[Official] NBC Mafia Town Win MVP=trinicardinal

[chapcrap]

Epitaph(5)-betiko, leitz, MoB, PCM, chap

I think looking into this vote should tell us a lot.

The fact that he wasn't hammered when the opportunity was there leads me to believe that he is scum and his scum buddies didn't want to lynch him or he's town and all the scum had already voted. So, with those 2 options in mind...

I agree.

First of all, I know that I'm town. So, if it were to be the second of my options, that means all 4 of those players would have to be scum for the scum not to hammer on that. I find that to be VERY unlikely because Leitz and MeDeFe are now linked. So, the 4 of them can not all be scum because that would mean that MeDeFe and Leitz aren't actually linked.

The Medefe/Leitz link only proves that Leitz is a liar if Medefe ends up not being Jack. That does not clear Leitz.

So, if we think more about the first option, Epitaph has to be scum. Various others could be with him, but that vote, along with the linkage of Leitz and MeDeFe means that Epitaph almost assuredly is.

Rodion, if you believe that I am town, am I looking at that right?

No, because even if I were to believe that you are town, Leitz can still be mafia. It is possible that Epitaph had 4 scum in his wagon when he was L-1ed.

So, you do not think that Leitz and MeDeFe are linked then? Either both town or both scum?

[Rodion]

Not necessarily.

If Medefe is scum, Leitz is necessarily scum.
If Leitz is town, Medefe is necessarily town.

Medefe town, however, does not prove anything about Leitz.
Leitz scum also does not prove anything about Medefe.

Anyone can say "player X is town". It doesn't make us confirmed cops or one-way lovers even if those players end up being town, do they?

[chapcrap]

Yes, you're right. I was thinking about it incorrectly.

I'm not 100% convinced that PCM is the person to lynch, but I'll go along with Rodion, because I think he is truly town and I think that his logic is correct. It might be nice for PCM to try to defend himself. He has grown really scarce of late. unvote vote PCM

[safariguy5]

Vote Count

Mob(2)- dazza, MeDeFe
Epitaph(2)-betiko, MoB,
betiko(2)- epitaph, trini
MeDeFe(1)- PCM
PCM(1)- chap


With 10 alive, it takes 6 to lynch.

Day ends midnight March 1st PST. If a lynch is not reached by then, a no lynch will be declared.

[Rodion]

Vote PCM.

[shieldgenerator7]

Rodion, about the blue thing: I have some comments to make on that but I'll wait until aftergame because I don't want to influence gameplay being replaced and all.

[Rodion]

I would still put chap in green with the others; he hasn't claimed and I don't give him 100% vt; there could be some bulletproof role or something for a mafia. but I think it's less likely.

Please explain this. If you investigated Chap and you found him to be innocent, why would you want him on the list of players that should claim?

[betiko]

I would still put chap in green with the others; he hasn't claimed and I don't give him 100% vt; there could be some bulletproof role or something for a mafia. but I think it's less likely.

Please explain this. If you investigated Chap and you found him to be innocent, why would you want him on the list of players that should claim?

because i was not sure of the results for neutrals, if you came up with an unguilty result no matter what in those cases. also, actually i m just thinking after looking at your cases that i can't clear him because he could be the godfather.. and forgot about that. at least i m sure he's either town, neutral or godfather.

[trinicardinal]

i just thought tha shield was really playing weird all game and now that pcm is playing really weird... and just thought of a last scenario: pcm is santa claws the survivor and doesn't want to claim... in that case, is it really a loss for town? not really but it would be a chance lost to kill a mafia. based on my assumptions, pcm should be one of the mafias though..
for me chap, leitz and medefe are cleared, only leaves me with 4... so pcm can only be mafia. i don't care lynching epi, trini, pcm or dazza first. no other combo that these 4 fits based on what I know.

