Balance Not Included Come Back Mafia End Game: Mod Down!!!

[Fircoal]

While I'm going to FOS skoffin for the OMGUS vote, I've not really seen much else to comment on.
Unvote my joke vote.

I know OMGUS votes are in general scummy but are you even looking at the context that is around it or are you just saying that to say that? Because you're not adding much of anything nor as you pushing the game forward. Your statement seems robotic and devoid of any feeling of trying to get scum. Just a "Well this person did X so they're slightly more suspcious." Context is important. What was so scummy about Skoffin's OMGUS vote?

The real question is why does it matter whether or not they have played here before? 8 Years is a long time and easy to forget stuff and is certainly not worth a vote or really a fos. After rereading, both djfireside and nagerous were relatively quick to jump on this, almost like they were trying to start a bandwagon. Not the most concrete but it is the most suspicious thing I could find. So which one is more suspicious?

Not to play the jump on new guy route but Fircoal is right, and with nothing else to run with Ill take a misstep in that and run with it, call it what you will
Vote DirtyDishSoap

Seems like he's taking off with the first that could be seen as 'suspicious.' Weird considering how small it seems but idk.

Joking aside that has to be viewed as a misstep and definitely worthy of a FOS.
If DDS is already going to be underplaying his mafia credentials here the question is why?

This feels like nag is trying to throw suspicion but not voting to seem more town-like and definitely feels more off.
Unvote Vote Nagerous

Again, are you reading the context of the thread. There's very little that's here to really go off of. Thusly it makes sense to more or less try to create something out of nothing. Furthermore look at how Nag has been playing this game. In my view he hasn't been rushing to push others off the ledge but rather asking the key questions to try to see if someone should be pushed off the ledge. Which is how it should be done. Bandwagon starting is bad but there is a difference between trying to get somewhere and knowingly picking a weak argument and trying to turn it into something big.

In any case, I'm more interested in Chu now. He's playstyle matches that of pokemon mafia, along with that he's given soft defences for weak cases that won't go anywhere anyway (No one is really going to punish a guy for forgetting he played 9 years ago, surely) while seemingly finding it strange that I may test reactions for undisclosed reasons. I don't think he should be a stranger to reaction testing.

Uhhh I'm not sure if the cases I argued against in Pokemon mafia were exactly weak. Furthermore I have a tendancy to want to defend against crappy cases in general whether I'm town or scum. It's hard to "rewrite the meta" as it were when this is only the 3rd game I've played (as well as a fair few of us) in a while. And only one of those games do you know my role. Sure you can make some comparisons but it's hard to piece things together like that.

Here's my issue with the reaction testing. What are you really testing? Because if you have nothing to go off of most players should be able to shrug it off. The ones who won't are those that are going to be too nubbish to realize that there is nothing linking them to the vote that's on them, or those that are too nervous and freak out over every little vote. While it is true that scum in general is going to be more conserned with staying alive, I don't think it's a big enough difference to make a difference. That being most people are going to push you off.

That said there was one thing I missed in that. While I do still think that on the level of that person it is useless it is interesting to see what others do in response. For example, I more or less did that back at you. (I also did it for the funs but whatever.) You replied back unphased as expected. However at least two people (Ragian and Leginoaire) seemed suspicious of your OMGUS vote. This strikes me as interesting as it seems in context it doesn't seem that out of the expected.

In any case. Unvote. Vote: Legionaire. It's not much but I feel a sense of squirmness from him. He hasn't added much nor has he really tried to. Every post of his in the last week has been him defending himself:

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Plus the robotic FOS I mentioned before. It's not much but I would like to see him talk more personally.

[Fircoal]

I am going to do something scummy here and seemingly flip flop on my initial comments, however I want to run with this so f*ck it

. Djfireside when you said 'fircoal is right' did you actually do the research in the archives and see that DDS had played back in 2008 or did you simply say 'fircoal is right' without looking it up?

I did a forum search under mafia games for his username and found the game that they were in. Fircoal was running the game if I am not mistaken. I was not going to give all the details cause one game doesnt matter for another but for my flavor of knowledge, this proved they were aware and I was not picking on anyone.

If you dont believe me, here you go

http://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewto ... tyDishSoap

Oh hey it's one of my games! Sadly not one of my good ones ;n; I blame Mandy.

[Samlen]

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Did you read my other post where I backtracked or did you just choose to ignore it to support your stance ?

