[Exp] CYOC! #4 Endgame! Town wins, you filthy animals

[pancakemix]

Obligatory confirm.

An aside: I'm kind of limited in my abilities both to access the internet and to type messages at this juncture. Both should be fixed in the coming days. That, and I'm 4 beers deep.

So! I'm expecting this game to be weird as shit, but it's CYOC. See my sig. I'm responding as I go, so if I'm repeating something, I'm leaving it for posterity.

quote="dakky21"]Actually I think NPC's are non playing characters, so they were killed probably by some other NPC's. It doesn't have to mean these were a faction kills or that there is someone who can kill only NPC's. Not saying it's impossible, just improbable.[/quote]

REEAALLYY!?!!

Stop reading into the scene. It doesn't mean anything. It's called a joke.

Dakky was scum in 2/3 of the last games that i was involved with but thats not really the point.
Of course its the jokevote stage so im far from certain he is scum but that comment was strange,he seemed to be trying to downplay the scene "subtly" and it seemed like enough reason to give him a push and see how he reacts.
His reaction doesnt really do much for me and id consider him for a claim later but theres lots of time here.
Vote Pancakemix
Can we trust you pancake?

Again, see sig.

Dakky was scum in 2/3 of the last games that i was involved with but thats not really the point.
Of course its the jokevote stage so im far from certain he is scum but that comment was strange,he seemed to be trying to downplay the scene "subtly" and it seemed like enough reason to give him a push and see how he reacts.
His reaction doesnt really do much for me and id consider him for a claim later but theres lots of time here.

What about this reaction... what's the chance to be mafia in 3 out of 4 games... AND I can prove I am town.

I hate when plauers do this. Don't state you are town and can prove it. Fight accusations. The case on you is small. Easily defended. You have defended much of it already. Stating you can prove yourself town isn't something players should be impatient to do before you even accrue votes. It is something you do when you have not been able to defend yourself. *walks off in a huff*

^^This. Gambler's fallacy and what have you. If you feel the need to argue at three pages in, it only makes it seem more likely that you have something to hide...

You read it wrong, I am not accusing you or saying I will kill you.
You're making the talk, while other people may stick to your case or not... so in order to make my own case, you're helping by pushing me.

Uh... what?

Vote Marashu

No-one should enjoy playing mafia, thats not the point. The sooner he is out of the game, the sooner the misery can envelope us all.

I'm sure there's a Lovecraft quote about hopelessness that applies here but I can't find one.

Looks like dakky's claiming something powerful but not that powerful? Probably factual but is also trying to play WIFOM and I don't like where it's going...

Stupid!! You are either lying or telling the truth.

No shit Sherlock!

This, kids, is not how you earn points.

As for a LAL policy, I don't know if I agree, especially n a case where it's not clear dakky has even lied...

Vote Marashu

No-one should enjoy playing mafia, thats not the point. The sooner he is out of the game, the sooner the misery can envelope us all.

He's also gone AWOL since this, despite being perma online over the last few days.

Sorry, forgot to turn the computer off yesterday.

Dakky's doing what dakky does, but I'm not sure I like the attention that's staying on him. Also not sure I agree with the read of him softclaiming the vig - it sounds more like he decided to roll with Wing's read of his softclaim, then tries to backpedal by saying his role isn't that useful. Shouldn't everyone's plan right now be to kill mafia?

Right now, I'm liking IB, I'm liking strike, and I'm liking Streaker. Strange as this sounds, I'm not sure I like Wing's attempt to steer conversation away from dakky - feels more like he's trying to end discussion early instead of letting it peter away. I think watching how people react to something and how long they focus on it can be pretty telling, and why not let dakky be that thing? Instead of cutting discussion on it, look at people's reactions to it. I'm not sure if this is Wing being manipulative, or Wing being well-meaning. I always have a hard time reading Wing D1. Not liking pcm's absence, and I didn't even realize mets was in this game.