If we lynch PCM and he is mafia, MoB is most likely mafia as well. Don't you agree?

possibly; my problem is why would trini say that i got role blocked last night. that makes me see him as scummy, unless he missinterpretated something in the night actions, and maybe they don't have just a role blocker...

fastposted and going to bed, 3am here

A) I never said that you definitely got roleblocked - I basically said that if they had targeted jim it would have been directed to you - Don't put words in my mouth.
B) All we have is your claim that you did an investigation and got a result which is highly questionable given everything. I don't believe your claim and I'm sure others have a hard time believing it as well.
C) Here are some quotes relating to your claim and some comments that I have in relation to those.

I am Igor - Town Inventor

Epitaph cannot be Igor because that is me. I wanted to wait just a little to see what happened, but it's not going too much on epitaph's way in terms of votes.

I had 2 devices that I have already used. The first one was on night 2, I used a forcefield generator on swifte because we had both the cop and the doctor out. swifte was going to protect the cop and no one was going to protect him, he was just going to be watched.

My second device, the seeing crystal, was used LAST NIGHT on chapcrap and i got an investigative result. Chap is innocent. I had still a few doubts and I said on day 3 that i would look at it more actively on day 4 (the chap case). I therefore didn't get roleblocked!!!! I used my night action.

basically that's your original claim. after I expressed my opinion of the invention names you had this to say:

well trini; i don't make up the devices i'm given to start with. As you know, this is my first mafia, but you can ask more experienced players about the inventor role, I don't get to give names to the inventions.

you later posted this one

My apologies. I really don't have as much time as I'd like to dedicate to this.

Interesting turn of events with a second counterclaim. It seems to me the only logical recourse is to lynch one of the claimed. Seeing as Epitaph is closest to a lynch, that seems to be the best course to follow.

Vote Epitaph

What a joke. Two people claim the same character: one a backup doctor which fits the character but people question the balance the role adds and the other an inventor which does NOT fit the character and has a list of inventions that have no correlation to the flavor of the game. Who's more believable? Well, the role that doesn't make any sense, of course!

dr frinkelstein makes completely sense as a doctor? the mayor makes completely sense as a cop? sally being one way lover with jack makes completely sense compared to the movie? Igor is doctor frinklestein's assistant, nothing more. frinklestein is not a doctor, he is a mad scientist with lots of inventions, to which igor contributes. What are the most commonly used devices for an inventor? from what i ve been told those are the 2 standard devices for an inventor in any mafia game.

so all along you were only taking about 2 inventions. Your language is very specific and definitely implied that it was only two devices - When Rodion asked you about a possible 3rd and 4th you don't want to properly answer. I submit that you are not answering because you can't come up with names on your own and possibly don't even know what other standard devices an inventor might have.

well, I am going to claim now so you understand better my arguments. I am Igor - Town Inventor

Epitaph cannot be Igor because that is me. I wanted to wait just a little to see what happened, but it's not going too much on epitaph's way in terms of votes.

I had 2 devices that I have already used. The first one was on night 2, I used a forcefield generator on swifte because we had both the cop and the doctor out. swifte was going to protect the cop and no one was going to protect him, he was just going to be watched.

My second device, the seeing crystal, was used LAST NIGHT on chapcrap and i got an investigative result. Chap is innocent. I had still a few doubts and I said on day 3 that i would look at it more actively on day 4 (the chap case). I therefore didn't get roleblocked!!!! I used my night action.

Hey betiko - i decided to do a little search around after your claim and guess what I found?


http://cataldo.freeshell.org/mafia/mscumB.swf

that link carries you to a little mafia guide... under the heading of Protagonistic we get several roles of which inventor is one (2nd row - 3rd from the left in the figures. When I click on the inventor (figure) I get a nice little synopsis -



Now,at least, I know where your "invention" names came from. - makes your claim even more unbelievable I'd say.

