[Official] NBC Mafia Town Win MVP=trinicardinal

[chapcrap]

Most questions I created were bogus as in I didn't care about their responses. The plan was not to tip anyone on my current suspicions so they'd possibly lower their guard for scumtells. Didn't quite work as intended, though.

I assumed as much.

Anyway, at this point I pretty much think we need to get both PCM and Medefe to claim. We could possibly get both claiming Jack and Leitz would be forced to pick one of them. That should give us a better comprehension of the possible mafia groups. If only one claims Jack, then he is cleared and we'll go from there in assembling the puzzle of who has to die.

I agree with this. Pretty much everyone is claimed except them. If they are town, they should have no problem claiming. Of course, getting MeDeFe in here will be problematic.

[MeDeFe]

I agree with this. Pretty much everyone is claimed except them. If they are town, they should have no problem claiming. Of course, getting MeDeFe in here will be problematic.

I'm right here, staying up to date on the proceedings. And I still think we should go ahead and lynch MoB.

[MoB Deadly]

Okay I got to the part where Trini responded to my answers to rodion and I think that will take a whole separate post, so I will post what I have up until Rodi's questions.



My comments are in RED

ok, the last 7 and a half pages have been read and re-read.

The 2 claims and counterclaims give us one important bit of information that I don't think has been explicitly stated yet: Someone we believed to be practically cleared is scum. Either dazza or chapcrap imo. Leitz, I think not. I also don't believe the scum would go to such elaborate lengths as to have one person claim a role and then have someone else counterclaim the same character. We have had a scene with Lock, Shock and Barrel, and a scene with Oogie Boogie. Those 4 are definitely not town. The previous list of unclaimed (excluding me) was:

MoB Deadly
Epitaph1
betiko
trinicardinal
pancakemix

MoB and trini are claiming the reindeer, betiko and Epitaph and claiming Igor, one person from both pairs is town, that leaves us with only 3 candidates for scum. Since I know I'm town I know we need to take a closer look at those we had previously considere practically cleared. If chap hadn't unvoted when he did I would have said he's it, as things are I'm not sure. Luckily we still have our cop and a busdriver. *hint**hint*

Am I one of the only players thinking Chap has been one of the most pro-town individuals in this game? I have never gotten a scum vibe from him once in this game, and I feel like MeDeFe is trying to redirect the cop to investigate chap here, now that the mafia have more roles to worry about, such as the inventor, and possibly our new doc that I believe is fake.


I'm believing trini over MoB, trini's night actions make more sense in context and his breadcrumb is far better imo. Bringing up the character trumps talking about what a hypothetical bus driver should do, at the time I even thought it odd to mention the reindeer at all but didn't attach much importance to it. The likelihood of trini pulling that out of nowhere on day 1 and for the reindeer to actually be in the game is quite low.
of course you are going to believe Trini over me, he "cleared" you.

Red again

First of all: Unvote

Alright guys, I've reread from about page 90 all the way through to the end. I'm not going to quote any posts (unless I believe it to be necessary) as I noticed it was very confusing at times at figuring out some posts full of quotes.
I am getting confused/lost too. This is hard.

The feeling I currently have based on the last days after all the claims is that first of all both bread crumbs are rubbish. MoB just says what should happen, something most players do or often occurs in mafia games. I'm pretty sure no-one will ever see that as a tell. So trini seems more likely.

Not taking in account whether or not a bus driver is told if he would be role blocked or not I am more keen to believe trinis claim (based on rereading everything, not only the breadcrumbs!). Although I must say that MoBs counterclaim only a few minutes afterwards was impressive.

Based on the assumption MoB is mafia I can consider the people he "cleared":

1. betiko
2. PCM

In D3 I made a whole case on dazza and why I believed he is mafia. Not much later PCM too made a case on dazza. He does mention he did not know about my post before he posted but how much of that is true. Bandwagoning??

About the Igor claims I cannot tell much, that line is pretty much still in the middle and waiting for some tells. What I do noticed is this post from dazza:

There is a lot of risk in going for 1 of the counter claimed roles.

I very much believe trini over MoB but understand why it is risky.

Not sure who to believe in the Igor claim though. What about lynching pancake since we are more sure that he is scum?

