TheGeneral's Pro Mafia [Town Wins!] Night actions released

[spiesr]

(damn ... more edits): I forgot to consider that there is either a lawyer or a hooker in this game. If MoB is mafia and lawyer/hooker uses power on MoB, then we won't get anything out of the result (other than knowing the set-up IF result comes back "failed to investigate").

As it stands, assuming the information Zimmah provided is correct, we already know the setup is Setup 3: 4 villagers, 1 doc, 1 cop, 1 bomb, 1 actress, 1 lawyer, 1 stalker.

Considering that this game is now tilted in favor of us, I can't figure out why General gave the townies another weapon/skill/ability/whatever. Seems like he's kind of on our side. I'm not complaining, I just can't figure that one out.

I think Edoc'sil is on the right track about the usefulness of this ability. Since it is tied to giving the scum a free day kill, it is not really to the town's benefit unless that ability somehow guarantees getting a scum.

[agentcom]

(damn ... more edits): I forgot to consider that there is either a lawyer or a hooker in this game. If MoB is mafia and lawyer/hooker uses power on MoB, then we won't get anything out of the result (other than knowing the set-up IF result comes back "failed to investigate").

As it stands, assuming the information Zimmah provided is correct, we already know the setup is Setup 3: 4 villagers, 1 doc, 1 cop, 1 bomb, 1 actress, 1 lawyer, 1 stalker.

Considering that this game is now tilted in favor of us, I can't figure out why General gave the townies another weapon/skill/ability/whatever. Seems like he's kind of on our side. I'm not complaining, I just can't figure that one out.

I think Edoc'sil is on the right track about the usefulness of this ability. Since it is tied to giving the scum a free day kill, it is not really to the town's benefit unless that ability somehow guarantees getting a scum.

1. You are right. But my point remains that an innocent result cannot clear him.

2. Maybe it's only a small advantage, but nonetheless it is an advantage. If town doesn't use their new ability, then nothing gained nothing lost. If town can use this to kill scum then it's an advantage. Plus town has figured out a way to pretty much use PM only to their advantage. So, even though this game may be a 50/50 game, town has three advantages over the hypothetical game (killing mafia in N1, new skill, daytime messaging). Basically, town should win this. That's all I'm saying. But this conversation doesn't really help the game along. Just one of the thoughts I had while reading through the thread.

[zimmah]

interesting posts but my head s too tired to think of anything intelligent at all though.

i like the theory about mob, but not sure if i believe it. at least you put some effort into it. but that could also mean that you're the bad guy. should check that back later when i can think more clearly.

[MoB Deadly]

I see your points as people said about a mafia player likely sending PMs. I would say that is a fair point to make, except look at how my decision was made on who to PM. And look at exactly how much thought I put into this.

Just to make things as crystal clear as possible see the Screenshot below.


12:01 - Not in screenshot - I post that I did not receive my role and that I was going to PM general about it.

Click image to enlarge.

12:02 - I apologize for being "drunked"
12:04 - makes a jokevote on me because I was drunk.
12:05 - I laugh at him for acknowledging my drunkenness and realize I wanted to play with the PM system.
12:07 - THIS IS IMPORTANT. Now 2 minutes later, I PMED General the intentional leak, I came BACK to the thread, and then posted the possible setups that have a bomb in them.

So what does this mean? It means it took about 1 minute of thought/time to intentionally leak that PM. That means I didn't do anything else, but just playing around in good fun. I even declared BEFORE THE GAME, that I wanted to go PM crazy just for the sake of PMing.

______________________________________________

Now into some WIFOM arguments.
I didn't receive my role until AFTER the two deaths. Therefore, I didn't have any stalker info to relay to my scum buddies.
If I was scum, would I REALLY risk PMing them, knowing they could leak?
I can't even think of anything I would want to say to scum buddies privately at this point of the game.

Wouldn't I try to paint them scum publicly at first and if we are at a crucial vote, THEN maybe PM them telling them this is the better bandwagon to vote for?

[MoB Deadly]

For Reference:

Put me in as a replacement for now, I am in way too many mafias at the moment

--------

Do you know that this obviously requires you to be a very active mod?