That's quite funny! never seen that page; but obviously if you hadn't found anything, your argument would've been that there is no such thing and that the names were ridiculous so it proved something. since you've found it on some shady website, your argument is that it's a proof against me; catch 22!!
thanks I guess, for that research and proving that the inventor role exists, so do these devices!
ps: in my previous post i got mixed up and there is a sentence from me about pcm that didn't get coloured in red cause i must ve miss selected all my quotes at some point when i added the colour.

that link only mentions 2 devices as well so I understand where you got the idea of 2 devices from but as I understand it there are no standard names for the devices and like I said before saf is too good a mod to use some copied name from a simple "guidebook". In other words your claim sounds extremely false and in addition to all the evidence that I have seen thus far you are most likely scum.

i just thought tha shield was really playing weird all game and now that pcm is playing really weird... and just thought of a last scenario: pcm is santa claws the survivor and doesn't want to claim... in that case, is it really a loss for town? not really but it would be a chance lost to kill a mafia. based on my assumptions, pcm should be one of the mafias though..
for me chap, leitz and medefe are cleared, only leaves me with 4... so pcm can only be mafia. i don't care lynching epi, trini, pcm or dazza first. no other combo that these 4 fits based on what I know.

If we lynch PCM and he is mafia, MoB is most likely mafia as well. Don't you agree?

possibly; my problem is why would trini say that i got role blocked last night. that makes me see him as scummy, unless he missinterpretated something in the night actions, and maybe they don't have just a role blocker...

fastposted and going to bed, 3am here

I had overlooked that, thank you!!!

According to Trini, you should have been roleblocked.

Since you claim you were not, if PCM is mafia non-godfather, MoB is mafia, which makes Trini town and forces us to conclude you are also mafia.

This means we'd have:
PCM
MoB
Betiko
Epitaph/Chap/Leitz/Dazza (and Dazza is probably cleared because he did not hammer Epitaph when he was given the chance)

I like Rodion's analysis. Overall I agree with his method and plan moving forward. we have to kill mafia today and I am also convinced that PCM is mafia. The information from his death may very well be enough to clear me and we have to decide on one person to succeed as town. Therefore Unvote, Vote pancakemix

yes, i had been told what the devices were for, and yes, I could've applied them to myself, no restrictions in that sense were given. I guess that's why saf gave them commonly used invention names, you seem to say that in some cases you are given an invention with an unknown use. at the very first of day 1 I thought there was weird a link with shieldgenerator7 or something, as his name was really close to one of my devices, but linking stuff with usernames and not characters seemed silly after thinking about it! Here is my famous quote from day 1:

...

Is this common? I thought you couldn't use your powers on yourself?

It depends on the role. Docs can not usually protect themselves. Which, kind of make sense if you think about practically.

Cops don't investigate themselves, also makes sense.

Busdrivers can switch themselves.

I would say that with the flavor of the invention abilities, it makes sense that he would be able to use them on himself. However, most healing/saving abilities can't be used on yourself, but if is in the form of a shield or forcefield, it makes sense.

Can PCM report or be replaced?
Can MeDeFe claim please? You didn't even respond to asking you to be claimed. What the crap?

wait wait... cops can't investigate themselves? didn't jim say he investigated himself on night 1? sorry I think there is a whole chapter I am going to ask to be repeated about that from mob and trini... cause no one said anything to jimfin when he said he used the first investigation on himself to see if he was a sane cop or not... I think this whole thing can be quite interesting to look back on.

actually jim didn't say this - I said that I switched jim with Swifte - so it turned out that he investigated himself. Cops can investigate themselves but it doesn't really make sense to since they know they are town...lol. I have actually seen a game where a cop investigated himself N1 to determine whether he was insane or not.l

[Leitz]

I'll just quote (page 97) my list of who I believe is mafia as that should be enough:

Taking everything in account I believe dazza fake-claimed so that would mean Epitaph is cleared. So my scum list:

1. MoB
2. PCM
3. betiko
4. dazza

I agree with most of that list. Number 4 is wrong though buddy.

Is this all because I never believed your claim to begin with?

