Dexter Mafia S2. Fires Snuffed: Endgame Town and Dexter Win

by **chapcrap** on Wed Aug 22, 2012 5:25 pm

I find it very hard to believe that BG is a VT with red. I don't think strike wolf would make that mistake. That means BG is lying. That means BG is probably jester.

Weird sequence...

FASTPOSTED by a lot...stupid work makes me type things slow.

by **thechuck51** on Wed Aug 22, 2012 7:14 pm

unvote vote BGtB
I can see the kid being a VT but i think it is less likely that Tom Matthews is.

by **LSU Tiger Josh** on Wed Aug 22, 2012 8:27 pm

back on for the first time in 2 days and find that bg seems to want to cc a vt claim. vote bg why would a captain be vt

by **BGtheBrain** on Wed Aug 22, 2012 8:40 pm

*****

by **ShaggyDan** on Wed Aug 22, 2012 9:40 pm

Alright, sorry for the inactiveness, work has been slamming me lately. Here's my thoughts (some of which is a little dated, I know):

Putting up posts per player (although not a good view of who to lynch) seems like a good way to decide to put pressure on someone. Instead of trying to find scumminess in obvious joke votes it can look at inactives. I don't buy into the "don't lynch experienced players" bull, it's just as likely for them to be scum as town and if they are scum then we have experienced scum. IMO it is more dangerous to have experienced scum than it is beneficial to have experienced town.

BG's post about being a red townie and then backpedalling and saying it was a mistake may just be a genuine mistake (if so it is unfortunate), and if so I can see the reasoning for outing. On the other hand it may be a slip of some nature, I'm willing to believe it was genuine... would be a rather odd strategy if it wasn't.

As for the case on Jonty, although I don't 100% agree on the pressuring stemming from the fact he only put up a list of posts. That said it was effective in getting the ball moving and ended in a claim plus an interesting counter-claim situation which gives us info. Something about Edoc is rubbing me the wrong way at the moment, I can't quite put my finger on it but if I get time after catching up on Alphabet Mafia I'll do a re-read and look into his posts best I can.

The risk / reward works out well for us in terms of lynching a vanilla townie. We've had 2 claims, both vanilla and the deadline is fast approaching. I find it hard to pick a candidate between the two, but since I would much prefer a day one lynch I may as well put a vote somewhere:

[colour=#ff0000]Vote Jonty[/colour]. Reasoning: I would prefer a lynch day one. I find it unlikely that BG would be fakeclaiming as a VT on the basis of role colour. I can't see him fakeclaiming under no pressure as scum. Although I prefer a lynch I'm not horribly opposed to deadlining, going in to night with two VT claims isn't a terible situation I guess.

Also for what it is worth: LSU Tiger Josh hasn't posted to respond to my vote on him (as well as others IIRC). So my vote will change but I will keep a big FOS of doom on Josh.

by **ShaggyDan** on Wed Aug 22, 2012 9:41 pm

EBWOP: Unvote and Vote Jonty

Damn American spelling

.

by **edocsil** on Wed Aug 22, 2012 9:57 pm

Shaggy, the reason I rubbed you the wrong way is that I obliquely suggest hanging rookies over old guys. Sue me, I know how they play, I can trust them to act in certain fashions, and it makes irrational crap less likely in the endgame.

I wash my hands of this day. If you all want to hunt down VTs do it, but you wont get my help, not in the least.

by **ShaggyDan** on Wed Aug 22, 2012 10:16 pm

@Edoc: Your point on hanging rookies over old guys is logical and makes sense. I don't have the same knowledge of their meta as you so FMPOV lynching between the two doesn't concern me as much. After re-reading I can't find anything standing out at me... probably just the overall agressiveness and confrontation was what rubbed me wrong. Also the comments on your agressive meta probably just lodged itself somewhere in the back of my mind. Don't get me wrong, I would definitely prefer a game full of that sort of people compared to pacifists, much more interesting and generates more info:P.

With a day and a half left I doubt we'll get to a lynch. I see thechuck and Josh voting BG for flavour reasons. I don't know the flavour, and so can't comment on that (my gut is to trust logic over flavour reasons anyway). I do however find it odd the two of them made the same point so close to each other (may be nothing, but may be evidence of buddying). Not worthy of a FOS, but noteworthy none the less.

by **edocsil** on Wed Aug 22, 2012 10:24 pm

Mhm, I have a habit of putting people backs up. At least I am less abrasive than I used to be. Boldness does create discussion, like you say.

by **strike wolf** on Wed Aug 22, 2012 11:00 pm

strike wolf wrote:vote count

Chapcrap (1)-chuck
Vodean
/ (1)-epitaph
Chuck
Lsutigerjosh (1)-Epitaph
aage
iron butterfly
Bgthebrain (4)-Aage, Jonty, Chuck, LSUtiger
Edocsil (2)-/, Vodean
Safariguy
Jonty (4)-Iron butterfly, BGthebrain, safari, shaggydan
Epitaph
Shaggydan

with 13 alive, 7 to lynch.