Is there any sort of limits on PMING? What if someone PMs just a couple words at a time to avoid any info being leaked, but sends like 20 PMs?

This is one strategy. However it almost guarantees a few words will leak. What will town say when they see this?

Ill take my 5% chance I think haha. They wont care because I declared I am going to do it regardless of my role

I was very wrong, apparently pming while drunk is even considered scummy.

[agentcom]

For Reference:

Put me in as a replacement for now, I am in way too many mafias at the moment

--------

Do you know that this obviously requires you to be a very active mod?

Is there any sort of limits on PMING? What if someone PMs just a couple words at a time to avoid any info being leaked, but sends like 20 PMs?

This is one strategy. However it almost guarantees a few words will leak. What will town say when they see this?

Ill take my 5% chance I think haha. They wont care because I declared I am going to do it regardless of my role

I was very wrong, apparently pming while drunk is even considered scummy.

Fair points. Now that you mention it, I do recall you saying something about that when initially defending yourself. I don't know what to make about all the time stamp stuff. How can we tell what time you PM'd TheGeneral? How do we know that you only worked on it between those particular posts? I think the "I said I was going to do it" argument is much stronger than the "look at the timestamp" argument. Even making the latter argument seems odd to me. But maybe you're just desperately trying to defend yourself. About the drunkenness: Just because you were drunk and made a bad decision doesn't mean that it was an innocent mistake. You could also make a drunk decision that gives away more information than you intended.

Your "WIFOM arguments" also are just ... odd. Of course, we can't know whether you actually received your role or when that happened (unless this was acknowledged by TheGeneral in the thread). I think you might either intentionally leak a PM to play with the system or you could have chanced it and had this fallback argument. And you seriously can't think of anything you would want to say to scum buddies?! How about the results of an investigation?! From the 1 game that I've played, people who come back at arguments with illogical arguments of their own usually move right to the front of the suspect list. I can see why ... lies start to unravel, people get desperate, stories get confused. I'm not sure if that's what is happening here. But it is noteworthy. Can someone who is more experienced at these games tell me if I'm reading too far into this?

As you can tell from my posts, I've been conflicted about this since Zimmah first made the case against you. This is also the first case, I've ever made against anyone in mafia cuz I died so early in my only other game. Maybe I'm a little overeager since I can actually understand (or think so anyway) what is going on in this one. I think I've disclaimed my stance enough that people can make up their own minds about it. I did try to express any reservations I had about it. My vote stands, but I will not be entirely disappointed if we don't lynch you. In my mind though, you won't be clear of suspicion even if Zimmah relays that you were investigated and turned up innocent because of the lawyer in the game. The problem, of course, is that we will only know your true role after you die.

[agentcom]

i like the theory about mob, but not sure if i believe it. at least you put some effort into it. but that could also mean that you're the bad guy. should check that back later when i can think more clearly.

I know you've taken your vote away at this point, but this is just the expanded version of your own theory.

As for me being a bad guy ... I don't really know how to respond to that. MoB acted suspiciously. I was convinced by your argument and started building a picture in my head of why he might have acted the way he did. In my mind, that picture is pretty consistent. There are definitely other explanations. However, in responding to the allegations, I don't think MoB has painted a very clear picture of why he is not mafia.

But if simply drawing the wrong conclusions from the evidence that is out there makes me suspicious ... I can't do anything about that except shut up. Dazza gets suspicion on him for not explaining his votes, people in the other game I was in were lynched for not being active enough. I'm trying to do what I saw the survivors in those games doing ... building good cases and helping town.

[MoB Deadly]

And you seriously can't think of anything you would want to say to scum buddies?! How about the results of an investigation?!

1) I didn't get my role until after night was over, I wouldn't of had a chance to investigate anyone, even if I was a stalker.
2) 1 mafia is dead already. So If I am mafia with 1 other partner, you think I am going to risk a 5% chance (or whatever the number is) for the investigation to get leaked, instantly revealing I am mafia (and possibly my partner) and losing the game for us? All for an investigation result that if I pmed them, wouldn't help us today.

