Fire and Ice Mafia! (2/12) GAME OVER!! ~ TOWN WINS!! ~

[everywhere116]

essentially, humans see logic in a logical argument. Its how mafia need to play to win. They either have to go the whole game under the radar which is near impossible

This is also what jgordon tried to do up until I started to pay attention to him? His first three posts are pages apart, all say that he's waiting for someone to slip before he reveals his thoughts. Then he jokes with edocsil, I joke with him, and here we are.

or bend and twist things to look like logical arguments, because knowing they themselves are mafia, they know that everything they say will be pointing in the wrong direction (unless theres a 3rd party and they rat them out).

Indeed, which is why we must put every case under logical scrutiny to detect errors.

Please list the classic scumtells.

Insisting that you are innocent when no one asked, overreacting to a slight joke that you are scum, and insisting that someone who brings a case against you must be scum.

Right now I do not see anything except a bit of an over reaction. I chose my side of the cases, and even if I am incorrect in the case I pick, it does not make it my permanent opinion. Therefore, if I see something against jgordon that makes me firmly believe he is scum, I will vote for him and pressure him even past a claim if its that strong of an opinion.

Very well. At least you have a rational outlook on the game.

I'm going to bed now. Tomorrow is an early day for me. I have presented my case, I leave it for the jury. I'll check this thread again when I get back home from my daytime obligations tomorrow.

[ghostly447]

essentially, humans see logic in a logical argument. Its how mafia need to play to win. They either have to go the whole game under the radar which is near impossible

This is also what jgordon tried to do up until I started to pay attention to him? His first three posts are pages apart, all say that he's waiting for someone to slip before he reveals his thoughts. Then he jokes with edocsil, I joke with him, and here we are.

or bend and twist things to look like logical arguments, because knowing they themselves are mafia, they know that everything they say will be pointing in the wrong direction (unless theres a 3rd party and they rat them out).

Indeed, which is why we must put every case under logical scrutiny to detect errors.

Please list the classic scumtells.

Insisting that you are innocent when no one asked, overreacting to a slight joke that you are scum, and insisting that someone who brings a case against you must be scum.

Right now I do not see anything except a bit of an over reaction. I chose my side of the cases, and even if I am incorrect in the case I pick, it does not make it my permanent opinion. Therefore, if I see something against jgordon that makes me firmly believe he is scum, I will vote for him and pressure him even past a claim if its that strong of an opinion.

Very well. At least you have a rational outlook on the game.

I'm going to bed now. Tomorrow is an early day for me. I have presented my case, I leave it for the jury. I'll check this thread again when I get back home from my daytime obligations tomorrow.

Well addressed. The only thing I have to add before also turning in is that you happen to skip the fact that I too have been relatively inactive. But I will discuss that tomorrow.

[edocsil]

Unvote Vote JG , inn addition to the presented case, Blatant OMGUS and buddying.

[MoB Deadly]

Day 1 - Vote Count 6


crazymilkshake5 -
(3) edocsil - spurgistan, mc05025, Leehar
(2) everywhere116 - jgordon1111, ghostly447
ghostly447 -
(3) jgordon1111 - everywhere116, shieldgenerator7, edocsil
(1) Leehar -
mc05025 -
New Guy1 -
shieldgenerator7 -
(1) Some7hingCLEVER - New Guy1
spurgistan -
Victor Sullivan -

No Lynch -


With 12 players alive, it takes 7 votes to Lynch or No Lynch. Deadline Thursday 4PM EST.

[jgordon1111]

If you are saying I was trying to buddy up to you Edoc again you have mistaken me, I made a statement that I was joking about how high you are on the hit list, and I said I hadnt voted for you(yet) because you hadnt slipped. That is not buddying up to me. That I was waiting for someone to slip several times as my post is just what I meant.

Now lets get to it, Everywhere says to me you are not a mage(why if he was town would he point this out to everyone) And I respond with a basic rebuttal of dont try to read into what I am saying.

So I ask what have I said that is a scum tell. Nothing that I know of.

Next point everywhere then says I got emotional with my response, LOL that was not an emotional response from me at all.

Next point everywhere then says, I am insisting I am innocent when no one has said I am guilty?

The only statement I have made that stands out in my mind even remotley close is one, (I have nothing to hide this game)Which is absolutley true.

