Matrix Mafia Endgame, Town and Survivors win!

[Some7hingCLEVER]

Ok, you're right, vodean DID say he was town (altho you repeated one of his posts)

But you didn't really answer my question. You explained your vote strategy as a defense and I can see you doing that as town trying to get information. But you didn't answer my question completely. You stated you are a not a good lynch candidate but your reason was this explanation of your strategy and is not exactly a reason why you shouldn't be lynched. So why do you feel you are not a good lynch candidate?

-SG7 ( )

your right my bad i was in a rush. well because thats how my whole case started. i mean look i mean its LITERALLY how my hole case started and i have a reason for doing it and i posted it before she got in the game. so she should have seen it. so my case should have never started. therefore lynching me IMO would be pointless and have no reason behind it. IMO

[Some7hingCLEVER]

Ok, you're right, vodean DID say he was town (altho you repeated one of his posts)

But you didn't really answer my question. You explained your vote strategy as a defense and I can see you doing that as town trying to get information. But you didn't answer my question completely. You stated you are a not a good lynch candidate but your reason was this explanation of your strategy and is not exactly a reason why you shouldn't be lynched. So why do you feel you are not a good lynch candidate?

-SG7 ( )

your right my bad i was in a rush. well because thats how my whole case started. i mean look i mean its LITERALLY how my hole case started and i have a reason for doing it and i posted it before she got in the game. so she should have seen it. so my case should have never started. therefore lynching me IMO would be pointless and have no reason behind it. IMO

didnt think this through lol...sounds wierd. anyway i think that she is a better candidate. the only other thing on me besides that is that i was defending and got defended which happened to her. so i mean if you think about it after you take out the fact i BW... cause i discredited it thats the only thing on me and its on her plus more things so it would be incredibly dumb and hypocritical to try to lynch me when she is more scummy. by statistics stand point

[shieldgenerator7]

Ok, so you feel you are not a good lynch candidate because the case and BW on you is flawed, and that the case on vodean has more merit. Correct?

[Some7hingCLEVER]

Ok, so you feel you are not a good lynch candidate because the case and BW on you is flawed, and that the case on vodean has more merit. Correct?

correct.

i kinda like this question system.

[shieldgenerator7]

Good, glad you like it. It seems to work well
and thanks for being cooperative

Ok, vodean. Your turn. Do you feel you are a good lynch candidate? Why or why not?

-SG7 ( )

[thehippo8]

Ok, this is hardly a complete case on me, but I have some questions to ask to clarify exactly why you're voting me hippo.
-What about my playing is scummy, and how is it not about play style like you say the cases on vodean and S7C are?
-How have I not helped town in terms of voting?
-How is this the best case for D3? (uh, optional question as it's not really relevant to my case and rather in relation to other cases)
-Ok, I'm unknown in that I haven't claimed yet?
-How am I "all over the place?

Okay then, let me recap and bring myself up to speed again:

show

-My thoughts are your whole playing style comes accross as - I can do anything and get away with it, no-one suspects I'm scum even when I tell them I am (even in jest) and it is curious that you are there to help stir the pot but come end-game it'll be all "oh look I wasn't even on the VT votes day one and two Seriously scummy play in my book.
-Your voting has been very clever, I will accept that. And indeed you could even go so far as to say that you weren't even on the BW days one and two so aren't you perfect! Yup, too perfect in my book. Unbelievable. Surreal. All knowing. Scum!
-Vodean and clever are vt. Why would we not pursue pressure on the unknown, particularly unknown who play as you have been. You certainly aren't vt! But I reckon you're scum (if I hadn't said that clearly enough yet!).
-So claim already, but if you say vt then frankly you'll be toast as you havn't been playing vt.
-You are "all over the place" in terms of the schedule I set out above.

So there we have it. A case against two vts versus a case against scum - you're choice people. And just to be clear, the credit here goes to Betico for picking this up. I saw some patterns in my epic post but it took me another look to see this! So great stuff Betico!