___________________________
Let's take it even farther. Pretend I am a stalker... I investigate someone and I found the cop/watcher. Thats the best possible scenario for mafia right? Why would I PM that to my scum buddy??
1) We need the rest of the support from the town, scum can't pressure a person alone if they aren't being scummy, we need to see how the game plays out.
2) Even if we managed to form a case and a bandwagon, that person will claim cop/watcher. Oh guess what? Everyone is going to unvote unless there is a counter claim.

My point again is. There is not one reason for scum, to PM their scum buddy anything of value during the day at this point.

fastposted

[edocsil]

2) Even if we managed to form a case and a bandwagon, that person will claim cop/watcher. Oh guess what? Everyone is going to unvote unless there is a counter claim.

Lol, Doc is just going to say that the liar is lying and then we are going to hang the liar.

[MoB Deadly]

2) Even if we managed to form a case and a bandwagon, that person will claim cop/watcher. Oh guess what? Everyone is going to unvote unless there is a counter claim.

Lol, Doc is just going to say that the liar is lying and then we are going to hang the liar.

That was agentcom's scenario that IF I was a stalker, and I had indeed found the real cop/watcher in my investigation, and would for some reason cant hold it in till the night and NEED to tell my scum buddy.

[MoB Deadly]

I wasnt saying that any case we form today will be cop/watcher. scum will undoubtably claim villager

[spiesr]

1. You are right. But my point remains that an innocent result cannot clear him.

Yes, as long as the lawyer is alive an innocent result is nearly useless.

2. Maybe it's only a small advantage, but nonetheless it is an advantage. If town doesn't use their new ability, then nothing gained nothing lost. If town can use this to kill scum then it's an advantage.

Well, I suppose simply having the option can represent a potential advantage. As long as the person who gets it is able to correctly weigh the advantages and disadvantages of using whatever the ability is then we are overall better off for having the option I guess.

[zimmah]

mob is answering nearly all his questions in a scum point of view. either he's really good at viewing the game from a scum point of view, or he is scum and doesn't need to act.

i find that quite interesting.

[dazza2008]

I wasnt saying that any case we form today will be cop/watcher. scum will undoubtably claim villager

Are you a villager Mob?

[MoB Deadly]

mob is answering nearly all his questions in a scum point of view. either he's really good at viewing the game from a scum point of view, or he is scum and doesn't need to act.

i find that quite interesting.

Well I do that for 2 reasons. I think that is the best way to catch scum. And I think its the best way to defend myself because Im getting pressured for this PM nonsense and it wouldn't make sense for me to do it as scum. It's a very flawed argument.

I wasnt saying that any case we form today will be cop/watcher. scum will undoubtably claim villager

Are you a villager Mob?

Haha no matter what I am answering yes to this question.
Villager - Yes
Cop/Watcher - Yes (Zimmah would know the real answer)
Scum - Yes

So that wont get us anywhere either.

[dazza2008]

mob is answering nearly all his questions in a scum point of view. either he's really good at viewing the game from a scum point of view, or he is scum and doesn't need to act.

i find that quite interesting.

Well I do that for 2 reasons. I think that is the best way to catch scum. And I think its the best way to defend myself because Im getting pressured for this PM nonsense and it wouldn't make sense for me to do it as scum. It's a very flawed argument.

I wasnt saying that any case we form today will be cop/watcher. scum will undoubtably claim villager

Are you a villager Mob?

Haha no matter what I am answering yes to this question.
Villager - Yes
Cop/Watcher - Yes (Zimmah would know the real answer)
Scum - Yes

So that wont get us anywhere either.

This makes me think you are Scum or Cop/Watcher. Leaning more to scum Vote MoB.

[ghostly447]

It makes you think he is scum because he is claiming townie? Even the cop would call townie in this game due to us not wanting to have him claim. Though that does bring up a point. I think I will mail Zimmah with it because he is the only one who know the cop and I dont want the mafia getting hold of it. But first I need to ask further into this mail leaking, etc...I dont want it to get leaked if at all possible.

[dazza2008]

It makes you think he is scum because he is claiming townie? Even the cop would call townie in this game due to us not wanting to have him claim. Though that does bring up a point. I think I will mail Zimmah with it because he is the only one who know the cop and I dont want the mafia getting hold of it. But first I need to ask further into this mail leaking, etc...I dont want it to get leaked if at all possible.