So in light of this is why I put my vote on everywhere. He has already let slip that he thinks I am town by the mage statement then to continue to push it says to me he is therefore scum.

[edocsil]

Everywhere's case is going over your head, and that is why it is garnering votes. You don't understand it therefor you cannot defend against it properly.

[jgordon1111]

It must be,let the voting continue then lol

[Leehar]

Vote jgordon
Yup, It seemed okay in Rated M, but now it really is BFSPP to everywhere. You were inactive, and you were submarining, and then even though I haven't read all of everywhere's case and rebuttals, it seemed logical just on the base level that it has to be you this time thats scummy jg

[Some7hingCLEVER]

hey finally back at school and do some digging lol ill be more active during the week

[ghostly447]

I dont see how anyone is going against jgordon right now. I just see everywheres case being cut into shreds before his eyes. Jgordon disproved every point, and if need be I will go behind and fill in the logic behind his case. I am CONVINCED that everywhere is using a very weak case to try to get a townie lynched. Doesnt anyone else see it?

[jgordon1111]

thanks for the backing ghost I believe you are the only one who caught the hints out of all of the sleuths here. I am the town doctor,each night I protect one person. well played everywhere

[ghostly447]

I will remain voted on everywhere then. If, in 24 hours, no one else has counterclaimed doctor, then I believe it will be safe to assume that everywhere is going to get lynched.

[Leehar]

Isn't claiming doctor a completely ridiculous idea on day 1? It's the only power role we have, how can you expose yourself so early? It's almost like we should still lynch you on general principle, specially as you're on l-5

From what I understand it's not even good to counter-claim that right now because you're basically giving yourself up just to get scum killed

[MoB Deadly]

Day 1 - Vote Count 7


crazymilkshake5 -
(3) edocsil - spurgistan, mc05025
(2) everywhere116 - jgordon1111, ghostly447
ghostly447 -
(4, L-3) jgordon1111 - everywhere116, shieldgenerator7, edocsil, Leehar
(1) Leehar -
mc05025 -
New Guy1 -
shieldgenerator7 -
(1) Some7hingCLEVER - New Guy1
spurgistan -
Victor Sullivan -

No Lynch -


With 12 players alive, it takes 7 votes to Lynch or No Lynch. Deadline Thursday 4PM EST.

[edocsil]

Isn't claiming doctor a completely ridiculous idea on day 1? It's the only power role we have, how can you expose yourself so early? It's almost like we should still lynch you on general principle, specially as you're on l-5

From what I understand it's not even good to counter-claim that right now because you're basically giving yourself up just to get scum killed

Pretty much. If he is the Doc he should have claimed VT. Scum would have likely killed him at night anyhow. If he lives now its going to be all WIFOMy with what the scum factions decide the other faction is going to do.

[ghostly447]

Isn't claiming doctor a completely ridiculous idea on day 1? It's the only power role we have, how can you expose yourself so early? It's almost like we should still lynch you on general principle, specially as you're on l-5

From what I understand it's not even good to counter-claim that right now because you're basically giving yourself up just to get scum killed

Pretty much. If he is the Doc he should have claimed VT. Scum would have likely killed him at night anyhow. If he lives now its going to be all WIFOMy with what the scum factions decide the other faction is going to do.

Unless no one dies. Remember if fire and ice both hit nothing happens.

[jgordon1111]

No one read page 1 of this game, I think it pretty much described all the power roles. And once again I was going to be forced to claim my role on shady evidence to say the least. I have no back up,no protection,no vig,no role blocker.

Hint one everywhere says you are no mage after he figures out I am town,my response dont read into what I have said. Yes actually I am.

hint 2 I have nothing to hide in this game. which is true if I was scum as everywhere had already stated I wasnt, I then have nothing to hide as the only power role for town.

Edoc and you again contradict yourself from saying Town never lies. Now its convienient for you to say I should have claimed VT.

Simple I was going to be forced to claim again and I played by the game etiquette,as has been pointed out to me I should always do to make the game go better.

I had already laid out the only defence I could pointing to the person I believed was scum,and was told it went over my head. I am not good at lying so I had one option play by the rules.

If anyone has a better Idea of what I should have done considering the circumstances,by all means please let me know.

If I talk I get voted for no substance,If I dont talk I get voted. Its rather difficult to understand which ground I stand on.

