Batman : Arkham City [Day 4] And we're back

[new guy1]

It,sthe right move to prevent mislynch. if he didn't claim and betiko was lynched and turned up town, he'd have to explain why he didn't come forward to save betiko.

nothing seems to have happened to Eric so I don't see a case against nag either. time to erase the chalkboard and look at something else.

I guess your right, and also /, I figured you would get what I meant. AKA did he see anything happen around edocsil, I mean considering he did visit him. You know, like someone going to the dead guy. But I guess since you want to play the game where I was OBVIOUSLY role fishing, I welcome your vote. I just figured that a bomb does not do much, we already had a claimed tracker, and we could still possibly kill a mafia with the bomb (though they likely wouldnt take the chance, WIFOM right there, /) that we didnt need yet another claim of BUSDRIVER which I already said was a VERY important role IMO, and whom I did not question his claim since that would be a bold move to FC. But you know, leave out the logic and your case sounds good.

[/]

It,sthe right move to prevent mislynch. if he didn't claim and betiko was lynched and turned up town, he'd have to explain why he didn't come forward to save betiko.

nothing seems to have happened to Eric so I don't see a case against nag either. time to erase the chalkboard and look at something else.

I guess your right, and also /, I figured you would get what I meant. AKA did he see anything happen around edocsil, I mean considering he did visit him. You know, like someone going to the dead guy. But I guess since you want to play the game where I was OBVIOUSLY role fishing, I welcome your vote. I just figured that a bomb does not do much, we already had a claimed tracker, and we could still possibly kill a mafia with the bomb (though they likely wouldnt take the chance, WIFOM right there, /) that we didnt need yet another claim of BUSDRIVER which I already said was a VERY important role IMO, and whom I did not question his claim since that would be a bold move to FC. But you know, leave out the logic and your case sounds good.

So, you know we have a claimed tracker, and you think nag could also be a tracker with valuable info on whether or not edoc killed safari?

[betiko]

oh well, use me as you like from now on to wifom mafia every night squirrel. I'm a bit worried that for now, we didn't have time for a lynch on day 1, lost a doc at night and now we have a bomb, a busdriver, a tracker + nag having a night role out there.

I quite feel like asking nag a bit more about this, but we just uncovered way too many prs. only thing I know is that this is advancing fast, not necesairly in the way i would like.

can we prod gilipig and iliad who are completely inactive and might have posted only 1 or 2 posts since the start?

[ghostly447]

Consider me traditional, but stupid is what stupid does. Let me explain.

Betiko. No offense, but what the hell? No mafia in their right mind would kill the number one lynch worthy target in N1 after D1 for 2 reasons, and all of you knuckle heads should know them:

1. No mafia is stupid enough to risk being tracked
2. No mafia is stupid enough to risk not getting an easy lynch the day after.

So that whole bs of not claiming was in a way not necessary. Sorry for forcing your claim, but I doubt you would have been killed anyways. Now we have a townie that is safe, and that is good (because no mafia is stupid enough to risk that your actually a bomb).

Claiming tracker just came out of the mess up. CMS did what was smart and came out with the claim. Unfortunately, it was in the wrong this time, nothing you could do there.

Now Mr. S claiming was just unreasonable in my opinion. If the bomb is not counterclaimed, the bomb can teach the hammerer a valuable lesson in not being silly. Busdriver is a make or break situation role in that they can indirectly kill mafia by their own foolishness of choosing an obvious target, and that should not be outed to prevent an idiot from blowing himself up. No mafia is stupid enough to dispute a bomb claim, and any town to go in before time for a counterclaim is given is asking to get blown to bits.

All in all, I Vote Spiesr for even suggesting the idea of the busdriver outing. Spiesr is good enough to know that the busdriver can finish a game just by having the brains to pick out the mafia (go back to my first game, FF7 for a prime example of me being the SK and dying to my own blade due to a smart move by the mafia bus driver).

By this logic, I also FOS /. My point in explaining absolutely every detail as to who is stupid enough to fall for something, etc, is that if Mr. S had to claim later in the game, I would fully understand if this was the logic used to excuse himself. Why risk a role that can turn a mafia kill into a mafia death over an un-counterclaimed bomb, and a dumb townie. Im sure we had VT's that if they were so confident Betiko was lying would have stepped up and taken to being blown to bits. Point is, I wouldnt have claimed because we already had a tracker claimed, now there are just 2 roles exposed. Mafia will not attack the bomb, and that is obvious (hell they left him here to allow a claim, why the hell would they doubt the claim?).