About 2 days left.

I've been asked in PM to clarify if BG is telling the truth about the mistake. I do not believe I can specify on account that it would hurt the game. Therefore, I cannot confirm that BG had a mistake in his PM nor will I deny it. take that as you will.

by **ShaggyDan** on Wed Aug 22, 2012 11:09 pm

If the consensus of people is to try for a lynch on a VT today (for whatever reason) the only way it looks like it will happen is to agree on one of the two candidates.

I am in support of a VT lynch. Although I don't believe that BG would fakeclaim in these circumstances if it ends up being one or two votes off I will support the case and vote. On one hand, I don't see the issue with the colour being a tell and think that coming forward un-pressured is somewhat of a town-tell. On the other hand; there may be issues with the flavour (if someone could clear this up that would be good), and despite me not thinking its an issue; the colour difference could be the showing of something deeper here. The main reason however is; ultimately I would prefer a lynch today and risk vs. reward is in our favour.

by **Epitaph1** on Thu Aug 23, 2012 7:16 am

I'm inclined to believe that BG was honest regarding his color and claim and that it was indeed a mistake. I just don't see why he would fakeclaim in that manner as it would draw a lot of unwanted attention if he's scum.

@Shaggy My only hangup is the flavor as well. Capt. Matthews doesn't play a major role in the show, but he has influence in the operation of the police department. So, it doesn't seem like he would necessarily be vanilla.

My biggest hangup re: BG and jonty is that it is very bizarre to have the Captain of the police department and a kid both lumped in as VTs. I think a lynch of one of these two would shed some light on the game. Although I wasn't digging the initial case on him, I believe jonty's claim the least.

unvote Vote jonty

by **vodean** on Thu Aug 23, 2012 9:12 am

Epitaph1 wrote:I'm inclined to believe that BG was honest regarding his color and claim and that it was indeed a mistake. I just don't see why he would fakeclaim in that manner as it would draw a lot of unwanted attention if he's scum.

@Shaggy My only hangup is the flavor as well. Capt. Matthews doesn't play a major role in the show, but he has influence in the operation of the police department. So, it doesn't seem like he would necessarily be vanilla.

My biggest hangup re: BG and jonty is that it is very bizarre to have the Captain of the police department and a kid both lumped in as VTs. I think a lynch of one of these two would shed some light on the game. Although I wasn't digging the initial case on him, I believe jonty's claim the least.

unvote Vote jonty

i disagree. i think we cant really afford to be lynching townies of any kind. i also think its possible to have both kids and adults as VTs. In fact, i think your logic is so bad that it is vote-worthy. unvote vote epi

by **BGtheBrain** on Thu Aug 23, 2012 9:19 am

*****

by **Epitaph1** on Thu Aug 23, 2012 9:40 am

vodean wrote:
Epitaph1 wrote:I'm inclined to believe that BG was honest regarding his color and claim and that it was indeed a mistake. I just don't see why he would fakeclaim in that manner as it would draw a lot of unwanted attention if he's scum.

@Shaggy My only hangup is the flavor as well. Capt. Matthews doesn't play a major role in the show, but he has influence in the operation of the police department. So, it doesn't seem like he would necessarily be vanilla.

My biggest hangup re: BG and jonty is that it is very bizarre to have the Captain of the police department and a kid both lumped in as VTs. I think a lynch of one of these two would shed some light on the game. Although I wasn't digging the initial case on him, I believe jonty's claim the least.

unvote Vote jonty

i disagree. i think we cant really afford to be lynching townies of any kind. i also think its possible to have both kids and adults as VTs. In fact, i think your logic is so bad that it is vote-worthy. unvote vote epi

So, I assume you believe both claims and would rather have a no lynch on D1?

by **chapcrap** on Thu Aug 23, 2012 10:45 am

Epitaph1 wrote:
vodean wrote:
Epitaph1 wrote:I'm inclined to believe that BG was honest regarding his color and claim and that it was indeed a mistake. I just don't see why he would fakeclaim in that manner as it would draw a lot of unwanted attention if he's scum.

@Shaggy My only hangup is the flavor as well. Capt. Matthews doesn't play a major role in the show, but he has influence in the operation of the police department. So, it doesn't seem like he would necessarily be vanilla.