[shieldgenerator7]

Yeah great find betiko.

haha yeah I guess I do come across as "i can do anything and get away with it" because I'm town and I know it and not afraid of posting my thoughts in any manner I want to.wait, did I just say I'm town? oooh... scumslip :/
honestly I don't think it's my play-style to say "i told you so" and I don't think you can find any post I've ever made in any games I've plyed where I've used that to my defense or whatever. tho if you do, it'll just mean I forgo about it So altho it's a valid point and definitely looks like a tactic mafia could use, it's not something I'm kown for and is not meta-gamable on me
so I'm perfect because I haven't voted! Yes! Praise the Lord! I have finaly released myself of my huma ways.... yeah! (ok that sarcasm was just bad)
ok I get what you mean. If you believe both vodean's and S7C's case then the next step is to target a player wh hasn't claimed yet and seems scummy and vote them till they claim. Alright. Claiming preemptively is scummy so I'll wait until my BW gets full before spilling the beans.
Don't worry, I won't claim VT. i'll claim mafia GF muahaha!! lshicastr
You didn't answer my question. How does "the schedule you set out above" show that I am all over the place? How and why is this scummy or add to my case in any way?

pardon me if any of that seems excessively rude or cocky. I'm tired and should go to bed now

-SG7 ( )

[vodean]

No. I am not a good lynch candidate. I have contributed significantly to cases against clever, hippo, and edoc (even if they do turn up town), and created more discussion than at most any time previously, and this has kept going for a week, rather than a day. I have claimed town, and at this point everyone seems to believe it. Meanwhile, though i took in 70 pages of info, i only changed my vote once, unlike the inconsistent Clever, hippo, edoc (when he's around), and SG7.

The case against me is as follows:

• i jumped in the game late and made some erroneous posts while i was catching up.
• I claimed early

The case against clever, on the other hand is much stronger:

• Clever has made scummy posts without being 50 pages behind (my first was earlier than that)
• clever has claimed, but it seems like there are some questions about his claim
• clever, edoc, and hippo have consistently defended eachother throughout the game

Finally, clever seems not to want to be lynched, while i have accepted that as a VT, my job is to help town, and if that means dying, then i will die.

On another note, clever would you mind re-hashing your argument with proper grammar? im finding it really hard to read your posts (even the one and two-liners.

[thehippo8]

No. I am not a good lynch candidate. I have contributed significantly to cases against clever, hippo, and edoc (even if they do turn up town), and created more discussion than at most any time previously, and this has kept going for a week, rather than a day. I have claimed town, and at this point everyone seems to believe it. Meanwhile, though i took in 70 pages of info, i only changed my vote once, unlike the inconsistent Clever, hippo, edoc (when he's around), and SG7.

The case against me is as follows:

• i jumped in the game late and made some erroneous posts while i was catching up.
• I claimed early

The case against clever, on the other hand is much stronger:

• Clever has made scummy posts without being 50 pages behind (my first was earlier than that)
• clever has claimed, but it seems like there are some questions about his claim
• clever, edoc, and hippo have consistently defended eachother throughout the game

Finally, clever seems not to want to be lynched, while i have accepted that as a VT, my job is to help town, and if that means dying, then i will die.

On another note, clever would you mind re-hashing your argument with proper grammar? im finding it really hard to read your posts (even the one and two-liners.

Oh for goodness sake Vodean, what pious claptrap. You're not that special ... lol. I "protect" you and you slap it in my face? Now that's gratitude for ya! Lol. Seriously, what you talking bout? I'm not protecting Clever, Edoc or you and looking back they haven't done that for me neither. It's just town getting real that we can't afford to continue dissing on those who we know are town. So what are you playing at? Hmm?

On a more constructive note, let's hear you (and everyone else's) thoughts on the case against SG7, thanks.