No, it's just a gut feeling. You're the one who I'm least sure about but for now you're still the most suitable person for the 4th spot. Like the rest I will put my vote on one the 4 on my mafia list. At least 1 mafia must die today so unvote, vote PCM.

[Rodion]

Unvote PCM just to make sure he's not speedlynched.

Anyway, I wanted to elaborate on 3 scenarios: PCM godfather, PCM roleblocker, PCM goon.

I'm doing them right now, but I'd rather not post them before we last hear from PCM. We need him to post his claim/defense.

[trinicardinal]

Unvote PCM just to make sure he's not speedlynched.

Anyway, I wanted to elaborate on 3 scenarios: PCM godfather, PCM roleblocker, PCM goon.

I'm doing them right now, but I'd rather not post them before we last hear from PCM. We need him to post his claim/defense.

If that's what you want to do fine - Unvote but I suspect PCM is not going to be very cooperative considering that his last post was so verbiose:

Vote MeDeFe

lol

[MeDeFe]

If that's what you want to do fine - Unvote but I suspect PCM is not going to be very cooperative considering that his last post was so verbiose:

Vote MeDeFe

lol

Yeah, that was a bit brief. I would've voted for PCM now if the ball hadn't started rolling and pcm still hadn't made any substantial contributions.

In any case, unvote, MoB is not going to get lynched today, maybe tomorrow.

[safariguy5]

Vote Count

Mob(1)- dazza
Epitaph(2)-betiko, MoB,
betiko(1)- epitaph
MeDeFe(1)- PCM
PCM(2)- chap, leitz


With 10 alive, it takes 6 to lynch.

Day ends midnight March 1st PST. If a lynch is not reached by then, a no lynch will be declared.

[pancakemix]

I've said enough.

Vote MeDeFe

lol

I said stop it.

[Rodion]

PCM flips roleblocker

What we know:

Medefe is cleared as Jack.
MoB's explanation on why PCM was the cop's N1 innocent is proven false, so MoB is the 2nd mafia.
Trini is cleared as Skeletal Reindeer.

We then have another conclusion that is not as solid as the previous ones:
Betiko is probably the 3rd mafia (I'm assuming Betiko should have been roleblocked when Trini swapped Jim and Betiko on N3).

What we should do:

Epitaph protects Trini.
Trini swaps me with one of the following: MoB, Betiko, Epitaph, Leitz, Chap, Dazza, Medefe (some choices are better than others, but I don’t want to talk too much about it so mafia can’t predict what you’ll do).
If Betiko truly is an inventor and has other powers, do not use them! The reason for that is you don’t know who Trini is swapping me with and you don’t want to get me accidentally roleblocked/killed.

If I die:
Do not cast a single vote on D5 before everything is thoroughly discussed. If you want to tally opinions on who should be lynched, use FOS instead. At the end of the Day, I’ll likely suggest MoB is killed.
Town should give more weight to Medefe’s and Trini’s opinions.
If Betiko ends up being suspected as the 3rd mafia (which is probable, but not certain), I’d suggest you to consider Dazza cleared. In this case, 4th mafia is either Epitaph, Chap or Leitz.

PCM flips goon

What we know:

Medefe is cleared as Jack.
MoB's explanation on why PCM was the cop's N1 innocent is proven false, so MoB is the 2nd mafia.
Trini is cleared as Skeletal Reindeer.

We then have another conclusion that is not as solid as the previous ones:
Betiko is probably the 3rd mafia (I'm assuming Betiko should have been roleblocked when Trini swapped Jim and Betiko on N3).

What we should do:

Since the roleblocker is still alive, I’ll need 2 layers of protection (since one of them can be roleblocked), so Epitaph protects me and Trini swaps me (list of possible candidates is the same as the one in case PCM flips roleblocker, with one exception: do not swap me with MoB).
If Betiko truly is an inventor and has other powers, he can kill or roleblock MoB (killing is the better option).

