Rolegift Mafia, All Present

[ga7]

You know, I think Kwan might be right that some gifts will be negative. It wouldn't make much sense for mafia to have great powers for example since they could just send them to each other.
(there, I hope I instilled doubt in the scums who will now avoid sending gifts to themselves )

Actually I was hoping mafia would not realize their gifts might be negative, and I think they must be.
I intentionally didn't say it out loud

What would you rather have, Mafia thinking there's no negative gifts and if it's true just feeding themselves powers or them thinking they can be negative and being cautious?

I doubt there's an easy way to deal with this setup. We might need to consider the option to just play it normally, mention a successful action if it's relevant, etc...

Summary: Claiming who we gave our gifts to will be an advantage for scum but just claiming what role you were gifted helps everyone.

You forget one part: it well also help mafia a lot if they target townies and learn of their actual powers this way.
Aage's suggestion is the worst since it assumes a lot and would make it easier for mafia to confuse town.

Mr S' take makes sense but I'm still not convinced revealing actions will help figuring out the whole game. Mafia could lie to confuse the town and could likely not be detected unless everyone communicates on who they gave their gift to, which in its own has flaws. Then there's the side that mafia doesn't have a particular reason to lie since it'll be the same situation for everyone. I wonder something though...

/, what happens when a person receives several gifts? Can he use all the actions/does he have to pick/does he randomly get attributed one?

[karelpietertje]

He can use them all I think.

[aage]

You know, I think Kwan might be right that some gifts will be negative. It wouldn't make much sense for mafia to have great powers for example since they could just send them to each other.
(there, I hope I instilled doubt in the scums who will now avoid sending gifts to themselves )

Actually I was hoping mafia would not realize their gifts might be negative, and I think they must be.
I intentionally didn't say it out loud

What would you rather have, Mafia thinking there's no negative gifts and if it's true just feeding themselves powers or them thinking they can be negative and being cautious?

I doubt there's an easy way to deal with this setup. We might need to consider the option to just play it normally, mention a successful action if it's relevant, etc...

Summary: Claiming who we gave our gifts to will be an advantage for scum but just claiming what role you were gifted helps everyone.

You forget one part: it well also help mafia a lot if they target townies and learn of their actual powers this way.
Aage's suggestion is the worst since it assumes a lot and would make it easier for mafia to confuse town.

In that case I'll amend the suggestion a bit.

Night 1 we give our action to the person above us on the list. Night 2 we give it to the person under us on the list.

[ga7]

But that plan could be useless if the mafia doesn't follow it for instance, how would we figure out if it's being well followed or not? And more importantly what about the towns that could be below a scum and with doc or cop power? Scum would know to kill that person right away then, I don't get it... It might make sense if you want to set up a kinda mass gift claim day 2 but it wouldn't help the slightest to hunt scum either.

[Fircoal]

But that plan could be useless if the mafia doesn't follow it for instance, how would we figure out if it's being well followed or not?

lol No-Role Mafia. I think I targeted first Kwan when he wasn't who I was supposed to, and then myself. x3

[spiesr]

Also, Spiesr, I think some roles are more often found in mafia than others, so while this shouldn't help us decide on lynches alone, I do feel like this might be a good indication of whether a claim is truthful or not.

But as far as I can tell, in this game there would be no reason for someone to lie about their claim.

But that plan could be useless if the mafia doesn't follow it for instance, how would we figure out if it's being well followed or not?

Aage's plan would involve everyone sending the role to a specific person in relation to them, so if someone didn't follow it it would be fairly obvious who that person is. If you follow the assumption that only mafia would not follow the plan, then you just lynch the person who was supposed to gift whomever did receive a gift. In theory the mafia could screw with the plan by say Scum A sends his gift to the person Scum B was supposed to send it to. But, the best move the mafia could make if the plan actually happened would be to just go along with the plan. The plan would not detect them, so they would have no need to mess with it and risk attracting attention.

And more importantly what about the towns that could be below a scum and with doc or cop power? Scum would know to kill that person right away then.