So thats my scum list so far. Spiesr and /. Spiesr for role fishing, / for even thinking NG1's logic was faulty. IMO, its clear as day why he said what he said.

[new guy1]

Well I can see where / is coming from ghost, but my point is this. /, where would you have gone had I not asked for information on nag? Gone with a random person? That still requires a claim in the end. One of the people who are claimed? Sure they may have fake claimed, but everything has been laid out and so if they did then obviously the other one is mafia, since they covered, right? So what did you have planned for the day? Cause in my eyes, the only place I saw to go was to question nag, and sure nothing happened to edoc, but IMO its better to ask someone who is questionable then target a random person. What would you have done?

[safariguy5]

Gaah, I had a feeling that was going to happen. Man, mafia are getting awfully lucky with hitting the town docs early recently. Go town.

[new guy1]

Good game saf, sucks you got shot down first night.

[strike wolf]

So ghost you'd rather have two townies killed rather than the driver stopping a mislynch? maybe you would believe him but would town as a whole? I can say pending a very strong claim I wouldn't believe him if he let the betiko lynch go through on false information.

I will fos spins for possibly forcing the driver's hand but overall I don't think spiesr is scum.

[new guy1]

I know that strike's comment was meant for ghost, but might as well use the opportunity to give more input. I dont want townies to die, but Im just saying if the Mr. Squirrel had claimed later and explained that he didnt think it was worth claiming, I would have believed his claim. Bombs are meant to go boom, right? My guess on betiko was a bulletproof, and the thought of the mafia hitting a bulletproof while most likely being tracked gave me tickles, must less a damn bomb. I think speiser has been making alot of slips, but I agree that I dont think he is scum, as I make slips when I am town and I dont even notice till someone points them out. Hell, I wouldnt have even posted my comment if I thought I was gonna get half the drama I am getting over it. I was trying to make a constructive post, not say that I didnt believe the claim. I was trying to help the rest of the town with my input on what direction I thought we should take, and it turns out most of town thinks its scummy. Im still confused as to how it has even gotten to the point where it is taking up the majority of the day so far (not saying its much, but come on).

[crazymilkshake5]

k then... so for now we can clear:
me
Mr. S
Bekito



Also, gg saf

Unvote
FP'd by NG1

[ghostly447]

So ghost you'd rather have two townies killed rather than the driver stopping a mislynch? maybe you would believe him but would town as a whole? I can say pending a very strong claim I wouldn't believe him if he let the betiko lynch go through on false information.

I will fos spins for possibly forcing the driver's hand but overall I don't think spiesr is scum.

Going by the logic that the town is intelligent enough not to need a bus driver to save the un-counter-claimed bomb, yes. Though its a low blow to insult intelligence levels, I have just never seen a person claim a bomb and not be it except for 1 occasion and they died because the real bomb countered it. So I can say very willingly that had that happened, I would have taken Mr. S's side on his reasoning had it been something similar to what I said.

Fast posted x2

[/]

Well I can see where / is coming from ghost, but my point is this. /, where would you have gone had I not asked for information on nag? Gone with a random person? That still requires a claim in the end. One of the people who are claimed? Sure they may have fake claimed, but everything has been laid out and so if they did then obviously the other one is mafia, since they covered, right? So what did you have planned for the day? Cause in my eyes, the only place I saw to go was to question nag, and sure nothing happened to edoc, but IMO its better to ask someone who is questionable then target a random person. What would you have done?

Fair enough, I'm not certain who I would have gone after, I would have reviewed the information we had for some old fashioned scum hunting and made a case, something I may still do depending on how this goes.
So tell me, what exactly are you saying about nag?

Well then I suppose we should ask nag what he was doing around edocsil...

First you say we should question his action.

also /, I figured you would get what I meant. AKA did he see anything happen around edocsil, I mean considering he did visit him. You know, like someone going to the dead guy. But I guess since you want to play the game where I was OBVIOUSLY role fishing, I welcome your vote.

Next you say we should question him only to see if he was a witness to something, and that you don't want to pressure anything about his role if he doesn't know something valuable to catch scum, because you are not rolefishing.

Cause in my eyes, the only place I saw to go was to question nag, and sure nothing happened to edoc, but IMO its better to ask someone who is questionable then target a random person.