I'm not liking benga - seems to be joking around just to fit in, and is also ignoring people's reactions to what's going on with dakky. Town would be paying attention and "making lists", but scum wouldn't need to. Of anyone, I'd say he's my top pick for mafia right now.

Vote Benga

Ehh, there really isn't much to talk about with dakky. It's too much the commonplace lynch where someone misspeaks and doesn't' get to play over it. Likewise with benga: too little happening to make much note of his actions.

Geez, I'm really glad it's not like the old days where we were all frantic or else I'd be crucified for having a life outside of this.

As strike says, it would be patently obvious to anyone involved that if scum have a redirector, and they knew dakky was a vig, that would be good for them. So why even bother pointing it out? I know that when I play as scum, I often feel an urge to speculate about scum action to counter-signal strongly that I'm not one of them. And also, why is he so worried about someone claiming he's giving scum ideas? That sort of defensiveness in advance comes off as scummy to me.

Probably because dakky said it as well. And really, he's right: in CYOC you're more likely to have a ridiculous role and therefore be excited by it. I think he's just understandable incensed by the notion that we shouldn't speak because the improbable is being taken as gospel.

What follows Met's really good post is bullshit. Guise plz.

So as far as D1s go this is fairly typical. Nobody seems to know if it's still time to be silly or not but no one seems particularly scummy either. Mets looks good right now but I expect good posts from him so take that with a grain of salt. I'm also liking Endgae as well and have no context for him so that bodes well. Dakky's acting ridiculous but it seems like he just acts ridiculous. Tim needs to pay more attention. Where is virus...?

...not that I have much room to talk. Sorry for the absence, but I had to go to the bar just to post and I literally don't have a spacebar. As I said, issues should be solved in a few days so bear with me for a bit.

[madmitch]

Nice to hear from you PCM, your post was insightful I also agree with you about Mets post that is why I did not unvote him yet. Dakky is just being Dakky , I played with him in a few games and he can get under your skin , but I also believed he soft claimed by mistake and wants to back paddle and start again.

[Streaker]

somedays you are a real pain in the ass Dakky

Maybe, but you played all games since ever, and I remember there was a Jester in one of them, or it was discussed about it, but you AFAIK you still held your own point... never mind now, this is a different game but still you're sticking to one theory and not saying anything about other theories.

There's not been a jester in a game on CC since months, if not years. Talked about, perhaps. Why do you continue bringing this up?

You complain about him sticking to theories, how about you sticking to making a case on mitch every single game?

Streaker. Facts are irrelevant to my case against Mars. I built a nonsensical case against against a player who will give the case the respect it deserves, as he has done.

Mars, the more we discuss Dakky the more he will reveal. There is nothing left for him to say. Dakky isnt going to keep a charade of pretending to be vig whilst sk/mafia going for long, so not important D1. Hence, lets move on.

What do you mean with 'nonsensical' case on mars? You said yourself enough with the joke votes, but you were doing that just as well.

I read and understand now, good call

You read and understood a definition.....? Glad to hear it...

This adds so much to the conversation. It made me wonder what you have been up to this game, this is your biggest post:

show

It's great you call out to focus on scumhunting, but you make no effort in actually doing so. In fact, right after calling out we need to scumhunt, you mention joke voting. After that, you revisit the very thing you first said we need to disregard in order to focus on scumhunting.

Unvote, vote ptlowe

[WingCmdr Ginkapo]

You said yourself enough with the joke votes, but you were doing that just as well

.

Quote me please. You'll struggle as i didnt say that.

[virus90]

exam week but weekend now, so im here:)

hmmmkay. vote tim
tim doesnt post much content gets called out, and admits. then posts some more meaningless posts. Also basicly the only one who was jokevoting/posting all around, while the rest has voted/posted about dakky om some other serious opinions. say he will catch up by sunday, but so far i see enough reason to vote.