The counter claimed roles: MoB & betiko. So dazza is protecting MoB who in turn is protecting PCM and ALSO betiko. It seems like there is some kind of connection between these four players. Yes I know dazza suggest lynching PCM but with the current vote count that is more like a mask to me.
How is dazza protecting me? I am pretty sure he has disagreeed with every sentence I have stated today. At least it feels that way.

[MoB Deadly]

Looking at Trinis post only: again, responses in Red

The question has been raised more than once, why block me over the Cop? Well it was clear from N2 that I was bussing our Cop. If they roleblock Jim, they wont know WHO they roleblocked, and I could end up roleblocking the kill. They have no reason TO roleblock Jim, because it wouldn't work since I was bussing him.


1. You have to catch up on this game? with such an important time and with counter claims on 2 roles and (you claim) such an important role that you have - you are not up to date? and yet you've been active in your other mafia games which are not at such a crucial stage? I find that strange - I have had to make sure that I am more active to try to make sure that mafia is lynched today.

There is nothing I can do but apologize, I have been very active this game but recent management changes in the past year at work and things going on at home has messed up my activity greatly. I have NOT been active in many other games, all of my games have suffered. Since then I have stopped signing up for games. I am trying to be as active as possible.

2. How do you think mafia figured out it was you? they had a number of players to choose from and yet were able to figure out that you were the busdriver?
I dont know how they knew it was me. Maybe they were able to put it together by their 4 players + the claims and possible fake claims + they know one person is Jack, and the they know Betiko wasnt the bus because it wouldn't make sense for betiko to bus himself with the doc. Or maybe they didnt KNOW it was me, but they had it narrowed down?

3. If it really is the case that the longer the bus is alive the stronger the bus gets why roleblock you and not kill you. It seems to me that if they knew it was you then it would make sense to kill you and not just roleblock you and leave you to get stronger.
Maybe it was your best plan to fake claim against me. If you wanted to just kill me without roleblocking, theres no guarantee I didn't bus myself to keep myself alive, if I did that I had a 4/10 shot of killing one of you. So in order to kill me you would have to Roleblock AND kill me. Doing that would have left Strike alive, and Jim to investigate whoever he wanted. Obviously the mafia was threatened by Strike (Lightbulb!! after this I am going to look at some things Strike said to maybe piece this together). Either Mafia knew Strike was gong to attack one of them next, or they feared what Strike's ability was as Zero. He also soft-claimed a power role by saying there was a 0% chance he was hammering Rodion.
Summary:
They thought Strike was more of a threat than Jim (they were right, kind of)
They had a good idea I was bus, if not guaranteed I was bus.
Or the plan was for you to claim the bus so that the real bus claimed so now you pretty much know every role.

4. If they already knew you were the busdriver why is it necessary to fakeclaim the busdriver to get you to claim (where you are saying that they already knew who you were)?
Like I said, maybe it wasn't guaranteed. I am not sure why the mafia is counterclaiming back and forth. They most likely were provided with fake claims, maybe they weren't very good I guess. Or they believe they can debate better than the town players.

5. Why is it necessary to fakeclaim at all with the situation as it was early in D4? Lynch a townie and its pretty much game over.
Because you needed a way to protect MeDeFe. He has been under scrutiny for a couple days now, there aren't many ways you can defend him AND yourself at the same time.

[MoB Deadly]

EBWOP

Looking at Trinis post only: again, responses in Red

[b][color=#FF0000]The question has been raised more than once, why block me over the Cop? Well it was clear from N2 that I was bussing our Cop.

I didnt bus the cop N2, I bussed the doc. but it wouldnt make any sense NOT to bus the cop on N3, unless I wanted to bus myself. You guys get the point.

[MoB Deadly]

I dont have time to read page 99. Ill try tomorrow.

[Rodion]

Still think PCM and Medefe should claim.

[betiko]

I don't see how Safari confirmed Jim was a cop by accepting me, but I'm not arguing with your conclusion!

Damnit, innocent was a damn good response! Had you answered anything else I'd be more convinced you were lying.

Most questions I created were bogus as in I didn't care about their responses. The plan was not to tip anyone on my current suspicions so they'd possibly lower their guard for scumtells. Didn't quite work as intended, though.

Alright, we are working from the premise that mafia has 4 people. I'm agreeing with Jonty's prediction of godfather, roleblocker and 2 goons since town also has a good ammount of vanillas.