Now you say it's "Questionable" for nag to target edoc, and that we should find out about his role instead of targeting someone random. So which is it, do you want to make nag claim, or not?

[new guy1]

Wow, I gotta lay off the medicine. I dont want to force him to claim, but I want to know if he has any valuble information. I dont want his role, unless he has information we can use to shape a case for today. When I first stated I thought we should question edocsil, it was my intent to get information, and not pressure him into a claim, and I guess I have to admit Im not one that deals with pressure greatly, especially when I am *cough* not paying attention (refer to first sentence), and so I guess that story decided to change periodically, and I did not realize it till you layed it out for me. So I guess I will break down the posts.
1st. I wanted to question him to see if he had information, but it did not come across that way. My bad on miscommunication.
2nd. Ditto there, and it came across correctly that time.
3rd. He was questionable. Asking a random person/waiting for a case to fall into our hands (much like this one) is most likely a waste of time. Im sure the mafia is not just all goons, and so they have other actions, therefore, nag is questionable, right?

So I guess after breaking that down (though Im not going to change what I said up top) I didnt change my story that much, it was just the way I put it and the way it came across to different people. I guess someone might have gotten it, but I guess since nobody has stepped forward to say so that they either havent read through it or they ignored it or whatever, but I tried to get the same point across, I just wasnt *cough* paying much attention.

[spiesr]

Now Mr. S claiming was just unreasonable in my opinion. If the bomb is not counterclaimed, the bomb can teach the hammerer a valuable lesson in not being silly. Busdriver is a make or break situation role in that they can indirectly kill mafia by their own foolishness of choosing an obvious target, and that should not be outed to prevent an idiot from blowing himself up. No mafia is stupid enough to dispute a bomb claim, and any town to go in before time for a counterclaim is given is asking to get blown to bits.

All in all, I Vote Spiesr for even suggesting the idea of the busdriver outing. Spiesr is good enough to know that the busdriver can finish a game just by having the brains to pick out the mafia (go back to my first game, FF7 for a prime example of me being the SK and dying to my own blade due to a smart move by the mafia bus driver).

So, are you saying that you would rather have us lynch the bomb and lose a townie to the explosion, possibly have crazy lynched over the fiasco, and then have at least half the town think Squirrel is a scum busdriver instead of Squirrel claim today? Am I sorry, but I simply can't see how that would be the better option.

oh well, use me as you like from now on to wifom mafia every night squirrel. I'm a bit worried that for now, we didn't have time for a lynch on day 1, lost a doc at night and now we have a bomb, a busdriver, a tracker + nag having a night role out there.
I quite feel like asking nag a bit more about this, but we just uncovered way too many prs. only thing I know is that this is advancing fast, not necesairly in the way i would like.

In this game, which is at least low-vanilla then having it exposed that nagerous had a night action isn't really a big deal at all. Simply because most of the town probably has an action of some sort.

And if the scum wanna target me, they're gonna have to play the WIFOM game. I can still bus myself with betiko if I feel threatened.

Amusingly enough, this WIFOM game also works if betiko is scum.

k then... so for now we can clear:
me
Mr. S
Bekito

Technically we can't label betiko as "clear" at this point. The evidence that could a fixed him as scum is non-existent, but that just puts him back in the "unconfirmed claim" category.

Going by the logic that the town is intelligent enough not to need a bus driver to save the un-counter-claimed bomb, yes. Though its a low blow to insult intelligence levels, I have just never seen a person claim a bomb and not be it except for 1 occasion and they died because the real bomb countered it. So I can say very willingly that had that happened, I would have taken Mr. S's side on his reasoning had it been something similar to what I said.

Your assessment that a "smart" town would never lynch an uncounter-claimed bomb (even when we had circumstantial evidence pointing to him not being a bomb!!!) has unfortunate implications. Basically if what you say is true then it is the perfect fake-claim because a "smart" town wouldn't lynch a claim barring some very solid proof.

[new guy1]

I think what ghost meant by smart town would not lynch an uncountered bomb unless there was solid evidence, like he went somewhere, but Im not here to interpret, just to put some sense into the other side... maybe that is interpreting, but those are my thoughts .

[strike wolf]

Does claiming that he went somewhere with a bomb role (meaning he lied about his claim) not count as solid evidence? I think we had sufficient reason to go after betiko.