[Streaker]

You said yourself enough with the joke votes, but you were doing that just as well

.

Quote me please. You'll struggle as i didnt say that.

I have misread it, indeed. You were simply saying you could actually joke vote until however you wish. When reading, I interpreted it differently.

Doesn't change my opinion on pt.

[Endgame422]

OK folks time to liven this one up.
I am 3rd party survivor.
I am the mothman.
I can visit 1 player each night with a warning of "impending disaster" but im also told that some players may suffer "side effects"
My PM was intentionally ambigious about the "disaster" and about the "side effects"
The real story of mothman was that he was sighted 100s of times in the point pleasant area in West Virginia over several months in the late 1960s
Those who had close interactions reported splitting headaches,sickness relating to radiation poisoning(burns/discoloration of the skin and eyes)and hallucinations of the silver bridge crashing into the river.
In 1967 the silver bridge collapsed into the ohio river during rush hour traffic killing 46 people and causing immeasurable damages after which the reports of the mothman abruptly stopped.
I think its been set up so i can basically choose to help either town or scum as whichever faction i visit gains some kind of information.
I like my chances much better with town then against it.
Im thinking this works like rishs "visit" system from EotW where i have unique interactions depending on who i visit.
Im basing that logic off the fact that SOME players will suffer "side-effects" being the way it was written.
Also i think i was designed as a red herring 3rd party as my visits are supposed to appear in the night scenes,which leads me to believe scum is a small faction this game.
That further supports my decision to claim that im 3rd party as i can win alongside town and i like towns chances,especially if i just play like an extra townie.
Now who thinks we should lynch me?

[dakky21]

Ok endgame, your claim seems legit, but I don't believe a word you said since you don't have a single vote on yourself... Or I forgot how to count...

[Endgame422]

Ok endgame, your claim seems legit, but I don't believe a word you said since you don't have a single vote on yourself... Or I forgot how to count...

Claiming 3rd party under pressure=me lynched
Last time i was 3rd party and just pretended i was vt=me lynched
No way this crowd would have let me live if i claimed at L-2 or something like that.

[madmitch]

remember the movie about the moth man it is a bringer of doom, good movie with Richard Gere as the main star. anyway back to the game come see me I am not afraid of you

[dakky21]

Ok endgame, your claim seems legit, but I don't believe a word you said since you don't have a single vote on yourself... Or I forgot how to count...

Claiming 3rd party under pressure=me lynched
Last time i was 3rd party and just pretended i was vt=me lynched
No way this crowd would have let me live if i claimed at L-2 or something like that.

So you claim on L-8 after I soft claimed? This will get you lynched probably faster than claiming under pressure. Very strange play from you, never seen you do that before.

[WingCmdr Ginkapo]

You said yourself enough with the joke votes, but you were doing that just as well

.

Quote me please. You'll struggle as i didnt say that.

I have misread it, indeed. You were simply saying you could actually joke vote until however you wish. When reading, I interpreted it differently.

Doesn't change my opinion on pt.

No worries. I just like to have the record straight.

I can see your point about PT, he isnt following his own advice. Could be a case of giving solid town advice to appear town and then not following as not town.

About Dakky and Jester. There have been a few discussions in Mafia Discussions about creating games in which Mitch is given the jester role. There has been no such game and Mitch would not necessarily have read these discussions.

@Dakky - There are certain roles where it is sometimes beneficial to early claim D1 to avoid future confusion. These are roles which do not appear to be town aligned. These are 3rd Party and Miller.

If investigated a Miller will give a mafia alignment result when they are town aligned. This is a somewhat difficult situation to explain after being investigated, so it is often best to tell everyone at the start of the game.

Similarly with 3rd party survivor, it can help to claim at the start of the game that you are no threat to either faction and wish to remain left alone throughout the entire game. Reason being is that its too handy an excuse for mafia later in the game to avoid being lynched.