If I die:

If the scene suggests that I was killed accidentally (like Swifte), bad luck for us. If it doesn’t, the most likely explanation is that Trini was roleblocked and Epitaph lied about being a (backup) doctor. In that case, MoB is 2nd mafia, Epitaph is 3rd mafia. Chap is cleared. 4th mafia is Betiko, Leitz or Dazza.
Do not cast a single vote on D5 before everything is thoroughly discussed. If you want to tally opinions on who should be lynched, use FOS instead. At the end of the Day, I’ll likely suggest MoB is killed.
Town should give more weight to Medefe’s and Trini’s opinions.
If Betiko ends up being suspected as the 3rd mafia (which is probable, but not certain), I’d suggest you to consider Dazza cleared. In this case, 4th mafia is either Epitaph, Chap or Leitz.

PCM flips godfather

What we know:

Medefe is cleared as Jack.

What we should do:

Trini swaps me with one of the following: MoB, Betiko, Epitaph, Leitz, Chap, Dazza, Medefe (some choices are better than others, but I don’t want to talk too much about it so mafia can’t predict what you’ll do).

MoB swaps me with one of the following: Trini, Betiko, Epitaph, Leitz, Chap, Dazza, Medefe (some choices are better than others, but I don’t want to talk too much about it so mafia can’t predict what you’ll do).

Epitaph protects me (I’ll need 2 layers of protection because the roleblocker is still alive).
If Betiko truly is an inventor and has other powers, he can kill or roleblock Epitaph (killing is the better option).

If I die:

If the scene suggests that I was killed accidentally (like Swifte), bad luck for us. If it doesn’t, the most likely explanation is that our busdriver (be it Trini or MoB) was roleblocked and Epitaph lied about being a (backup) doctor. In that case, Epitaph is 2nd mafia and Chap is cleared. 3rd mafia is either Trini or MoB and 4th mafia is either Betiko, Leitz or Dazza. If you end up thinking MoB is the 3rd mafia, Betiko is probably the 4th.

Do not cast a single vote on D5 before everything is thoroughly discussed. If you want to tally opinions on who should be lynched, use FOS instead.
Town should give more weight to Medefe’s opinions.

@everyone: is there any concern to the aforementioned plan? Anything I might have overlooked? Speak now!

@Safari: sorry, but I have to ask this. PCM is not even trying to defend himself. Is there any chance you can modkill him (without ending the day) for purposefully playing against his own winning condition (throwing the game)?

[chapcrap]

A scenario where PCM is not mafia?

[safariguy5]

Modkills will only be done as a last resort or when a major rule violation has occurred. I see no grounds for modkills as of yet.

[Rodion]

A scenario where PCM is not mafia?

Are you asking for one?

Scenario 1: PCM flips Jack

Bad news: town needs to block mafia's NK or we lose.

Good news: assuming it is blocked, we have most of our work done. Medefe/Leitz/Trini are obviously liars. The 4th scum would be between Epitaph and Betiko.

Epitaph(5)-betiko, leitz, MoB, PCM, chap

If Epitaph was town, either Trini or Medefe would have hammered at this point and closed the game by roleblocking MoB and guaranteeing a mafia NK. This means that Epitaph can't be town, so the scum team if PCM flips Jack is Medefe, Leitz, Trini and Epitaph.

Come to think of it, if that is the case I don't think we'll be able to stop mafia's NK, unless Betiko did not disclose one of his inventor powers (he could prevent the loss by killing one of the 4 mafia).

[pancakemix]

@Safari: sorry, but I have to ask this. PCM is not even trying to defend himself. Is there any chance you can modkill him (without ending the day) for purposefully playing against his own winning condition (throwing the game)?

I am absolutely not throwing the game. Nothing I have said of have not said should indicate this and I'm shocked you'd actually suggest that I be modkilled.

Can I reiterate my disdain for planning out games the way you do while I'm at it?

[Rodion]

Are you a jester?