[new guy1]

I got that part, but I will let ghostly defend himself, as I dont get tied up with other people's cases until Im ready to vote them or I feel strongly that the case is a bad one, but you know, I dont have to say that, you could have infered it from my sarcasm and silence .

[crazymilkshake5]

Does claiming that he went somewhere with a bomb role (meaning he lied about his claim) not count as solid evidence? I think we had sufficient reason to go after betiko.

Mr. S confirmed that he did bus bekito and nag.

so, no. we dont.

Y U SO EAGER?!?!

[new guy1]

Does claiming that he went somewhere with a bomb role (meaning he lied about his claim) not count as solid evidence? I think we had sufficient reason to go after betiko.

Mr. S confirmed that he did bus bekito and nag.

so, no. we dont.

Y U SO EAGER?!?!

I think he used past tense.

Y U SO EAGER?!?!

[strike wolf]

Does claiming that he went somewhere with a bomb role (meaning he lied about his claim) not count as solid evidence? I think we had sufficient reason to go after betiko.

Mr. S confirmed that he did bus bekito and nag.

so, no. we dont.

Y U SO EAGER?!?!

Look at context Crazy (past tense with had and other previous posts about the current discussion on Ghostly). The context is if Mr. S hadn't confirmed anything and stayed silent. I'm questioning Ghostly if that did not count as good reason to lynch.

[ghostly447]

Now Mr. S claiming was just unreasonable in my opinion. If the bomb is not counterclaimed, the bomb can teach the hammerer a valuable lesson in not being silly. Busdriver is a make or break situation role in that they can indirectly kill mafia by their own foolishness of choosing an obvious target, and that should not be outed to prevent an idiot from blowing himself up. No mafia is stupid enough to dispute a bomb claim, and any town to go in before time for a counterclaim is given is asking to get blown to bits.

All in all, I Vote Spiesr for even suggesting the idea of the busdriver outing. Spiesr is good enough to know that the busdriver can finish a game just by having the brains to pick out the mafia (go back to my first game, FF7 for a prime example of me being the SK and dying to my own blade due to a smart move by the mafia bus driver).

So, are you saying that you would rather have us lynch the bomb and lose a townie to the explosion, possibly have crazy lynched over the fiasco, and then have at least half the town think Squirrel is a scum busdriver instead of Squirrel claim today? Am I sorry, but I simply can't see how that would be the better option.

oh well, use me as you like from now on to wifom mafia every night squirrel. I'm a bit worried that for now, we didn't have time for a lynch on day 1, lost a doc at night and now we have a bomb, a busdriver, a tracker + nag having a night role out there.
I quite feel like asking nag a bit more about this, but we just uncovered way too many prs. only thing I know is that this is advancing fast, not necesairly in the way i would like.

In this game, which is at least low-vanilla then having it exposed that nagerous had a night action isn't really a big deal at all. Simply because most of the town probably has an action of some sort.

And if the scum wanna target me, they're gonna have to play the WIFOM game. I can still bus myself with betiko if I feel threatened.

Amusingly enough, this WIFOM game also works if betiko is scum.

k then... so for now we can clear:
me
Mr. S
Bekito

Technically we can't label betiko as "clear" at this point. The evidence that could a fixed him as scum is non-existent, but that just puts him back in the "unconfirmed claim" category.

Going by the logic that the town is intelligent enough not to need a bus driver to save the un-counter-claimed bomb, yes. Though its a low blow to insult intelligence levels, I have just never seen a person claim a bomb and not be it except for 1 occasion and they died because the real bomb countered it. So I can say very willingly that had that happened, I would have taken Mr. S's side on his reasoning had it been something similar to what I said.

Your assessment that a "smart" town would never lynch an uncounter-claimed bomb (even when we had circumstantial evidence pointing to him not being a bomb!!!) has unfortunate implications. Basically if what you say is true then it is the perfect fake-claim because a "smart" town wouldn't lynch a claim barring some very solid proof.

IDK, are you sorry? Is this a potential new case??? I think this is the strongest lead today!!!
Sorry, had to have a little fun with that. But seriously, I love words being put into my mouth. What I said was that I dont think that a decent town audience would lynch a claimed bomb, uncounterclaimed as well. Why would they? Questionable claims are left all the time. If he were left not lynched then wouldnt it be clear that his case could still be reviewed? Uh huh. And like I said, by my logic it fits in my head. If it doesnt fit in yours, then thats okay. I dont disregard your opinion, I just felt that it was silly for him to come out and make a third claim for the day as a strong role for a seemingly weak role with a slight risk that some (hate to say it) idiot would come along and disregard Betiko's unclaimed bomb claim.

