Matrix Mafia Endgame, Town and Survivors win!

[vodean]

I won't nameclaim w/o a BW, or in case of a future mass claim. I won't join in name speculation at all, but I will read your comments very thoroughly. I would suggest you toe the party line here jak.

@vodean: you accuse me of redirecting w/o reason. This is false for 2 reasons:
1) I redirected because I know jak to be town (jak pointed this out)
2) I provided reasons for my redirections in the post you quoted. Another player even agreed with the reasoning
Also, why did you role claim? I just want you to state your reasons so I know how your thought process works.

Vote pmc

Your unbacked vote against edoc has really odd timing. I would expect that earlier in the game or with less discussion on the table, not now. Also, your threatening tone about our names has already started to turn jak against me. Will provide specific quotes by request.

i claimed so that i cant be scrutinized and people dont waste their time on me.

I do agree with you that theres something off about pmc, but lets get a claim out of clever first.

fastposted x2

[pmchugh]

I won't nameclaim w/o a BW, or in case of a future mass claim. I won't join in name speculation at all, but I will read your comments very thoroughly. I would suggest you toe the party line here jak.

@vodean: you accuse me of redirecting w/o reason. This is false for 2 reasons:
1) I redirected because I know jak to be town (jak pointed this out)
2) I provided reasons for my redirections in the post you quoted. Another player even agreed with the reasoning
Also, why did you role claim? I just want you to state your reasons so I know how your thought process works.

Vote pmc

Your unbacked vote against edoc has really odd timing. I would expect that earlier in the game or with less discussion on the table, not now. Also, your threatening tone about our names has already started to turn jak against me. Will provide specific quotes by request.

Well tbh I struggled to keep up in this game, replaced late and had exams and stuff, that's what I am blaming my edoc vote on.

I'm going to ignore your claim for now against my better judgement, for today at least.

[pmchugh]

right now im thinking clever and hippo are scumbuddies, leehar is scummy, and doom and jak are scumbuddies. i dont believe hippo's claim. i definitely dont believe that jak and doom are masons... they would have been NKed... lets put a little pressure on some of them. you may be wondering why i gave an unprompted claim, and that is because now i am free to point fingers wherever, and you know that im not scum. If you dont believe me, lynch me, but then PLEASE lynch some of the above.

BTW, I am mouse, and i do nothing special at night (being that im VT)...

WTH? Why the claim?

[thechuck51]

BTW, I am mouse, and i do nothing special at night (being that im VT)...

So far this is the first case of somebody that can enter the matrix being VT.

[edocsil]

BTW, I am mouse, and i do nothing special at night (being that im VT)...

So far this is the first case of somebody that can enter the matrix being VT.

Yes, and I'll bet he is also the first liar, although the points are unconnected in my case.

I am currently leaning towards two groups of mafia, not connected, but with one kill and one other power... one group in the matrix (Clever, hippo, and maybe IB?) and one outside the matrix (doom and jak)... but for now, ill provide one more piece of evidence against clever and change my vote.

Pointless conjecture, it is of no use to the town. Making lists of who the entire fucking scum is just is wrong. I don't care how many connected players you think you see, you are wrong. The odds are just too great, and any half assed mafia player already knows this.

always backing up hippo. why? surely, when hippo is only in moderate danger, he does not need someone else pushing for his defense, unless they have vested interest.
unvote vote clever

So what? Better to take a stand. I happen to to agree that the hippo case was groundless. Scum don't cover each other like that unless they are so embarrassingly green that they have never read a finished game before.

from this, yes, it would seem i was right... two mafia factions, and the woman in the car is probably the oracle.

If you had actually read the game/watched to movies/played a balanced game before, you would know it's a SK and Scum, not 2 Scum. Also, why the f*ck would the oracle be in a car? Flavor just doesn't fit with either statement. Bad flavor analysis is bad.

Im not sure what this other man is, and why the first one didnt get hit by the train...

Duh, white suit is Seraph (perhaps twins, but the argument is moot here) Train refers to the Trainman and a busdrive, again, duh. Flavor just doesn't fit. Further bad flavor analysis is still bad.

Not noticing the Morpheus death, a random "Don't shoot me I'm VT!" Followed by criticisms as to why the scum hadn't killed the other VT's, pointless (incorrect) flavor analysis, bad skimming, and a fishy claim to boot. I'm going with scum.

Unvote Vote Vodean.

[safariguy5]

Vote Count

clever(5)- neb, leehar, jak, dj, vodean
sg7(1)- betiko
hippo(1)- jonty
betiko(1)- everywhere
pmc(1)- doom
vodean(1)- edoc

With 20 alive, it takes 11 to lynch.

[MoB Deadly]

BTW, I am mouse, and i do nothing special at night (being that im VT)...