[pmchugh]

Ok, you're right, vodean DID say he was town (altho you repeated one of his posts)

But you didn't really answer my question. You explained your vote strategy as a defense and I can see you doing that as town trying to get information. But you didn't answer my question completely. You stated you are a not a good lynch candidate but your reason was this explanation of your strategy and is not exactly a reason why you shouldn't be lynched. So why do you feel you are not a good lynch candidate?

-SG7 ( )

Honestly I think your line of questioning is flawed, I don't feel like I am a good lynch candidate because I am town and this is the exact same for every player.. you can ask people to explain their actions but to try get players to provide a case as to why they should not be lynched is ridiculous as the answer should be obvious. You can see this in clevers response where by he defends the accusations made against him, because you can't provide a case for being townie, same with vodean.

unvote vote no lynch- Protest vote against current lynch options.

Who do you recommend we lynch instead?

I don't think we will be able to turn around this into a good lynch unless someone does some digging, I have mentioned a few names that are on my radar anyway.

[betiko]

ok so who thinks that between clever and vodean one is definitely not town? who thinks that it wouldn't be a good idea to look somewhere else?

SG7 is always joking about being scum in every game, and he often ends up actually being scum. i think it wouldn't hurt to make him claim, i'm really not convinced about the 2 major cases (vodean and clever) we have here.

[Some7hingCLEVER]

No. I am not a good lynch candidate. I have contributed significantly to cases against clever, hippo, and edoc (even if they do turn up town), and created more discussion than at most any time previously, and this has kept going for a week, rather than a day. I have claimed town, and at this point everyone seems to believe it. Meanwhile, though i took in 70 pages of info, i only changed my vote once, unlike the inconsistent Clever, hippo, edoc (when he's around), and SG7.

The case against me is as follows:

• i jumped in the game late and made some erroneous posts while i was catching up.
• I claimed early

[*]has been constantly defended by multiple players[/list]

The case against clever, on the other hand is much stronger:

• Clever has made scummy posts without being 50 pages behind (my first was earlier than that)
  really your using the fact that you were behind made you make mistakes as an excuse? that is cat shit. i dont care if your 3 pages or 90 pages behind your post should not be scummy. and maybe you should put in a word doc or something then post all at one if thats the case. otherwise this is ridiculous.
• clever has claimed, but it seems like there are some questions about his claim
  already said something about it.
• clever, edoc, and hippo have consistently defended eachother throughout the game

have you not been defended by other players? here let me put it up there for you if your gonna play this game. if you believe someone is town defend them and that is how mafia works.

Finally, clever seems not to want to be lynched, while i have accepted that as a VT, my job is to help town, and if that means dying, then i will die.

On another note, clever would you mind re-hashing your argument with proper grammar? im finding it really hard to read your posts (even the one and two-liners.

and i contributed to the cases on hippo and eldario and the one on you...point invalid

k while we are on the subject. if everyone believed your claim would you have a case on you and would you have 8 votes on you? i dont think so ..point invalid

did you not read my whole last big post...i have a reason for what i do and if my reason doesnt hold true and i have broken strategy find it and you can use it against me otherwise...point invalid

p.s. incase noone noticed i added things to her qoute mines are italised underlined and bolded.

[jonty125]

Ok, you're right, vodean DID say he was town (altho you repeated one of his posts)

But you didn't really answer my question. You explained your vote strategy as a defense and I can see you doing that as town trying to get information. But you didn't answer my question completely. You stated you are a not a good lynch candidate but your reason was this explanation of your strategy and is not exactly a reason why you shouldn't be lynched. So why do you feel you are not a good lynch candidate?

-SG7 ( )

Honestly I think your line of questioning is flawed, I don't feel like I am a good lynch candidate because I am town and this is the exact same for every player.. you can ask people to explain their actions but to try get players to provide a case as to why they should not be lynched is ridiculous as the answer should be obvious. You can see this in clevers response where by he defends the accusations made against him, because you can't provide a case for being townie, same with vodean.

unvote vote no lynch- Protest vote against current lynch options.