Heck, scum would not even need to be the one who received such a role in this plan. Everyone would know everyone's power.

[Commander9]

Also, Spiesr, I think some roles are more often found in mafia than others, so while this shouldn't help us decide on lynches alone, I do feel like this might be a good indication of whether a claim is truthful or not.

But as far as I can tell, in this game there would be no reason for someone to lie about their claim.

But that plan could be useless if the mafia doesn't follow it for instance, how would we figure out if it's being well followed or not?

Aage's plan would involve everyone sending the role to a specific person in relation to them, so if someone didn't follow it it would be fairly obvious who that person is. If you follow the assumption that only mafia would not follow the plan, then you just lynch the person who was supposed to gift whomever did receive a gift. In theory the mafia could screw with the plan by say Scum A sends his gift to the person Scum B was supposed to send it to. But, the best move the mafia could make if the plan actually happened would be to just go along with the plan. The plan would not detect them, so they would have no need to mess with it and risk attracting attention.

And more importantly what about the towns that could be below a scum and with doc or cop power? Scum would know to kill that person right away then.

Heck, scum would not even need to be the one who received such a role in this plan. Everyone would know everyone's power.

Good post, but to answer your answer, I think that it could make sense to lie about your role, because as I've said before, if your role gift is a serial killer (there are other roles) or something like that, you wouldn't want to say that - instead, you'd claim something else. If say, a person in mafia has that, he can easily get that "role" confirmed through his buddies...

[aage]

Scum would know to kill that person right away then, I don't get it...

I already adressed that issue, you skimmer

[Skoffin]

I agree with what Mr Squirrel has said. However my issue with the aage plan is not what has already been suggested, but about assuming it works exactly the way the best scenario presents it. Assuming that, to me it goes a bit against the spirit of the game. Going through a list to pick mafia instead of picking who you most suspect seems a dull way to play the game, especially starting such a scheme from day one. If the plan works perfectly then it means it's pointless for the mafia to even try, and makes it pointless for me to play.

Anyway, the OP states that we give gifts each day... has anyone tried to give a gift yet? I've interpreted the post to mean that we need to give gifts in the day phase for the person to receive them in the night phase, so be sure you get them sent in.

[/]

/, what happens when a person receives several gifts? Can he use all the actions/does he have to pick/does he randomly get attributed one?

actions stack, you may use all that are sent to you.

[safariguy5]

I agree with what Mr Squirrel has said. However my issue with the aage plan is not what has already been suggested, but about assuming it works exactly the way the best scenario presents it. Assuming that, to me it goes a bit against the spirit of the game. Going through a list to pick mafia instead of picking who you most suspect seems a dull way to play the game, especially starting such a scheme from day one. If the plan works perfectly then it means it's pointless for the mafia to even try, and makes it pointless for me to play.

Anyway, the OP states that we give gifts each day... has anyone tried to give a gift yet? I've interpreted the post to mean that we need to give gifts in the day phase for the person to receive them in the night phase, so be sure you get them sent in.

Yes, I sent my gift in already.

[Mr. Squirrel]

I agree with what Mr Squirrel has said. However my issue with the aage plan is not what has already been suggested, but about assuming it works exactly the way the best scenario presents it. Assuming that, to me it goes a bit against the spirit of the game. Going through a list to pick mafia instead of picking who you most suspect seems a dull way to play the game, especially starting such a scheme from day one. If the plan works perfectly then it means it's pointless for the mafia to even try, and makes it pointless for me to play.

Anyway, the OP states that we give gifts each day... has anyone tried to give a gift yet? I've interpreted the post to mean that we need to give gifts in the day phase for the person to receive them in the night phase, so be sure you get them sent in.

Yes, I sent my gift in already.

ditto

[aage]

Good call. I will in a sec.