So far this is the first case of somebody that can enter the matrix being VT.

I think we need to test this claim and get this whole Matrix/Zion meta strategy out of our systems. Plus, I disagree with quite a few things vodean said.

I kinda feel really bad though, she just read 74 pages and I am voting her? vote vodean

[Nebuchadnezer]

BTW, I am mouse, and i do nothing special at night (being that im VT)...

So far this is the first case of somebody that can enter the matrix being VT.

I think we need to test this claim and get this whole Matrix/Zion meta strategy out of our systems. Plus, I disagree with quite a few things vodean said.

I kinda feel really bad though, she just read 74 pages and I am voting her? vote vodean

So she reads through 70+ pages, and gives her insights and opinions all wrapped in a couple pages, and you guys go and vote her because she's off on some of her assumptions/observations? IT WAS 70+ PAGES!!! I can barely get through some posts that are longer than 3 paragraphs, yet she powered through 70 pages of mostly useless drivel and blind wandering by town. So she claimed Mouse without be provoked...BFD. I give her props for speaking what she thought and giving her unadulterated opinion. That's a lot more than I can say for the rest of us sheep who are STILL lost as to who Smith or Mafia are.

But you're probably right...she probably read through 70+ pages as mafia and thought, "hey, I should take a stab at a fake claim, just so I can truly have wasted my time on being a sub."

Come on...

[LSU Tiger Josh]

I need replacing. Work has had me going out of town and I'm lost. Sorry.

[vodean]

Not noticing the Morpheus death, a random "Don't shoot me I'm VT!" Followed by criticisms as to why the scum hadn't killed the other VT's, pointless (incorrect) flavor analysis, bad skimming, and a fishy claim to boot. I'm going with scum.

Unvote Vote Vodean.

the reason for all of this is posting as i read... it took a while to get through 70 pages... my newer posts were more accurate. the reason why it looks suspect is that NO ONE SUSPECTS!!

vote me if you want. lynch me! but afterwards, PLEASE, listen to what i said.

[vodean]

right now im thinking clever and hippo are scumbuddies, leehar is scummy, and doom and jak are scumbuddies. i dont believe hippo's claim. i definitely dont believe that jak and doom are masons... they would have been NKed... lets put a little pressure on some of them. you may be wondering why i gave an unprompted claim, and that is because now i am free to point fingers wherever, and you know that im not scum. If you dont believe me, lynch me, but then PLEASE lynch some of the above.

BTW, I am mouse, and i do nothing special at night (being that im VT)...

WTH? Why the claim?

then i can be less questioned... or more because apparently looking through 70 pages of forum... if i really have an interesting role, why would dazza have been replaced without reason? no "im busy" or "irl is insane". just a boring VT role. If you dont believe me, then lynch me. just listen to what i said when im dead. the mafia are DOMINANT in this game... they have killed 4 without anything, and are pressuring me...

MoB, i already have and FOS on you, but i think clever is more important right now, since there is a BW on him right now.

[thehippo8]

right now im thinking clever and hippo are scumbuddies, leehar is scummy, and doom and jak are scumbuddies. i dont believe hippo's claim. i definitely dont believe that jak and doom are masons... they would have been NKed... lets put a little pressure on some of them. you may be wondering why i gave an unprompted claim, and that is because now i am free to point fingers wherever, and you know that im not scum. If you dont believe me, lynch me, but then PLEASE lynch some of the above.

BTW, I am mouse, and i do nothing special at night (being that im VT)...

WTH? Why the claim?

then i can be less questioned... or more because apparently looking through 70 pages of forum... if i really have an interesting role, why would dazza have been replaced without reason? no "im busy" or "irl is insane". just a boring VT role. If you dont believe me, then lynch me. just listen to what i said when im dead. the mafia are DOMINANT in this game... they have killed 4 without anything, and are pressuring me...

MoB, i already have and FOS on you, but i think clever is more important right now, since there is a BW on him right now.

Well, no-one ever listens to me so I don't see why you'll be an exception. But I'll follow you and see what clever does. I won't forget about jonty though.

unvote vote clever

[MoB Deadly]

MoB, i already have and FOS on you, but i think clever is more important right now, since there is a BW on him right now.

You put a .5 fos on me

I agree with dazza here, Neb just seems to be playing "off" . He reacts to the joke pressure on him by voting himself... Says we should go after the 9 people that didnt cast a vote (even though his vote is on himself, I classify that as not really voting either. I like my vote on him until a stronger case presents itself.