If you are not a jester, why aren't you arguing when everything indicates you will be lynched? This question applies whether you are town or mafia. I don't see you trying at all.

Do you want to claim Jack in order to support your Medefe vote? And even if you do, don't think it's "too little too late"?

[Rodion]

EBWOP

Are you a jester?

If you are not a jester, why aren't you arguing when everything indicates you will be lynched? This question applies whether you are town or mafia. I don't see you trying at all.

Do you want to claim Jack in order to support your Medefe vote? And even if you do, don't you think it's "too little, too late"?

[Leitz]

A scenario where PCM is not mafia?

Are you asking for one?

Scenario 1: PCM flips Jack

Bad news: town needs to block mafia's NK or we lose.

Good news: assuming it is blocked, we have most of our work done. Medefe/Leitz/Trini are obviously liars. The 4th scum would be between Epitaph and Betiko.

Epitaph(5)-betiko, leitz, MoB, PCM, chap

If Epitaph was town, either Trini or Medefe would have hammered at this point and closed the game by roleblocking MoB and guaranteeing a mafia NK. This means that Epitaph can't be town, so the scum team if PCM flips Jack is Medefe, Leitz, Trini and Epitaph.

Come to think of it, if that is the case I don't think we'll be able to stop mafia's NK, unless Betiko did not disclose one of his inventor powers (he could prevent the loss by killing one of the 4 mafia).

I can guarantee that that situation will never occur. And what the hell is wrong with PCM???

[trinicardinal]

A scenario where PCM is not mafia?

Are you asking for one?

Scenario 1: PCM flips Jack

Bad news: town needs to block mafia's NK or we lose.

Good news: assuming it is blocked, we have most of our work done. Medefe/Leitz/Trini are obviously liars. The 4th scum would be between Epitaph and Betiko.

Epitaph(5)-betiko, leitz, MoB, PCM, chap

If Epitaph was town, either Trini or Medefe would have hammered at this point and closed the game by roleblocking MoB and guaranteeing a mafia NK. This means that Epitaph can't be town, so the scum team if PCM flips Jack is Medefe, Leitz, Trini and Epitaph.

Come to think of it, if that is the case I don't think we'll be able to stop mafia's NK, unless Betiko did not disclose one of his inventor powers (he could prevent the loss by killing one of the 4 mafia).

I can guarantee that that situation will never occur. And what the hell is wrong with PCM???

If the other posts weren't clear enough that PCM isn't jack I'd say that's even clearer. I don't know about you folks but I'd say PCM has had his opportunities and has refused to take advantage of them. Now that he has spoken I'll put back my vote

Vote pancakemix

[chapcrap]

@Safari: sorry, but I have to ask this. PCM is not even trying to defend himself. Is there any chance you can modkill him (without ending the day) for purposefully playing against his own winning condition (throwing the game)?

I am absolutely not throwing the game. Nothing I have said of have not said should indicate this and I'm shocked you'd actually suggest that I be modkilled.

Can I reiterate my disdain for planning out games the way you do while I'm at it?

Absolutely no fight.

This from page 99:

I could replace PCM I guess but that'd be weird because he replaced me and I don't wanna have to reread the thread.

I'm far too invested in this one now (which, I know, you wouldn't guess from my activity of late).

Rodion, there is no need for me to claim. The only reason you'd need me to is because there wasn't enough info. There's plenty of info. I also have good reasons otherwise not to.

I really hate how I explained myself and trini and MeDeFe wrote me off as scum without response. Are you going to come to a determination on the counterclaims or are you going to stand there and point fingers at others?

So invested that you can't claim when about to be lynched and can't even try? Obviously he just wanted to stick around because the odds were so good that the mafia would win and he is mafia. Because he definitely hasn't invested anything since then. Here are his posts in between then and now.

Time is an issue now, so PCM and Medefe should claim without further delay.

I've already explained this. I'm not going to again.

Vote MeDeFe

I've said enough.

Vote MeDeFe

lol

I said stop it.