Who do you recommend we lynch instead?

I don't think we will be able to turn around this into a good lynch unless someone does some digging, I have mentioned a few names that are on my radar anyway.

vote Pmchugh , he says we wants people to some digging but isn't doing it himself. Also, people defend from cases all the time without saying - "I am town".

[shieldgenerator7]

Well, I don't know if my line of questioning was flawed (I really don't think it was), but I didn't exactly get the results I was looking for. Both vodean and S7C stated that they were not good lynch candidates because the case on the other person has more merit. I makes me wonder whether they're both scum trying to throw each other under the bus (wifom but still a possibility), or both town thinking the other is scum. Anyway, I'm guessing one of them is scum and I'll take a stab in the dark and say it's vodean. VOTE VODEAN
Yes I know this is inconsistent with what I said earlier about not voting vodean on principle of having to catch up just recently, just bear with me here

-SG7 ( )

[safariguy5]

Vote Count

clever(8)- leehar, dj, vodean, ghostly, soundman, IB, doom, jak
vodean(7)- edoc, chuck, clever, mob, neb, everywhere, shield
shield(2)- betiko, hippo
no lynch(1)- pmc
pmc(1)- jonty

With 20 alive, it takes 11 to lynch.

[vodean]

sg7, by going back on things you just said, you are making the case against YOU stronger. Also, by voting people you have said you think are innocent, the same thing happens.

Clever, just because i have defended people, and people have defended me does not mean that every time i get pressured at all there is a group of 2 people who ALWAYS come and defend me.

[Some7hingCLEVER]

sg7, by going back on things you just said, you are making the case against YOU stronger. Also, by voting people you have said you think are innocent, the same thing happens.

Clever, just because i have defended people, and people have defended me does not mean that every time i get pressured at all there is a group of 2 people who ALWAYS come and defend me.

edoc has defended me once and so has hippo its not evertime.

[everywhere116]

Well, I don't know if my line of questioning was flawed (I really don't think it was), but I didn't exactly get the results I was looking for. Both vodean and S7C stated that they were not good lynch candidates because the case on the other person has more merit. I makes me wonder whether they're both scum trying to throw each other under the bus (wifom but still a possibility), or both town thinking the other is scum. Anyway, I'm guessing one of them is scum and I'll take a stab in the dark and say it's vodean. VOTE VODEAN
Yes I know this is inconsistent with what I said earlier about not voting vodean on principle of having to catch up just recently, just bear with me here

-SG7 ( )

If it's just a shot in the dark, why not vote for the person who is closest to lynch anyway?

[Some7hingCLEVER]

Well, I don't know if my line of questioning was flawed (I really don't think it was), but I didn't exactly get the results I was looking for. Both vodean and S7C stated that they were not good lynch candidates because the case on the other person has more merit. I makes me wonder whether they're both scum trying to throw each other under the bus (wifom but still a possibility), or both town thinking the other is scum. Anyway, I'm guessing one of them is scum and I'll take a stab in the dark and say it's vodean. VOTE VODEAN
Yes I know this is inconsistent with what I said earlier about not voting vodean on principle of having to catch up just recently, just bear with me here

-SG7 ( )

If it's just a shot in the dark, why not vote for the person who is closest to lynch anyway?

in all honesty i dont see why its a shot in the dark. look at the points on me. now on her. i have like one that has actual credit to it. and she has like two or three. i dont see how its a shot in the dark at all.

