Rolegift Mafia 2 Endgame: Give 'til it Hurts

[vodean]

actually, i think a no lynch may be our best bet. can we put it at L-2, and then pursue cases until near day end, or until we decide we give up?

[pmchugh]

well if you notice, i never changed my vote. i merely stated that jak was acting scummy, and i agreed with that as well.

I'm confused here, what about jaks play was scummy? Considering your vote is still on speisr and jaks "case" on speisr is what gained him attention I fail to see how you think he is scummy.

so yeah, i see your point that I'm acting scummy too. But i dont think im outside my meta, which is generally pretty scummy.
As for those building a meta case against me, we are past the joke-votes for the most part, so watch it, and again, just because im mafia 50% of the time, doesnt mean i am in this game. in fact, this game is the 1/2 where im not (though im dead in all my scum roles ). Its a meta case, so i cant offer up much more than that.

So you admit to acting scummy, but your defence is that you always act scummy? Nice

And yeah, i was aggressive, early on, on a not so great case, but it jump-started the game on page 1, and its D1, so no cases are gonna be that great. At the time, it was the only case at all, and it made sense to pursue it. when a better case comes along, i will change my vote to it. that includes a better case on me. but for the moment, i dont see any cases as holding any REAL water, so ill leave my vote.

So what purpose does your current vote have? We have already established speisr can say nothing more to defend himself against your vote. Since you promise to change it later then it creates no pressure just now anyway.

for the moment the pressure is still there, but my attention is not. right now im kinda waiting for a case... i dont have anything to present personally, other than the fact that spiesr, jak, myself, and one or two others (less notable) have made scummy statements. that doesnt mean i think they are scum, but it does perhaps warrant some pressure, like we are now putting on vodean.

and LSU, the less info you give on the sort of claims we COULD make, the better it is for town. scum have no idea otherwise, and if we get lucky the first time, it could result in a scum-slip.

You still didn't answer my questions really. Why did you find jak scummy? Why is your vote currently on speisr? Also pmchugh asks that you do not refer to yourself in the third person.

Of course, nobody will have any real idea what their gift does unless we start posting night actions on Day 2 and keep it up every day. So nobody technically has any claim defense for now.

This is exactly the reason why I am planning to suggest a no lynch in two real-time days

Beat me to it. Question is though, will knowing what our gifts are really help us to claim on day 2? Only once day 3 rolls around will you be able to claim why you did what you did, and by then it may be too late. So maybe we can do some good old fashioned scum hunting and ballsy lynching?

[spiesr]

Beat me to it. Question is though, will knowing what our gifts are really help us to claim on day 2? Only once day 3 rolls around will you be able to claim why you did what you did, and by then it may be too late. So maybe we can do some good old fashioned scum hunting and ballsy lynching?

As it stands, I think we should at least make some attempt to do some standard scum hunting today, however I am more able to accept a lynch not coming out of such actions in this game than I would be in general. One thing to keep in mind on the matter is the under /'s rules, should no majority be reached then the person with the most votes might get lynched. I suppose we can avoid that if we end up wanting to do so simply by having "No-Lynch" have to most votes right?

[Yomiel]

So, what's happening? CHKDSK is STILL running! It's been on step 5 of 5 for about two days now, and it's STILL at 0%.>_<

[Hensow]

This is exactly the reason why I am planning to suggest a no lynch in two real-time days

wait dose this mean your going to suggest no lynch on Friday you kinda already did

[Campin_Killer]

So, what's happening? CHKDSK is STILL running! It's been on step 5 of 5 for about two days now, and it's STILL at 0%.>_<

Er...

Vhat?

I mean......vhat?

[jonty125]

actually, i think a no lynch may be our best bet. can we put it at L-2, and then pursue cases until near day end, or until we decide we give up?

Well we could just lynch them as they have nothing to claim.

[everywhere116]

Is there any benefit to a no lynch that isn't present in normal games?

[spiesr]

Is there any benefit to a no lynch that isn't present in normal games?

The only possible one would that right now there is an increased risk of accidentally lynching something important like the cop gifter. Of course, since said important gifters could also be scum, something.

[aage]

Theoretically everyone is a "power role"-gifter in this game... There might be a few fake gifts but the risk of lynching one such power role is too high in my opinion.

And yes, I did already suggest it just now, but I won't be voting anything yet.

[pmchugh]

I think that no lynch is always on the table, but we should not consign ourselves to it this early. This game will be interesting given how over-reliant people are on claims at times.

[thechuck51]

I think that no lynch is always on the table, but we should not consign ourselves to it this early. This game will be interesting given how over-reliant people are on claims at times.

I guess due to my inexperience I fall into that group.