Basically we have one guaranteed mafia between Trini and MoB. Trini would have been the obvious choice if this was not MYLO since he was counterclaimed, but in MYLO-massclaim the counterclaim should not be considered more reliable than the claim. As far as breadcrumbing goes, I didn't like either Trini or MoB, but Trini's made just a little bit more sense. The players they've both decided to switch during the 3 nights seemed reasonable. However, the warning that MoB was roleblocked does not sit well with me. Busdrivers don't usually know.

Regarding Epitaph and Betiko we also have one guaranteed mafia, with the possibility that both are (unlike the Trini/MoB case where Safari's night scene indicated the existence of a busdriver). I don't think I've ever seen a backup doctor, but the favor does fit if he is the doctor's assistant in the movie. Inventor is also a weird role, but what is REALLY weird is the name of the powers (like Trini found in a powerpoint slideshow) and the fact that he waited until N3 to use his investigation. I mean, come on, really? You claim you have 1 investigation and 1 protection. JOATs/Inventors commonly use their investigations on N1 as that is their most important power. I fail to see why an inventor would use nothing on N1, then protect on N2 (and the reason you gave for protecting Swifte on N2 could have been used for protecting him earlier on N1) and only use the investigation on N3, meaning he would not be able to clear/bust anyone at all before D4.

We then have PCM joining Epitaph's wagon with the only reason being "someone must die and he is closer to getting lynched". Flabbergasting. The wagon was good, however, to establish some things.

Vote Count

Mob(2)- trini, dazza
Epitaph(5)-betiko, leitz, MoB, PCM, chap
betiko(2)- epitaph, jim


With 10 alive, it takes 6 to lynch.

If Epitaph is town and gets lynched, town is down to 5 people with mafia having 4. They just need to block the busdriver and shoot one townie to seal the win. Chap had Epitaph at L-1 for about 1 day and nobody hammered.

That means that if Epitaph flips town later on the game, we should consider Dazza cleared. Possibly Medefe too (I don't know if he was online to make the game-winning hammer when the opportunity presented itself, so I can't certainly tell if that would make Medefe town or not, but most likely it would).

If Epitaph is town, mafia is pretty much guaranteed to be MoB, Betiko, PCM and Leitz/Chap.

Anyway, at this point I pretty much think we need to get both PCM and Medefe to claim. We could possibly get both claiming Jack and Leitz would be forced to pick one of them. That should give us a better comprehension of the possible mafia groups. If only one claims Jack, then he is cleared and we'll go from there in assembling the puzzle of who has to die.

Rodion, being my first mafia game, and even being a noob; I assumed that with the doc being the only power role out on night 1 he would protect himself (wouldn't you try to save your ass first in swifte's situation, really???). What would've you done on night one in my situation; protect swifte, with the little info we had, instead of saving it for the next opportunity when pure logic said he had his own ass covered?? also I was pretty sure we had a watcher at the time that would keep mafia away from him. And it was tempting to use the investigation I have to say. I was pretty close to ask one on shield or chap at the time but I decided to wait one more day.
On night 2 we had both a doc and a cop in the open; isn't that a better reason to use my protection device? Call it a bad move if you want, but it's what seemed to be the best move for me at the time; it's easy to criticize it now, like we could criticize jimfinn for investigating strike instead of mob or trini last night.
And yes; I would like to ask you guys if you have ever seen such role as a backup doctor. pure bullcrap, hope no one is buying this.

and yes, I fully agree, I want to see medefe and pcm claim. 2 jacks now?? lol

[betiko]

by the way, I didn't get my answer; does an innocent investigation result means the investigated player cannot be third party? I assumed it meant so, but you are making me doubt now.

[Rodion]

by the way, I didn't get my answer; does an innocent investigation result means the investigated player cannot be third party? I assumed it meant so, but you are making me doubt now.

Innocents can be 3rd-party, but I find that unlikely in this game.

From the way you reason, should I assume you knew the effect of your inventions before you used them (you knew the forccefield generator was a doctor protection and you knew the seeing crystal was a cop investigation)?

Did Safari allow you to use your protection on yourself?

[Rodion]

Oh, backup doctors are also commonly referred to as nurses.

I don't remember ever seeing one, though.

