[Beginner] Straight Mafia - TOWN WINS

[DJPatrick]

Streaker asks for thoughts on his diatribe to assign me to a lynching so here's mine...Streaker was the first to pick up on my intentionally mmisspelt "claim" so he and henchman decided to use this to kill another townie and leave me as easy picking...and yes, Soldier was already due for the rope so what better for him to do than let us lynch our own then pick off an easy target in the night and get me next day...good thinking on his/there part but don't get sucked in...Streaker lurks this Mafia site and knows th ropes...if Dom Streaker and henchmen get a strong townie they're in the home straight...[color=#FF0000]VOTE STREAKER [/color]and keep a close eye on those jumping on his bandwagon

[Streaker]

Streaker asks for thoughts on his diatribe to assign me to a lynching so here's mine...Streaker was the first to pick up on my intentionally mmisspelt "claim" so he and henchman decided to use this to kill another townie and leave me as easy picking...and yes, Soldier was already due for the rope so what better for him to do than let us lynch our own then pick off an easy target in the night and get me next day...good thinking on his/there part but don't get sucked in...Streaker lurks this Mafia site and knows th ropes...if Dom Streaker and henchmen get a strong townie they're in the home straight...[color=#FF0000]VOTE STREAKER [/color]and keep a close eye on those jumping on his bandwagon

Instead of OMGUS-voting me the minute I call you out, how about you try and show me where I am wrong in my read?

--

Suppose I am mafia, and I read your doctor claim, what do you consider is most likely? That I nightkill what is probably the only role capable of stopping a night-kill, or gambling on killing a townie knowing he could get saved, only to try and push a case on a claimed doc the next day, where if I am wrong, will probably get me killed (or at least draw a metric crapton of attention to me), which could be easily avoided by just killing you in the night.

It's far more likely you used your safe claim to avoid a cop investigation on you.
My case stands. You only have my vote on you, and you use faulty logic to counter me.

Convince me I am wrong by showing us what you have done for town so far, and adressing the points brought forward by me.

[the white rose]

Sorry i haven't been posting much just lately, been really busy with real life.

I do promise however, to take half an hour to study this game later today and i will give my views then.

[DJPatrick]

There is and has been NO Cop investigation on me, Streaker..you are Mafia and yes you gambled, rubbing your hands with glee at being able to neuter the new intern,,as you know you are purposefully wrong but it won't get you killed...are you going call me out on the role or just continue to hack at townsfolk???

[Streaker]

There is and has been NO Cop investigation on me, Streaker..you are Mafia and yes you gambled, rubbing your hands with glee at being able to neuter the new intern,,as you know you are purposefully wrong but it won't get you killed...are you going call me out on the role or just continue to hack at townsfolk???

Are you even bothering to read what I am saying? I am not suggesting cop checked you, I think you claimed doc to prevent that from happening, as well.

I'm not calling you out on your role, I'm not 'just' hacking at townsfolk. You are not a confirmed townie because you claim doc. Here is 'just' my case on you, so you can answer it:

-Softclaimed for no reason
-Made sure everyone saw his softclaim
-Wagoned without any kind of contribution
-Layed low saying absolutely nothing until end of day
-Survived the night as claimed doc

Looks to me like he has been given doc as a safe fake claim, I don't see any other reason to come out like that if you are truly town. In the event that a town doc would claim that, he would be up on the barricades leading town as a strong semi-confirmed townie. But he layed very low.

It would be great if you could adress these points that I brought up in the case against you, instead of rambling nonsense.

[DJPatrick]

No Streaker, you are NOT calling me out on my role...if you did,as you wrote above, would probably get you killed...You are the Mafia Maestro of Manipulation who was (unfortunately?) shoe-horned into a Beginners Game...One you personally asked me to join btw...You of all pps here knew I had no initial clue as to the role plays...you are trying, very hard, to ensure mafia drops another townie...I defy you and notify fellow townies to weigh your inputs so are and eliminate YOU

[rizky_biznezz]

I was kind of on the fence about streaker but going after u DJ is pretty risky if u flip town streaker will be the obvious choice for us..

