anyway?

3. no. but now they know who to kill tonight, on both sides in fact... and their might not be a doc on both sides.


ok, so i propose a question. why the hell did you claim first post?

[Rodion]

A response doesn't require a question. the "lowest" thing it needs is a statement.

I am very aware of that fact. That is why I wrote "question/comment" for as long as I could bother. The proof? In red.

So, you wanted me to answer the same question/comment PCM wanted, a question/comment I said I did not understand so I asked you, CMS, to (re)phrase it to me. I figure that is an important question/comment, since you said you would vote me DEPENDING ON MY ANSWER. Instead of (re)phrasing it and making the game move forward, you prioritize your short time to say you don't care about anything that is being discussed between VS and me.

That is the second time you claim not to have "enough time" but befuddle us all (or at least me) by using the few time you claim to have in a way that does not help with the game advancing at all. Why?

What remains to be seen is you pinpoint the question/comment/statement/whatever-you-want-to-call-it that you would like me to respond to and whose response may or may not have the consequence of you end up voting me. I've been asking for that for over 19 hours, you've posted several times in this period and I still remain to be informed of what I need to respond to. Oh, and we have a short deadline to boot.

Second Thing:
I never called you fat. i just said that you sit around all day and eat chocolate.

I prefer spicy hamburgers.

Third Thing:

1.Others who?
2.And what do you think about their silence?
3.And why would you prioritize unvoting your jokevote on Side B over answering a more important question on Side A?

1.Thats when they last posted.
2.Probably forgot.
3.Didnt see it :O

2 is unclear. Do you think they probably forgot the game? Or did you probably forget what you thought about their silence?
3 is further proof that you are stalling a game with a short deadline.

Depending on his response he will have my vote.

Your next 2 posts is what i consider to be a response.

No! You quickly hopped onto PCM's statement. The elusive "response" that you originally referred to is the response that PCM (and you) would like to hear but which I can't give until you actually pinpoint the statement I have to respond to.

Now the big answers.

Well first off It was your first post,

What is that supposed to mean? That it would have been less scummy if I had done some jokevoting instead first and only made the offer later? 1

And in that first post you very quickly claimed town/town while appealing to town/mafia (switch) players, If you claimed town/mafia (switch) then i would probabbly believe you, but you didnt, but i dont mean to say that nobody should take your offer.

Ok, you don't meant to say that nobody should take my offer. So, would you rather like someone to take my offer and confess?Why (or why not)? 2

I just strongly dislike the fact that you claimed town/town IN YOUR FIRST POST!
Fastposted

Oh, ok, so that seems to be the problem. Is mafia any more likely to win the game after I said I was town/town in my first post? Why (or why not)? 3

1. hell no. wouldnt have helped at all. what i consider to be your "first post" is something that actually has to do with the producing the game.

2. No, its their option to take your offer. if someone wants to screw them selves, fine their choice. and whos to say there are even town/mafia players anyway?

3. no. but now they know who to kill tonight, on both sides in fact... and their might not be a doc on both sides.

1. Not sure what you mean with producing the game, sorry.
2. Probability + /'s foresight that making 2 identical mafias would not work. The latter is WIFOM. The first is not.
3 . Oh, they do? On both sides in fact? Let's see. Assume Safari confesses to be Town A / Mafia B. Town B instantly profits with a correct lynch. Who should mafia A kill? Who should mafia B kill?

ok, so i propose a question. why the hell did you claim first post?

Already answered. It's in red.

Just read up on every thing and I Shall FoS Rodion and possible vote until further notice.

Can you give a reason to go with your FOS, if that's not too much to ask?

I find your offer quite scummy and with your quick "i'm town" doesnt help the situation either,

Why is the offer scummy? Do you think one (or both) of the towns would get closer to a loss if someone were to take me on the confessing offer?

I just said I was town/town to show I was not trying to make a deal that I myself would later accept (because THAT would be fishy).

There are currently questions I've asked that you failed to adress, but I think I'll be satisfied if you can answer all the ones contained in this post.

[crazymilkshake5]

Third Thing:

1.Others who?
2.And what do you think about their silence?
3.And why would you prioritize unvoting your jokevote on Side B over answering a more important question on Side A?