[Haggis_McMutton]

@ aage's plan. It all hinges on the assumption that the percentage of negative roles within mafia will be a lot larger than the percentage of negative roles within town. I'm not sure if that's a valid assumption.
I agree that mafia may not have great presents(as to not be overpowered), but since town is obviously larger there may well be a few townies with non-stellar gifts as well.

Second. I really don't understand why there's almost a consensus on claiming what gifts we got on D2.
Don't really see how it helps us. What do i care if my gift is doc, cop, roleblock or whatever, I'll still give it to the person I consider towniest.
The only thing it accomplishes is giving mafia more info about what roles are out there ...

[ga7]

Yep, the interesting part would be more about the possible role changes that gifts could make according to first post. Stupid example but if a gift makes one a survivor obviously it'd need to be communicated. If by your action (and not just the gift) you find out something important it'd need to be advertized too, and even then there's the risk that it was a gift by mafia. But I'm pretty sure if we have all gifts out the open not only will it be harder to notice which gift patterns are odd, but it will cause the mafia to know exactly what powers they have, as opposed to town who will just individually know what they give. That could be an edge for scum.

If the plan works perfectly then it means it's pointless for the mafia to even try, and makes it pointless for me to play.

Now it could be poor wording and is said in the spirit of challenge but... It feels weird for Skoff to not have noticed this could be misinterpreted, so it makes me think she was really starting to worry about these "plans". Or is very empathic towards mafia's chances. Either way Vote Skoffypop

[naxus]

No matter what plan we go with, we still have to be aware that there might not be any negative gifts at all. It could just be a basic set up with GF and then Cop, doc with everyone else being vanilla. We just dont know.

Claiming actions/gifts day 2 still seems strange to me just because the chances of huge lies slipping by

[safariguy5]

In terms of negative gifts, the only common one I can think of would be miller. PGO might be bad, but that's about it. I don't really see any really bad stuff besides that.

[naxus]

lighting rod possibly or paranoid/insane variants

Or...maybe there literally anti gifts, in that if you recieve one then you lose an action or gain a PR

[Fircoal]

This is what I hear: BLAH BLAH BLAH GIFT GIFT GIFT

This is what I should hear: BLAH BLAH BLAH MANDY IS SCUM

I don't think speculating on gifts is going to get us anywhere. Yes there may be negative gifts, what importance is it to know what they are? WE'll see tomarrow.

[spiesr]

This is what I hear: BLAH BLAH BLAH GIFT GIFT GIFT
This is what I should hear: BLAH BLAH BLAH MANDY IS SCUM

But with Mandy not in this game, then should you logically be the next one on that list?

[Fircoal]

This is what I hear: BLAH BLAH BLAH GIFT GIFT GIFT
This is what I should hear: BLAH BLAH BLAH MANDY IS SCUM

But with Mandy not in this game, then should you logically be the next one on that list?

Maybe, but the point was that we should be focusing on finding scum rather than discussing roles with no prior basis.

[The Weird One]

This is what I hear: BLAH BLAH BLAH GIFT GIFT GIFT
This is what I should hear: BLAH BLAH BLAH MANDY IS SCUM

But with Mandy not in this game, then should you logically be the next one on that list?

Maybe, but the point was that we should be focusing on finding scum rather than discussing roles with no prior basis.

I agree with chu...Sorry for not posting the past few days...This past weekend was quite hectic and I didn't get a chance to.

[safariguy5]

Hmm, Campin has been awfully quiet.

unvote vote Campin_Killer at least until he rejoins the discussion.

[kwanton]

Yeah sorry bout my absence the past couple days. Been celebrating my Jets making it

Anyway, I haven't seen anything really scummy so far that would warrant a lynch in and of itself. Guess that's to be expected day 1 though. I do agree with fir for the most part though, we should be focused on finding scum but keep speculating on mechanics and roles as a secondary.

I already sent in my gift too. Sent it in a while ago but maybe the mod will let us change?

[Campin_Killer]

Hmm, Campin has been awfully quiet.

unvote vote Campin_Killer at least until he rejoins the discussion.

You might of missed my announcement that I was going to be on very little due to hockey