[betiko]

by the way, I didn't get my answer; does an innocent investigation result means the investigated player cannot be third party? I assumed it meant so, but you are making me doubt now.

Innocents can be 3rd-party, but I find that unlikely in this game.

From the way you reason, should I assume you knew the effect of your inventions before you used them (you knew the forccefield generator was a doctor protection and you knew the seeing crystal was a cop investigation)?

Did Safari allow you to use your protection on yourself?

yes, i had been told what the devices were for, and yes, I could've applied them to myself, no restrictions in that sense were given. I guess that's why saf gave them commonly used invention names, you seem to say that in some cases you are given an invention with an unknown use. at the very first of day 1 I thought there was weird a link with shieldgenerator7 or something, as his name was really close to one of my devices, but linking stuff with usernames and not characters seemed silly after thinking about it! Here is my famous quote from day 1:

let s put the question the other way; out of the 16 who do we trust a little? to tell the truth, i think that rodion by asking this question is one of the guys i would trust the most... aparently you guys have played this a few times together so you know each other better.. this means that I don t trust SG7

unvote vote SG7

It was a bit twisted I have to say, it was my first steps in the game and I was wondering why he had a name so close to the one of my device and I was a bit paranoid about it..

[MeDeFe]

Am I one of the only players thinking Chap has been one of the most pro-town individuals in this game? I have never gotten a scum vibe from him once in this game, and I feel like MeDeFe is trying to redirect the cop to investigate chap here, now that the mafia have more roles to worry about, such as the inventor, and possibly our new doc that I believe is fake.

Yes, I am trying to do just that. Actually, investigating either chapcrap or dazza is fine, I think it's likely one of them is the missing scum.

[chapcrap]

Am I one of the only players thinking Chap has been one of the most pro-town individuals in this game? I have never gotten a scum vibe from him once in this game, and I feel like MeDeFe is trying to redirect the cop to investigate chap here, now that the mafia have more roles to worry about, such as the inventor, and possibly our new doc that I believe is fake.

Yes, I am trying to do just that. Actually, investigating either chapcrap or dazza is fine, I think it's likely one of them is the missing scum.

[safariguy5]

Vote Count

Mob(2)- dazza, MeDeFe
Epitaph(3)-betiko, MoB, PCM,
betiko(3)- epitaph, jim, trini


With 10 alive, it takes 6 to lynch.

We're at 100 pages, and while I'm all for discussion and activity (which have been good) this game needs to get moving. I'm going to set a deadline for Midnight March 1st PST. So you guys get about a week and a half because I have 2 midterms at the end of February. If anyone would like me to prod someone, please let me know.

Day ends midnight March 1st PST. If a lynch is not reached by then, a no lynch will be declared.

[Leitz]

yes, i had been told what the devices were for, and yes, I could've applied them to myself, no restrictions in that sense were given. I guess that's why saf gave them commonly used invention names, you seem to say that in some cases you are given an invention with an unknown use. at the very first of day 1 I thought there was weird a link with shieldgenerator7 or something, as his name was really close to one of my devices, but linking stuff with usernames and not characters seemed silly after thinking about it! Here is my famous quote from day 1:

...

Is this common? I thought you couldn't use your powers on yourself?

[betiko]

yes, i had been told what the devices were for, and yes, I could've applied them to myself, no restrictions in that sense were given. I guess that's why saf gave them commonly used invention names, you seem to say that in some cases you are given an invention with an unknown use. at the very first of day 1 I thought there was weird a link with shieldgenerator7 or something, as his name was really close to one of my devices, but linking stuff with usernames and not characters seemed silly after thinking about it! Here is my famous quote from day 1:

...

Is this common? I thought you couldn't use your powers on yourself?

well I didn't use them on myself but I wasn't told I couldn't use them on myself in the description. I guess that if saf didn't make any precision about that it's because I could've perfectly used it on myself.. the forcefield generator at least, obviously not the seeing crystal, which would ve been a nice waste.

[chapcrap]

yes, i had been told what the devices were for, and yes, I could've applied them to myself, no restrictions in that sense were given. I guess that's why saf gave them commonly used invention names, you seem to say that in some cases you are given an invention with an unknown use. at the very first of day 1 I thought there was weird a link with shieldgenerator7 or something, as his name was really close to one of my devices, but linking stuff with usernames and not characters seemed silly after thinking about it! Here is my famous quote from day 1:

...