However, the problem is that we have no way of knowing if Endgame is telling the truth without lynching him. 3rd party survivor is often a fakeclaim for serial killer which is the problem. So the question is, do you believe his claim. If you do we can ignore him, if you dont then you should vote for him.

Personally, I would like to revist D2 after seeing what the side effects are, as to how much a threat Endgame poses to town.

[Endgame422]

If it helps im willing to claim my visits before i make them.
Im willing to be tracked,investigated,whatever as im fairly confident my actions will show up in the scenes anyways.

[dakky21]

However, the problem is that we have no way of knowing if Endgame is telling the truth without lynching him. 3rd party survivor is often a fakeclaim for serial killer which is the problem. So the question is, do you believe his claim. If you do we can ignore him, if you dont then you should vote for him.

Personally, I would like to revist D2 after seeing what the side effects are, as to how much a threat Endgame poses to town.

If I believe his claim WE can ignore him? Huh? Why does this sound like "Hey, we're mafia, so if you believe him, we ALL should ignore him" ??

And my soft claim can sound like Jester, but I'm not, be sure.

And I still don't get why end claimed if he is town. Too much talk and no mention of alignment. And you defending him if I believe him.... You two got a minus in my book...

[WingCmdr Ginkapo]

And I still don't get why end claimed if he is town.

Endgame hasnt claimed to be town. He has claimed to be 3rd party.

[madmitch]

I think he wanted to help town if he could which is fine with me

[HotShot53]

I've seen storr claim 3rd party before on day 1 with no pressure, and he usually is 3rd party when he does so, although sometimes a serial killer 3rd party.

It wouldn't seem to make much sense for town to claim as end just did, unless he is a powerful town role and wants to avoid getting killed by scum, but that seems not likely... I don't think a scum would have come out like that either, since now he has to show results from his actions, etc. Although if he is scum and that is his real action, he could have done it as a preemptive claim to gain town cred... but usually you'd just claim town in that case. So, the odds are he is telling the truth. I hope you come up with some good cases now though end, since as a claimed 3rd party you could be the default lynch if we can't find a likely scum to lynch.

[Iron Butterfly]

[quote="Endgame422"]OK folks time to liven this one up.
I am 3rd party survivor.
I am the mothman.
I can visit 1 player each night with a warning of "impending disaster" but im also told that some players may suffer "side effects"
My PM was intentionally ambigious about the "disaster" and about the "side effects"
The real story of mothman was that he was sighted 100s of times in the point pleasant area in West Virginia over several months in the late 1960s
Those who had close interactions reported splitting headaches,sickness relating to radiation poisoning(burns/discoloration of the skin and eyes)and hallucinations of the silver bridge crashing into the river.
In 1967 the silver bridge collapsed into the ohio river during rush hour traffic killing 46 people and causing immeasurable damages after which the reports of the mothman abruptly stopped.
I think its been set up so i can basically choose to help either town or scum as whichever faction i visit gains some kind of information.
I like my chances much better with town then against it.
Im thinking this works like rishs "visit" system from EotW where i have unique interactions depending on who i visit.
Im basing that logic off the fact that SOME players will suffer "side-effects" being the way it was written.
Also i think i was designed as a red herring 3rd party as my visits are supposed to appear in the night scenes,which leads me to believe scum is a small faction this game.
That further supports my decision to claim that im 3rd party as i can win alongside town and i like towns chances,especially if i just play like an extra townie.
Now who thinks we should lynch me?[/qu[/color]

A survivor is rarely if ever good for Town as they can turn at anytime, especially if things go bad. You are a liability at Endgame (No Pun) So tell us how you can help Town if you have no idea who Town or Mafia are? You also have no idea what your abilities do besides your speculation. You have no idea about the disaster or side effects.

You also win win if mafia wins, which is extremely important if we get to a tipping point in the game. Perhaps you are sincere in wanting to help Town but given the choice between winning as mafia and losing as Town I have no doubt you would choose to win if it meant screwing Town to do so.

vote Endgame

[pancakemix]

On mobile atm.