My biggest hangup re: BG and jonty is that it is very bizarre to have the Captain of the police department and a kid both lumped in as VTs. I think a lynch of one of these two would shed some light on the game. Although I wasn't digging the initial case on him, I believe jonty's claim the least.

unvote Vote jonty

i disagree. i think we cant really afford to be lynching townies of any kind. i also think its possible to have both kids and adults as VTs. In fact, i think your logic is so bad that it is vote-worthy. unvote vote epi

So, I assume you believe both claims and would rather have a no lynch on D1?

Umm... It looks like he wants to lynch you, not a no lynch.

by **safariguy5** on Thu Aug 23, 2012 11:26 am

vodean wrote:
Epitaph1 wrote:I'm inclined to believe that BG was honest regarding his color and claim and that it was indeed a mistake. I just don't see why he would fakeclaim in that manner as it would draw a lot of unwanted attention if he's scum.

@Shaggy My only hangup is the flavor as well. Capt. Matthews doesn't play a major role in the show, but he has influence in the operation of the police department. So, it doesn't seem like he would necessarily be vanilla.

My biggest hangup re: BG and jonty is that it is very bizarre to have the Captain of the police department and a kid both lumped in as VTs. I think a lynch of one of these two would shed some light on the game. Although I wasn't digging the initial case on him, I believe jonty's claim the least.

unvote Vote jonty

i disagree. i think we cant really afford to be lynching townies of any kind. i also think its possible to have both kids and adults as VTs. In fact, i think your logic is so bad that it is vote-worthy. unvote vote epi

Well, if you would be so kind and to tell me who's mafia right now, we can just lynch them instead. [/sarcasm]

Since when has lynching the VT when we have no better cases a bad idea? It's pretty standard Day 1 gameplay. I'm happy we didn't out any power roles, and I think we have enough to go on here.

BG claiming VT based on role PM color I think was exceedingly hasty. Those are the kinds of things that could have backfired on us big time. However, I think that it was an honest mistake and I'd rather pursue the original lynch if we're going to go after VT's.

by **Epitaph1** on Thu Aug 23, 2012 12:06 pm

chapcrap wrote:
Epitaph1 wrote:
vodean wrote:
Epitaph1 wrote:I'm inclined to believe that BG was honest regarding his color and claim and that it was indeed a mistake. I just don't see why he would fakeclaim in that manner as it would draw a lot of unwanted attention if he's scum.

@Shaggy My only hangup is the flavor as well. Capt. Matthews doesn't play a major role in the show, but he has influence in the operation of the police department. So, it doesn't seem like he would necessarily be vanilla.

My biggest hangup re: BG and jonty is that it is very bizarre to have the Captain of the police department and a kid both lumped in as VTs. I think a lynch of one of these two would shed some light on the game. Although I wasn't digging the initial case on him, I believe jonty's claim the least.

unvote Vote jonty

i disagree. i think we cant really afford to be lynching townies of any kind. i also think its possible to have both kids and adults as VTs. In fact, i think your logic is so bad that it is vote-worthy. unvote vote epi

So, I assume you believe both claims and would rather have a no lynch on D1?

Umm... It looks like he wants to lynch you, not a no lynch.

I'm sure she won't mind giving us a "really long post detailing everything out" then.

by **edocsil** on Thu Aug 23, 2012 1:53 pm

Epitaph1 wrote:
chapcrap wrote:
Epitaph1 wrote:
vodean wrote:
Epitaph1 wrote:I'm inclined to believe that BG was honest regarding his color and claim and that it was indeed a mistake. I just don't see why he would fakeclaim in that manner as it would draw a lot of unwanted attention if he's scum.

@Shaggy My only hangup is the flavor as well. Capt. Matthews doesn't play a major role in the show, but he has influence in the operation of the police department. So, it doesn't seem like he would necessarily be vanilla.

My biggest hangup re: BG and jonty is that it is very bizarre to have the Captain of the police department and a kid both lumped in as VTs. I think a lynch of one of these two would shed some light on the game. Although I wasn't digging the initial case on him, I believe jonty's claim the least.

unvote Vote jonty

i disagree. i think we cant really afford to be lynching townies of any kind. i also think its possible to have both kids and adults as VTs. In fact, i think your logic is so bad that it is vote-worthy. unvote vote epi

So, I assume you believe both claims and would rather have a no lynch on D1?

Umm... It looks like he wants to lynch you, not a no lynch.

I'm sure she won't mind giving us a "really long post detailing everything out" then.

It isn't needed. A few idiots are advocating pointless lynches, and you are tailing right along. And, yes I am being rude, but you guys should be fucking embarrassed, thinking that hanging vanillas is productive. We have trackers/watchers, it's a cop theme. They will hunt down lies, and here you all are willingly allowing yourselves to be manipulated. Their story is too complicated to be a scum maneuver (well BGs at least) and this VT hanging will help no one but the scum.

