Terminator Mafia Game Thread Mafia Win!

[safariguy5]

I suppose it is possible for marcus to be a miller however I've never heard of a busdriving miller)

I think we just hit the nail on the head, I'm going to buy Blake's name claim (mostly 'cause I don't want to inadvertently lynch a power role) and if Rodion is a miller, albeit busdriving, that explains the result. The fact that the name and role aren't closely related is not much of a surprise; for Rodion, marcus and his ability aren't exactly logical either.

uvote

Well, now we need a lynch target within a week, or maybe the mod will notice the spike in activity and extend the deadline, pretty please?

Nope sorry. Deadlines are deadlines. Can't drag out the day, it leads to mass claims and other unpleasantness.

[strike wolf]

I guess since this is stagnating as far as finding a case and I don't think either are the most scummy I'll present the case I was going to mention yesterday:

So let's take a look at naxus:

No Lynch day one is the scummiest thing you can do day one.

Vote Army of god even if it is your play style like like 00icon said, still scummy
FOS Doom Yoshi for willing to vote NO lynch
FOS BlakeBowling for wanting it also

Quickly jumping on the first real developing bandwagon as it is about to take off without really adding anything

Blake while mistakes can happen, My belief in mafia games is the same as in literature. There are no mistakes in a book, everything in the book was meant to be there.

Unvote Vote Blake

Again jumping on the developing bandwagon. Again not adding anything legitimate. People don't make mistakes? Really so everyone who in this game who makes one mistake should be voted. So certainly Rodion who had the quick hammer on Doomyoshi day one should have been voted for his mistake especially after the claimed cop comes out as saying he is guilty...To find the answer to this let's skip ahead in his posts to his first post of day 2 (Not much to skip a singular post asking for clarification of vote count and no comment of current discussions):

Vote Rodion

I investigated him last night, he is guilty.

Sweet

Vote: Rodion

With a bodyguard and a jailkeeper out of the way, however, it's quite likely we have maybe 1, if not none, protection role left..If there is a watcher or tracker, now's the time to be smart.

Before we immediately kill Rodion, lets try and clear the air a little.

Blake, With your investigation did it come back as "He is guilty" or was there flavor text with it?Also with this being your first investigation and this games theme, your sanity can be thrown into question.But then again the size of the game limits that.

I agree freezie that we need to play smart, and not blindly follow someone without a little bit of info.

FOS Rodion and Blake

okay this isn't horrible at least you've made effort to FOS rodion but you apparently misread and/or skimmed over freezie's post.

Vote Count

Rodion(2)- blake, freezie
blake(1)- Rodion
freezie(1)- naxus

With 10 alive, it takes 6 to lynch.

I haven't voted anyone today.

Freezie, I didn't say it wasn't smart to vote Rodion

I wouldn't say the freezie's vote was bloodthirsty, A cop came forward and she believed him. Not huge evidence one way or another.
Blake could be a insane cop or he could also be paranoid, One's semi useful while the other is a blatant waste of time. With this games theme I'm leaning towards paranoid which makes me Vote Blake

THIS! You don't even try to disguise this as voting someone who could be scum...you blatantly say you vote for someone because you believe they could be either a paranoid or an insane cop. It doesn't matter if he is paranoid, the fact that you, naxus are so willing to vote for someone who you apparently have no reason to doubt as a townie is the most suspicious comment in the entire game. vote naxus

I would expect that even if the "true" cop didn't counter-claim at this juncture in the game, what with a protection role unlikely and only D2, that s/he still throw their weight behind you in debunking this claim.

THIS. If the 'real' cop is half smart, he will know that a fake-claim cop would mean high danger for the town at this point of the game. Even without protection, he NEEDS to counter claim, clear someone with his night investigation and lynch the fakeclaimer. As you can tell, it hasn't happened yet. That makes me 99% sure that Blake is the real cop, Rodion is scum and that Icon is beeing overly protective of Rodion.