Claim is interesting and as much as I dislike the 3rd party claim I'm morbidly curious about these side effects.

Endgame: why claim now? Was it purely to "liven things up"?

[strike wolf]

I also tend to be suspicious of people who go for the lynch on third party early without challenging whether theyou might be town.

FOS IB

[TimWoodbury]

hmm its interesting that end has revealed with no pressure kinda bealive his claim as there was no pressure at all hadd it been say l2,l-1 then nah i wouldnt bealive it but now when there is nothing for him to have his back against a wall it kinda sounds legit

[Endgame422]

Pancake i claimed now because i know that this group of players would not have eased off if i claimed under pressure and my last game as 3rd party i lied and pretended to be town and got lynched at what turned out to be Lylo losing the game for both town and myself.
So the only option from my POV was to claim,explain myself as much as i can given my odd role and hope for the best.
To HS/IB lynching me is like pushing through a no lynch,zero chance of hitting scum.
You wont hit town admittedly if you go for me but you learn very little off of my lynch and give scum a free night basically.
Im more valuable to town as an honest opinion/vote that costs you nothing then as a corpse that costs you a day/night cycle.
FPd by tim

[Iron Butterfly]

Pancake i claimed now because i know that this group of players would not have eased off if i claimed under pressure and my last game as 3rd party i lied and pretended to be town and got lynched at what turned out to be Lylo losing the game for both town and myself.
So the only option from my POV was to claim,explain myself as much as i can given my odd role and hope for the best.
To HS/IB lynching me is like pushing through a no lynch,zero chance of hitting scum.
You wont hit town admittedly if you go for me but you learn very little off of my lynch and give scum a free night basically.
Im more valuable to town as an honest opinion/vote that costs you nothing then as a corpse that costs you a day/night cycle.
FPd by tim

From your point of view you did what was best for YOU. By your own mouth you have no idea how your abilities will effect players. You also have no idea who is who and "Disaster" does not bode well in my book. By you claiming with no pressure on DAY ONE the focus is now on you regardless. So you can lament the fact that the focus is on you and we wont hang scum, the upside is Town wont be lynched, your ability MAY not cause disaster and you wont betray Town if push comes to shove.

You MAY have had some credibility and reason to be saved if we had witnessed first hand what exactly it is that you do in how your ability works. Hell your disaster option could be mass death like strikes was last game. The more people that die the better chance you have to win. Again it is easy to say you are playing for Town when everyone is alive and it is day one, it is quite another when the game is on the line and you need to choose.Your saying "trust me" when you do not even know the extent of the damage you may cause when disaster strikes. It does sound like an ability to enhance your odds though.

You also seem to be of the opinion that your role means there may be less mafia. Why is that? It does seem to suggest that you tend to believe that it would be better for Town to have more players with your role?

[WingCmdr Ginkapo]

Vote IB

Lynching 3rd Party gives a free nightkill to mafia. IB knows this, yet is pursueing the easiest non-mafia lynch in the game.

Until Endgame claimed, all IB's posts had been attacking Dakky for his terrible play. These in themselves have no alignment indication.

However, taken all together, we have a player who is avoiding commiting to anything and trying to get the easiest targets lynched.

You MAY have had some credibility and reason to be saved if we had witnessed first hand what exactly it is that you do

Yes, so why not wait till D2 and we know what the side effects are? Because then who will be the easy target to lynch D1? My bad, scumhunting is too difficult for you clearly.

[Endgame422]

IB,Im not "lamenting" that the focus is on me. I knew exactly what i was doing when i claimed.
You say im saying "trust me" and you are unsure wether you should or not,how is that different from anyone else here?
Finally your saying that i could turn my back on town at lylo, a la storr in HP mafia,this is just either paranoia from you or you trying to push through this case by any means necessary because thats days away and you have no way of knowing my intentions.