BGtheBrain wrote:Epi wasnt the only one to make the suggestion. (LSU, thechuck)
I feel this is an insincere effort by vodeon to garner some good will by voting someone (possible scummate) at a time we have 2 probably vanilla townies on the block.

Stricly WIFOM but I think vodeon is scum, know Jonty and I are both town and therefore is distancing himself from a mislynch.

I'd bet 5 imaginary dollars on this.

unvote vote vodeon

I largely misunderstood your intent with this post at first, but after a reread it makes more sense. You are right, it is WIFOM, and we cannot lynch on this. If I was a cop I would see him as a prime inv target, but not a good one for lynching. Also, the argument applies just as easily to me, and to a lesser extent you as well for your defense of jonty.

by **aage** on Thu Aug 23, 2012 2:11 pm

edocsil wrote:It isn't needed. A few idiots are advocating pointless lynches, and you are tailing right along. And, yes I am being rude, but you guys should be fucking embarrassed, thinking that hanging vanillas is productive. We have trackers/watchers, it's a cop theme. They will hunt down lies, and here you all are willingly allowing yourselves to be manipulated. Their story is too complicated to be a scum maneuver (well BGs at least) and this VT hanging will help no one but the scum.

If it's a cop themed game there shouldn't be many VT's. Besides, I'd rather lynch one of them rather than have all of those cop roles waste time on them.

by **aage** on Thu Aug 23, 2012 2:18 pm

safariguy5 wrote:
vodean wrote:i disagree. i think we cant really afford to be lynching townies of any kind. i also think its possible to have both kids and adults as VTs. In fact, i think your logic is so bad that it is vote-worthy. unvote vote epi

Well, if you would be so kind and to tell me who's mafia right now, we can just lynch them instead. [/sarcasm]

Sorry for double posting, but I agree with this, by the way. Just in case someone wants to blame me for ignoring Vodean's case. It's day 1, though, and it's Vodean, so I'm slightly inclined not to vote for her.

by **edocsil** on Thu Aug 23, 2012 2:25 pm

aage wrote:
edocsil wrote:It isn't needed. A few idiots are advocating pointless lynches, and you are tailing right along. And, yes I am being rude, but you guys should be fucking embarrassed, thinking that hanging vanillas is productive. We have trackers/watchers, it's a cop theme. They will hunt down lies, and here you all are willingly allowing yourselves to be manipulated. Their story is too complicated to be a scum maneuver (well BGs at least) and this VT hanging will help no one but the scum.
If it's a cop themed game there shouldn't be many VT's. Besides, I'd rather lynch one of them rather than have all of those cop roles waste time on them.

Vodean is who I would like to see inved, not the VTs. I do agree that a full on cop has better things to do.

by **Epitaph1** on Thu Aug 23, 2012 3:15 pm

@edoc. Wash your hands of this day if you will, but lynching is the town's only guaranteed weapon against the mafia. Assuming we have 3 or 4 mafia, we have between a 23% - 31% chance of getting a mafia randomly on D1. I would submit that our chances are even higher since we've had time to feel out some of the players receiving votes. Throw 3rd parties into the mix--which I would bet good money that at least one is in this game--and that number goes up.

Don't assume we have a plethora of investigative roles at our disposal just because Dexter works at the Miami PD. If we lynch a VT, we can look at those pushing for the lynch, whether voting or not, and put them under the microscope on D2.

I find it odd that earlier you noted that the last game had no vanillas and you would expect this to be the same, and now you're all "don't kill the vanillas!" As I stated before, I find the flavor surrounding their claims to be suspect. But flavor aside, I flat out don't believe jonty's claim. Last Dexter mafia there were no vanillas, and this game the first claim is vanilla? Hmmm.

by **BGtheBrain** on Thu Aug 23, 2012 3:16 pm

*****

by **Iron Butterfly** on Thu Aug 23, 2012 3:31 pm

edocsil wrote:
aage wrote:
edocsil wrote:It isn't needed. A few idiots are advocating pointless lynches, and you are tailing right along. And, yes I am being rude, but you guys should be fucking embarrassed, thinking that hanging vanillas is productive. We have trackers/watchers, it's a cop theme. They will hunt down lies, and here you all are willingly allowing yourselves to be manipulated. Their story is too complicated to be a scum maneuver (well BGs at least) and this VT hanging will help no one but the scum.
If it's a cop themed game there shouldn't be many VT's. Besides, I'd rather lynch one of them rather than have all of those cop roles waste time on them.

Vodean is who I would like to see inved, not the VTs. I do agree that a full on cop has better things to do.

If you have a dictionary at your desk look up the word manipulative then re-read your post.