Rodion, I haven't been skimming. Your posts are full of bullcrap. If I had found even something to answer to you, I would have. My vote stays on you. And also on your scumate

FoS: Icon

But the cop has to think of endgame scenario, Say blake is faking being the cop and the real cop comes out of nowhere. We lynch blake and then mafia NK the real cop. Then town would have lost two protective roles and its only investigative role. Thats not good numbers for town. The cop has a lose lose situation. Stay quiet and watch Rodion(Town in my opinion) get lynched or he can claim have blake lynched(Fake cop in my opinon) and then get himself NK. Either way, town is losing numbers when they dont have numbers to lose.

Honestly there isn't anything glaringly wrong with this statement however it is kind of a big turn from your last comment. You seem to have gone from thinking he was paranoid to believing he is fake claiming without basing any reason for the shift in behavior.

Also, something else I just thought.

What scum busdriver would have busdriven me towards someone else that was scum? Noone knew that I was cop D1, so for all they knew, I had a SK ability and would have killed that person? That is assuming that there isn't a town busdriver that busdrove me last night.

Any busdriver COULD have switched Rodion with -X- person out there. Which would have given you the scum result.

But that is very unlikely, and ( hey look another point on Rodion's scumminess ) not explaining Rodion's huge attack on Blake.

Ok freezie think it through for a minute

Busdriver is possible in a 12 person game. Not 100% but likely. Usually in my experiences with busdrivers, N1 is a random switch to throw town off or to protect themselves.

Blake claiming cop first post day 2 and picking someone that had already wagoned against him the prior day? Little suspicious.

Mafia fakeclaiming cop day 2? While a little irrational on their part, due to the size of this game it is a viable option. The other cop can't really counterclaim without fucking the town completley

Blakes strategy if he is a fake cop(Which he totally is) makes a lot of sense

Here actually the scenarios are flawed...all of them completely neglect any possibility of a vigilante which would take claiming cop from "a little irrational" to completely insane. They claim cop....end up lynching an innocent get killed in the night after revealing a scumbuddy so he gets lynched...great scenario for scum especially when they can't guarantee the cop will step forward to counterclaim or town will even believe their claim. It also rides on the theory that scum either preplanned their strategy somehow knowing the other protective role would die or not believing there would be a second one with no other possibilities for preventing their planned kill (busdrivers, bulletproof, etc) or blake came up with this risky move on his own 4 hours (that he may not have been on) after the day scene without considering that the person he could lynch may in fact be the actual cop. It really does not make much sense and I think you've been in enough mafia games to realize that.

[blakebowling]

I agree with the suspicion of naxus. And since we have little time, and few other leads. Vote naxus

[Rodion]

I'm going to comment on the "strong" points you've raised, Wolf.

THIS! You don't even try to disguise this as voting someone who could be scum...you blatantly say you vote for someone because you believe they could be either a paranoid or an insane cop. It doesn't matter if he is paranoid, the fact that you, naxus are so willing to vote for someone who you apparently have no reason to doubt as a townie is the most suspicious comment in the entire game. vote naxus

That was a great catch! Indeed, a townie cop providing unreliable results it no reason to lynch him. Correct action would be either to ignore him (paranoid) or do the opposite of what he suggests (insane). I kinda feel ashamed I didn't spot that myself.
Maybe it was your "fresh perspective"?

Honestly there isn't anything glaringly wrong with this statement however it is kind of a big turn from your last comment. You seem to have gone from thinking he was paranoid to believing he is fake claiming without basing any reason for the shift in behavior.

I agree that the shift is weird. I actually think we've approached a clutch point in D2.

What do we have here?

We have naxus doing the same action (voting Blake) for multiple reasons (cop sanity / Blake lying) without so much as an explanation.

What does that mean?

That means naxus wants Blake lynched "no matter what". Discarding lyncher roles and other obscure/unlikely powers I can see 2 reasons for that:

1 - Naxus is scum, Blake is the cop. Naxus is trying to get a townie PR lynched for obvious reasons. I'm not going to expand on that possibility merely because it is self-explanatory.

2 - Naxus is the "true" cop. Blake fakeclaimed and is mafia. That option explains why Naxus voted for Blake regardless of revealing a "valid reason". If he knows he is the cop and someone else makes that claim, the other person is scum, period. The fact that he changed from "voting Blake for reason A" to "vote Blake for reason B", while intriguing from the outside perspective, is totally understandable from Naxus' perspective ("I am the cop and Blake is lying, so whatever reason I find to lynch him will do"). If he can base that lynch on a reason other than "I am sure he is lying" (because I am the cop), even better, as he can get the known mafia lynched without revealing his PR just to get N2 killed. That's probably what he attempted by first basing his vote on Blake's sanity.