I just pm'd Zimmah. It could leak and there is no way of stopping it from leaking. Its a risk so only send it if you need to.

[MoB Deadly]

ghostly, who else could possibly know the cop/watcher besides that particular person and zimmah?

[ghostly447]

ghostly, who else could possibly know the cop/watcher besides that particular person and zimmah?

I dont think anyone can. But thats my point. I will explain later if it gets leaked, but for now only Zimmah needs a warning. I asked TheGeneral about it and if it is only a potential leak, I want to know how to NOT intentionally leak. Because it would suck to be trying to keep it quiet and then it be counted as an intentional leak.

So once I know that I am going to ask that several other people send mail to any random person to lessen the odds of this one being leaked.

[MoB Deadly]

My patience has really been tested in this game, I don't know how else to possibly argue my position here. I'm so frustrated, I have explained myself over and over again, on how the evidence against me is very flawed and very weak at best. I have been very active and trying to participate in every conversation, pulling my weight as town.

Has anyone even thought of 1 valid reason if I was scum, why would I try to PM my scum buddy yet? Or are we ignoring all facts/motive and just joining my wagon because it's the "easy" thing to do

And I can't pick out scum from town that are voting on me because any vote I make is clearly OMGUS


fastposted

[MoB Deadly]

ghostly, who else could possibly know the cop/watcher besides that particular person and zimmah?

I dont think anyone can. But thats my point. I will explain later if it gets leaked, but for now only Zimmah needs a warning. I asked TheGeneral about it and if it is only a potential leak, I want to know how to NOT intentionally leak. Because it would suck to be trying to keep it quiet and then it be counted as an intentional leak.

So once I know that I am going to ask that several other people send mail to any random person to lessen the odds of this one being leaked.

Ghostly for yours to intentionally leak - you would need to type, "Intentionally leak this message. or something of the nature"

(I typed *Intentional Leak*)

Other players sending PMs will not decrease your chances of leak. Every single PM has a 5% chance (I think) to leak whether you are the first message or the 30th

[dazza2008]

ghostly, who else could possibly know the cop/watcher besides that particular person and zimmah?

I dont think anyone can. But thats my point. I will explain later if it gets leaked, but for now only Zimmah needs a warning. I asked TheGeneral about it and if it is only a potential leak, I want to know how to NOT intentionally leak. Because it would suck to be trying to keep it quiet and then it be counted as an intentional leak.

So once I know that I am going to ask that several other people send mail to any random person to lessen the odds of this one being leaked.

If you want it to be leaked you tell General on the message. If you don't it still could be leaked. By getting others to send lots of messages will not change the odds of it leaking I don't think mate.

I am no expert but I think the odds stay the same no matter if its 10 or 1000000 pm's. Someone correct me if I am wrong.

[MoB Deadly]

And I will just say, in other games I have accepted my fate and said, "fine I did something scummy in this game, I deserve to be lynched today for the greater good of the town." I'm not doing this here, I am going to put up a fight because I did absolutely nothing scummy and if players think I did, I want to know specific quotes or examples. I've done the best I can to get this game refocused, but everyone seems to gravitate towards one intentionally leaked love letter in which I thought would be funny.

fastposted - yes you are correct dazza

[zimmah]

And I will just say, in other games I have accepted my fate and said, "fine I did something scummy in this game, I deserve to be lynched today for the greater good of the town." I'm not doing this here, I am going to put up a fight because I did absolutely nothing scummy and if players think I did, I want to know specific quotes or examples. I've done the best I can to get this game refocused, but everyone seems to gravitate towards one intentionally leaked love letter in which I thought would be funny.

fastposted - yes you are correct dazza

mob, at first i only presented to case to get some action going. however your reaction to those voted and questions are what makes me believe you are scum.

your use of the word villager instead of townie has been seen as one example.

another example is your last post, in which you admit to act different then the way you normally act as town.

yet another example is you're answering nearly all of the questions with 'if i was scum, then...'

all those things together give me a feeling you're scum.