I still say everywhere is scum

[shieldgenerator7]

Well a doc fakeclaim would be a good claim for mafia because
1) to be counterclaimed the real doc will have to claim, thus giving the mafia the night advantage
2) if the real doc doesn't claim, town will have to take his claim at face value and trust him

So if you are mafia this is a pretty good fakeclaim. BUt if you're not, I'm inclined to vote on the everywhere wagon because he did present (and pursue) the case against you, but for no reason other than that.

I find your arguments very convincing, but then again I'm fairly gullible and will find most arguments convincing. I'm going to wait and see how it turns out before I change my vote.

-SG7 ( )

[jgordon1111]

well SG7, its pretty much like this,its endgame for town no protection for them now. I was looking for someone to step forward,ghostly did finally but it was to late,if he had started taking heat and made it thru to n1 I would have protected him. But moot point scum knows who I am, so even not being lynched its game over for town no power roles.

[shieldgenerator7]

well SG7, its pretty much like this,its endgame for town no protection for them now. I was looking for someone to step forward,ghostly did finally but it was to late,if he had started taking heat and made it thru to n1 I would have protected him. But moot point scum knows who I am, so even not being lynched its game over for town no power roles.

it does seem that way, jgordon. But there is hope. I guess if both mafia target you you'll live, but the mafia might have more use for you besides just killing you. I mean, not only can you potentially protect town, you might also protect one of the mafia from being killed. Who knows? The mafia might find you valuable and not kill you afterall. I don't think they can win together, so one or the other has to win right? And you might actually help them rather than hinder them. I'm guessing you'll survive until endgame or until one faction is completely destroyed. All hope is not lost.

-SG7 ( )

[edocsil]

Edoc and you again contradict yourself from saying Town never lies. Now its convienient for you to say I should have claimed VT.

Every rule has an exception. This might have been one, but telling the truth was an option too.

Simple I was going to be forced to claim again and I played by the game etiquette,as has been pointed out to me I should always do to make the game go better.

Perhaps, but you don't know that. Perhaps others would have believed your defense. Game etiquette it to claim at L-1 or 2.

If anyone has a better Idea of what I should have done considering the circumstances,by all means please let me know.

Wait to claim Power roles as late as possible, especially if they are confirmed to be ingame. Only a fool would hang the claimed town doc in this scenario, so a L-1 claim wouldn't have put you in any danger.

I still say everywhere is scum.

Because he forced you to a D1 claim? I have mentioned that most of your cases are OMGUS, this has got to change.

[everywhere116]

I dont see how anyone is going against jgordon right now. I just see everywheres case being cut into shreds before his eyes. Jgordon disproved every point, and if need be I will go behind and fill in the logic behind his case. I am CONVINCED that everywhere is using a very weak case to try to get a townie lynched. Doesnt anyone else see it?

I find it weird that he's torn my case into shreds considering that he doesn't seem to understand what my case is. For instance, he keeps insisting that I confirmed that he was a townie in the quote "You are Definitely Not A Mage", which he would know was false if he had bothered to click the link or read any of my posts afterwards. (The link leads to the TVTropes page "Definitely Not a Villian", which is the trope that describes a character that masquerades as X by repeating that he is X and saying that he is X without actually doing anything that X would do.)

Now, as for the doctor claim, I don't really buy it that much. Not that lynching a claimed doctor is something that I take lightly, but he could be claiming it because he knows it's the only thing that would save him from being lynched, or it's an attempt to get the real doctor to come out (although I doubt he thinks that far ahead). I'm not quite sure the doctor would even want to reveal himself on day 1 simply for the sake of disproving an almost doomed fakeclaim. Still, he could be the doctor and he did all those things because he's an idiot. I don't know. I'll keep my vote on him, but I urge anyone who hasn't already voted for him to not vote for him yet until the doctor decides to claim, jgordon says something stupid and/or incriminating, or the deadline comes crashing down on us. We still have two days left.

[jgordon1111]

Thank you Edoc for taking the time to explain to me what I am missing.

everywhere I am not an idiot, I thought every bit of this out from the begining, the odds that i would be forced to claim no matter what early and I estimated it at about 95%.

Then I thought how best to keep from submarining and getting hit that way.
or how not to overatract attention by talking to much.

Best scenario was just to say waitning for someone to slip and let everyone know I was reading everyday, Well it didnt work either.