U said there was no investigation on u are u trying to say ur the cop im confused

[rizky_biznezz]

So streaker is ur main suspect DJ what are ur thoughts on everyone else

[Streaker]

No Streaker, you are NOT calling me out on my role...if you did,as you wrote above, would probably get you killed...You are the Mafia Maestro of Manipulation who was (unfortunately?) shoe-horned into a Beginners Game...One you personally asked me to join btw...You of all pps here knew I had no initial clue as to the role plays...you are trying, very hard, to ensure mafia drops another townie...I defy you and notify fellow townies to weigh your inputs so are and eliminate YOU

Reply to the points that I have layed out before you, twice already. Convince me you are not mafia playing the noob card.

Again, reply to these points, there is no use in evading them unless you are scum:

-Softclaimed for no reason
-Made sure everyone saw his softclaim
-Wagoned without any kind of contribution
-Layed low saying absolutely nothing until end of day
-Survived the night as claimed doc

[Streaker]

I was kind of on the fence about streaker but going after u DJ is pretty risky if u flip town streaker will be the obvious choice for us..

U said there was no investigation on u are u trying to say ur the cop im confused

He's not saying he is the cop, he claimed doc already. Dj is refusing to answer anything I point out, and is now actively posting while he laid low for days on end previous day now that he has been called out. Coincidence?

Also, I am now his main suspect for the sole reason I pointed out his suspicious play (which he refused to give any kind of answer to).

[Streaker]

Streaker asks for thoughts on his diatribe to assign me to a lynching so here's mine...Streaker was the first to pick up on my intentionally mmisspelt "claim" so he and henchman decided to use this to kill another townie and leave me as easy picking...and yes, Soldier was already due for the rope so what better for him to do than let us lynch our own then pick off an easy target in the night and get me next day...good thinking on his/there part but don't get sucked in...Streaker lurks this Mafia site and knows th ropes...if Dom Streaker and henchmen get a strong townie they're in the home straight...[color=#FF0000]VOTE STREAKER [/color]and keep a close eye on those jumping on his bandwagon

I underlined the part where DJ's logic goes haywire. 'Scum picked up on the claimed doc, so they obviously decided to... let him live'.

There is no such thing as 'easy pickings' trying to build a case on a claimed doc, and I would not be doing so if your gameplay had such obvious 'new player' scum traits to them.

I will await DJ's answers to the points I have provided several times now.
What everyone else should be doing right now is giving their opinions on the discussion that is happening. Form your opinions and share it. I have done the heavy lifting making the case, now everyone needs to chip in and either help me build the case on DJ, or step in and defend him if you feel I am wrong.

[Epitaph1]

VOTE COUNT

Patrick - Streaker
Streaker - Patrick

With 8 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.
Deadline: 9:00 CCT on Monday, November 23.

[rizky_biznezz]

I do find the fact that we basically had nothing from him day 1 and all of a sudden when he is a suspect he has input scummy.. On top of him dodging ur questions and being really defensive but I also would like to know what his thoughts are on others.. At least if we were wrong we would have somewhere to look..

I was just checking i wasn't sure about the "NO investigation on me" I wasn't sure how he was so certain thought maybe he was claiming something else

[AladdinSane]

I want to put a theory out there and would appreciate hearing what everyone thinks about it. I don't have solid evidence to back this up yet; it's just a gut feeling at this point.

Basically, the theory is this: we Town are being treated to a deceptive piece of theatre. To wit: Patrick is scum and is being offered up as a sacrifice. The purpose of the sacrifice is to make Streaker, who according to this theory is scum, look beyond reproach by enabling him to lead the charge against Patrick.

The play would unfold like this: (1) Patrick claims doc for no good reason, making himself look scummy. (2) Streaker picks up on this and the two of them bicker back and forth as we have seen in recent posts, with Patrick refusing to address Streaker's apparent concerns, and Streaker pressing him hard. (3) Collectively we vote to lynch Patrick. (4) Patrick flips scum, making Streaker look very Town. (5) Streaker leads scum to victory, remaining undetected until Town are all in their graves.

As I say, I don't have solid evidence for this, but I think there are reasons to suspect this is what is going on. First, Raglan/Streaker is experienced, and I would expect them to play a deep game. Second, Streaker was suspiciously quiet toward the end of D1 and refrained from voting, without explanation. Streaker is a GC mod, so I expect his silence then wasn't as a result of not being logged in. Now, though, Streaker seems almost too good to be true. He is looking really useful as a scum hunter and is active in marshalling the rest of us into giving our thoughts on this and that. He seems like the ideal Town and...I just get this gut feeling about it. Streaker might be what he appears to be, but he might just be running a deep game.