When I first read i thought it certainly worthy of a FOS however at that point I hadn't realised that it was 8 years ago we were talking about but thought it maybe more recent this is why when I quizzed Fireside above who actually looked it up if he saw that it was 8 years ago AND also I note only worthy of a FOS not a vote. Are all people who use the FOS scummy then your eyes.. I didn't feel it worthy of committing a vote at that moment in time

I felt more like the FOS was weird considering the situation, and I felt the backtracking could easily be because you didn't see the case bandwagoning off. Either way the main point was to stir up some discussion since it was dieing off a bit.
1. Ragian thinks it's not worth looking into (Not much to read into, could be town/scum seeing no case)
2. You brought in a defense with a little bit of an attack (Expected considering your playstyle I've seen.)
3. Mitch jumps on the wagon (This is apparently his playstyle but it still bothers me)
4. Mets asks whether it was alignment indicative or if we disagree with you (Little bit of both for me, but mostly to get people talking a little more. What do YOU think of it @mets?)
5. Mitch responds to mets (Not much to say here)
6. Fircoal brings up a defense for you and an attack on legionaire (Funny fircoal mentions creating something out of nothing when i'm doing a similar thing to create discussion. The bit about legionaire is interesting and his response should be interesting).

[strike wolf]

I feel like my posts keep getting eaten. Vote count later when I'm at my actual computer not my phone. Activity is picking up a bit so deadline remains for Monday.

[Fircoal]

(Funny fircoal mentions creating something out of nothing when i'm doing a similar thing to create discussion.).

My point was more that reading through the whole thread it seems that Nag is trying to figure out who is scummy rather than jump onto or create a bandwagon. I feel like if he was going to create a bandwagon he could have done so with DJ rather than try to ask questions before jumping on right away. My issue isn't that you're making a weak argument to try to get something, but that the context of the thread puts Nag in a better light, at least to me.

[Ragian]

The game is slow, I'll give you that. I'm currently on vacation skiing, but I'm trying to check in at least once a day.

Now, back to business. As chu mentioned (I'm still not sure if I am allowed to use that name), it's rather weird to poke someone in an attempt to get a reaction if there's no accusation to react to. That earns a FOS from me. No need for a vote because skoffin can easily make amends.

FP'ed by skoffin making even less sense with an OMGUS vote?

Quoting you as you were the most recent. chuchuchu!

In a game of no info and no posting, you make what info you can. Voting someone even for no good reason is a way to test their reaction (do they get defensive etc), how other people react to the vote (do people jump in to defend, do they try to start a wagon on me etc) and so forth. It's also a way to see whether someone is actually lurking or simply not around. Someone not around won't respond, lurkers respond to votes on themselves pretty quick.

In any case, I'm more interested in Chu now. He's playstyle matches that of pokemon mafia, along with that he's given soft defences for weak cases that won't go anywhere anyway (No one is really going to punish a guy for forgetting he played 9 years ago, surely) while seemingly finding it strange that I may test reactions for undisclosed reasons. I don't think he should be a stranger to reaction testing.

I like this reply. Honestly, I was going to vote Skoffin. I have changed my mind based on this reply, though.

Stop measuring dicks. Neither of you guys' posts are moving the game forward.

Now, there are two things on the agenda here: 1) Has DDS played before, is he allowed to have forgotten, and does it even matter; and 2) Are dj and Nag scummy for voting and fossing respectively.

In terms of 1), I don't think there's anything to it at all. Whether or not someone remembers having played here 8 ish years ago doesn't seem alignment indicative to me. In terms of 2), I can understand why dj is going with something, anything in this snail paced game. So he gets a pass too. Usually, I would agree that Nag looks uncommittal in order to wash his hands if we offed DDS eventually. However, I thought so in the last game I played with Nag, too, and I was awfully wrong. So in my view, he's playing to his meta. Basically, I'm dismissing either side of this.

Just got to nip down for breakfast before the entire hotel turns up. I'll be back with a vote in an hour or tonight.

1) game was 8 years ago do you remember a game you played 8 years ago hell i dont even know what year it was 8 years ago without looking at the calander.

2)if you vote for someone forgetting they played a game 8 years ago thats on you but kinda stupid especially when the guy did say he has played before if he said he had never played before that would be voteable

Did you misread my post or something? Or am I just not getting yours (highly likely). Could you perhaps expand on your message to me?

Also, sorry about the long quotes. Difficult on an iPad...

[Djfireside]

Im also in agreement to Skoffin's thoughts. Sometimes you have to move to make others move with you. With all jumping on me for my vote, its a single vote you dont have to follow but the reaction that came from it brought more info than it did not happening. This is still Day 1 so sometimes grasping at straws is all you can do. Ill review a bit more once work calms down but have to deal with this first.