Moment 1: "let's use whatever card I can in order to get Blake lynched without claiming myself or giving the mafia a reason to believe I'm the cop" -> solution: vote because of Blake's sanity.

As illogical as that reason may sound, it's better than starting from Moment 2. He can always go to Moment 2 after Moment 1 proves innefective, which is what he did.

Moment 2: "my invalid reason is not working, let's change it to a valid reason (Blake lying) without claiming. Downside here is the mafia realizing I know he's lying because I'm the cop and thus risking to get my self N2 killed." -> solution: vote because of Blake's lie.

The problem here is that Wolf caught that behaviour shift, thus forcing Naxus to engage into Moment 3.

Moment 3: "the reason shift made people suspect me, so now I'm forced to claim. I'll get Blake D2 lynched and myself N2 killed, but right now it's the best choice I have".

So, the way I see it, naxus/Blake are 1 mafia/1 town. Wolf's catch has put Naxus into a position in which he is forced to claim and the only viable claim to explain everything in my opinion is "cop". I now request Naxus to claim name and role. If cop, I also request him to claim N1 target and N1 investigation result.

For now, unvote blakebowling.

Here actually the scenarios are flawed...all of them completely neglect any possibility of a vigilante which would take claiming cop from "a little irrational" to completely insane. They claim cop....end up lynching an innocent get killed in the night after revealing a scumbuddy so he gets lynched...great scenario for scum especially when they can't guarantee the cop will step forward to counterclaim or town will even believe their claim. It also rides on the theory that scum either preplanned their strategy somehow knowing the other protective role would die or not believing there would be a second one with no other possibilities for preventing their planned kill (busdrivers, bulletproof, etc) or blake came up with this risky move on his own 4 hours (that he may not have been on) after the day scene without considering that the person he could lynch may in fact be the actual cop. It really does not make much sense and I think you've been in enough mafia games to realize that.

I'd like you to elaborate on that, Wolf. Why would the existence of a Vigilante (townie that can kill during the night) make the cop claim less rational?

So, mafia fakeclaims cop and succesfully lynches a townie, but then he dies on N2 by the vigilante after revealing a scumbuddy? How would that scumbuddy be revealed? And, if the scumbuddy is indeed revealed and D3 lynched, how is that a great scenario for the mafia?

Sorry, but thus paragraph really didn't make any sense to me. Please explain!

[strike wolf]

I was going based on the discussion and that two cops is unlikely and most don't believe that an insane cop is possible and that because of this the mafia would consider similar scenarios. If blake was mafia and trying to use the fake cop claim than it seemed logical to me that whether it was discussed with his team mate or not once the fake claim would have been made than that scummate could put himself on the cops wagon with little attention while the other scum usually sits on the side line (if they themselves are not the subject of the lynch, cops will do that from time to time to get scum lynched). Through reasoning even if the mafia are successful in their lynch and town realizes they've been hoodwinked, if there is a vig he'd take out the mafia claimed cop and then then the rest of the wagon is put into the spotlight including the scum buddy who defended him. It is possible that the scum buddy tries to stay out of it but if he goes against his scum buddy in the day he risks getting his scum buddy killed and if he ignores the cop's case mostly if not completely that person will stand out.

As for the rest of your post while I did consider that I do not like the idea of people giving potential scum ways to counter-claim (I believe if he is the real cop he would be able to come up with that himself and provide a solid name claim). I also considered that his behavior was relatively consistent until recently dating back before blake made his claim so it did not appear to me to be a case of knowing that blake was fake claiming because he was a cop.

[safariguy5]

Vote Count

Rodion(2)- freezie, tails
blake(2)- naxus, MeDeFe
naxus(2)- strike, blake

With 10 alive, it takes 6 to lynch.

5 days till deadline.

[safariguy5]

Announcement

edocsil has replaced Army of GOD.

[edocsil]

Firm, Reading, will post soon.