So, what does everyone think? Streaker, I would be particularly interested in your views on this.

[Streaker]

I was inactive for the second part of last week, even missed a couple turns. I think I stated it in the game I am modding, as well. Personal reasons, moving and such.

---

Aladdin, I like how you put together that theory, and it is definitely not 'impossible' for mafia to bus a teammate to gain the ultimate town credit.

All your points are valid, up until nr5. That would mean you would ALL think of me as 100% confirmed town because I lynched a mafia. It would also mean I lead the lynches of 3-4 townies all by myself. I mean seriously, by the time I got the 2nd town lynched a few alarm bells will be going off.

In any case, the solution is simple. If we lynch DJ, and he flips scum, you should simply not consider myself as a confirmed townie.

If you don't agree with what I am saying, that's fine. Build a case yourself, and try to sell it. But we need to get discussion going and I'm doing just that. Me calling everyone out to give opinions is only because 90% of the players are being dead quiet (and may or may not know exactly what to do here).

[AladdinSane]

Okay Streaker, understand your previous absence now. Will reply to the rest of your response later. I want to see what others think before going on with this.

Another noob question (for anyone): What exactly is the cmposition of the group? How many Town, how many Scum? Probably should have asked earlier.

[TimWoodbury]

typiclly in a game of this sort there is ONLY 2 mafia.
im also curious about DJ, it seems DJ is preaty defensive(1st game so not shure what to think will need him to play more to get a good read on him and being defensive.)
i think had streaker been around later in D1 he prolly would of brought up the snail bait that DJ left and asked more of it there

[bosaardbeitje]

A lot has happened in here, will post this evening (my evening that is)

[AladdinSane]

All your points are valid, up until nr5. That would mean you would ALL think of me as 100% confirmed town because I lynched a mafia. It would also mean I lead the lynches of 3-4 townies all by myself. I mean seriously, by the time I got the 2nd town lynched a few alarm bells will be going off.

In any case, the solution is simple. If we lynch DJ, and he flips scum, you should simply not consider myself as a confirmed townie.

Me calling everyone out to give opinions is only because 90% of the players are being dead quiet (and may or may not know exactly what to do here).

Okay, nice response Streaker, but I'm not willing to entirely give up on the theory yet. I know I said I would wait for the input of others, but I just want to clarify a couple of things in the light of what you wrote. And thanks to Tim for the info that there are typically only two Mafia. That would def make the sacrifice of one Mafia (Patrick, according to my theory) a high-risk strategy.

So, to address what Streaker wrote:

(1) The theory doesn't require us to consider you 100% Town. It would merely have to make you look a more solid choice for Town than most of the rest of us. And, after leading the charge against a confirmed scum, you WOULD have more cred than the rest of us, especially with the active role you appear to be playing.

(2) The theory doesn't mean you would have to lead the lynches of 3-4 Townies. I admit that the way I phrased the theory was a bit misleading in this respect. Having established solid credibility, you would merely have to keep up the pretense of actively scum-hunting and watch as Town tore itself apart.

(3) You say the solution is simple: If Patrick is lynched and flips scum, we shouldn't give you too much Town credit for it. Here I agree with you 100% but, given that this theory is now out there, it doesn't hurt you to say that even if you are scum, since it is the obvious solution.

(4) Yes, it is plausible that you are calling people out because several are being quiet. I concede that. But your actions are also consistent with my theory.

On that note, will wait for opinions of others.

[madmitch]

@ did you make a soft claim about being a back up docter? and Streaker I do not like you riding the new guys, you are on DJ,s case now and you were on the soldiers case in day 1 .you are really looking scummy to me.

[DJPatrick]

It's said up above that I claimed Doc "for no good reason"...it's true that we were mostly stumbling in the dark during the first daylight and soldier dies for that...and obviously the night bought a Mafia kill so...yes, it was "snail bait" to attract the killers...big gamble by Mafia (my reading of the game is that there were and are three of them) to let Streaker lead the assault by who better...the experienced man bought in late goes in for the kill by laying unanswerable accusations and repeating and repeating ad nauseum....much better if the scum gets us townies to do the majority of heavy killing...they get me and it's almost 50/50 with the other killer(s) still in the shade....consider

[bosaardbeitje]