Why go against the role call? It promotes activity from anyone by asking real questions to people. Rather than people popping in for 1 line votes

unvote vote neb

.5 FOS MoB for BW with reason


total FOS tallies are as follows (some errors):
MoB - .5

That .5 fos is because I bandwagoned against neb, who CLEARLY and admittedly if not mistaken, was not playing his normal playstyle. I've played 2-4 games with neb before and he has a very distinct playstyle, and he did not stick do it on day 1. He said it was because he was trying to bait mafia.

So my reasons for the bandwagon were exactly right, I have no regrets voting for neb when I did.



Oops..... okay... I take back my vote on you though vodean. I disagreed with one of your posts and I thought you were trying to make something out of nothing... In fact, I was the one who was wrong. I am still going to FOS you for claiming with zero pressure, and claiming a VT which does not fit the pattern with the rest of the game.

unvote

I am still not sold on Clever though. If this were Day 1 I would definitely say his actions would warrant a lynch. However it's day 3 and we haven't caught any scum, or do not know if we even made one claim. I get the feeling we were baited into voting clever for the easy lynch of the day. I would be more supportive of going in a completely new direction. It's just gut feeling though, which I know is not worth a whole lot in this type of game.

[edocsil]

Not noticing the Morpheus death, a random "Don't shoot me I'm VT!" Followed by criticisms as to why the scum hadn't killed the other VT's, pointless (incorrect) flavor analysis, bad skimming, and a fishy claim to boot. I'm going with scum.

Unvote Vote Vodean.

the reason for all of this is posting as i read... it took a while to get through 70 pages... my newer posts were more accurate. the reason why it looks suspect is that NO ONE SUSPECTS!!

vote me if you want. lynch me! but afterwards, PLEASE, listen to what i said.

No, what you claim is just ridiculous. You cannot possibly know who every single scum is D3.

[Some7hingCLEVER]

if im mafia why would i defend town? seriously if im mafia why would i not just sit back and let a townie die. im not saying he is for sure town but its what i believe. therefore me being town. i didnt want him to die. what exatly is wrong with that?

[betiko]

I need replacing. Work has had me going out of town and I'm lost. Sorry.

wow, thanks for your contribution during this half day and your 2 posts.

[Some7hingCLEVER]

I need replacing. Work has had me going out of town and I'm lost. Sorry.

wow, thanks for your contribution during this half day and your 2 posts.

well he isnt the only one who is absent

[ghostly447]

if im mafia why would i defend town? seriously if im mafia why would i not just sit back and let a townie die. im not saying he is for sure town but its what i believe. therefore me being town. i didnt want him to die. what exatly is wrong with that?

I am read up completely. I will begin assessing this case though. Good WIFOM defense here, you have the why would I cover a townie (when clearly you would want to associate yourself with a known town). Then there is the why would I let him die (when clearly that would defeat the purpose of connecting yourself to a townie). Then you have the "I think he is town, so I will defend him" defense that you actually use in most games. Meta gaming there. Then the "I am town and dont want him to die" defense that is just trying to say im town and get away with it.

This will easily be chalked down as BWing as soon as I returned, but Vote Clever. Better not to go this far with a BW and not get anything out of it.

That puts you at 6 votes, and with 20 people that means you are at L-5 if my count is correct.

I am going to try to go back when I get time and get more out of this case other than you have a WIFOM defense. I dont believe the case was very well deserving of this BW, but if it gets activity stirring and causes slips for a better case, then its still not a lost cause.

Fastposted. Betiko, some of us dont have time to read 5 new pages for 1 game every day. We are busy. Just because he needs a replacement, doesnt mean he should get crap for it.

[betiko]

if im mafia why would i defend town? seriously if im mafia why would i not just sit back and let a townie die. im not saying he is for sure town but its what i believe. therefore me being town. i didnt want him to die. what exatly is wrong with that?

because if you are mafia, you are going to tr to look town. that's a moot point.

regarding vodean, well, she sure had to look through a lot of pages, posted a lot of things without having yet the knowledge of the future pages. I disagree with most of the things she said but don't think it's worth a vote! applause for all her inputs though and being so active.

I'm still on SG7, that is still not around. he shows up once in a while to jokevote and tries too hard sometimes to look concerned about the town.

by the way, how can ghostly still not be replaced while other people have been replaced far after him? is that a mod tell?
ghostly has a well suited name.

by the way, i moved and i'm waiting for my modem to arrive, so can only post from work and will be less active in the next couple of weeks.

[ghostly447]

Well I am glad you can personally insult people in your post that is exactly what I said about Clever, and the points made against people stating the obvious. Let me recap below in red!

if im mafia why would i defend town? seriously if im mafia why would i not just sit back and let a townie die. im not saying he is for sure town but its what i believe. therefore me being town. i didnt want him to die. what exatly is wrong with that?

because if you are mafia, you are going to tr to look town. that's a moot point.