[vodean]

Well, I don't know if my line of questioning was flawed (I really don't think it was), but I didn't exactly get the results I was looking for. Both vodean and S7C stated that they were not good lynch candidates because the case on the other person has more merit. I makes me wonder whether they're both scum trying to throw each other under the bus (wifom but still a possibility), or both town thinking the other is scum. Anyway, I'm guessing one of them is scum and I'll take a stab in the dark and say it's vodean. VOTE VODEAN
Yes I know this is inconsistent with what I said earlier about not voting vodean on principle of having to catch up just recently, just bear with me here

-SG7 ( )

If it's just a shot in the dark, why not vote for the person who is closest to lynch anyway?

in all honesty i dont see why its a shot in the dark. look at the points on me. now on her. i have like one that has actual credit to it. and she has like two or three. i dont see how its a shot in the dark at all.

wow, everything... you just want to kill people fast, dont you? thats pretty scummy. it seems like you are never here, but every time you do show up, one of your posts looks like this.

clever... i pointed 3 points out on you, there are only two on me... what you said to negate yours applies to mine. hence, if you think i am scum, then you should think that you are scum leader

[Some7hingCLEVER]

Well, I don't know if my line of questioning was flawed (I really don't think it was), but I didn't exactly get the results I was looking for. Both vodean and S7C stated that they were not good lynch candidates because the case on the other person has more merit. I makes me wonder whether they're both scum trying to throw each other under the bus (wifom but still a possibility), or both town thinking the other is scum. Anyway, I'm guessing one of them is scum and I'll take a stab in the dark and say it's vodean. VOTE VODEAN
Yes I know this is inconsistent with what I said earlier about not voting vodean on principle of having to catch up just recently, just bear with me here

-SG7 ( )

If it's just a shot in the dark, why not vote for the person who is closest to lynch anyway?

in all honesty i dont see why its a shot in the dark. look at the points on me. now on her. i have like one that has actual credit to it. and she has like two or three. i dont see how its a shot in the dark at all.

wow, everything... you just want to kill people fast, dont you? thats pretty scummy. it seems like you are never here, but every time you do show up, one of your posts looks like this.

clever... i pointed 3 points out on you, there are only two on me... what you said to negate yours applies to mine. hence, if you think i am scum, then you should think that you are scum leader

not when the stuff on you is worse. you should never claim early in the first place. its better for mafia not to know who you are. either way its your opinion against mine. and me and you will never come to an agremeent. let me look at the sg7 case. i dont really like it that much. but ill still give it a look.

[pmchugh]

Well, I don't know if my line of questioning was flawed (I really don't think it was), but I didn't exactly get the results I was looking for. Both vodean and S7C stated that they were not good lynch candidates because the case on the other person has more merit. I makes me wonder whether they're both scum trying to throw each other under the bus (wifom but still a possibility), or both town thinking the other is scum. Anyway, I'm guessing one of them is scum and I'll take a stab in the dark and say it's vodean. VOTE VODEAN
Yes I know this is inconsistent with what I said earlier about not voting vodean on principle of having to catch up just recently, just bear with me here

-SG7 ( )

Sigh, you are pinning an impossible question on them and wondering why they can't answer. Why are you not a good lynch target shield?

I don't think we will be able to turn around this into a good lynch unless someone does some digging, I have mentioned a few names that are on my radar anyway.vote Pmchugh , he says we wants people to some digging but isn't doing it himself. Also, people defend from cases all the time without saying - "I am town".

If you can provide a single valid reason as to why you are town without claiming then I will vote myself. People can explain their own reasoning and point at other peoples scumminess but there is extreme difficult in trying to show yourself to be townie. One thing you are right about is my reluctance to do the digging myself, I replaced halfway through the game and I have never really gotten to a level where I feel confident on my tells or have a prepared case, so now I am attempting to ask questions and make people think beyond "lets lynch the guy who's playing style we disagree with".

I need to start a thread on fallacies in mafia games.