[edocsil]

Ok, what the hell is going on here? Claimed cop got a guilty, why is this taking so long? 12 man game, the cop is fucking sane, don't even question it. So, only options that leaves us with is a busdriver switching Rodion and scum. 2 busdrivers in a little game like this is generally considered bastard modding, especially if one is scum. If there IS a scum busdriver we need to know ASAP. Hanging Rodion will tell us that.

This also assumes that Blake is actually the cop. If someone counterclaims or a dead cop turns up we will have to look into this, but until then I will assume blake is who he claims he is. Vote Rodion

[naxus]

I am not the cop

But I am Miles Dyson from T2, Town Inventor

My inventions I started with are
Metal Detector-One uses-I could investigate one person
CPU Chip Override Code-One use- I could roleblock one person if they were synthetic.No effect on humans
Radioactive Isotope-One Use-I could track one person
Terminator Arm Prototype-One Use-One Kill

Night 1 I investigated Blake(Due to Rodions suggestion and my own suspicion) with the metal detector and found him guilty. When day 2 started with the death of Shield(And what I assumed as the last town protective role) and Blake coming out of the blue with his accusation. I knew he was trying to fool the town. I kept low trying to just get him lynched or to roleclaim. When the BW on him started to stagnate and then he claimed Miles, I was unsure of what to do. As I had figured out earlier, if I came forward I was almost 100% sure to be NK N2. But with strikes wagon on me, I can't stay silent any longer. Blake is Mafia. We must kill him and hope to god that you guys get a good lynch tomorrow because I'm a walking target tonight.

[edocsil]

I am not the cop

But I am Miles Dyson from T2, Town Inventor

My inventions I started with are
Metal Detector-One uses-I could investigate one person
CPU Chip Override Code-One use- I could roleblock one person if they were synthetic.No effect on humans
Radioactive Isotope-One Use-I could track one person
Terminator Arm Prototype-One Use-One Kill

Night 1 I investigated Blake(Due to Rodions suggestion and my own suspicion) with the metal detector and found him guilty. When day 2 started with the death of Shield(And what I assumed as the last town protective role) and Blake coming out of the blue with his accusation. I knew he was trying to fool the town. I kept low trying to just get him lynched or to roleclaim. When the BW on him started to stagnate and then he claimed Miles, I was unsure of what to do. As I had figured out earlier, if I came forward I was almost 100% sure to be NK N2. But with strikes wagon on me, I can't stay silent any longer. Blake is Mafia. We must kill him and hope to god that you guys get a good lynch tomorrow because I'm a walking target tonight.

Well well well. That changes the whole ballgame quite a bit. Obviously unvote Vote Blake. Same logic applies as my previous post, if some one gets a guilty you hang him. Either Blake is scum or Naxus is and Blake looks the far scummier. Also, if he does happen to flip town, that will give us good info on rodion too.

[jeraado]

vote blake

[Rodion]

Claimed:

AoG/edocsil
Rodion
Blake
Naxus

Non-claimed:

Freezie
Tail
Jeraado
Medefe
Violet/Wolf
00iCon

Time elapsed since Naxus' claim: about 1 hour
Blake's status - 4 votes, L-2

I think we can't hammer Blake before we give the 6 non-claimed characters a chance to counterclaim Naxus. Jeraado already voted, so I'm guessing he bought the claim, but there are still 5 people out there that could potentially counterclaim.

In case Blake's dead after I wake up and he flips mafia, do not use the tracking power, Naxus. You'll possibly be dead before you get to report the results to us.
You should either try to roleblock or kill a mafia, powers that will be useful even if you're NKed. My advice for targets are Freezie and Tail by decreasing order of scumminess.

Since a good bus swap can save 1 townie and kill 1 mafia, I can also possibly be NKed before I get to talk again. So, as my possible last remarks on my first mafia game ( ), please keep in mind we may be dealing with an 8-4 distribution. For the record, I consider Jeraado slightly scummier than Medefe and Wolf, but nothing set in stone at this level.

[edocsil]

No offense, But if things were only considered on an individual basis and there were no investigations available I would have you lynched in a heartbeat Rodion. You have some of the ideas right on track, with the NK/RB vs a track, but there is no way there are 4 scum in a 12 man game, especially with VT's I would guess more like 2. Also, for the record trying to control the night actions without real solid evidence = massive scumtell.