1.Thats when they last posted.
2.Probably forgot.
3.Didnt see it :O

2 is unclear. Do you think they probably forgot the game? Or did you probably forget what you thought about their silence? 1.1
3 is further proof that you are stalling a game with a short deadline.1.2



1. Not sure what you mean with producing the game, sorry. 2.1
2. Probability + /'s foresight that making 2 identical mafias would not work. The latter is WIFOM. The first is not. 2.2
3 . Oh, they do? On both sides in fact? Let's see. Assume Safari confesses to be Town A / Mafia B. Town B instantly profits with a correct lynch. Who should mafia A kill? Who should mafia B kill? 2.3

There are currently questions I've asked that you failed to adress, but I think I'll be satisfied if you can answer all the ones contained in this post.

Ok, this is what i have the questions gutted down to, if i am missing any, please do tell.
1.1: Forgot about the game
1.2: I didnt see the question on side A, saw the vote count on side B and then proceeded to unvote.

2.1: ie not joke voting, roaming, lurking ect.
2.2: not much to say.
2.3: Not what i ment to say. (the Both mafia sides know who to kill) but i will answer.

3 . Oh, they do? On both sides in fact? Let's see. Assume Safari confesses to be Town A / Mafia B. Town B instantly profits with a correct lynch. Who should mafia A kill? Who should mafia B kill?

Since Town B gets a free lynch, mafia B should kill the other side guy to get rid of him and basically get a free town lynch, lynch for kill.

I miss anything?

[Rodion]

2.3: Not what i ment to say. (the Both mafia sides know who to kill) but i will answer.

This is what you said.

3. no. but now they know who to kill tonight, on both sides in fact... and their might not be a doc on both sides.

Now it seems you didn't mean to say that both mafia sides knew who to kill when you said that "now they know who to kill tonight, on both sides in fact". What did you mean?

3 . Oh, they do? On both sides in fact? Let's see. Assume Safari confesses to be Town A / Mafia B. Town B instantly profits with a correct lynch. Who should mafia A kill? Who should mafia B kill?

Since Town B gets a free lynch, mafia B should kill the other side guy to get rid of him and basically get a free town lynch, lynch for kill.

You're saying if we lynch Safari B (who's mafia in this example), the remaining mafia B players will kill Safari in mafia A. If they are mafia in B, how are they allowed to kill him in A, thus basically getting the free town lynch you mentioned? I don't follow your logic.

The last question will be answered in my next post.

[Rodion]

I miss anything?

Let's see if you miss anything!

There's also the issue of the WIFOM statement Rodion made, which he has not yet bothered to respond to and has instead decided to pursue crazymilkshake. My vote stands.

Depending on his response he will have my vote.

I'm not sure what you want me to say about any WIFOM statement I made. Care to elaborate? Or, even better, since CMS also wants to hear the answer, perhaps he could mention the WIFOM statement and ask the question himself? That would surely help him prove he knows what he's talking about instead of simply threatening to vote the biggest current bandwagon.

So, you wanted me to answer the same question/comment PCM wanted, a question/comment I said I did not understand so I asked you, CMS, to (re)phrase it to me. I figure that is an important question/comment, since you said you would vote me DEPENDING ON MY ANSWER. Instead of (re)phrasing it and making the game move forward, you prioritize your short time to say you don't care about anything that is being discussed between VS and me.

That is the second time you claim not to have "enough time" but befuddle us all (or at least me) by using the few time you claim to have in a way that does not help with the game advancing at all. Why?

I want to give a response. But can you give me the question?

See? I've been accusing you of attempting to join a bandwagon just because it is the closest to a lynch. I questioned your reasons and said you probably didn't have any (legit ones). Then you said you wanted me to answer something and I asked you to make the damn question. As I said, I can only assume the question to be important, since you said you'd vote depending on its response. Instead of doing that (explicitly explaining what you'd like me to respond), you decided to post saying "I don't care about what VS or you did in past games", but outright ignored the supposedly important subject. After I explained that in my last post, you decide to say you have a job and call me fat? And then you elaborate on something, but ONE MORE TIME CHOOSES NOT TO ADRESS THE THING I HAD EXPLICITLY ASKED YOU TO ADRESS. I'll end this post just like I ended my last.

Why?

I am very aware of that fact. That is why I wrote "question/comment" for as long as I could bother. The proof? In red.