UNVOTE DDS

[Ragian]

Rereading the thread, I find legion to be the most scummy. It may be blinders from the beginning of the game that cloud my judgement, but his and my initial back and forth topped with chu's thoughts make Legion come off as scummy to me.

unvote vote legion

I would also like to add that dakky and mets seem quiet. Mets, from what I understand from previous games, likes to shoot down bullshit rather than add, so perhaps this is in line with his meta. Dakky, however, is usually very vocal. I have no issue with changing one's style of play, but dakky has also seemed somewhat rigid in his replies. That raises one brow here.

Any thoughts on the game so far, dakky and mets?

Fp'ed by dj

[Metsfanmax]

Rereading the thread, I find legion to be the most scummy. It may be blinders from the beginning of the game that cloud my judgement, but his and my initial back and forth topped with chu's thoughts make Legion come off as scummy to me.

unvote vote legion

I would also like to add that dakky and mets seem quiet. Mets, from what I understand from previous games, likes to shoot down bullshit rather than add, so perhaps this is in line with his meta. Dakky, however, is usually very vocal. I have no issue with changing one's style of play, but dakky has also seemed somewhat rigid in his replies. That raises one brow here.

Any thoughts on the game so far, dakky and mets?

Fp'ed by dj

The signal to noise ratio is especially low in this game -- usually I shoot people down when they're expressing strong opinions that aren't based in the evidence. But in this game very few people are even offering strong opinions. I think that while the concerns about legion are somewhat valid, even for standard D1 mafia it's an unusually low threshold to be focusing on. There just isn't much content for me to agree or disagree with; how can I really offer an opinion on a statement like "[the] back and forth ... come off as scummy to me?" I can't argue with gut instincts, which is what most people have offered so far.

I do think that the reaction testing is valid in a situation like this -- sometimes you just need to say something to get the ball rolling, and once people have some subject to talk about, the game gets going for real. However, agreeing with Skoffin on this does not mean that Skoffin is not scummy. It may not be alignment indicative at all. For example, if Skoffin was scum and didn't like where the current votes were headed, a smart tactic would be to start up some bullshit that gets the conversation going in a different direction, especially if you were confident that people would forget about the initial bullshit once the real conversation began.

I guess the person I am the most suspicious of right now is Djfireside because it almost seems like he's actively trying to avoid having a real content-based conversation. I care less about whether the case on DDS is valid than about what the motivations are of the people who are talking about the case.

[strike wolf]

Sorry for the wait. I thought I had posted one yesterday but I guess I failed to hit submit:

Vote Count

Dakky
Nag (3)-, Nag, Sam, Mitch
Mitch (1) Tim
Mets
Legion (2)-Chu-pacabra, Rage
Rage
DirtyDishsoap
Chu (1) Skoffin
Tim (1) Mets
Skoffin
Djfireside
Samlen (1) Dakky

With 12 alive it takes 7 to lynch.

Deadline set for Monday 2/20 currently. Activity has picked up. Thank you for that but if you could keep it up and maybe even increase it a little bit more, I'd be really appreciative. Pretty please with a cherry on top?

P.S. I've decided rather than fight the flow that instead if you don't unvote I will still count the vote but please for clarity try to unvote. It helps me remember that I need to take your previous vote off.

[Ragian]

But you're not one to stir up shit yourself, Mets?

[Metsfanmax]

There are enough aggressive mafia players in our player community that I don't have to be the person who creates D1 drama, so I generally choose not to.

[Ragian]

I think you should at least vote to move the game forward.

[Metsfanmax]

vote Ragian

[Ragian]

Cheers, mate. I'm keeping my eye on you.

[Skoffin]

If you would like someone to be aggressive af, I'm willing to give it a go; I just started a brutal new job this week however, so tomorrow I'll be around to take names and rek scrubs.

[DirtyDishSoap]

If you would like someone to be aggressive af, I'm willing to give it a go; I just started a brutal new job this week however, so tomorrow I'll be around to take names and rek scrubs.

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[Ragian]

At least Mets voted in green this time.

@dakky,do you find anyone scummy at this point?

[TimWoodbury]

1) Has DDS played before, is he allowed to have forgotten, and does it even matter; and 2) Are dj and Nag scummy for voting and fossing respectively.