Mitch - leaning scum - started of too serious for his own good, OMGUS voted Tim, then voted IB, then went back to voting Tim, still don't know what Tim did to look scummy
Tim - leaning town - claimed VT, would like to hear more
DJ - ? - defensive from the beginning on, defends Tim, claimed Doc, OMGUS voted Streak, says there is no Cop investigation on him???
Aladdin - strong town - seems to look for good strategies and the bigger picture
Rizky - leaning town - seems to hunt and form an opinion
Streak - ? - pushing the DJ case pretty hard, maybe too hard
TWR - leaning scum - very quiet, voted Tim for not being able to read his posts, not enough input so far, feels 'happy' about switching to Soldier

At the moment I find the back and forth between DJ and Streak mainly distracting, so I don't really have a read on one or the other. Can the 2 of you please focus on other players as well instead of completely tunnelling on 1 person? If you feel so strongly about each other can you also try to point out who you think the scum partner of the other one is?

A few questions... Streak says he would have killed DJ because of his Doc claim. I would like to hear what all of you would have done, because I don't think I would have done that. I would probably look for a more important role, which could explain why DJ is still alive and IB is dead, altough I don't see any hints that IB had a Power Role. The other option is that DJ is still alive because scum didn't pick up on his hint, because I sure didn't Was it really that obvious to everyone that he claimed Doc?

DJ, why did you think it was a good idea to let us know your role so early in the game? You do have an important part to play, if you are telling the truth, so why not keep it secret as long as possible? Also, why do you say that the Cop didn't investigate you. How do you know that?

When reading the last part of the day, I thought that Alladin was on to something, but there is one part that bothers me...

I would also think that that there are 2 mafiosos in this game, 3 would be an overkill, unless Town has a huge amount of Power Roles, which is not completely unlikely with what we have seen so far, but I don't know a whole lot about game balance.

Assuming there are only 2 mafiosos, it would require A LOT from the surviving mafioso and I am quite sure that it would end in a win for Town. Since we know about the backup Cop, most likely another Cop and a Doc, I would expect mafia to be pretty careful and I don't think they would throw each other under the bus early.

So yeah... Pretty much undecided about DJ vs Streak. Please let me know what you all think.

I am patiently awaiting input from TWR, who is still on my radar.

[TimWoodbury]

hmm if i remember the last beginner game streak sat back and let others run the game this one hes doing quite the opposite hes being very pushy especially of the new guys. so FOS streaker

[Streaker]

It's said up above that I claimed Doc "for no good reason"...it's true that we were mostly stumbling in the dark during the first daylight and soldier dies for that...and obviously the night bought a Mafia kill so...yes, it was "snail bait" to attract the killers...big gamble by Mafia (my reading of the game is that there were and are three of them) to let Streaker lead the assault by who better...the experienced man bought in late goes in for the kill by laying unanswerable accusations and repeating and repeating ad nauseum....much better if the scum gets us townies to do the majority of heavy killing...they get me and it's almost 50/50 with the other killer(s) still in the shade....consider

I will say this just one more time. Read this carefully: Answer the points I made. I have quoted them a number of times now. You are not convincing me of you being town by ignoring them.

This is yet another post where DJ chooses to ignore anything I have said. Unanswerable? Hardly.

Furthermore, I'm getting heat for 'pushing newbies'. What should I do? This is a newbie game. 6 out of 8 players are new, do you want me to limit my cases on the more experienced players, or would you rather have me call out the suspicious stuff?

Mitch, please show where I was 'on soldier case D1'. I asked him a couple questions, and demanded that he claimed. I didn't even vote him:

Soldier - Patrick, Aladdin, Tim, bos, whiterose*, risky (LYNCH)

But look and behold, DJpatrick was on that lynch.

Aladdin, your theory does hold up, to some extent. I don't expect to convince you that it's not possible, because I like what you said. It's something you have to keep in mind for all games, but should not stop you from persuing a good case.

Guys, let me put this here very clearly. Pushing a case is how you lynch scum, and get information from players. Giving your opinion on cases is needed, but won't win the game for you. Being passive is bad.

[Streaker]

DJ

-Why did you softclaimed for no reason
-Why did you make sure everyone saw your softclaim
-Why did you wagon on D1 (place your vote without giving any kind of reason, explanation)
-Why did you lay low after placing your vote, saying absolutely nothing until end of day (you manage to post quite a bit now you are called out)
-How do you explain you survived the night as claimed doc

These are hardly 'unanswerable' questions. Do not ignore them, again, please.