[ghostly447]

Does claiming that he went somewhere with a bomb role (meaning he lied about his claim) not count as solid evidence? I think we had sufficient reason to go after betiko.

Yeah. Its time for me to get my head out of the clouds. Sorry for my stupidity, Im going to be honest and say I completely forgot that CMS said Betiko went somewhere last night. Dunce hat on my head for the day por favor.

[betiko]

Consider me traditional, but stupid is what stupid does. Let me explain.

Betiko. No offense, but what the hell? No mafia in their right mind would kill the number one lynch worthy target in N1 after D1 for 2 reasons, and all of you knuckle heads should know them:

1. No mafia is stupid enough to risk being tracked
2. No mafia is stupid enough to risk not getting an easy lynch the day after.

So that whole bs of not claiming was in a way not necessary. Sorry for forcing your claim, but I doubt you would have been killed anyways. Now we have a townie that is safe, and that is good (because no mafia is stupid enough to risk that your actually a bomb).

Claiming tracker just came out of the mess up. CMS did what was smart and came out with the claim. Unfortunately, it was in the wrong this time, nothing you could do there.

Now Mr. S claiming was just unreasonable in my opinion. If the bomb is not counterclaimed, the bomb can teach the hammerer a valuable lesson in not being silly. Busdriver is a make or break situation role in that they can indirectly kill mafia by their own foolishness of choosing an obvious target, and that should not be outed to prevent an idiot from blowing himself up. No mafia is stupid enough to dispute a bomb claim, and any town to go in before time for a counterclaim is given is asking to get blown to bits.

All in all, I Vote Spiesr for even suggesting the idea of the busdriver outing. Spiesr is good enough to know that the busdriver can finish a game just by having the brains to pick out the mafia (go back to my first game, FF7 for a prime example of me being the SK and dying to my own blade due to a smart move by the mafia bus driver).

By this logic, I also FOS /. My point in explaining absolutely every detail as to who is stupid enough to fall for something, etc, is that if Mr. S had to claim later in the game, I would fully understand if this was the logic used to excuse himself. Why risk a role that can turn a mafia kill into a mafia death over an un-counterclaimed bomb, and a dumb townie. Im sure we had VT's that if they were so confident Betiko was lying would have stepped up and taken to being blown to bits. Point is, I wouldnt have claimed because we already had a tracker claimed, now there are just 2 roles exposed. Mafia will not attack the bomb, and that is obvious (hell they left him here to allow a claim, why the hell would they doubt the claim?).

So thats my scum list so far. Spiesr and /. Spiesr for role fishing, / for even thinking NG1's logic was faulty. IMO, its clear as day why he said what he said.

sorry but what the hell what? I should've claimed my role with the character name on day 1? as I said, i was pretty afraid of a mafia busdriver. not that i have any proof about such role not existing, but think it's a bit unlikely. Also I was pretty sure that claiming my role no one would believe me, any word I said was just analyzed by people self convinced and who would try to extrapolate whatever. Safari ended up being one of them and who voted for me acusing me of doing something actually edocsil did.. And I think that bane being uncounter claimed is much more meaningfull than bomb being uncounterclaimed as a bomb is not a very usual role; bane being a character quite unlikely not to be in the game.
other than this, yes, I agree about your case and I was not very happy to see that spiesr, / and strike made squirrel claim.
I want to hear more from edocsil and nagerous about last night.

fastposted

what the hell are you saying guys? I went freakin nowhere! i was bussed. any smart ass should either take my avatar bet or hammer, let's see if there is that much talking.

[new guy1]

Betiko, ghost is using sarcasm. He is making fun of the situation. Re-read all his posts as if he was laughing the whole time he wrote it. Now you get it?

[ghostly447]

Guys, Im off to bed. I dont know if I have not answered any questions, etc. But I am tired and believe it can wait till tomorrow. Sorry if I have missed any questions, and once again sorry for the rusty dunce work. Im going to sit back and see if pressure is applied anywhere (even if it be on me) and just see if anyone can get a decent case since I have messed up twice and (thankfully) been stopped by a claim, and some people pointing out my mistake before a lynch.

Night!