Yes, I said this already.

regarding vodean, well, she sure had to look through a lot of pages, posted a lot of things without having yet the knowledge of the future pages. I disagree with most of the things she said but don't think it's worth a vote! applause for all her inputs though and being so active.

Very active, yes, making triple or quadruple posts. Congrats to her, I saw all those too reading up on the 10 pages I missed while I was gone.

I'm still on SG7, that is still not around. he shows up once in a while to jokevote and tries too hard sometimes to look concerned about the town.

Yes, I am so concerned since he announced that he was going to be busy with exams. Sure, it was awhile ago, but I know that he was busy with my game, and several others. Just like myself, he has been busy.

by the way, how can ghostly still not be replaced while other people have been replaced far after him? is that a mod tell?
ghostly has a well suited name.

How can I not be replaced? I dont know, because I make check ins and such saying "My weekends are now going to be busy". Its called keeping people up to date on where you are going to be so that people who visit the vacation forum, etc can see that I am busy.

by the way, i moved and i'm waiting for my modem to arrive, so can only post from work and will be less active in the next couple of weeks.

Similar to your post!

So now that we have gotten all the old news and fluff out of the way, lets get real. You obviously dont read in depth or you would notice that almost all my posts are about a couple things: My reasons for activity, or my small amount of input that is always looked over such as:

Hey all, I am just now getting back from 46 hours inactivity (most will know from my explanation in the vacation thread, etc).

Personal note, I have to read from page 53 and will try to by the end of the night.

Prod received, you can hopefully expect for me to join back in the action more like tomorrow morning or evening hopefully.

Ghost

OR

Guys I am read up just about. I have never seen the matrix though so I do have one question. Are the twins both good, both bad, or does one go against the other? I am just getting some background info.

You repeat things that have already been said, or you try to cast suspicion on inactives who have reasons for inactivity such as work, school, and busy weekends with friends.


FOS Betiko

[jonty125]

WTH? Why the claim?

then i can be less questioned... or more because apparently looking through 70 pages of forum... if i really have an interesting role, why would dazza have been replaced without reason?.

I don't understand why you claimed. Is it because you were a) afraid of questioning b) fed up c) felt it was assumed 'cos dazza quit.

[everywhere116]

WTH? Why the claim?

then i can be less questioned... or more because apparently looking through 70 pages of forum... if i really have an interesting role, why would dazza have been replaced without reason?.

I don't understand why you claimed. Is it because you were a) afraid of questioning b) fed up c) felt it was assumed 'cos dazza quit.

Dazza quit my game, too. I would assume something happened in his life to force him to drop his games.

Unvote vote clever

[safariguy5]

Vote Count

clever(5)- neb, leehar, jak, dj, vodean, hippo, ghostly, everywhere
sg7(1)- betiko
hippo(1)- jonty
betiko(1)- everywhere
pmc(1)- doom
vodean(1)- edoc

With 20 alive, it takes 11 to lynch.

Will look for a replacement for LSU

[soundman]

I am back! And caught up reading. Also did a re-read of Day 3. First off, where is IB? Can we please get a prod, Saf? Thanks.

Now I specifically looked at the case against Clever since that seems to be the main one at the moment. It started with Jonty FOSing Clever for being a sheep on Day 2. Doom immediately follows this up with a vote along with Neb, Leehar, and Jak. DJ then adds his vote but adds another reason behind it. He says that Clever has come up each day so something more must be going on with him. Vodean then adds her vote for Clever defending Hippo and Hippo defending Clever. I'd like to add here that it does look to me like they were helping each other out. Then Hippo says "No one listens to me but I'll follow you (Vodean) and see what Clever does. But I won't forget about Jonty" and votes for Clever. This to me is Hippo trying to distance himself from Clever (Obviously) and get on Vodean's good side. It doesn't really sit right with me. Then Ghostly votes Clever for posting a WIFOM defense. And finally Everywhere talks about Dazza quitting and then votes Clever without giving a reason. Also Doom unvoted on the last page and went after PMC.

So the case against Clever is as follows. He's been a sheep all game, he keeps coming up each day, he and Hippo have been acting like buddies, and he posted a WIFOM defense. I don't think this is a very strong case but it is the best so far and I can't find a better one. At this point it's time to finish it off and get a claim. Vote Clever.

[pmchugh]

I don't think vodean is scummy, i just have no idea why she claimed. Seemed rather silly to me with no pressure.

So the case against Clever is as follows. He's been a sheep all game, he keeps coming up each day, he and Hippo have been acting like buddies, and he posted a WIFOM defense. I don't think this is a very strong case but it is the best so far and I can't find a better one. At this point it's time to finish it off and get a claim. Vote Clever.

I actually think this is just normal play for clever.