What remains to be seen is you pinpoint the question/comment/statement/whatever-you-want-to-call-it that you would like me to respond to and whose response may or may not have the consequence of you end up voting me. I've been asking for that for over 19 hours, you've posted several times in this period and I still remain to be informed of what I need to respond to. Oh, and we have a short deadline to boot.

To answer your last question, yes, I think you are missing something.

[shieldgenerator7]

#coolthethread

Wow, Rodion and CrazyMilkShake are really kicking it off. When it comes to 1v1 battles in mafia, it has been my experience that things can heat up pretty quick. So I want to take the time to say:

#coolthethread

Now I know both of you are respectable gentlemen and would not flame, but I just wanted to put this in here

Anyway, the deadline is in 5 days. I think at this point either Rodion or CMS is getting lynched (and don't you two argue over which one)
(although I have yet to look at the current VC)

If we're getting somewhere with this convo between Rodion and CMS, by all means keep it up. BUt don't let it devolve into a pissing match. (which sometimes happens between cocky n00bs and arrogant veterans)

I would have something deeper to say but I don't want to put words into Rodion's or CMS' mouths and I'll have to reread the last posts before I can make sense of it

-SG7 ( )

[Rodion]

Anyway, the deadline is in 5 days. I think at this point either Rodion or CMS is getting lynched (and don't you two argue over which one)

The game has a 7-8 day deadline, so having 5 days left means we didn't even enter the 2nd half of the day. The activity will certainly spike back on monday and any player can still end up being lynched (do not start feeling safe just yet, Shield! ).

[shieldgenerator7]

Anyway, the deadline is in 5 days. I think at this point either Rodion or CMS is getting lynched (and don't you two argue over which one)

The game has a 7-8 day deadline, so having 5 days left means we didn't even enter the 2nd half of the day. The activity will certainly spike back on monday and any player can still end up being lynched (do not start feeling safe just yet, Shield! ).

funny lol. I was talking about how you mentioned we were on a short deadline, do I have to quote everything I respond to?

[pancakemix]

That's perfectly cool as long as you move your vote away from me should you ever consider someone more scummy (and quite frankly I can't see how I'm being scummy for trying to get mafia to confess). I'll take (more) issue with it if you park your vote on me out of spite for the way I play. I know we have butted heads more than once regarding our playing styles. You heavily disliked my plan covering night actions in GP: Greek and you expressed a similar feeling when I replaced back into NBC with another plan (my plans were solid in both games by the way and town only lost GP: Greek because you guys decided my Hermes role was too weird to be believable and therefore threw my gameplan out of the window). And now this. Perhaps you are an old school guy with an old school modus operandi and you're bothered by the way I play (it's your prerogative). Just make sure that negativeness is not going to protect scummier people simply because you may have a grudge with me (this whole paragraph can be disregarded if you are not town/town).

And this is the kind of comment that will keep my vote where it is. It's an underhanded way of trying to get me to go along with your plan, and sets up a total WIFOM scenario. If you really want me to change my vote, you're not doing yourself any favors.

That one.

[crazymilkshake5]

2.3: Not what i ment to say. (the Both mafia sides know who to kill) but i will answer.

This is what you said.

3. no. but now they know who to kill tonight, on both sides in fact... and their might not be a doc on both sides.

Now it seems you didn't mean to say that both mafia sides knew who to kill when you said that "now they know who to kill tonight, on both sides in fact". What did you mean?

3 . Oh, they do? On both sides in fact? Let's see. Assume Safari confesses to be Town A / Mafia B. Town B instantly profits with a correct lynch. Who should mafia A kill? Who should mafia B kill?

Since Town B gets a free lynch, mafia B should kill the other side guy to get rid of him and basically get a free town lynch, lynch for kill.

You're saying if we lynch Safari B (who's mafia in this example), the remaining mafia B players will kill Safari in mafia A. If they are mafia in B, how are they allowed to kill him in A, thus basically getting the free town lynch you mentioned? I don't follow your logic.

The last question will be answered in my next post.

(used him to point up)

Simple slip of the toung.

Safari: A side: town. B side: Mafia

B side gets lynched, town is happy,
A side is left with his claim of town, leaving him to be fed to the A mafia. (ie getting killed)

As for the rest... its just a pissing match. I'm done.

Vote Rodion for being scummy.

fastposted