[pancakemix]

I think that no lynch is always on the table, but we should not consign ourselves to it this early. This game will be interesting given how over-reliant people are on claims at times.

This game's a bit different though. It's almost Dethy-like in the way it requires testing. Claims can be a big deal at times (especially in flavor games, which is nearly all of them), but I think that people aren't inclined to commit to a lynch unless they know what the risks are.

[vodean]

should we let random.org decide who we gift to, and then just gift in a circle, so we all find out what our gifts are? or would that help scum (who could just decide not to gift us the cop role one night) more than us?

[jonty125]

should we let random.org decide who we gift to, and then just gift in a circle,

Or gift to people who seem to be town

[Djfireside]

should we let random.org decide who we gift to, and then just gift in a circle, so we all find out what our gifts are? or would that help scum (who could just decide not to gift us the cop role one night) more than us?

Gifting in a circle could work but I doubt that Mafia would play along which may make it easier to determine who is who. I believe everyone has a role that they will gift all the time so its not that they wont give us a role, cause they can only give us theirs. It may make sense to gift in a circle the first night just so everyone knows who should be something from who but I would take it with a grain of salt cause it would be messed with but sounds fesible at least like many have said.

[vodean]

should we let random.org decide who we gift to, and then just gift in a circle, so we all find out what our gifts are? or would that help scum (who could just decide not to gift us the cop role one night) more than us?

Gifting in a circle could work but I doubt that Mafia would play along which may make it easier to determine who is who. I believe everyone has a role that they will gift all the time so its not that they wont give us a role, cause they can only give us theirs. It may make sense to gift in a circle the first night just so everyone knows who should be something from who but I would take it with a grain of salt cause it would be messed with but sounds fesible at least like many have said.

if we gift in a circle: senario 1. everyone finds out their gifts because mafia plays along.
scenario 2. mafia does not play along, and throught claiming, we identify the majority of the mafia in one night.

[aage]

should we let random.org decide who we gift to, and then just gift in a circle, so we all find out what our gifts are? or would that help scum (who could just decide not to gift us the cop role one night) more than us?

Gifting in a circle could work but I doubt that Mafia would play along which may make it easier to determine who is who. I believe everyone has a role that they will gift all the time so its not that they wont give us a role, cause they can only give us theirs. It may make sense to gift in a circle the first night just so everyone knows who should be something from who but I would take it with a grain of salt cause it would be messed with but sounds fesible at least like many have said.

if we gift in a circle: senario 1. everyone finds out their gifts because mafia plays along.
scenario 2. mafia does not play along, and throught claiming, we identify the majority of the mafia in one night.

1a. scum will know all town power roles right away.
1b. scum can sabotage this by simply lying.
1c. / is a troll who will put Town on the wrong track, since he learned this from the first Rolegift game.
1d. I will refuse to share who I sent a gift to during N1 tomorrow anyway. (Mostly for those two reasons.)

2a. scum isn't that stupid.

[jak111]

It should also be mentioned that even with pressure those of us that didn't get pms don't really have anything to "claim" if a pressure is applied to someone to "claim" like normally happens in a game. I want to vote Vodean, but I'm willing to wait since it is still early in this game although there is really no "claim" that can be had other than I didn't get a message.

What are you talking about? People can claim.. I'm the Town Gifter Person Thingy, Haha.

Also Vodean? Why do you find me scummy? That hasn't been answered yet (I haven't made posts lately but you're saying I said something scummy... what? Suggest a case for the day?)

For those who are putting my case in " ' "s, this game really can't have a case D1 without having anything to claim, so your points are invalid

I really see no other way of going around it besides hoping for one of the first people to post was a mafia, letting out an unexpected slip because / only gave mafia their roles and pms.

Seriously, my idea is not any worse than what you guys have cooked up so far.. if anything. Your version requires 100% luck. Mine only requires that they were online and didn't notice they were the only ones to get a pm.

Anyone wanna really fight me about how useless my idea is and how great a random lynch is? I mean you could try, I'll give you props for it, but it wont really budge me anywhere

Finally, for Vodean. Again, what's up with that? You're calling me scummy when I came up with something and you tagged along until others started saying I was wrong. Sheep?

[vodean]

It should also be mentioned that even with pressure those of us that didn't get pms don't really have anything to "claim" if a pressure is applied to someone to "claim" like normally happens in a game. I want to vote Vodean, but I'm willing to wait since it is still early in this game although there is really no "claim" that can be had other than I didn't get a message.

What are you talking about? People can claim.. I'm the Town Gifter Person Thingy, Haha.

Also Vodean? Why do you find me scummy? That hasn't been answered yet (I haven't made posts lately but you're saying I said something scummy... what? Suggest a case for the day?)