But I got called out and I defended myself as best I could.

I also knew if I had to claim at all, I mights as well not wait for L2 by then to much time would have passed and we would be at the deadline most likely.

And its an omgus to be sure everywhere but I had no one else to call out it might as well be you

[ghostly447]

I dont see how anyone is going against jgordon right now. I just see everywheres case being cut into shreds before his eyes. Jgordon disproved every point, and if need be I will go behind and fill in the logic behind his case. I am CONVINCED that everywhere is using a very weak case to try to get a townie lynched. Doesnt anyone else see it?

I find it weird that he's torn my case into shreds considering that he doesn't seem to understand what my case is. For instance, he keeps insisting that I confirmed that he was a townie in the quote "You are Definitely Not A Mage", which he would know was false if he had bothered to click the link or read any of my posts afterwards. (The link leads to the TVTropes page "Definitely Not a Villian", which is the trope that describes a character that masquerades as X by repeating that he is X and saying that he is X without actually doing anything that X would do.)

Now, as for the doctor claim, I don't really buy it that much. Not that lynching a claimed doctor is something that I take lightly, but he could be claiming it because he knows it's the only thing that would save him from being lynched, or it's an attempt to get the real doctor to come out (although I doubt he thinks that far ahead). I'm not quite sure the doctor would even want to reveal himself on day 1 simply for the sake of disproving an almost doomed fakeclaim. Still, he could be the doctor and he did all those things because he's an idiot. I don't know. I'll keep my vote on him, but I urge anyone who hasn't already voted for him to not vote for him yet until the doctor decides to claim, jgordon says something stupid and/or incriminating, or the deadline comes crashing down on us. We still have two days left.

So your response to his fluff is to..Write a bunch of fluff and insist that the "Real doctor" is on his way? And how was he supposed to claim anything other than that anyways? If he said VT, you would have said "He is okay to lynch due to the fact he is dispensable". You forced the doctor to claim on Day 1 under very weak evidence. Therefore, my vote remains and will remain until you are lynched, or the day is over. I dont know why you arent convinced that he is actually the doctor. He was dropping hints all over the place, and keeping his head somewhat tucked away to the point that only you would call him out and force him to claim with how he flipped out, when really he didnt, and other gibberish.

[ghostly447]

I dont see how anyone is going against jgordon right now. I just see everywheres case being cut into shreds before his eyes. Jgordon disproved every point, and if need be I will go behind and fill in the logic behind his case. I am CONVINCED that everywhere is using a very weak case to try to get a townie lynched. Doesnt anyone else see it?

I find it weird that he's torn my case into shreds considering that he doesn't seem to understand what my case is. For instance, he keeps insisting that I confirmed that he was a townie in the quote "You are Definitely Not A Mage", which he would know was false if he had bothered to click the link or read any of my posts afterwards. (The link leads to the TVTropes page "Definitely Not a Villian", which is the trope that describes a character that masquerades as X by repeating that he is X and saying that he is X without actually doing anything that X would do.)

Now, as for the doctor claim, I don't really buy it that much. Not that lynching a claimed doctor is something that I take lightly, but he could be claiming it because he knows it's the only thing that would save him from being lynched, or it's an attempt to get the real doctor to come out (although I doubt he thinks that far ahead). I'm not quite sure the doctor would even want to reveal himself on day 1 simply for the sake of disproving an almost doomed fakeclaim. Still, he could be the doctor and he did all those things because he's an idiot. I don't know. I'll keep my vote on him, but I urge anyone who hasn't already voted for him to not vote for him yet until the doctor decides to claim, jgordon says something stupid and/or incriminating, or the deadline comes crashing down on us. We still have two days left.

So your response to his fluff is to..Write a bunch of fluff and insist that the "Real doctor" is on his way? And how was he supposed to claim anything other than that anyways? If he said VT, you would have said "He is okay to lynch due to the fact he is dispensable". You forced the doctor to claim on Day 1 under very weak evidence. Therefore, my vote remains and will remain until you are lynched, or the day is over. I dont know why you arent convinced that he is actually the doctor. He was dropping hints all over the place, and keeping his head somewhat tucked away to the point that only you would call him out and force him to claim with how he flipped out, when really he didnt, and other gibberish.

EBWOP. Response to his claim