[DoomYoshi]

Well, I don't know if my line of questioning was flawed (I really don't think it was), but I didn't exactly get the results I was looking for. Both vodean and S7C stated that they were not good lynch candidates because the case on the other person has more merit. I makes me wonder whether they're both scum trying to throw each other under the bus (wifom but still a possibility), or both town thinking the other is scum. Anyway, I'm guessing one of them is scum and I'll take a stab in the dark and say it's vodean. VOTE VODEAN
Yes I know this is inconsistent with what I said earlier about not voting vodean on principle of having to catch up just recently, just bear with me here

-SG7 ( )

Sigh, you are pinning an impossible question on them and wondering why they can't answer. Why are you not a good lynch target shield?

I don't think we will be able to turn around this into a good lynch unless someone does some digging, I have mentioned a few names that are on my radar anyway.vote Pmchugh , he says we wants people to some digging but isn't doing it himself. Also, people defend from cases all the time without saying - "I am town".

If you can provide a single valid reason as to why you are town without claiming then I will vote myself. People can explain their own reasoning and point at other peoples scumminess but there is extreme difficult in trying to show yourself to be townie. One thing you are right about is my reluctance to do the digging myself, I replaced halfway through the game and I have never really gotten to a level where I feel confident on my tells or have a prepared case, so now I am attempting to ask questions and make people think beyond "lets lynch the guy who's playing style we disagree with".

I need to start a thread on fallacies in mafia games.

There already is such a thread pmc.

Clever, when I asked what you did for town you provided a satisfactory response. I am going to go back and reread what happened concerning the hippo wagon (which I think I may have started).

However,

No. I am not a good lynch candidate. I have contributed significantly to cases against clever, hippo, and edoc (even if they do turn up town), and created more discussion than at most any time previously, and this has kept going for a week, rather than a day. I have claimed town, and at this point everyone seems to believe it. Meanwhile, though i took in 70 pages of info, i only changed my vote once, unlike the inconsistent Clever, hippo, edoc (when he's around), and SG7.

The case against me is as follows:

• i jumped in the game late and made some erroneous posts while i was catching up.
• I claimed early

[*]has been constantly defended by multiple players[/list]

The case against clever, on the other hand is much stronger:

• Clever has made scummy posts without being 50 pages behind (my first was earlier than that)
  really your using the fact that you were behind made you make mistakes as an excuse? that is cat shit. i dont care if your 3 pages or 90 pages behind your post should not be scummy. and maybe you should put in a word doc or something then post all at one if thats the case. otherwise this is ridiculous.
• clever has claimed, but it seems like there are some questions about his claim
  already said something about it.
• clever, edoc, and hippo have consistently defended eachother throughout the game

have you not been defended by other players? here let me put it up there for you if your gonna play this game. if you believe someone is town defend them and that is how mafia works.

Finally, clever seems not to want to be lynched, while i have accepted that as a VT, my job is to help town, and if that means dying, then i will die.

On another note, clever would you mind re-hashing your argument with proper grammar? im finding it really hard to read your posts (even the one and two-liners.

and i contributed to the cases on hippo and eldario and the one on you...point invalid

k while we are on the subject. if everyone believed your claim would you have a case on you and would you have 8 votes on you? i dont think so ..point invalid

did you not read my whole last big post...i have a reason for what i do and if my reason doesnt hold true and i have broken strategy find it and you can use it against me otherwise...point invalid

p.s. incase noone noticed i added things to her qoute mines are italised underlined and bolded.

You contributed to the case on hippo. How is a derailment of a case a contribution? I need to go back and research this. I just moved into my first house (as opposed to a rental), so it has been a busy day.

[thehippo8]

Always good to go back and see what happened there! You will see that the BW ended when it was clear I was vt. But also note the later comment (today) by our tracker confirming that I never went anywhere at night. Gotta look at it all!

Of more interest to me Doom, what do you think about the case on Shield? Frankly I think the whole Vodean and Clever thing is nonsense and time wasting.

show

[Some7hingCLEVER]

thank you doom. i didnt so much derail it it was more i proved that the case on him was faulty.