[jeraado]

I think we can't hammer Blake before we give the 6 non-claimed characters a chance to counterclaim Naxus. Jeraado already voted, so I'm guessing he bought the claim, but there are still 5 people out there that could potentially counterclaim.

I didn't 'buy the claim' - either blake or naxus is lying. Given that we were just weighing up whether blake was lying before (in trying to lynch you), and given that he's now been counter-claimed, he's the obvious candidate. Given that Naxus had no reason to counterclaim if he's scum (it's too early in the game for it to be that decisive) I see no reason to doubt naxus' claim. However even if Naxus is lying, we'll wind up mislynching today but having a confirmed scum tomorrow.

I don't understand what other players could possibly counter-claim. If someone else claims Miles Dyson from t2 then that just means we have two liars. If someone else claims JOAT, then it would make me more suspicious of naxus, but its not impossible (far more likely than 2 busdrivers, which you proposed earlier). What exactly could someone say to make you not lynch blake?

I guess who we protect tonight depends on the result of the lynch. If blake turns up truthful then it'll be naxus, followed by rodion on the chopping block, however if not then scum will probably be looking to take out either rodion or naxus following those claims.

[00iCon]

Ok, what the hell is going on here? Claimed cop got a guilty, why is this taking so long? 12 man game, the cop is fucking sane, don't even question it. So, only options that leaves us with is a busdriver switching Rodion and scum. 2 busdrivers in a little game like this is generally considered bastard modding, especially if one is scum. If there IS a scum busdriver we need to know ASAP. Hanging Rodion will tell us that.

This also assumes that Blake is actually the cop. If someone counterclaims or a dead cop turns up we will have to look into this, but until then I will assume blake is who he claims he is. Vote Rodion

You don't believe in millers either?
(I know the quote is a bit stale already, but I'm trying to highlight how underthought your statement was).

I believe Naxus is town since that role is hard to synthesise AND he's been on the blake wagon for some time. This leads on to Rodion being town, who switched shielgen and me (bit of a mistake ) so I must be town. Of course this will be all effed up if blake flips town :/
vote Blake again

[MeDeFe]

*snip*
I think we can't hammer Blake before we give the 6 non-claimed characters a chance to counterclaim Naxus. Jeraado already voted, so I'm guessing he bought the claim, but there are still 5 people out there that could potentially counterclaim.
*snip*

Considering that both Blake and Naxus claimed to be Miles Dyson from Terminator 2 I believe it is highly unlikely that a third person would claim the same character. That said, I'm keeping my vote where it is. With Blake having been counterclaimed his position is looking very unstable, and we'll end up with some very good leads whether he flips town or scum.

[strike wolf]

I am not the cop

But I am Miles Dyson from T2, Town Inventor

My inventions I started with are
Metal Detector-One uses-I could investigate one person
CPU Chip Override Code-One use- I could roleblock one person if they were synthetic.No effect on humans
Radioactive Isotope-One Use-I could track one person
Terminator Arm Prototype-One Use-One Kill

Night 1 I investigated Blake(Due to Rodions suggestion and my own suspicion) with the metal detector and found him guilty. When day 2 started with the death of Shield(And what I assumed as the last town protective role) and Blake coming out of the blue with his accusation. I knew he was trying to fool the town. I kept low trying to just get him lynched or to roleclaim. When the BW on him started to stagnate and then he claimed Miles, I was unsure of what to do. As I had figured out earlier, if I came forward I was almost 100% sure to be NK N2. But with strikes wagon on me, I can't stay silent any longer. Blake is Mafia. We must kill him and hope to god that you guys get a good lynch tomorrow because I'm a walking target tonight.

I'm calling bullshit. The mod gave fake claims for this game (check the sign up sheet if you don't believe me). It doesn't make sense for the mod to give a fake name of a character already in the game so this means either blake is mafia and he went againtst his fake claim name for whatever reason or naxus is trying to be clever by claiming the same persons name.

Also look at his invention list he has a one shot investigation ability a one shot tracking ability a kill a roleblock and one he only described as having no effect on humans. Sounds a bit weighted toward the investigative side and he apparently can't describe what the last one does. Not to nitpick though but more commonly than not inventors don't know what each of their specific inventions do either.