In terms of 1), I don't think there's anything to it at all. Whether or not someone remembers having played here 8 ish years ago doesn't seem alignment indicative to me. In terms of 2), I can understand why dj is going with something, anything in this snail paced game. So he gets a pass too. Usually, I would agree that Nag looks uncommittal in order to wash his hands if we offed DDS eventually. However, I thought so in the last game I played with Nag, too, and I was awfully wrong. So in my view, he's playing to his meta. Basically, I'm dismissing either side of this.

Just got to nip down for breakfast before the entire hotel turns up. I'll be back with a vote in an hour or tonight.

1) game was 8 years ago do you remember a game you played 8 years ago hell i dont even know what year it was 8 years ago without looking at the calander.

2)if you vote for someone forgetting they played a game 8 years ago thats on you but kinda stupid especially when the guy did say he has played before if he said he had never played before that would be voteable

Did you misread my post or something? Or am I just not getting yours (highly likely). Could you perhaps expand on your message to me?

its possable i misunderstood your question or

so 1)you asked if we can hold it agaisnt dds for forgetting he had played a game here 8 years ago- my response if you knew you had played before jsut not here would you forum check to see if by the off chance years ago you played so in essance i dont blame dds for forgetting he had played here especially it being 8 years ago

2)are they scummy for voting or FOS dds for forgetting a game 8 years ago... to a point kind of yes but not much... i say yes because lets face it who actually remembers playing 1 game out of who knows how many 8 years ago they obviously was looking for a reason to call him out and took advantage of the fact that he forgot 1 game 8 years ago

[TimWoodbury]

vote Ragian

is this simpy because he asked you to vote or is there some sort of reason or jsut testing the reaction?? if testing the reaction what do you think of ragians reaction

[DirtyDishSoap]

It's since been retracted, but my initial statement earlier was either buried or skimmed by. The FOS remains. I can't vote on D1 without any information other than folks trying to bandwagon, rather have N1 commence and see where it takes us from there.

[Fircoal]

It's since been retracted, but my initial statement earlier was either buried or skimmed by. The FOS remains. I can't vote on D1 without any information other than folks trying to bandwagon, rather have N1 commence and see where it takes us from there.

In general not lynching is a bad idea. It's one of the biggest tools that town has, in order to get information and to have the % chance that a scum dies. Almost any lynch is preferable to a no lynch.

[dakky21]

@dakky,do you find anyone scummy at this point?

Since we're still in the joke phase obviously (or very close to it), I don't have anyone on my list who looks extremely scummy.
I do notice that Tim is repeating what others said in his own words, sticking to the every case... but he does that in every game so.. not enough to pursuit him.

fp'd by Chu and as he says - yeah, generally not lynching is a bad idea and is generally scummy.

[Samlen]

(Funny fircoal mentions creating something out of nothing when i'm doing a similar thing to create discussion.).

My point was more that reading through the whole thread it seems that Nag is trying to figure out who is scummy rather than jump onto or create a bandwagon. I feel like if he was going to create a bandwagon he could have done so with DJ rather than try to ask questions before jumping on right away. My issue isn't that you're making a weak argument to try to get something, but that the context of the thread puts Nag in a better light, at least to me.

Fair enough. I generally go by the belief that mafia are sneaky enough to seem town most of the time and that we gotta read into everything we can. However, still waiting on what legionaires response will be to your post since that seems more likely to lead somewhere than nag.

[Metsfanmax]

(Funny fircoal mentions creating something out of nothing when i'm doing a similar thing to create discussion.).

My point was more that reading through the whole thread it seems that Nag is trying to figure out who is scummy rather than jump onto or create a bandwagon. I feel like if he was going to create a bandwagon he could have done so with DJ rather than try to ask questions before jumping on right away. My issue isn't that you're making a weak argument to try to get something, but that the context of the thread puts Nag in a better light, at least to me.

Fair enough. I generally go by the belief that mafia are sneaky enough to seem town most of the time and that we gotta read into everything we can. However, still waiting on what legionaires response will be to your post since that seems more likely to lead somewhere than nag.

You are right. People who are veterans and are good at this game realize that the most viable strategy as scum is to really play as if you are town to the extent that you can. So they'll often intentionally create distance between themselves and their scum buddies, and try to pair up with town players and create a "town circle" (as storr has called it). So it is difficult to infer alignment -- but as you say, the response to that is to meet the challenge by really thinking carefully about what people are saying, not to back down from that and just decide that we cannot figure anything out.

It is a crude tool admittedly, but often just forming random wagons is a way to break through that. How people respond to wagons formed against them is much more revealing than their play with the spotlight is not on them.