For those who are putting my case in " ' "s, this game really can't have a case D1 without having anything to claim, so your points are invalid

I really see no other way of going around it besides hoping for one of the first people to post was a mafia, letting out an unexpected slip because / only gave mafia their roles and pms.

Seriously, my idea is not any worse than what you guys have cooked up so far.. if anything. Your version requires 100% luck. Mine only requires that they were online and didn't notice they were the only ones to get a pm.

Anyone wanna really fight me about how useless my idea is and how great a random lynch is? I mean you could try, I'll give you props for it, but it wont really budge me anywhere

Finally, for Vodean. Again, what's up with that? You're calling me scummy when I came up with something and you tagged along until others started saying I was wrong. Sheep?

no. in general, i agree fully with what you are saying. thee was, however one post, where there was a statement that seemed scummy. im trying not to take sides, but rather point out scummy things on both sides. but i guess that really only helps scum, so ill stop.

[safariguy5]

I don't necessarily like the idea of gifting in a circle mainly because it's definitely possible for mafia to figure out what a power role is easier.

Last Rolegift, we gifted the presents generally to the people who seemed most townish on given days. Hence, Mr. Squirrel and I got like 3 presents each, and I investigated Mr. Squirrel and he turned up scum.

I think I got a lot of the presents after that, both from town and mafia. As I recall, I was the doctor role gifter too.

[spiesr]

no. in general, i agree fully with what you are saying. thee was, however one post, where there was a statement that seemed scummy. im trying not to take sides, but rather point out scummy things on both sides. but i guess that really only helps scum, so ill stop.

So, are you being deliberately non-committal and just attempting to make everybody look scummy. (Presumably because you always look scummy, and if everyone else is made to look scummy you stand out less?)

should we let random.org decide who we gift to, and then just gift in a circle, so we all find out what our gifts are? or would that help scum (who could just decide not to gift us the cop role one night) more than us?

Gifting in a circle could work but I doubt that Mafia would play along which may make it easier to determine who is who. I believe everyone has a role that they will gift all the time so its not that they wont give us a role, cause they can only give us theirs. It may make sense to gift in a circle the first night just so everyone knows who should be something from who but I would take it with a grain of salt cause it would be messed with but sounds fesible at least like many have said.

if we gift in a circle: senario 1. everyone finds out their gifts because mafia plays along.
scenario 2. mafia does not play along, and throught claiming, we identify the majority of the mafia in one night.

We had this same basically discussion Day 1 last time around. Some of the basic points of each side are:
"Gifting in a circle"
The primary advantage to this idea is that everyone knows their gift (and everyone else's) by Day 2. The fear of the scum "screwing it up" it pretty exaggerated. This is very little that they could do in interfere with such a plan that wouldn't ultimately come back to bite them. A more realistic worry is that some town guy decides not to play along and gets himself lynched as a result. The main disadvantage to this strategy is that the scum also learn what everyone's gifts are, allowing them to go after some of the more potent gifters. This can be offset a little, by also allowing defensive roles to find those same gifters.
The other way to play this is for everyone to gift to whomever the feel is the best choice. You can then have everyone claim what gifts they received everyday. This allows players to figure out what gifts they have as well. Although depending on who they gift to, it may take some players several days to be certain about their gift. It differs from the other plan in that the owner of each gift is not exposed. As such it probably won't be until late in the game that the scum could deduce which town player gifts what. The nice thing about this way is that it allows all night actions to be claimed each day without say the worry of exposing the cop. In doing so you can create a web of claimed actions that makes it difficult for the scum to either lie about what they do with the gifts they get or to use them in an obviously anti-town manner. Of course the "gift in a circle" option does a similar thing, it just exposes everyone.

[jak111]

no. in general, i agree fully with what you are saying. thee was, however one post, where there was a statement that seemed scummy. im trying not to take sides, but rather point out scummy things on both sides. but i guess that really only helps scum, so ill stop.

Again, where's the post at bud? You keep referring to it yet not showing it. THAT looks scummy. It looks like you're trying to push the attention elsewhere with no evidence.

[Campin_Killer]

To be honest, vodean is acting scummy, but it's not like anyone can claim at this point.

Anyway, Garlic vodean

LOOK I SPARKLE (no lynch)[I hate you mod and not /]

[spiesr]

To be honest, vodean is acting scummy, but it's not like anyone can claim at this point.

Okay, please explain why someone not being able to claim means we shouldn't lynch today. The point, as far as I can tell, of needing a claim before you lynch someone is basically to help prevent accidentally lynching major town power roles. In this game the roles that people gift may not necessarily match up with alignment. At the very least it probably won't be straightforward. Nobody should have to fake-claim in this game. So, since it seems that the major needs for claims before the lynch are not going to function as normal in this game, why do we need to see a claim?