Is this common? I thought you couldn't use your powers on yourself?

It depends on the role. Docs can not usually protect themselves. Which, kind of make sense if you think about practically.

Cops don't investigate themselves, also makes sense.

Busdrivers can switch themselves.

I would say that with the flavor of the invention abilities, it makes sense that he would be able to use them on himself. However, most healing/saving abilities can't be used on yourself, but if is in the form of a shield or forcefield, it makes sense.

Can PCM report or be replaced?
Can MeDeFe claim please? You didn't even respond to asking you to be claimed. What the crap?

[betiko]

yes, i had been told what the devices were for, and yes, I could've applied them to myself, no restrictions in that sense were given. I guess that's why saf gave them commonly used invention names, you seem to say that in some cases you are given an invention with an unknown use. at the very first of day 1 I thought there was weird a link with shieldgenerator7 or something, as his name was really close to one of my devices, but linking stuff with usernames and not characters seemed silly after thinking about it! Here is my famous quote from day 1:

...

Is this common? I thought you couldn't use your powers on yourself?

It depends on the role. Docs can not usually protect themselves. Which, kind of make sense if you think about practically.

Cops don't investigate themselves, also makes sense.

Busdrivers can switch themselves.

I would say that with the flavor of the invention abilities, it makes sense that he would be able to use them on himself. However, most healing/saving abilities can't be used on yourself, but if is in the form of a shield or forcefield, it makes sense.

Can PCM report or be replaced?
Can MeDeFe claim please? You didn't even respond to asking you to be claimed. What the crap?

wait wait... cops can't investigate themselves? didn't jim say he investigated himself on night 1? sorry I think there is a whole chapter I am going to ask to be repeated about that from mob and trini... cause no one said anything to jimfin when he said he used the first investigation on himself to see if he was a sane cop or not... I think this whole thing can be quite interesting to look back on.

[dazza2008]

yes, i had been told what the devices were for, and yes, I could've applied them to myself, no restrictions in that sense were given. I guess that's why saf gave them commonly used invention names, you seem to say that in some cases you are given an invention with an unknown use. at the very first of day 1 I thought there was weird a link with shieldgenerator7 or something, as his name was really close to one of my devices, but linking stuff with usernames and not characters seemed silly after thinking about it! Here is my famous quote from day 1:

...

Is this common? I thought you couldn't use your powers on yourself?

It depends on the role. Docs can not usually protect themselves. Which, kind of make sense if you think about practically.

Cops don't investigate themselves, also makes sense.

Busdrivers can switch themselves.

I would say that with the flavor of the invention abilities, it makes sense that he would be able to use them on himself. However, most healing/saving abilities can't be used on yourself, but if is in the form of a shield or forcefield, it makes sense.

Can PCM report or be replaced?
Can MeDeFe claim please? You didn't even respond to asking you to be claimed. What the crap?

wait wait... cops can't investigate themselves? didn't jim say he investigated himself on night 1? sorry I think there is a whole chapter I am going to ask to be repeated about that from mob and trini... cause no one said anything to jimfin when he said he used the first investigation on himself to see if he was a sane cop or not... I think this whole thing can be quite interesting to look back on.

I don't think Chap said they can't. He said they don't because generally they don't.

[trinicardinal]

folks I'm sorry that I haven't had much time the last few days to post. This is carnival time in my country so I'll try to post tomorrow or Wednesday at latest.

[Rodion]

Time is an issue now, so PCM and Medefe should claim without further delay.

[pancakemix]

Time is an issue now, so PCM and Medefe should claim without further delay.

I've already explained this. I'm not going to again.

[MeDeFe]

Time is an issue now, so PCM and Medefe should claim without further delay.

I've already explained this. I'm not going to again.

And I've thought things through, at this point I need to claim since town roles are so far in the open that it's practically impossible to hide any more.

I am Jack Skellington. Town, masoned to Strike Wolf, who now sadly is no longer among us.

[betiko]

Time is an issue now, so PCM and Medefe should claim without further delay.

I've already explained this. I'm not going to again.

well we are a few asking you to claim here, along with medefe... unless jack is hiding somewhere in the claimed roles; one of you 2 is jack and the other is a scum. I need to relook at this later, but don't think both can be scum.

fastposted