[00iCon]

Well, strike, why don't we kill Blake. This web of lies has been spun and most players are trapped in it. If Blake flips scum, good for us. If Blake flips vanilla(or other non-investigative), lynch Naxus. If Blake was the cop, let's get Naxus and Rodion(and maybe myself down the line if it must be done).

[00iCon]

Also, Strike, thanks for reminding me about the rules. Rule 10 was don't read too far into night scenes. Good job skimming, Blake.

[blakebowling]

I find three things wrong with naxus' claim:

#1 - I'm Miles Dyson, town cop
#2 - 99% of the time, Inventors don't know that their inventions do (like strike just said)
#3 - naxus claimed to be the same name as me, only after I revealed the name of my character, and right after edoc said he would be for lynching me if someone counterclaimed.

You scum are really trying hard to lynch me. I'm just a noob that got cop.

icon, how was I skimming? Tails mentioned the scene and I posted how it would be unrelated.

[00iCon]

icon, how was I skimming? Tails mentioned the scene and I posted how it would be unrelated.

huh, i randomly clicked on p 15 and found what i wanted

I read it, but for some reason I thought it meant he was supposed to be protecting Yoshi (John Connor that was killed that day).

So my question is, Who the f*ck would kill AoG N1?
If he was townie, that would just confirm what he said, but wouldn't remove any power role. But it would also cut down a false lead on mafia.

That is you interpreting the scene as if the terminator had protected a John Connor. Don't remember?

[edocsil]

I find three things wrong with naxus' claim:

#1 - I'm Miles Dyson, town cop
#2 - 99% of the time, Inventors don't know that their inventions do (like strike just said)
#3 - naxus claimed to be the same name as me, only after I revealed the name of my character, and right after edoc said he would be for lynching me if someone counterclaimed.

You scum are really trying hard to lynch me. I'm just a noob that got cop.

icon, how was I skimming? Tails mentioned the scene and I posted how it would be unrelated.

#1 Great, good for you
#2 Not true, least not here, inventors always know what their inventions so, although they usually have to make them first. I would say He is actually a joat, but I assume flavor of the character fits inventor better.
#3 Surprise, that is how a counterclaim works.

[Rodion]

Also, for the record trying to control the night actions without real solid evidence = massive scumtell.

I based my suggestions on the premise that Blake indeed flips mafia. If he is, then aiming for his most dedicated followers (Freezie and Tail) sounds like a good way to go. If he flips town, then you'll disregard all I said.

I don't understand why that would be a "massive scumtell".

I don't understand what other players could possibly counter-claim.

Town Inventor?

If someone else claims JOAT, then it would make me more suspicious of naxus, but its not impossible (far more likely than 2 busdrivers, which you proposed earlier).

Can you please quote me proposing the existence of 2 bus drivers?

What exactly could someone say to make you not lynch blake?

"I'm the town inventor so naxus' claim is bull"?

Medefe, I was thinking more of a "role counterclaim" than a "name counterclaim". It is a 12-player game and I think there are no repeated town roles, except maybe VT. If someone counterclaimed Inventor, then we could possibly lynch Naxus and clear Blake, depending on the veracity of the counterclaim.

Blake, Miles Dyson as a cop sounds really weird.

I see now Jeraado, Medefe, Wolf and 00iCon have all posted without counterclaiming Inventor, meaning Naxus' claim stands. The only non-claimed ones that didn't post anything are Freezie and Tail, and I wouldn't believe a word they said anyway, so vote blakebowling.

The mod gave fake claims for this game (check the sign up sheet if you don't believe me).

I suggest you to start day 3 by explaining that (what "the mod giving a fake claim" means and how the sheet supports this theory).

[strike wolf]

Gj lynching the cops guys. Is that your second hammer rodion? Bad move lynching without knowing what a fake claim is especially in this case where it should have played a major part in the decision.

A fake claim is where the mod gives the scum a fake name and role to defend themselves in case of a claim. If I am right and blake flips town cop than I highly suggest looking further into rodion icon and edocsil (I realize edoc replaced someone who was cleared as town but go back to my first post where I explained various fake claims that might fit). If I am wrong and blake flips scum well do whatever you want I simply request that you allow me till morning to fully explain my thoughts.